Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Shun_one]

...Caeda is pronounced "see-da" like Caesar being pronounced "see-zar"...

And, well, I'm still not certain whether or not Chrom will take Ike's spot or get his own. Could go either way.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'd say the same about you and Roy.

Anyway I'm still seeing that there's just as many differences as there are similarities, that said I myself am starting to move onto the Chrom boat, with FE13 most likely being the final turning point. Sorry Roy.
.

Well no one else ever speaks up for Roy, so I have to do the heavy lifting for him. I really wish other Roy supporters would be more pro-active.

Actually, I always knew you would become a Chrom supporter. Your language was always evasive when the topic of three FE characters would come up, and you never liked Roy anyway.

Oh well, at least I got Toise. (even he seems to think Ike and Chrom are too similar)

 

[Arcadenik]

I think Chrom might get in over Ike and Roy... he might even be like a hybrid of Ike and Roy in terms of moveset, stats, and gameplay.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's not just Roy, but a lot of things are not pro-active. The only ones that show extensive activity is K. Rool, Ridley, and Mewtwo. Everything else is pretty subdued by comparison.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Toise's opinion doesn't quite hold water now with so much new information about Chrom. He was already innactive when I came around, and people where saying I was being far too early to say Chrom will definitely make it. Yet, what's the general opinion now?

HyperFalcon you're arguement doesn't go much farther than 'this was it was, so this is what it'll be'. Really, why are you even speculating if you expect everything will stay the same now?

 

[ChronoBound]

It's not just Roy, but a lot of things are not pro-active. The only ones that show extensive activity is K. Rool, Ridley, and Mewtwo. Everything else is pretty subdued in comparison.

I would say Waluigi and Mega Man fans have extensive activity too. However, you're right that things right now are subdued (compared to pre-Brawl). I think once Smash 4 is announced we will finally see a massive burst in activity.

However, traditionally, I have found Roy fans to be passive from my past experience during pre-Brawl and so far of pre-Smash 4.

On a side note, I got some interesting analysis on Star Fox that I have been cooking up. I will post it later today, but I still think you guys will still be chasing your own tail in regards to Fire Emblem.

Toise's opinion doesn't quite hold water now with so much new information about Chrom. He was already innactive when I came around, and people where saying I was being far too early to say Chrom will definitely make it. Yet, what's the general opinion now

Toise has a very low opinion of this thread. He even coined a term for it, which may be too offensive to repeat here. In the backroom, he has talked more about stuff.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd be glad to hear it though.

Waluigi fans are only active cause Waluigi as a character overall is just literally trollbait. And in general K.Rool, Mewtwo and Ridley are easily the most awesome additions they can make. We just love powerful villains it seems.

Megaman's support is also justified I feel. It's now basically the best time to expect him in. I don't care about him though.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, and Mega Man also happen to be by far the most wanted newcomers in the West, so its understandable why they have by far the most activism and fervor of all the character fanbases.

I think we will get half of those characters in the unveil trailer at E3 2013.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wasn't Sheeda's named changed back to its original name in the European release?

I finally found a great example of how I envisioned Saki playing if he were in the next Smash Bros. Just throw in some laser sword attacks to replace some of the physical, and we'd have a dead ringer. Even the super attack is close to the Final Smash idea myself and many others have for him.

http://youtu.be/JRUQk1N4e1k

This would be a better playstyle for Saki:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWR-5EjApPs

And man, does PSAS lack any soul whatsoever.

 

[---]

Actually, I always knew you would become a Chrom supporter. Your language was always evasive when the topic of three FE characters would come up, and you never liked Roy anyway.

Never liked Roy but I never disliked him either. Was my Melee main. Never really got a feel for his personality, heck up to this point I've been thinking in the context of him being a Marth clone in game too.

That said you're making me feel guilty, so I'll start taking a bit of a look into Roy himself. Since I'm free this weekend I'll start spending some time reading the manga, and depending on where I'm at with FE12 (am on Chapter 15) I'll start on his game next. I'm a man of my word, need some time to kill anyway until FE13's release.

Evasive? I can agree with that a little, outside of no cuts, I honestly can't say there's a character that I support with fanboy-ish glee, even Mewtwo.

Oh well, at least I got Toise. (even he seems to think Ike and Chrom are too similar)

Pretty sure Toise is "Marth and Chrom are too similar," but same diff.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toise's opinion doesn't quite hold water now with so much new information about Chrom. He was already innactive when I came around, and people where saying I was being far too early to say Chrom will definitely make it. Yet, what's the general opinion now?

I think it was because that was back in September 2011 when Fire Emblem: Awakening was just announced... naturally people were in the denial stage then. Nowadays, most people are in the bargaining stage when it comes to Fire Emblem characters.

I would say Waluigi and Mega Man fans have extensive activity too. However, you're right that things right now are subdued (compared to pre-Brawl). I think once Smash 4 is announced we will finally see a massive burst in activity.

However, traditionally, I have found Roy fans to be passive from my past experience during pre-Brawl and so far of pre-Smash 4.

Personally, I think it is because their fanbases are at their most desperate when it comes to these specific characters. Look back at their fanbases' reactions when they didn't get in Brawl. Sure, fans really want Isaac, Starfy, Saki, and more female characters badly but they really, really, REALLY want King K. Rool, Ridley, and Mega Man soooo badly, especially in light at how little they get from Nintendo or Capcom post-Brawl.

 

[ChronoBound]

That said you're making me feel guilty, so I'll start taking a bit of a look into Roy himself. Since I'm free this weekend I'll start spending some time reading the manga, and depending on where I'm at with FE12 (am on Chapter 15) I'll start on his game next. I'm a man of my word, need some time to kill anyway until FE13's release.

Pretty sure Toise is "Marth and Chrom are too similar," but same diff.

Some word of advice about Hasha no Tsurigi (the FE6 manga), the main protagonist of the manga is Al, a character that does not appear in FE6. However, there were weapons in FE6 of the primary characters in Hasha no Tsurigi (Al's sword, Gant's lance, Tiena's staff). Roy does not show up until later on in Hasha no Tsurigi, and its quite a long manga. However, Roy is awesome in the manga when he does show up. :wink:

Also, it was Ike he was talking about it, I will dig it up and send it to you via PM. Still, Toise still thinks its going to be Marth, Roy, and Ike.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Toise also thinks the Zelda roster will remain untouched. Which is also something I heavily disagree with.

 

[ChronoBound]

Toise also thinks the Zelda roster will remain untouched. Which is also something I heavily disagree with.

Most people think that way in regards to Zelda though (that it will have the same characters as it did in Brawl, and that only question is what design Sakurai decides to go with for the "child" version of Link).

Sheik also made two recent cameos in third-party games. Sheik was a costume in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (developed by Namco) and made an appearance in Scribblenauts Unlimited.

Sakurai: Actually, I was thinking about putting in Impa. However, I heard how much you Westerners hated clones so I held off on her.

On the note of clones, I still think clones get too much hate. They often play much differently than their "originals". The only two that seemed really similar were Dr. Mario and Mario, however, at the competitive level they still played pretty differently from one another.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toise also thinks the Zelda roster will remain untouched. Which is also something I heavily disagree with.

This is Toise we are talking about here, he seems like one of the most conservative speculators around here. Although he seems unusually liberal when it comes to F-Zero, he added Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow in his roster. But then again, he is a big fan of F-Zero. And of course, he added Mona for some reason... and he's a big fan of Professor Layton, who is also on his roster.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, 3rd party developers can do what they like, it's what's happening within the series what's more important. Look, I'm not trying to convince everybody it's a 100% certain thing, but Impa indeed is becoming a far more important character to Zelda's core cast. And she's actually one of the FEW characters who's important throughout the whole series.

While Sheik is really not anything special. Ganondorf for example is way more important to Ocarina of Time, and I feel that HIS moveset should be the biggest throwback to it. Say about Sheik what you want, but if Ganondorf has moves similar to his final battle in Ocarina, that's way more iconic than a few generic kicks and punches on a character that didn't even fight at all in the game she hails from.

Plus, the whole fact Sakurai had to mentoin she was NOT in Twilight Princess still implies he knows he wasn't exactly doing the Zelda series proper. But as said before, it was probably already decided upon Sheik returned before she was scrapepd from Twilight Princess. And yes, I do feel that an extra appearance would be a huge deciding factor on this. If Sheik in fact WAS in TP, I doubt I'd even consider Impa now. Even though Skyward Sword is more recent.

Just check the text: 'Sheik doesn’t appear in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, but we based her model on a design that was drafted up during the development of that game.'

All I'm saying is that I expect quite some changes in the Zelda roster this time around. Quite some revamps as well hopefully.

3 F-Zero reps though? Why is this guy even considered the most credible source up untill today? Sure, he has a strong opinion, but he ain't the Messiah of Smash so to say.

 

[The Black mage]

Only f-zero rep we need is CAPTAIN FALCON

 

[Moon Monkey]

If they can make viable interesting move-sets for them, I wouldn't mind more F-Zero rep.

 

[dezeray112]

I don't mind having another F-Zero rep too. Will have to wait and see what Sakurai had planned for the SSB4 roster.

 

[BKupa666]

I found Toise's other roster prediction posts after --- posted his F-Zero comments last night. In his Kid Icarus analysis was one particularly noteworthy Sakurai comment he made post-E3 2006.

I was well aware that Pit was a popular character in both America and Japan. I tried as best I could to design this version of him in a way that reflected current tastes, so I’m happy to see him so well received.

Note the bolded portion. This sounds like it could have been taken word-for-word from some of the character analysis posts we've been making for years. If nothing else, we know that Sakurai has a good feel on the pulse of who's popular, and where.

A question for Chrono: how vocal was the support for Pit before he was revealed, compared to the universally popular characters for SSB4 (Mewtwo, K. Rool, Megaman)? If the support for them is anything like Pit's was, it would be grounds for considering these three even more likely than most of us already do.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Samurai Goroh is interessting. But he'd be yet again another sword user. And I'd prefer many, many other sword fighters over him.

Black Shadow gets my vote for 'Watashi Wa Shinen? SHINENZU!' though.

Pit was quite popular before his reveal in the Brawl trailer though. I remember him, Wario, MetaKnight and Diddy being the most suggested. Hence why it was so awesome Meta Knight, Pit and Wario especially got into the very first Brawl trailer.

 

[BKupa666]

I remember fearful posts about how Diddy wouldn't be in the game because we got those three in the opening trailer, but not him. The same posters speculated that the Jungle Beat gibbon was a shoo-in instead.

 

[ChronoBound]

A question for Chrono: how vocal was the support for Pit before he was revealed, compared to the universally popular characters for SSB4 (Mewtwo, K. Rool, Megaman)? If the support for them is anything like Pit's was, it would be grounds for considering these three even more likely than most of us already do.

I saw far more activity and hype in terms of characters for Smash 3 (Brawl) at this time than Brawl. Pit was within the Top 10 most wanted characters I saw in the West. The most wanted characters prior to the Brawl unveil were Wario, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Diddy Kong, Ridley, Wolf, and Pit.

This time there is definitely less characters that there is a fervent demand for on the eve of the unveil than there was for Brawl. The only characters I see that match the support the support I saw for those characters then are Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man, and Mewtwo.

 

[Arcadenik]

The Helper Monkey? That's ridiculous.

I gotta ask what possessed Sakurai to add R.O.B. in Brawl. I don't think he wasn't fervently demanded in Japan and America like Pit was.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I remember fearful posts about how Diddy wouldn't be in the game because we got those three in the opening trailer, but not him. The same posters speculated that the Jungle Beat gibbon was a shoo-in instead.

I still hate how Nintendo EAD shamelessly replaced Diddy for that. While Mario Galaxy, which is also made by them, has the most obscure Mario references and characters returning. 'Not fresh enough'? My hairy stinky *** in yo face.

Diddy was probably not revealed cause DK wasn't revealed either. If it had been him instead of say, Kirby, Diddy would've probably been revealed instead of MetaKnight. Zero Suit Samus was revealed cause of the 'rivally' between Kid Icarus and Metroid I feel.

 

[ChronoBound]

I remember fearful posts about how Diddy wouldn't be in the game because we got those three in the opening trailer, but not him. The same posters speculated that the Jungle Beat gibbon was a shoo-in instead.

I never (or perhaps rarely) saw requests for the helper monkey. I also do not remember seeing anxiety about Diddy Kong. Most people thought he was a shoe-in. Most people overlooked Jungle Beat, and Diddy made a lot of new game appearances not just in the Mario spinoffs (in which he appeared in most of them, except maybe the Mario Party games and Mario Kart DS), but also within the DK series (the Donkey Konga trilogy and the Paon trilogy).

Contrast that with the situation of K. Rool and Dixie Kong in which there only post-Brawl appearance was Mario Super Sluggers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Did I also already voice my opinion on DKCR's buddy system and how it degraded Diddy, and basically made Diddy the new Dixie? No? Well, I disliked that ****.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, at least Diddy Kong is playable... which is more than you can say about Dixie Kong.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only as the second player though.

Which is why I played this game only with a friend.

Being player 2 never felt so good.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

HyperFalcon you're arguement doesn't go much farther than 'this was it was, so this is what it'll be'. Really, why are you even speculating if you expect everything will stay the same now?

Because that's totally what I said. I don't expect Sheik to leave. I didn't speak of the rest of the roster, now did I? Don't put words in my mouth or assume more than I actually said.

Impa, Tingle, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, and Vaati are all possible newcomers(not counting the whole Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik(or Tetra, preferrably) bit). I won't deny that. However, Impa is severely overrated(especially here since you're still shoving it towards us), Ghirahim is somewhat more likely as he was received very very well, Tingle actually plays a role in the regular game via an AT(and did stuff in Melee that affected gameplay), so he could very possible as a newcomer, and the last two are just somewhat notable characters that could make it in, but don't have as much going for them as the other 3 do. As for the omitted character that I mentioned, I'd say she's the most likely next to Tingle or Ghirahim right now.

Also, I don't necessarily see a Child Link changeout right now. Albeit, I'd want to see it. As for Ganondorf, probably OOT since that's the latest game(as I doubt Toon Ganondorf will make it in, even if it was be awesome.)

 

[BKupa666]

The paranoia regarding Diddy generally stemmed from the hardcore DK fanbase, who had felt the brunt of no great DK games being made since DK64, and had come off the heels of Jungle Beat, which disappointed them. There were a lot of worries that, because characters like Bowser and Zelda were being confirmed before DK on the DOJO, and no DK updates had been seen, that the franchise would be shafted once again.

Speaking of the DK fanbase, I read their hypothesis on why we don't see K. Rool crossing over into Mario spin-offs as much, and it does make sense: he would share the villain spotlight with Bowser in games where Bowser is unquestioningly cemented into the villain role (in other words, he'd be redundant). Diddy and other Kongs (Dixie and Funky, mainly) don't face this problem.

Plus, recently, these spin-off developers have started choosing palette swaps like Metal Mario and Dry Bowser for their rosters instead of using more original characters (they're okay with -that- kind of redundancy, it seems), so the absences of K. Rool and Dixie shouldn't be held against them in those titles.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sheik was the last (NOT unlockable) veteran confirmed on the Dojo. I remember the paranoia that Sheik might not get in Brawl because Zelda didn't transform into Sheik in Twilight Princess. Sakurai pointed out that he based Sheik's model on the concept art intended for Sheik's appearance in Twilight Princess during the development of Twilight Princess.

Personally, I would be fine with Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Impa, and Tingle as the Zelda characters in SSB4. Link, Zelda, and Impa get their Skyward Sword designs. Ganondorf gets his Wind Waker design to fit in with the Skyward Sword characters. Tingle gets a mix of Wind Waker and Rosy Rupeeland designs to fit in with the Skyward Sword characters (and he is the oddball). And he would be more interesting than the Balloon Fighter, IMO.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, Hyper you where basically only saying 'Sheik = Zelda in Smash so Sheik STAYS Zelda in Smash' as your main argument. So yeah, I didn't bother too much replying to your argument. See what you mean right now though, but I honestly doubt that Ghirahim would make it, and Impa not. At least, I don't expect to ever see the combination of Ghirahim and Sheik. If they gonna go SS-style, we'll most likely get Impa. Why? Cause with Sheik, they already have a good base character for a moveset.

What scares me however is a Zelda roster with Ghirahim, Tingle and Sheik. 3 of the most... controversial Zelda characters ever, in one game. Paranoid parents would ban the **** out of Zelda games for their children forever.

Personally, what I'd like most is:

Link (plays a bit lke a heavier Toon Link- SS-style, with Skyward Strike for Side B)
Zelda / Impa (a few duo moves)
Ganondorf (OoT3DS style, moveset revamp based on OoT boss fight)
Young Link (MM-styled, with no masks however. Keeps the classic 'bomb, arrow, boomerang'-playstyle)
Skull Kid (**** yeah, Skull Kid. Even has some TP-based moves with that flute and puppets)
*Ghirahim* (depending on ammount of Mario characters / ammount of playble characters in general)

Only seems likely if MM gets a remake, which I doubt. But this is what I would think is ideally, to my preferences. A more likely scenario:

Link
Zelda
Impa
Ghirahim
Ganondorf

 

[Deleted member]

This would be a better playstyle for Saki:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWR-5EjApPs

Why is Noel so Moe?
I still prefer her classic look though.

Anyway, I agree. Noel's big deal in BB is that she can switch and chain her combos with her Drive. You can have something similar with Saki by making him a Stance Character that can switch between Gun and Sword on the go with his NSpec. thus altering some of his moves and their properties. Close range gun combat would be the easiest to balance and considering how hectic S&P is, Gun Kata may be the best way to go for him, just toss in one or two long range moves for Spacing and he's good to go.

Only f-zero rep we need is CAPTAIN FALCON

This guy gets it!

Falcon is manly enough to sell anything by himself.

On the Zelda thing, I still gamble for the idea that we're losing Toon Link w/ no replacement, leaving us with 3 slots and 4 characters. This could actually be very beneficial for Normal Link.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Diddy Kong being a stubborn mule with a fetish for old hags aside...

Okay, I will say that I was one of the biggest supporters for Pit a long time ago. Granted I didn't express it because that was before I delve deep into forums, but I had that really deep passion for Kid Icarus. You could imagine how amazed I was when Pit actually did show up in Super Smash Bros. To this day I still feel grateful for what has happened and what became of it. This passion still continues to this day with Palutena being a top priority newcomer for me.

At the same time, I also want to see Mysterious Murasame Castle to become the next successor to the chain of fate. To continue the destiny of a long lost franchise that was reincarnated under a new light in a new world. To do that, I feel Super Smash Bros. is pretty much the solution.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hey man, you'd be old to if you could

Spoiler

live up a 1000 or so years

. Are some people even aware of what Impa I want in? Sometimes I'm not so sure about that, and people just disregard me as a troll.

Above post is why retro additions are awesome. They should pretty much be the only characters who'd be able to get in without need of popularity and relevance. Which is a nice contrast in the roster.

No Toon Link is actually the best thing that can happen for Link. Especially if they merge Brawl's Link with Toon Link. I think that would make up for a very sexy character. Would hope the new Link gets Toon Link's aerials as well. Especially B Air and F Air. U Air could also use a power boost I feel. It's always been a little too weak for my opinion.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Falcon is manly enough to sell anything by himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAj01fYE4yg

Still think Samurai Goroh has a pretty good chance though

 

[Deleted member]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAj01fYE4yg

Still think Samurai Goroh has a pretty good chance though

dat Link

Hahahaha, that's brilliant. Now I wanna Draw Falcon as Terry Crews telling people to buy Old Spice, or better yet!

Spoiler

Your Punches are now DIAMONDS!!

 

[Diddy Kong]

No draw C.Falcon doing that one insane workout Terry Crews did in that one movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AuIURhCoAA

 

[Moon Monkey]

Look at your percent. Now back at me. Look back at your percent. You now have 35% . Now look down. Back to me. Now look at your stock. Now look at my fist. It's a flaming falcon. Now look at your stock. Your missing a stock. Look again, now your getting knee'd. Look at your screen the match is over. I'm on a Landmaster.