Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Robert of Normandy]

....But I can only see this working with ONE pokemon. Keeping track of THREE pokemon, and evolving them, is too much to handle in short, 3-stock matches. (Or the Sakurai favorite, 2-minute matches).

It'd be even worse in 1-stock matches. And sudden death matches.

 

[ChronoBound]

I don't think leaks are going to happen this time for Smash 4. Nintendo already had in place multiple measures for Brawl to ensure leaks did not happen (and they almost did not). Leaks only happened for Smash 4 because Westerners had their hands on the game. By comparison, the Japanese knew nothing about the leaked roster despite the game being released there first.

I have some inside information on what happened with the Brawl leaks and how they tie into why leaks probably won't happen this time, but I will share the information around E3.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What if the Pokemon started out in their first evolutionary state, and they all grow from there?

....But I can only see this working with ONE pokemon. Keeping track of THREE pokemon, and evolving them, is too much to handle in short, 3-stock matches. (Or the Sakurai favorite, 2-minute matches).

Been spreading this idea around for a while. Good to see someone else think of it.

This wouldn't be for just one Pokemon though. I'd picture it'd work for all evolution lines of the starters from the first generation. But you could pick them on the Character Select Screen like selecting which Pokemon you'd wanna start with, or picking Zelda / Sheik. Except this time you choose Grass, Fire or Water as your theme / starter.

And even in Time matches it could work, as you'd evolve after taking a stock or 2 or something. No reason for it not to work like that in Time. It's really the time thing, and could work very well.

This would make all Pokemon from the Trainer worthy of being called their own character, and even adds to their uniqueness. If you think about it, not much has to be done for Ivysaur to behave as Bulbasaur or Venusaur. So that's an easy one. Next, Charizard is already pretty ground-based, and not too aerial based, so they could revamp Zard himself, and base his pre-evos on the more ground-based style, minus wing attacks ofcoarse. Squirtle could be made a bit more defence-orrientated by making his Widraw an actual defensive move, that'd block damage, a little (like, 15% super armor) so evolving up to the uber tank Blastoise wouldn't look all that weird.

Of coarse a few moves could be changed up upon evolution as well, or the special and normal moves simply would get stronger with only a few changes at the final forms?

For example, Charmander and Charmeleon shoot Ember for B, and recovery is Fire Spin (basically Zard's Up B) while Charizard actually shoots Flamethrower, and uses Fly as Up B (which'd perhaps work more like Pit's Up B this time and allow his to breath fire when flying).

Blastoise's difference with Squirtle and Wartortle is of coarse the ability to shoot out of his pumps, so perhaps Squirtle would start with Water Gun as an attack, then Wartortle uses Bubble Beam, and Blastoise Hyrdo Pump.

Hyrdo Pump would be a natural counter to Charizard's aerial approach, as it'd combine the effect of Water Gun (pushing away) and his Pokeball attacks in Melee and 64. Keeping Zard grounded. Meanwhile, Blastoise has poorer range on his regular attacks, which'd make him a natural prey for Venusaur's long grabs and Vine Whip / Razor Leaf combos. Venusaur's Down B should also be somewhat like his Earthquake attack from Melee, so that Charizard again has the advantage when approaching from the air.

Combine this also with the inbuild elemental system of Brawl's Pokemon Trainer and I think this'd be the best revamp possible for a character. Better yet, this would only be one character on the select screen, and would be one of the more unique ways to add in clones on a practical way.

Also like the prospect of doing this with Pichu / Pikachu / Raichu, but that could be overkill to have so many Pokemon around. Yet... It'd be such an awesome reference to Yellow, the 2nd gen, and possible Pikachu's N64 Smash moveset through Raichu. And of coarse Pikachu would sitll be selectable himself.

Just giving voice to my ideas again. Since you brought it up and all.

As for Sudden Death: You'll control the character you last used in battle. 1 stock matches: start with the second evolution to balance everything out better. Or start with the last, choice of how balanced everything is.

 

[~automatic]

You idea manages too many characters to be fully practical and well balanced.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why? It's not like you could switch between Bulbasaur, Charizard and Blastoise or something. You select one from the evolution line, and only that one evolves. No Down B switch mechanics, oh, and no stamina.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The evolution mechanic sounds extremely inconvenient.

[/topic]

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think it's much more convenient than the current Pokemon Trainer mechanic, but to each their choice.

JUST WANNA SEE CHARIZARD VS BLASTOISE DAMMIT!

 

[TheCreator]

I wouldn't enjoy using a character that got progressively better. Just me

 

[MagnesD3]

I would personally like to see a mechanic with the pokemon trainer that would allow them when switch out a pokemon manually to rest them for that pokemon to gradually lose the damage on him up to 10-30 depending on how long they are held back, (note this would only work on a manual pokemon pullback.) Id also like to see a better system in place of selecting your next pokemon when say your squirtle loses a life to go straight to charizard or ivysaur instead of being forced to ivysaur.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wouldn't enjoy using a character that got progressively better. Just me

I don't main Lucario either. But to each their own style right?

 

[Dark Phazon]

(yo diddy waz up homie)

Soo...did i miss anything important when i was gone? news anything?

 

[Moon Monkey]

"Lets make Lucario stronger as his percent gets higher"
That sounds like a good idea

Correct me if i'm wrong, but in Melee wasn't Mewtwo's F+air buffed once he/she/it fully charges shadowball!?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm good man. Up late as usual you know, talking about Pokemon and ****. You?

Nah man you didn't missed anything yet. Speaking of rumors which we hope would be true, except for the evolution part on Ridley. When offered an alternative to awesome evolutions, people *****. So yeah, that's about it.

@Moon Monkey: No, but damn would that be an awesome feature for Mewtwo. His Smashes should become stronger to when having his Shadow Ball charged. It would be a nice addtional buff to Mewtwo. Maybe make it add in his range as well? Potential plenty! Or a move similar to Lucas' Offense Up in Project M as stated before, would also be really awesome.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I'm good man. Up late as usual you know, talking about Pokemon and ****. You?

Nah man you didn't missed anything yet. Speaking of rumors which we hope would be true, except for the evolution part on Ridley. When offered an alternative to awesome evolutions, people *****. So yeah, that's about it.

Ahhh..i see..has you got xbox360?

 

[Diddy Kong]

No man just a Wii with crappy Wifi connection. My lil bro got a PS3 though, but he's in his room sleeping.

Funny ****, as he's totally in games like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed (which is quite awesome btw) and Battlefield while I'll be here chilling my playing my Donkey Kong Country.

 

[Dark Phazon]

No man just a Wii with crappy Wifi connection. My lil bro got a PS3 though, but he's in his room sleeping.

Funny ****, as he's totally in games like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed (which is quite awesome btw) and Battlefield while I'll be here chilling my playing my Donkey Kong Country.

Ahh..i see
Staying on these forums with all the Specualtion after speculation..(-_-) and all this Logical Revelancy crap brings me nothing but crazy hype and a huge headache..and specualtion..its WAYYYY to early even for all this.. i cant take it atm.its pointless..

finished Far Cry 3 i have gone back to Gears of War 3 (-_-) plus my life just got a little bit less crap and boring.

Im gone i be back when theres some ''Official'' News and if its big enough to talk about thats when the real specualtion will happen when we gotta table to sit at..

I be checking here and there though.

Peace out Diddy and all you guys.

Ima come back when there some ''Official'' News..

 

[Moon Monkey]

I'm good man. Up late as usual you know, talking about Pokemon and ****. You?

Nah man you didn't missed anything yet. Speaking of rumors which we hope would be true, except for the evolution part on Ridley. When offered an alternative to awesome evolutions, people *****. So yeah, that's about it.

@Moon Monkey: No, but damn would that be an awesome feature for Mewtwo. His Smashes should become stronger to when having his Shadow Ball charged. It would be a nice addtional buff to Mewtwo. Maybe make it add in his range as well? Potential plenty! Or a move similar to Lucas' Offense Up in Project M as stated before, would also be really awesome.

I always thought that was the reason why his F+air striking hand was engulfed in the shadow energy:[COLLAPSE="Reference Pic"]

[/COLLAPSE]
Now i really hope they don't miss out on that opportunity.

I think that is a really sick concept especially on high level play. Opponents would be trying to put pressure on the Mewtwo before it/she/he charges up the shadow-ball. It would actually make the player earn his attack buff; rather than just getting it as he gets higher in percent.

 

[TheCreator]

Speaking of pokemon. My oppinions are as follows;
Pikachu's staying obviously.
Pokemon Trainer too, just like he was. I believe they've found a new staple.
Jigglypuff has outdone her stay. Time to clock out. She's not only lost popularity since she was added, but has actually developed an anti-fanbase. Im a part of it.
Mewtwo returns, he is simply so popular. Sakurai probably didn't expect the riots that started when he was taken out.
Lucario stays. He's given a new moveset though, with the return of mewtwo and all.

Possible newcomers:
Plusle & Minun....eh. Depends. I think if he wanted to add a pikachu clone this time around, which he has the last two times, it'd be plusle and minun. I say about 30%
Zoroark. 5%. Im pretty sure missed the boat. He probably only would have gotten in in the first place if the pokemon company pretty much demands it like they did with lucario, and like they will with their next big investment showcase pokemon. Which brings me to:
A 6th gen rep seems pretty shoe in if you ask me. 90% Given we get an obvious one. Some cool looking psuedo legendary pokemon that was in a movie or frequent in the anime will have a big fan base and get in. Unless this gen doesn't get one, which might actually happen being that this gen is rumored to have a low amount of pokemon.
A rival trainer would be what we got in that scenario, having the opposites to what red has but only in 6th gen pokemon. 90% saying we don't get a showcase pokemon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lucario has a fine moveset as it is, just the Auro gimmick is really weird. And to me really discouraging in getting to know the character well. If he'd just play as if he'd be around 70~80% he'd be fine. Maybe make a few moves strong than that though so he can kill better. Make his Down B something that becomes stronger with how much damage he takes, like Reversal for example.

 

[TheCreator]

Lucario has a fine moveset as it is, just the Auro gimmick is really weird. And to me really discouraging in getting to know the character well. If he'd just play as if he'd be around 70~80% he'd be fine. Maybe make a few moves strong than that though so he can kill better. Make his Down B something that becomes stronger with how much damage he takes, like Reversal for example.

His moveset will have to change if mewtwo comes back or they're just plum lazy.
Implying he stays

 

[Diddy Kong]

Maybe make Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere a bit different from each other, but nobody complained about Shadow Ball being so similar to Samus' Charge Shot in Melee. So really, maybe change Lucario's Forward Smash and everything is fine.

 

[TheCreator]

Yeah but two pokemon with the same 'charge up a ball and shoot it' nuetral b?

 

[Big-Cat]

I wouldn't enjoy using a character that got progressively better. Just me

How about that character be you?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Yeah but two pokemon with the same 'charge up a ball and shoot it' nuetral b?

So because the two are Pokemon, that makes it different from Samus having the same move?

 

[TheCreator]

So because the two are Pokemon, that makes it different from Samus having the same move?

No it doesn't, I had that in mind too. That would make 3 characters on the roster with that move, and 2 of which would be pokemon. Besides, lucario is a fighting type. Let him do more punches and kicks.

 

[Deleted member]

Aura Sphere is kind of his thing.
While it's not a signature move persay, it's sort of tied to him like Shadow Ball is to Mewtwo or Sing is to Jigglypuff.

You can't really get rid of it.

EDIT: As for an evolution gimmick, give it to someone else. Ridley should stay in his adult stage, none of the already playable Pokemon need it, and adding a Pokemon for the sake of giving it an evolution is adding way too many Pokemon characters anyway.
Find someone else that it would make sense for. Like Agumon.

 

[ChaosSoul]

Indeed. Someone trying to come off as a really tough guy on the internet. Where have I seen this before?!

Dont belive me fine I dont raly care anyway as long as I know what happens is all that really matters who cares if pepole think im lyin i know im not thats all that makters in life

 

[~automatic]

Mewtwo

While Mewtwo and clones are still hot on the table, how do you speculators feel about mash-up characters like Lucas?

If you don't know what I mean, Lucas has throws and normals that are practically Mewtwo's and got variations of Ness' specials. Lucas was made from what were two character's movesets.

What characters would you feel could have reworked combinations of throws, normals and specials?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Shadow Ball still goes on this crazy arc when shot off though. Aura Sphere when fully charged does not, and neither does Samus' blast. Also, they could revamp Samus' Charge Shot to something more Metroid-like, and recolor Aura Sphere to light blue, and it's all good. Hopefully Mewtwo's blast would be the strongest though.

 

[ChaosSoul]

Well me on a personal lvl i think that mario and luigi shluld be re worked luigi loseing his side b while his down b is moved to the side b spot and the down b is replaced by a vacume atack that brings enemys closer for easy super jump punch atack while marios side b is replace with the mario tornadio seing how the spinmove was used in the galxy games giving the bros two seperat atack styles mario to go to enemys while luigi lets them come to him

 

[Big-Cat]

What characters would you feel could have reworked combinations of throws, normals and specials?

Do you want the short or the long one?

Every character could use some changes to various degrees. Either for balancing reasons, make them more standout, increase playstyle diversity, more depth in their moveset, etc.

 

[~automatic]

Every character could use some changes to various degrees.

Thanks Captain Obvious!

I meant newcomers with movesets made up from another two or more character movesets.

 

[MagnesD3]

Lucas specials need work, and his forward smash, Ganon needs an overhall except for his b over and a few a moves, I want falco and toon link gone, link to gain some speed and fox to take backe some properties from falco.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I want falco and toon link gone, link to gain some speed and fox to take backe some properties from falco.

Oh hooray, more "herp clones are bad gaiz!" Joy.

 

[Big-Cat]

Thanks Captain Obvious!

I meant newcomers with movesets made up from another two or more character movesets.

Well, a character is more than the sum of the moves as I've said before. I think Lucas was more than a coincidence than anything else save for the resemblance to Ness' moves.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's understandable if a move looks similar between two unrelated characters, mainly due to the large amount of characters and only so many ways you can interpret different types of techniques.

 

[Gamingboy]

It's understandable if a move looks similar between two unrelated characters, mainly due to the large amount of characters and only so many ways you can interpret different types of techniques.

This is true. There's a term for this... parallel development? Basically, it means that two or more things appear similar, but it's a coincidence that is a result of that working well, not because of any type of copying or whatever.

It's like saying that two birds' wings are similar. Of course they are similar, evolution favors that type of wing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah. If we start to fuss about one or two similar moves than we might as well get rid of Fox or Kirby as they have similar up tilts.

One or two moves are fine. Full movesets and Landmasters is something else entirely.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I think it's much more convenient than the current Pokemon Trainer mechanic, but to each their choice.

JUST WANNA SEE CHARIZARD VS BLASTOISE DAMMIT!

Lets just have Gold ve Red, Feraligatr vs Charizard

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Alright, I am going to take a break from this forum for awhile. I can't see anything would happens until someone release juicy news, rumors or anything, then I will be back.