Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[BKupa666]

Medusa was only popular for like two years. Victini probably not even one year. They burned up much more quickly than Krystal did. Krystal's burn off was much more slow (especially when you compare it to other popular pre-Brawl characters like Geno and Lyn). Initially, there were a lot of people angry that another "Fox clone" got in over Krystal (I think the reason why people thought Krystal was a shoe-in was due to the "dark colored" Fox and Krystal's voice actress saying she did voice work for Brawl). However, as the years went on, people realized that Sakurai made the right choice. Its also important to keep in mind that the Wolf fanbase was on par with Krystal's even in the West during pre-Brawl, its just that over time the Wolf fanbase was being demoralized and made more passive during the twilight of pre-Brawl (from September 2007 onward).

You know, it was likely around that timeframe that Wolf was added alongside Sonic last-minute. If the Wolf fanbase was indeed quiet at the time, it's possible that Sakurai chose him over Krystal just because he was terrified of Krystal's fans at the time. It would be delicious irony if their rabid support kept actually kept her out of Smash.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If the rumors running around the internet have any form of legitimised truth, then I presume Wolf was always considered the definitive choice for a new Star Fox character but kept getting the shaft in someway.

Of course this is presuming the rumors are true, which was never actually proven.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Wolf fanbase might've been more active in Japan though. And Sakurai even stated he didn't even knew who Krystal was at some point, didn't he? Which is quite weird, as Fox was based on his more recent appearances, all from games that also had Krystal in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know, it was likely around that timeframe that Wolf was added alongside Sonic last-minute. If the Wolf fanbase was indeed quiet at the time, it's possible that Sakurai chose him over Krystal just because he was terrified of Krystal's fans at the time. It would be delicious irony if their rabid support kept actually kept her out of Smash.

Nah, he didn't even know who Krystal was. I forgot where he said it, but he chose the character he knew about. However, it's possible he may add her later, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. I more or less agree her boat has passed. If they have more room, sure, but if he's going to be conservative this time around(and not counting dlc), I wouldn't add her before some bigger ones, like say, Toad. Or even Tingle(who's actually far more popular than her, and has three of his own games, heh). Or various other new series characters, I.E. Dillon, Little Mac, Shulk, Isaac, etc.

 

[---]

@DLC: I don't think Chrono or some of the newer members in the Discussion Group participated in this thread, but we were all in agreement over the possibility of DLC:

Two things you guys know:
1. Online games have to be synchronized between players
2. Sakurai intends for a system in which player skill/data carries over between versions

This means that essential content for the primary multiplayer will be the same across all versions. Smash is a fighting game, so that includes:
- Playable character technical data (hitboxes/frames/etc.)
- Stage technical data, including custom stage options
- All other physics-related stuff, including items and options

These things CAN be changed with mandatory patching, though characters/stages require their cosmetic data or some really good lookin' placeholders.


Let's look at the non-essentials, where version differences and DLC can come into play:
- Character/stage models, effects, animations (assuming no technical changes)
- All audio data
- Controllers and extra commands (C-stick)
- Anything affecting other modes, including gameplay with different rules/physics
- Personal user data (custom characters/stages)

If it doesn't connect to other versions or doesn't affect gameplay, it goes here. This stuff actually takes up way WAY more memory than the essentials -- particularly music and movie files -- and basically means any concerns about the 3DS version's content are completely ********.


I keep thinking there were some other essentials to be listed, I guess that's where you guys come in.

Short version of Toise's crime solving skills: Expect DLC to be music packs and alt costumes, possibly new modes or more trophies or whatever if they're interested in that. Any new characters or stages will be required in a free update.


Other Toise bits:
- I'm gonna rule out on-disc DLC since it's an extremely un-Nintendo/-Sakurai thing to do
- Barring notable bugs, I can't say I expect any patches or DLC at all; Sakurai prefers to move on to new projects after finishing the last one, and there's typically an extreme level of content in his games to begin with
- Apparently Harada absolutely hates paid DLC, good deal
- Still betting that Sakurai's pushing for either the 3DS as a Wii U controller or online play between both systems

Yeah should probably use some more original stuff, but I'm lazy and am not good at simplifying things.

 

[MagnesD3]

Man I miss the pre brawl Krystal love, I still think she would be an awesome character to play as and a great rep, it just sucks her support has went way down, at least k Rool and Ridley are still really wanted :/

 

[IntelliHeath1]

I feel Luigi's moveset is fine. To me he no longer feels like a clone. The only thing Mario and Luigi share i think are fireballs and the spinning uppercut.

Fireballs make sense though. Cause Luigi also shoots fireballs when he gets a fireflower in NSMB games and SMB. So it's not really a clone move.

The Spinning UpperCut kind of works for both of them too. And it's slightly different.

Where did you get that from? I didn't mention clones or anything related to that. I'm just saying that Luigi is going to have second game in his pocket where he is main protagonist. That would led me to thinking it's possible that they are going to change his logo from mushroom to Luigi's Mansion where he would actually represent his own game with new moveset with Vaccuum and Ghost theme.

Honestly, It would be cool if they are going to change his final smash, where he would cowardly running away from ghosts. Ghost would attack random characters that are close to Luigi.

 

[MagnesD3]

Luigi isn't a clone but I do feel his down a in air should be Luigi cyclone and his b down should be changed to the vacuum suck

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Luigi isn't a clone but I do feel his down a in air should be Luigi cyclone and his b down should be changed to the vacuum suck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOGSiTXyBzk&t=0m6s

Replacing Luigi's Down B with vacuum is a very dumb Idea. I don't see Poltergust being anything other than dumb and gimmicky.

I don't see why him having another game means that we need to go muck up his moveset just for "relevancy" of "uniqueness" or whatever word you feel like using.

 

[MagnesD3]

Actually I always thought it could be an interesting move that does damage from certain distances but has no recoil except pulling them closer, when used at a really close range it becomes basically a grab. (More or less a suck up move) I've always thought it would be neat, also if they had done Mario's fludd correctly in the first place it wouldn't be considered a "gimmick".

 

[Starphoenix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOGSiTXyBzk&t=0m6s

Replacing Luigi's Down B with vacuum is a very dumb Idea. I don't see Poltergusst being anything other than dumb and gimmicky.

I don't see why him having another game means that we need to go muck up his moveset just for "relevancy" of "uniqueness" or whatever word you feel like using.

Replacing Mario's down special with FLUDD was a dumb, gimmicky idea too, but that did not stop it from happening. I think the same probably will happen to Luigi, while Mario will probably lose FLUDD in place of his Galaxy Spin. If "relevancy" does affect one thing, it's attacks.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

also if they had done Mario's fludd correctly in the first place it wouldn't be considered a "gimmick".

FLUDD is utterly useless. There's nothing functionally it can do that one of his other specials can't do.

Spray? Only good for gimping/edgequarding, which cape already does.
Hover nozzle? Only good for horizontal recovery, which cape and Tornado can do.

Rocket and Dash nozzles would be overpowered and wouldn't gel with Mairo's character design.

 

[MagnesD3]

Replacing Mario's down special with FLUDD was a dumb, gimmicky idea too, but that did not stop it from happening. I think the same probably will happen to Luigi, while Mario will probably lose FLUDD in place of his Galaxy Spin. If "relevancy" does affect one thing, it's attacks.

I'd rather them not take it out and actually try to give it useful properties but this is Nintendo and not a fighting game company so I don't expect much

 

[MagnesD3]

FLUDD is utterly useless. There's nothing functionally it can do that one of his other specials can't do.

Spray? Only good for gimping/edgequarding, which cape already does.
Hover nozzle? Only good for horizontal recovery, which cape and Tornado can do.

Rocket and Dash nozzles would be overpowered and wouldn't gel with Mairo's character design.

I personally would make the charge time shorter and make the move have a lot less start up, I would have it become an extremely good edge guarding tool.

 

[Oasis_S]

Sakurai thought about giving Luigi his vacuum back in Melee. He probably wanted to wait and see if it would really "stick" to him as a character. Perhaps Brawl was his answer to that question. Though with Dark Moon, who knows.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I personally would make the charge time shorter and make the move have a lot less start up, I would have it become an extremely good edge guarding tool.

You really missed the point.

As I said, Mario already has a decent edgeguarding/gimping tool in the form of his cape(which also doubles as a projectile reflector), so FLUDD would be redundant next to that.

 

[MagnesD3]

Sakurai thought about giving Luigi his vacuum back in Melee. He probably wanted to wait and see if it would really "stick" to him as a character. Perhaps Brawl was his answer to that question. Though with Dark Moon, who knows.

Instead if it sucking of life I could see it sucking on damage, with pulling properties similar to kirbies suck move but less force. The suck up would also be unblock able similar to Kirby's

 

[MagnesD3]

You really missed the point.

As I said, Mario already has a decent edgeguarding/gimping tool in the form of his cape(which also doubles as a projectile reflector), so FLUDD would be redundant next to that.

I would rather have the cape be the projectile reflector it is and give mario more horizontal movement in air like it did in melee, I'd like it to be used as more of a recovery tool and anti projectile attack instead of edgeguarding, also cape does damage so the opponent gets another recovery move while fludd does no damage (note I could be wrong about the damage part on the cape move if it doesn't do damage I would make it do damage)

 

[kikaru]

The only thing i can see the vacuum contributing to luigi's moveset is as a grab/throw

 

[Starphoenix]

Sakurai thought about giving Luigi his vacuum back in Melee. He probably wanted to wait and see if it would really "stick" to him as a character. Perhaps Brawl was his answer to that question. Though with Dark Moon, who knows.

I could see Dark Moon prompting Sakurai to revisit the Poltergust idea.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I would rather have the cape be the projectile reflector it is and give mario more horizontal movement in air like it did in melee, I'd like it to be used as more of a recovery tool and anti projectile attack instead of edgeguarding, also cape does damage so the opponent gets another recovery move while fludd does no damage (note I could be wrong about the damage part on the cape move if it doesn't do damage I would make it do damage)

Why can't it be all three? And no, cape doesn't refresh recovery.

I don't see the reason Mario needs FLUDD in his moveset. As stated before, it doesn't add anything that one of his other moves doesn't already do, and FLUDD doesn't even have "recentness" to "justify" its inclusion.

 

[Diddy Kong]

FLUDD was really stupid yeah.

 

[MagnesD3]

Why can't it be all three? And no, cape doesn't refresh recovery.

I don't see the reason Mario needs FLUDD in his moveset. As stated before, it doesn't add anything that one of his other moves doesn't already do, and FLUDD doesn't even have "recentness" to "justify" its inclusion.

It could do all three but I would rather force the player to rely on all of the characters moves instead of fewer but that's just from my design standpoint

 

[Robert of Normandy]

It could do all three but I would rather force the player to rely on all of the characters moves instead of fewer but that's just from my design standpoint

He already does need to use all of his specials effectivley; Mario needs to use Cape, Tornado, and Super Jump to effectivley recover.

 

[MagnesD3]

He already does need to use all of his specials effectivley; Mario needs to use Cape, Tornado, and Super Jump to effectivley recover.

Not fludd tho lol, I would be essentially buffing and nerfing cape and heavily buffing fludd to give it purpose.

 

[FlareHabanero]

He needs all of them, and he still sucks at recovering. Kinda sad actually.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I always kinda wanted Mario to use his Cape as Up B. Seems a little too late for that though. But yeah, Mario has awkward looking recovery. His Up B could be longer I feel. HE'S JUMPMAN, MAN! MAKE THE MAN ABLE TO JUMP, MAN!

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Not fludd tho lol, I would be essentially buffing and nerfing cape and heavily buffing fludd to give it purpose.

FLUDD isn't used because it's useless. It should just be cut, and Mario should have his Melee moves(\/B Tornado, drill kick dAir) back.

 

[MagnesD3]

Maybe they could make it where u can cancel into flood shot mid hit or during pressure to push them to the edge when near it to force some edge guard mix ups.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Maybe they need to just cancel FLUDD. Mario Sunshine is over, and it's pretty much the worst 3D Mario game ever? Galaxy Spin for Down B baby! It even gained a little aerial momentum in Mario Galaxy, just what Mario needs.

 

[Arcadenik]

I guess no one saw my ideas for F.L.U.D.D. over in the Mario thread.

Oh, and if F.L.U.D.D. should be cut because Super Mario Sunshine is old, then the Cape needs to be cut as well because Super Mario World is way older than Super Mario Sunshine.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Oh, and if F.L.U.D.D. should be cut because Super Mario Sunshine is old, then the Cape needs to be cut as well because Super Mario World is way older than Super Mario Sunshine.

The difference is that the cape is actually useful and wasn't just added to make Mario "recent."

FLUDD is both no longer relevant AND basically useless.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Super Mario World was quite the classic however Arc. And the Cape was added when Side Bs became something new to the series. Down B was always there, and F.L.U.D.D literally replaced his old Down B. So there is the main difference.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Man, guess I was late for watching the pandora's tower trail, game looks sweet and the music is cool

Ya lets get rid of the fludd, ploguster could be cool if done right (could set up luigi's up b quite nicely)

 

[Diddy Kong]

You mean sucking others close with Poltergeist then sweetspot them with the Up B? Damn, that'd make Luigi awesome!

 

[Arcadenik]

Since nobody looks at the veteran threads that are not about Mewtwo or Roy, here's what I posted on the Mario thread this morning.

F.L.U.D.D., Mario's water gun from Super Mario Sunshine. I want to see this improved. Here's my ideas. When Mario fully charges F.L.U.D.D., he have three options as to what to do with all that water.

Option #1 - he can input Down+B again to shoot water like in Brawl

Option #2 - he can hover with the water shooting downward, somewhat similar to Peach's ability to float, instead of the standard double jump

Option #3 - he can input Up+B to skyrocket with the water-powered jetpack while jump-punching instead of his normal Super Jump Punch

After Mario runs out of water from doing any of the above, he has to input Down+B again to recharge his water gun.

Other than that, just give him all of Dr. Mario's stats and hitboxes and whatever else that made Dr. Mario competitively superior to Mario in Melee and just give his fireballs more speed and strength like Dr. Mario's pills.

All Sakurai needs to do is to repurpose F.L.U.D.D. to make it useful.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Rather have F.L.U.D.D as an item though...

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Rather have F.L.U.D.D as an item though...

THAT I could get behind. Same for Polterugst as well.

 

[lobotheduck21]

You mean sucking others close with Poltergeist then sweetspot them with the Up B? Damn, that'd make Luigi awesome!

Someone gets it

 

[Diddy Kong]

Luigi would be much better with the Poltergeist because he's so slow. He'd then have oppertunities to land his attacks without people running away and camping him all the time. Poltergeist into F Smash also would be really sexy.