Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[MagnesD3]

Also I think galaxy1 is worse than sunshine IMO sunshine is great

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh I felt quite the opposite. Never played Galaxy 2 though.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Anyways, after megaman, I thought the next best choice for a character would be Phoenix Wright, but his last 3 games haven't seemed to make it to America yet

 

[MagnesD3]

Galaxy 2 is the best Mario game created, it's almost flawless

 

[Starphoenix]

You mean sucking others close with Poltergeist then sweetspot them with the Up B? Damn, that'd make Luigi awesome!

This is actually what I had in mind too. Glad you brought it up.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No problem. But feel like F Smash, given it still would have the power from Brawl, would be an equal as sexy set up.

Feel like the Poltergeist, if implemented as great as I have in mind, would really make Luigi a lot better.

Will try to borrow Galaxy 2 from a friend then if you say it's so good. Others feel the same about Galaxy 2's 'flawlessness'?

 

[Starphoenix]

My only concern would be balancing Luigi's special. As long as the suction does not stun opponents and disallow for any counter-attacks, everything should be fine.

 

[lobotheduck21]

No problem. But feel like F Smash, given it still would have the power from Brawl, would be an equal as sexy set up.

Feel like the Poltergeist, if implemented as great as I have in mind, would really make Luigi a lot better.

Will try to borrow Galaxy 2 from a friend then if you say it's so good. Others feel the same about Galaxy 2's 'flawlessness'?

Yea, it took what galaxy made great and made it even better (plus you don't have to unlock luigi

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Will try to borrow Galaxy 2 from a friend then if you say it's so good. Others feel the same about Galaxy 2's 'flawlessness'?

Definitely wouldn't call it flawless. There are some harder stars to get than any of the ones in the 1st Galaxy game, but in an unnecessarily annoying way. All still fairly beatable though, but aside from the Yoshi, I prefer the first Mario Galaxy more, as far as music, level design, etc. But I do like both of them over Sunshine.

Anyhow, I'm for removing the FLUDD from Mario's moveset as much as the next person, but I'm not sure the tornado move is what needs to come back. I forget, but wasn't Mario's tornado not as effective as Luigi's anyway?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Not having to unlock Luigi IS really sexy though! Might as well call it Super Luigi Galaxy, cause if he's an option, I'd always pick Luigi over Mario.

And yeah, others should definitely be able to counter Poltergeist when sucked in.

 

[Arcadenik]

Rather have F.L.U.D.D as an item though...

I think that is a cop-out. Instead of improving F.L.U.D.D. for the sake of better recovery, we give him Star Spin, which is exactly the same as the Mario Tornado in Melee? That move improved Mario's aerial down+A move. I think Sakurai should work on improving how F.L.U.D.D. helps Mario. Mario could have better recovery if he'd fully charged his water gun.

Uncharged
Double Jump - normal double jump
Up+B - normal Super Jump Punch
Down+B - charge the water gun

Charged
Double Jump - hover (float like Peach) via the Hover Nozzle
Up+B - Super Jump Punch powered by the Rocket Nozzle
Down+B - shoot water to push enemies away

Also, just imagine how hovering with F.L.U.D.D. would help Mario with aerial combat and keeping opponents off the stage. Hover + Mario Tornado (down+A) and Hover + Cape (side+B) . Oh man, he would be scary in the air.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Not having to unlock Luigi IS really sexy though! Might as well call it Super Luigi Galaxy, cause if he's an option, I'd always pick Luigi over Mario.

And yeah, others should definitely be able to counter Poltergeist when sucked in.

Luigi and Mario both have an equal amount of stars to collect in the game though, but to unlock Luigi's green stars, you have to get all of Mario's first IIRC.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Anyhow, I'm for removing the FLUDD from Mario's moveset as much as the next person, but I'm not sure the tornado move is what needs to come back. I forget, but wasn't Mario's tornado not as effective as Luigi's anyway?

So because it's not as good as another characters, that means it shouldn't come back? Even if it's not as good as Luigi's, it's still more useful than FLUDD is.

Luigi's tornado being better than Mario's makes sense, given that Luigi is known for being a higher jumper than Mario.

I think that is a cop-out. Instead of improving F.L.U.D.D. for the sake of better recovery, we give him Star Spin, which is exactly the same as the Mario Tornado in Melee? That move improved Mario's aerial down+A move. I think Sakurai should work on improving how F.L.U.D.D. helps Mario. Mario could have better recovery if he'd fully charged his water gun.

Tornado is a better dAir than the drill kick? News to me.

Uncharged
Double Jump - normal double jump
Up+B - normal Super Jump Punch
Down+B - charge the water gun

Charged
Double Jump - hover (float like Peach) via the Hover Nozzle
Up+B - Super Jump Punch powered by the Rocket Nozzle
Down+B - shoot water to push enemies away

Also, just imagine how hovering with F.L.U.D.D. would help Mario with aerial combat and keeping opponents off the stage. Hover + Mario Tornado (down+A) and Hover + Cape (side+B) . Oh man, he would be scary in the air.

This looks super gimmicky. Mario needs to be a character that's easy to pick up and play, not one with a whole bunch of dumb gimmicks.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

So because it's not as good as another characters, that means it shouldn't come back? Even if it's not as good as Luigi's, it's still more useful than FLUDD is.

Luigi's tornado being better than Mario's makes sense, given that Luigi is known for being a higher jumper than Mario.

I'm not saying it shouldn't come back just because it's not as good as Luigi's, but if there are better or more interesting options/alternatives for Mario's FLUDD replacement, I'd rather have one of those. Like the idea Arcade just mentioned about a star spin special, for instance.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mario indeed does need more straight forward moves which are easy to use. And Galaxy Spin could even be a nice finisher, and not work like the Tornado did.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'm not saying it shouldn't come back just because it's not as good as Luigi's, but if there are better or more interesting options/alternatives for Mario's FLUDD replacement, I'd rather have one of those. Like the idea Arcade just mentioned about a star spin special, for instance.

What? He just said he though Star Spin would be just like Tornado(I could totally get behind that though).

A spin attack of some kind is the best possible choice IMO. Be it the Tornado, the Star Spin, or something else.

 

[MagnesD3]

Galaxy 2 has more variety, difficulty and tons of content, you will have a blast with it. The first galaxy felt particularly dry to me even with spot on controls.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I see the Galaxy / Star Spin would be a one hit attack though. And powerful enough to be a finisher, which is something Mario needs. It could, like the Tornado, also be a way to gain aerial momentum. So it's not all about relevancy, it's also considering Mario's weaknesses.

 

[Arcadenik]

This looks super gimmicky. Mario needs to be a character that's easy to pick up and play, not one with a whole bunch of dumb gimmicks.

How is it gimmicky? How is it complicated or hard to comprehend for the dumb casual players?

 

[MagnesD3]

I think the fludd should stay but I think it should be 1 tool of Mario's and not define his playstyle.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

How is it gimmicky? How is it complicated or hard to comprehend for the dumb casual players?

It's gimmicky because you've basically reinvinted his whole moveset around a charging gimmick.

More importantly: why does he need his moveset reinvented? His Melee moves, with a few tweaks, would be just fine.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think the fludd should stay but I think it should be 1 tool of Mario's and not define his playstyle.

I disagree. The way F.L.U.D.D. currently works is not that useful in Brawl. I think it could be more useful for improving Mario's recovery and aerial combat. People are always talking about how Smash needs a reboot, perhaps this is a way to reboot Mario's playstyle even though all his current A and B moves are still the same. It would give you new ways of playing as Mario.

 

[3Bismyname]

i think FLUDD should go. only reason it was added was to be a shoutout to Sunshine which is old news now. give him the Star Spin from galaxy or hell a hammer from the Mario and Luigi games and we're good.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I disagree. The way F.L.U.D.D. currently works is not that useful in Brawl. I think it could be more useful for improving Mario's recovery and aerial combat.

Why waste time trying to improve FLUDD when just giving him his Tornado back would be better?

People are always talking about how Smash needs a reboot

Really? I haven't noticed more than a few people who reallywant a reboot.

perhaps this is a way to reboot Mario's playstyle even though all his current A and B moves are still the same. It would give you new ways of playing as Mario.

Okay, so even if people were asking for a reboot(which they aren't), why would Mario need to get a new moveset? What's wrong with just keeping his Melee one?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

What? He just said he though Star Spin would be just like Tornado(I could totally get behind that though).

A spin attack of some kind is the best possible choice IMO. Be it the Tornado, the Star Spin, or something else.

Not sure if it would be just like the tornado, but whether it would or not, it would at least be something slightly different than just reusing the exact same move and animation from the first two smashes. The latter would be lazy.

Galaxy 2 has more variety, difficulty and tons of content, you will have a blast with it. The first galaxy felt particularly dry to me even with spot on controls.

More variety or content doesn't always mean better game, and the first Galaxy felt dry? Whaaat? Strongly disagree, sir.

 

[Oasis_S]

More variety or content doesn't always mean better game, and the first Galaxy felt dry? Whaaat? Strongly disagree, sir.

Whoa there.

 

[Arcadenik]

Uncharged
B - Fireball (same like Melee/Brawl)
Side+B - Cape (same like Melee/Brawl)
Up+B - Super Jump Punch (same like Melee/Brawl)
Down+B - Charge F.L.U.D.D. (same like Brawl)
Final Smash - Mario Finale (same like Brawl)
Double Jump - double jump (same like Melee/Brawl)

Charged
B - Fireball (still unchanged)
Side+B - Cape (still unchanged)
Up+B - Super Jump Punch (changed, can go higher because it's powered by Rocket Nozzle)
Down+B - Shoot Water (same like Brawl)
Final Smash - Mario Finale (still unchanged)
Double Jump - float like Peach, changed because it's powered by Hover Nozzle

Creative players would come up with different ways to utilize F.L.U.D.D., influencing changes in Mario's playstyle. In other words, I didn't change Mario's moveset, just his playstyle.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Uncharged
B - Fireball (same like Melee/Brawl)
Side+B - Cape (same like Melee/Brawl)
Up+B - Super Jump Punch (same like Melee/Brawl)
Down+B - Charge F.L.U.D.D. (same like Brawl)
Final Smash - Mario Finale (same like Brawl)
Double Jump - double jump (same like Melee/Brawl)

Charged
B - Fireball (still unchanged)
Side+B - Cape (still unchanged)
Up+B - Super Jump Punch (changed, can go higher because it's powered by Rocket Nozzle)
Down+B - Shoot Water (same like Brawl)
Final Smash - Mario Finale (still unchanged)
Double Jump - float like Peach, changed because it's powered by Hover Nozzle

Creative players would come up with different ways to utilize F.L.U.D.D., influencing changes in Mario's playstyle. In other words, I didn't change Mario's moveset, just his playstyle.

Yes you did actually change his moveset, since his ^B is now affected by charge.

 

[MagnesD3]

Mario has always been an all around character in everything he is in, I honestly think he should retain that style while received a buffed flud, and buffed/changed cape.

Also if the game is the exact same formula with the exact same controls and creators more variety probably means a better game, but I think galaxy 2 is the best Mario ever created if that says anything, 64 coming second, then sunshine then galaxy.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The mechanic are probably going to be changed again, since every game in the Super Smash Bros. series changes things up from the obvious to the subtle.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yes you did actually change his moveset, since his ^B is now affected by charge.

Yes, he can now go higher than before. His vertical recovery is improved, no? Or do you think that Mario being able to go higher hurts Mario competitively?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Also if the game is the exact same formula with the exact same controls and creators more variety probably means a better game, but I think galaxy 2 is the best Mario ever created if that says anything, 64 coming second, then sunshine then galaxy.

A sequel can have more variety in something and still not be as good as the predecessor if it doesn't have as good music, level design, and other things which I felt was the case when comparing Galaxy 2 to the first one, but everyone has their own opinion. Also depends on what the added variety has to offer or if it was something necessary to begin with. The highlight of what Galaxy 2 had over the first one though was Yoshi.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Yes, he can now go higher than before. His vertical recovery is improved, no? Or do you think that Mario being able to go higher hurts Mario competitively?

Well, one, my point was that you changed his moveset when you said you didn't.

And I'm not complaining that thse changes hurt him competitively. I'm asking why he needs a charging gimmick added when his Melee moveset would likely be just fine.

 

[Feels]

I think having the Spin thing from the Galaxy games would be better as Mario's Down B, the two Galaxy games are much more known and relevant than Sunshine. It could help boost his recovery and be a High-knockback attack as opposed to a multi-hitting one from Melee and 64.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, one, my point was that you changed his moveset when you said you didn't.

And I'm not complaining that thse changes hurt him competitively. I'm asking why he needs a charging gimmick added when his Melee moveset would likely be just fine.

It's to improve Mario's recovery. Hover Nozzle improves his horizontal recovery (double jump). Rocket Nozzle improves his vertical recovery (up+B).

Of course, creative players would utilize Mario's newfound ability to float and incorporate it to their playstyles. That's why I suggested a few ideas for what Mario could do with Hover Nozzle. Imagine floating like Peach off the stage and then turning the opponents around with the Cape and then float back to the stage. Or doing several Mario Tornados (down+A) while floating like Peach... or even mix it up with other A moves and juggle enemies.... imagine that, Mario's own wall of pain. All of these new tactics would be possible if you charged Mario's F.L.U.D.D. (down+B)... It would be a whole lot better than just shooting water like it does in Brawl or just spinning around in one spot like he did in Melee.

 

[MagnesD3]

A sequel can have more variety in something and still not be as good as the predecessor if it doesn't have as good music, level design, and other things which I felt was the case when comparing Galaxy 2 to the first one, but everyone has their own opinion. Also depends on what the added variety has to offer or if it was something necessary to begin with. The highlight of what Galaxy 2 had over the first one though was Yoshi.

I felt 2s levels were designed very well they gave you short tastes of awesome levels with different challenges that constantly changed up the way u get the star, I just couldn't fall in love with levels from the first galaxy not many left a huge impact, I do love the fish and stone fights, and that theme for them is awesome.

 

[Starphoenix]

Btw, Mario's Star Spin move should not catch enemies like Mario and Luigi Tornado do in Melee and Brawl. There should be some knockback to it in the same way that Mario knocks Goomba's and Octoomba's all over the place in Galaxy.

EDIT: Nevermind, somebody already addressed my post.

 

[ChronoBound]

Kirby's Return to Dream Land sold 700K in Japan alone. Return to Dream Land was easily the biggest Kirby game in over a decade. Its too bad people are too harsh on Waddle Dee. I think the spear moveset he had would transition well into Smash Bros., however, I do think Kirby is fine with just the playable characters it had in Brawl.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

It's to improve Mario's recovery. Hover Nozzle improves his horizontal recovery (double jump). Rocket Nozzle improves his vertical recovery (up+B).

Of course, creative players would utilize Mario's newfound ability to float and incorporate it to their playstyles. That's why I suggested a few ideas for what Mario could do with Hover Nozzle. Imagine floating like Peach off the stage and then turning the opponents around with the Cape and then float back to the stage. Or doing several Mario Tornados (down+A) while floating like Peach... or even mix it up with other A moves and juggle enemies.... imagine that, Mario's own wall of pain. All of these new tactics would be possible if you charged Mario's F.L.U.D.D. (down+B)... It would be a whole lot better than just shooting water like it does in Brawl or just spinning around in one spot like he did in Melee.

Why does he need these though? Mario is a Jack-of-all-Stats. He's supposed to be fairly competent in all areas, but not the best in any of them. His recovery- as it stood in Melee, anyway-reflected that, being above average, but not the best.

Why does Mario need a new playstyle?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Now thought that it could be more of a Down Smash then (Star Spin).

Chrono: I really wish to see Dee, he'd definitely complete the so-called "Kirby Core 4"-team of present.