Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Diddy Kong]

Paper Mario would be a great addition I think. He and Toad are imo the only worthy choices for a new Mario character.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I for the life of me can't see the hype about Paper Mario, let alone Dr. Mario. I've even seen some requests for Metal Mario to make his entry since Smash 64. I mean people talk about how Nintendo has backlogs and backlogs of franchises under their belt; But when it comes to making a Nintendo all-star party-fighting game roster, people want 3 to 4 variations of the SAME. EXACT. CHARACTER...

That's like people rallying behind Shiny Pikachu, Classic Fat Pikachu, Shadow Pikachu (That reminds me, people want Shadow Mario too. Don't they? That's now 5 different Marios if you count that.) and Sparky the Pikachu.

This sounds like Good and Evil Cole from PSABR all over again.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I for the life of me can't see the hype about Paper Mario, let alone Dr. Mario. I've even seen some requests for Metal Mario to make his entry since Smash 64. I mean people talk about how Nintendo has backlogs and backlogs of franchises under their belt; But when it comes to making a Nintendo all-star party-fighting game roster, people want 3 to 4 variations of the SAME. EXACT. CHARACTER...

That's like people rallying behind Shiny Pikachu, Classic Fat Pikachu, Shadow Pikachu (That reminds me, people want Shadow Mario too. Don't they? That's now 5 different Marios if you count that.) and Sparky the Pikachu.

So you're saying if we support any Mario clone, we support all the Mario clones?

If any of the Mario copies got in, I would want it to be Doc, but I would be fine with him as an alternate moveset for Mario.

I haven't seen ANY requests for Metal Mario to become a character. Also, most people that want Shadow Mario want him as a transformation for Bowser Jr., and many BJ fans don't wans Shadow Mario at all.

This sounds like Good and Evil Cole from PSABR all over again.

You missed the part where the two Coles are completely different from each other in terms of moveset.

 

[TheCreator]

@creator, I really doubt a side yoshi character will ever be as popular as sonic

God no, that'd never happen. I don't think that the baby yoshis will even be looked at lol I was addressing that comment separately.
Also. They'd have to ignore half of all Paper Mario's games to make him a clone.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I for the life of me can't see the hype about Paper Mario, let alone Dr. Mario. I've even seen some requests for Metal Mario to make his entry since Smash 64. I mean people talk about how Nintendo has backlogs and backlogs of franchises under their belt; But when it comes to making a Nintendo all-star party-fighting game roster, people want 3 to 4 variations of the SAME. EXACT. CHARACTER...

That's like people rallying behind Shiny Pikachu, Classic Fat Pikachu, Shadow Pikachu (That reminds me, people want Shadow Mario too. Don't they? That's now 5 different Marios if you count that.) and Sparky the Pikachu.

This sounds like Good and Evil Cole from PSABR all over again.

Well, did you ever play any Paper Mario games then?

Cause if you did, you'd know just how unique Paper Mario could be.

Look I'm against Dr.Mario and the like to. But seeing as Toon Link most likely will return, I see no reason to have Paper Mario either. Especially since he can be more than unique from Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

Especially since he can be more than unique from Mario.

Which is a horribly flawed argument, as others such as Dr. Mario and Metal Mario (who is actually a different character altogether now these days...) can ALSO be made unique from Mario, and Paper Mario can just as easily be another clone.

To be in support of one while against another for the sole reason of "he can be unique" is incredibly biased to the point that you should just outright say "I love Paper Mario and that's why I want him in", which is much more accurate.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No. Paper Mario can't be a clone. Next arguement.

 

[TheCreator]

No, it's not a bad argument because Paper Mario is OBVIOUSLY different. Dr. Mario and Metal Mario would take some imagination to make distinctly different. But paper mario, in his own series, is nothing like mario besides for his jumping.

 

[FlareHabanero]

No. Paper Mario can't be a clone. Next arguement.

Yes he can, there is absolutely nothing that says he can't be a clone. Granted theoretically he shouldn't be a clone, but the possibility is still always there; especially for a character that's another variant of Mario.

 

[TheCreator]

It would require them to ignore his hammer, which is a staple in his games.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dr.Mario with the doctor tools was really just gasping at straws. He never used stuff like that, and he even should be happy he had one unique move from Mario, the pills.

Paper Mario as a whole has just so many abilities never used by Mario, it's just crazy to assume he'd be a Mario clone. What is he gonna do? Throw Paper Fire Balls? I just can't imagine Paper Mario being a Mario clone in any kind of way without it looking EXTREMELY awkward.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You know, the argument of a character not being able to become a clone sounds awfully familiar. Like a certain blue fox with a stick with a rabid fanbase full of baboons.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know, the argument of a character not being able to become a clone sounds awfully familiar. Like a certain blue fox with a stick with a rabid fanbase full of baboons.

Then again, where Falco and Wolf ever even playable outside of Assault's multiplayer and Command? To those character it even makes a slight sence to have them being 'half clones'.

Not sure if you can even compare Paper Mario to Krystal. Paper Mario has so much potential. You'd only deny it if you never played the games.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Not sure if you can even compare Paper Mario to Krystal. Paper Mario has so much potential. You'd only deny it if you never played the games.

He has potential to be unique. So did Ganondorf. Heck, so did basically every "clone" besides Pichu and Doc.

 

[TheCreator]

Yeah but to have paper Mario without his hammer would not only be lazy. It'd make things awkward like diddy said.

 

[Diddy Kong]

He has potential to be unique. So did Ganondorf. Heck, so did basically every "clone" besides Pichu and Doc.

Ganondorf = the shame of the Smash community.
Roy : Has potential to be unique, but his Smash appearance came before his FE appearance. Also, most likely he was added late.
Falco : Check his Brawl moveset. Seen it? Ok, that's how he should fight.
Wolf : Perfectly fine as he is.
Lucas : y use PK fire & thunder lol u silly boi?
Toon Link: Fine as he is. But still has potential to be more unique.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Yeah but to have paper Mario without his hammer would not only be lazy. It'd make things awkward like diddy said.

Okay, so that's one move. If it's a special move, I could see it being a <>B. Which leaves 3 specials. People have been called clones over less.

@Diddy:

My point was that nobody who wanted Ganondorf was probably expecting him to be a clone of Falcon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Paper Mario without a Paper Mario-inspired moveset =

 

[TheCreator]

Up B would be obvious in his paper airplane ability.
Never mind you got it lol

 

[Diddy Kong]

I know. Fixed it now.

Paper Air Plane Up B is a given yeah. As well as possibly Multi Bouncing with Down B? Spring Jump even maybe? Quake Hammer?

Too much potential.

 

[Deleted member]

No. Paper Mario can't be a clone. Next arguement.

Can Paper Mario shoot fireballs? Yes.
Can Paper Mario reflect things with a Cape? Not a Cape persay, but if Dr. Mario can be given a "Super Sheet" as an asspull, then Paper Mario can be given something equal such as a "Sticker Sheet".
Can Paper Mario jump? ....yes. Can he punch? ....yes. So he can Jump Punch, can't he?
Can Paper Mario spin in a tornado? I don't see how he can't.
Alternatively, can he use F.L.U.D.D.? Well, given the randomness of what Sticker Star provided, such as a giant fan or a goat, I don't see how using a "Paper F.L.U.D.D." would be any more ridiculous. Aside from that, all F.L.U.D.D. does in Brawl is push people away, right? Paper Mario could just summon Flurrie for that very same action.

Next argument.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Too much potential.

There's potential for him to be unique. There's also potential for him fo be a clone.

I don't see why his ^B couldn't be a variation of the SJP. vB could be that Spin-hammer thing he does in TTYD, which could become a Tornado variant. <>B Hammer could be something of a cape clone(by being a projectile reflector). And of course, nB would still be fireball.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Can Paper Mario shoot fireballs? Yes.
Can Paper Mario reflect things with a Cape? Not a Cape persay, but if Dr. Mario can be given a "Super Sheet" as an asspull, then Paper Mario can be given something equal such as a "Sticker Sheet".
Can Paper Mario jump? ....yes. Can he punch? ....yes. So he can Jump Punch, can't he?
Can Paper Mario spin in a tornado? I don't see how he can't.
Alternatively, can he use F.L.U.D.D.? Well, given the randomness of what Sticker Star provided, such as a giant fan or a goat, I don't see how using a "Paper F.L.U.D.D." would be any more ridiculous. Aside from that, all F.L.U.D.D. does in Brawl is push people away, right? Paper Mario could just summon Flurrie for that very same action.

Next argument.

Why even include him if he isn't inspired on his own games?

Next argument.

 

[TheCreator]

Can Paper Mario shoot fireballs? Yes.
Can Paper Mario reflect things with a Cape? Not a Cape persay, but if Dr. Mario can be given a "Super Sheet" as an asspull, then Paper Mario can be given something equal such as a "Sticker Sheet".
Can Paper Mario jump? ....yes. Can he punch? ....yes. So he can Jump Punch, can't he?
Can Paper Mario spin in a tornado? I don't see how he can't.
Alternatively, can he use F.L.U.D.D.? Well, given the randomness of what Sticker Star provided, such as a giant fan or a goat, I don't see how using a "Paper F.L.U.D.D." would be any more ridiculous. Aside from that, all F.L.U.D.D. does in Brawl is push people away, right? Paper Mario could just summon Flurrie for that very same action.

Next argument.

You forget the fact that Sakurai doesn't have down syndrome.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You forget the fact that Sakurai doesn't have down syndrome.

[laughs]

10 laughs

 

[Deleted member]

Dr.Mario with the doctor tools was really just gasping at straws. He never used stuff like that, and he even should be happy he had one unique move from Mario, the pills.

Captain Falcon with a Rider Punch and Rider Kick was really just grasping at straws. He never used stuff like that and even should be happy he was in the game to begin with.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You forget the fact that Sakurai doesn't have down syndrome.

What does that have to do with anything?

We're not arguing that PM should or will become a clone. Just that people who say that there's no chance fro him to be a clone are kidding themselves.

 

[TheCreator]

That has to do with everything. There's no way he would TRY to make Paper Mario a clone, which is what he'd have to do for him to end up as one.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Captain Falcon with a Rider Punch and Rider Kick was really just grasping at straws. He never used stuff like that and even should be happy he was in the game to begin with.

Well, actually... Yes.

He's a classic now though, and Falcon Punch has become larger than life. He's shouldn't really be compared with the rest.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That has to do with everything. There's no way he would TRY to make Paper Mario a clone, which is what he'd have to do for him to end up as one.

Still not sure what Down Syndrome has to do with that.

Also, you could say he had to TRY to make Ganondorf a clone.

 

[Deleted member]

You forget the fact that Sakurai doesn't have down syndrome.

Seriously, your arguments have all been horrible to this point.

Diddy: "Paper can't be clone because he's paper"
Me: "Yes he can because he can still pull off the same things Mario can"
You: "SAKURAI HAS NO DOWN SYNDROME HURR DURR"

Why even include him if he isn't inspired on his own games?

Next argument.

At this point, it became less of an argument of logic and more of bias.
The argument was that "Paper Mario can't be a clone", to which he can. While he shouldn't, he still can.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think Diddy Kong needs to go back to grade school if he cannot tell the difference between shouldn't and couldn't.

 

[TheCreator]

You could say that, but that'd be stupid. Because ganondorf being a clone was just laziness.
And I understand that the character has potential to be a clone. My argument is he WON'T.

 

[Deleted member]

That is not the argument, though.
The argument is ABOUT the potential to be a clone. So really, learn what the argument is before you join in, and learn what Down Syndrome is, as you CLEARLY have no idea about it to the point you try to use it foolishly in an argument.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

And I understand that the character has potential to be a clone. My argument is he WON'T.

I think you mean "shouldn't."

 

[BKupa666]

It would make more sense to say, "Paper Mario wouldn't be a clone, because if Sakurai wanted a Mario clone, he already has one, and one that was planned for Brawl no less."

Unless we get two Mario clones, of course.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Unless we get two Mario clones, of course.

Well, technically, Luigi is a "clone." A very unique clone, but still a clone.

An I'd like to point out that 3 characters with variations of the same moveset isn't that bad. SSF4:AE has 8 characters with variations on the shotoclone moveset.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Well, did you ever play any Paper Mario games then?

Cause if you did, you'd know just how unique Paper Mario could be.

Look I'm against Dr.Mario and the like to. But seeing as Toon Link most likely will return, I see no reason to have Paper Mario either. Especially since he can be more than unique from Mario.

I love Paper Mario! Not a fan of Super Sticker Star though. I like Thousand-Year Door, Paper Mario 64, Sticker Star and Super Paper Mario in that order. I'm sure Paper Mario can be unique, Heck i'm pretty sure Paper Peach and Mr. L can be aswell, but I really see no point in having the same character twice. I would rather them take the same approach they did with Wario Land Wario and Warioware Wario and just gave Wario a blend of all of his games.

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So you're saying if we support any Mario clone, we support all the Mario clones?

I never said "if 1 person wants 1 clone they want all clones." I SAID I can't see why people want multiple variations of the same character at all.

If any of the Mario copies got in, I would want it to be Doc, but I would be fine with him as an alternate moveset for Mario.

I'm not going to knock your idea, Your entitled to your opinion. But personally I would rather just have Doc an alternate costume if i could help it.

I haven't seen ANY requests for Metal Mario to become a character. Also, most people that want Shadow Mario want him as a transformation for Bowser Jr., and many BJ fans don't wans Shadow Mario at all.

I've seen support for all 4 or 5 Marios across gaming websites (e.g IGN, Gametrailers...), Youtube, and smash sites like allisbrawl and smashboards. and like i said in parentheses "If you count Shadow Mario as a clone." If you don't count him as one there isn't no need to stress about it.

You missed the part where the two Coles are completely different from each other in terms of moveset.

This isn't really a matter of play-style difference. This is a matter of character representation.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You know, this whole clone thing is pretty skewed in general. If it wasn't for Melee going for those lazy character rehashes, we wouldn't be here complaining about what is and isn't a clone.

By the way, Wolf and Lucas are not clones.

 

[TheCreator]

A very unique clone? Lol
Also, I was saying down syndrome as its said in a joking way. As if to mean sakurai isn't stupid. You bunch of damn literalists lol and no. The fact that paper mario "shouldn't" be a clone is obvious. So is the fact that he could. What I'm saying is. Sakurai isn't stupid. So he won't take a character like paper mario. That is so unique from his own series. And make him a damn clone by ignoring half of his abilities.