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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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TheCreator

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I would balance them both.
Relevance comes into play for series such as Mario and kirby, when thinking about characters like toad, bandana dee and waluigi. But popularity HAS to have a role with series like Pokemon, where not very many Pokemon besides starters and legendarys have very much real relavence in the games.

:phone:
 

SmashShadow

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To me personally, Smash has always been a game of deserve. If a character gets in than it means that they were at the top, they were the most important and they earned being in this game. To take that out of the game seems to cheapen the characters already in and the game as a whole. I don't think that just because you have the more relevant and popular characters in Smash that they can't bring something new to game. If that's the case than all the past games failed. Gameplay and character choice should be equally important. People come for the characters but stay for the gameplay.
 

FlareHabanero

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It seems like people from the west don't understand the charm idea because a lot of people on that side despise clones, ether because they think it's lazy character design that forced out more worthwhile stuff or adds insult to a character that was genuinely wanted like Ganondorf.
 
D

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To me personally, Smash has always been a game of deserve. If a character gets in than it means that they were at the top, they were the most important and they earned being in this game. To take that out of the game seems to cheapen the characters already in and the game as a whole. I don't think that just because you have the more relevant and popular characters in Smash that they can't bring something new to game. If that's the case than all the past games failed. Gameplay and character choice should be equally important. People come for the characters but stay for the gameplay.
But you're miss-interpreting what I say. Popular characters still get in, but not ONLY because they're popular. It really is disappointing to see unique characters miss their chance because Generic clone ripoff number 57 got in. If you look at the rosters for 64 and Melee, this was the case aside from the clones that were used to beef up the roster due to time constraints. Every character was made with a unique gameplay idea in mind, not simply due to popularity.

The job of a game developer is to make a game that you can have fun with, not to satisfy the latest trends in internet popularity contests. The moment Brawl began to go down the "popularity route" the moment Smash Bros began to lose its magic touch.

Popularity and relevance take a backseat to gameplay, if this wasn't the case we wouldn't have seen characters like Pkmn Trainer, ROB, and Olimar make it to Brawl, and IC, G&W, Ness and Falcon make it to 64 and Melee.

In my personal opinion, it goes:

Gameplay>Diversity>Relevance>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Popularity.

If people disagree they're entitled to do so, but imo, they're missing the point in what makes Smash Bros a great game. The game was designed with gameplay in mind first, the characters were added second. PSABR is a game that thought of characters first, gameplay second, and thus falls largely on its face when compared to Smash, games like this are plenty.
 

ChronoBound

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It seems like people from the west don't understand the charm idea because a lot of people despise clones, ether because they think it's lazy character design or adds insult to a character that was genuinely wanted like Ganondorf.
Yeah. Its pretty much just a Western problem. In Japan, I have seen a lot more support for Pichu than I have seen in the West.

In the detailed Pichu support post yesterday, the Pichu supporter cited these things as to why Pichu deserves to return:
- Said he was the face of the Gold/Silver generation.
- That Ukele Pichu was used in a lot of promotions in the past several years.
- That Notched-ear Pichu was used in several movies and games with notable roles.

Pichu is still quite popular in Japan, despite being objectively made to be worse than Pikachu. That is the strength of "charm" in Japan.
 

FlareHabanero

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Keep in mind the different beliefs between the two sides of the coin. A classic example is the contrasting views between the Japanese and Americans.

-The Japanese are more fond of cute things, while Americans are more fond of tough things.
-The Japanese embrace the present, while Americans embrace the past.
-The Japanese have more of a sense of comparing, while Americans have a sense of contrasting.

You can even see what I mean regarding to this very speculation.
 

TheCreator

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A great example of this discussion is Tingles Rosy Rupeeland, and how it was released in Japan only.
Speak of the devil. Tingle seems like the answer to my Zelda dilemma I had yesterday.

:phone:
 
D

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Keep in mind the different beliefs between the two sides of the coin. A classic example is the contrasting views between the Japanese and Americans.

-The Japanese are more fond of cute things, while Americans are more fond of tough things.
-The Japanese embrace the present, while Americans embrace the past.
-The Japanese have more of a sense of comparing, while Americans have a sense of contrasting.

You can even see what I mean regarding to this speculation.
I see what you mean, but good game design is still good game design, you can see this even on Nintendo games, which tend to be more gameplay focused, and Nintendo is a Japanese company after all.

Gameplay never takes a backseat to anything else when making a game, especially in a fighter. The only genre that could possibly get away with that, is the RPG because of story, and even then, we start to look at aspects such as immersion and stuff, and those are parts of what define gameplay as well. A good story is nothing if you can't get into it. It's the same case here, just because people can't appreciate the fact that gameplay is the central focus of Smash Bros, doesn't mean it isn't.

I can guarantee you SSB wouldn't be half the game it is, if gameplay had taken a backseat to things like popularity and relevance. Once again, I site PSABR, a game that did precisely that, and simply tried to make an All-Star mash up game filled with nothing but those suggestions, and as a result, the game ended up having no SOUL.

I hate to bring up the "videogames are an art" card, as it's very pretentious, but the fact remains that this is largely true. Games that try to appeal to the masses by satisfying the lowest common denominator tend to be the worst in the industry (CoD, Madden, etc...).
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Habanero: True. But if anything, Westerners shouldn't be considered a minority compared to Japanese because how much their views contrast with them. Smash Bros shouldn't be just be pleasing japanese masses and throw more clones or popular requests in Japan only after all.

The Creator: Tingle's Roseful Rupeeland was released in Europe as well. (-l´l-);
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Just throwing this out there. I just went onto IGN, and they have a poll for most popular Pokemon starters.

Generation 1 knocks every other generation out of the park, with Charmander taking most popular starting Pokemon. Clearly, as many have sasid before, the first generation will always (or for most of the time) be the most popular, so having so many Pokemon from the first Generation shouldn't be a huge issue.

In my opinion, considering there are more than 700 Pokemon now, I don't think it would be crazy or a huge problem for Pokemon to have more roster spots, like 5 or more I mean.

So, lets say there is a Lucarioesque Pokemon that is revealed. If that pokemon is added, I see no reason why that, Lucario, and Mewtwo can't all be on the roster. Especially if they are all popular choices. (Well, the new one might be for advertisement, but then again, the entire game is advertisement)
 

FlareHabanero

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I never said anything about pandering to a single side, I was giving a reason why there are different views between two different sides. I mean if you pay attention, there is a reason why some characters get lopsided support.
 

ChronoBound

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Habanero: True. But if anything, Westerners shouldn't be considered a minority compared to Japanese because how much their views contrast with them. Smash Bros shouldn't be just be pleasing japanese masses and throw more clones or popular requests in Japan only after all.
That is very ironic you mention that because you should very well know that most of the characters you support (Toad, Starfy, Palutena, Dixie Kong, Lip, Tingle) are more popular in Japan than they are in the West. :troll:
 
D

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Just throwing this out there. I just went onto IGN, and they have a poll for most popular Pokemon starters.

Generation 1 knocks every other generation out of the park, with Charmander taking most popular starting Pokemon. Clearly, as many have sasid before, the first generation will always (or for most of the time) be the most popular, so having so many Pokemon from the first Generation shouldn't be a huge issue.

In my opinion, considering there are more than 700 Pokemon now, I don't think it would be crazy or a huge problem for Pokemon to have more roster spots, like 5 or more I mean.

So, lets say there is a Lucarioesque Pokemon that is revealed. If that pokemon is added, I see no reason why that, Lucario, and Mewtwo can't all be on the roster. Especially if they are all popular choices. (Well, the new one might be for advertisement, but then again, the entire game is advertisement)
700 Pokemon...

I wonder who'll be Pokemon #666.
 

SmashShadow

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But you're miss-interpreting what I say. Popular characters still get in, but not ONLY because they're popular. It really is disappointing to see unique characters miss their chance because Generic clone ripoff number 57 got in. If you look at the rosters for 64 and Melee, this was the case aside from the clones that were used to beef up the roster due to time constraints. Every character was made with a unique gameplay idea in mind, not simply due to popularity.

The job of a game developer is to make a game that you can have fun with, not to satisfy the latest trends in internet popularity contests. The moment Brawl began to go down the "popularity route" the moment Smash Bros began to lose its magic touch.

Popularity and relevance take a backseat to gameplay, if this wasn't the case we wouldn't have seen characters like Pkmn Trainer, ROB, and Olimar make it to Brawl, and IC, G&W, Ness and Falcon make it to 64 and Melee.

In my personal opinion, it goes:

Gameplay>Diversity>Relevance>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Popularity.

If people disagree they're entitled to do so, but imo, they're missing the point in what makes Smash Bros a great game. The game was designed with gameplay in mind first, the characters were added second. PSABR is a game that thought of characters first, gameplay second, and thus falls largely on its face when compared to Smash, games like this are plenty.
Yes, I'd rather a new character get in rather than a new clone but for the characters we already have in the game that are clonish, you can always de-clone them. I will always believe that the most relevant characters are the ones who should get in though and I see popularity as a way of choosing from the list of relevant characters. I'm of the belief that even characters that don't have an extraordinary looking moveset will play differently than every other character in the game if that moveset is different. This effectively makes everyone diverse.

You say the job of the game creator is to make a fun game and not cater to popularity but in truth(and I know a lot of others feel this way) I would have more fun playing with my favorite characters. Of course this doesn't mean that any popular character should just get in though.

Of the characters you listed 3 are retros so popularity doesn't even factor in there. And every single character from 64 would add something to the game as there was nothing there to begin with. The ones that are left over were also relevant at the time of inclusion.

Diversity comes from adding a character with new moves and gameplay. But should a character that is more important miss out because a lesser character has a new kind of style? That's where we differ.

For me: Relevancy=Gameplay/diversity
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Chrono: I'm aware of that, of course.

But I'm just trying to say that even if "westerners don't like clones", it doesn't mean they're just being dumbly oblivious to their "charm"- and that's what I mean that western view on things shouldn't be looked down when compared to japanese (though I think you guys didn't intend to say so at the first place).

And also just throwing it there that we're still wanting Mac and Ridley too. I'm usually one wanting to see both sides getting their deserved shares, that's all.
 

ChronoBound

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Chrono: I'm aware of that, of course.

But I'm just trying to say that even if "westerners don't like clones", it doesn't mean they're just being dumbly oblivious to their "charm"- and that's what I mean that western view on things shouldn't be looked down when compared to japanese (though I think you guys didn't intend to say so at the first place).

And also just throwing it there that we're still wanting Mac and Ridley too. I'm usually one wanting to see both sides getting their deserved shares, that's all.
Ridley and Little Mac will likely be the bones that are thrown to the Western fanbase (maybe Isaac as well if he gets in, and possibly Krystal if she gets in). Japan really does not have much different tastes compared to the West (outside of the previous four characters I mentioned not being in there Top 10, or getting much support in general there), its just that certain characters there get more support there, such as Roy (being in the Top 2 in Japan, but in the Top 10 in the West), Shulk (being in the Top 6 in Japan, but outside the Top 10 in the West), Palutena (being in the Top 5 in Japan, but Top 10 in the West), and Dixie Kong (being in the Top 10 in Japan, but outside the Top 10 in the West). Mega Man, Mewtwo, and K. Rool enjoy equal amounts of support in both Japan and the West though.
 

lobotheduck21

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I would use both

Edit: if k. rool gets confirmed, then Dixie will be a top 10 or a top 5 character in the west

:phone:
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Ridley and Little Mac will likely be the bones that are thrown to the Western fanbase (maybe Isaac as well if he gets in, and possibly Krystal if she gets in). Japan really does not have much different tastes in Japan compared to the West (outside of the previous four characters I mentioned not being in there Top 10, or getting much support in general there), its just that certain characters there get more support there, such as Roy (being in the Top 2 in Japan, but in the Top 10 in the West), Shulk (being in the Top 6 in Japan, but outside the Top 10 in the West), Palutena (being in the Top 5 in Japan, but Top 10 in the West), and Dixie Kong (being in the Top 10 in Japan, but outside the Top 10 in the West). Mega Man, Mewtwo, and K. Rool enjoy equal amounts of support in both Japan and the West though.
If we look at it that way then, most of the characters that are expected are fairly popular on both sides. I just hope that Shulk keeps gaining some steam in the west then. Otherwise, the choices are looking good.
 
D

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Yes, I'd rather a new character get in rather than a new clone but for the characters we already have in the game that are clonish, you can always de-clone them. I will always believe that the most relevant characters are the ones who should get in though and I see popularity as a way of choosing from the list of relevant characters. I'm of the belief that even characters that don't have an extraordinary looking moveset will play differently than every other character in the game if that moveset is different. This effectively makes everyone diverse.

You say the job of the game creator is to make a fun game and not cater to popularity but in truth(and I know a lot of others feel this way) I would have more fun playing with my favorite characters. Of course this doesn't mean that any popular character should just get in though.

Of the characters you listed 3 are retros so popularity doesn't even factor in there. And every single character from 64 would add something to the game as there was nothing there to begin with. The ones that are left over were also relevant at the time of inclusion.

Diversity comes from adding a character with new moves and gameplay. But should a character that is more important miss out because a lesser character has a new kind of style? That's where we differ.

For me: Relevancy=Gameplay/diversity
Well, I'm not really that much into this topic... It's clear that we have very different opinions on the matter, and that neither one will sway the other. So for simplicity's sake, lets simply agree to disagree on the matter.

I was simply asked what I would do if put in charge, and I gave my answer. That's all man.

Chrono: I'm aware of that, of course.

But I'm just trying to say that even if "westerners don't like clones", it doesn't mean they're just being dumbly oblivious to their "charm"- and that's what I mean that western view on things shouldn't be looked down when compared to japanese (though I think you guys didn't intend to say so at the first place).

And also just throwing it there that we're still wanting Mac and Ridley too. I'm usually one wanting to see both sides getting their deserved shares, that's all.
I agree, this topic is starting to take a loop toward a direction that's totally irrelevant to be honest. It's not about how Westerners or Easterners see things. It's not about popularity. It's about what (in my opinion) makes a videogame a videogame in the first place.


To everyone else:

As I said before, I was simply asked my opinion, and I gave it. Sure, my opinion is contrary to the popular one in this thread, but that doesn't make it wrong. It has a degree of validity, but if people can't see it because they fail to see the big picture then, oh well man.

I'm no game designer, so I can't say I'm correct, but having played many different videogames and had many discussions with different people about what exactly makes games good, I'm very confident in what I say. I'm not gonna preach to everyone and tell them why they're wrong, that's just pretentious. I simply voiced what I was asked, if you disagree, then ok, I believe you fail to comprehend good game design, but that's just how I see it, and that's that.

So with that being said, I'm personally dropping the topic, it's not gonna go anywhere anyway.
 

ChronoBound

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If we look at it that way then, most of the characters that are expected are fairly popular on both sides. I just hope that Shulk keeps gaining some steam in the west then. Otherwise, the choices are looking good.
Shulk will probably break the Top 10 in the West after a few characters that are within the Top 10 in the West get confirmed for playable status at the Smash 4 unveil for E3 2013.
 

FlareHabanero

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The past characters also seem to appeal to a more western audience, like Pit having much more support in the west to the point of being mentioned in an interview by Sakurai himself.

A more modern equivalent would be Takamaru, which is especially notable since Mysterious Murasame Castle was not released outside of Japan.
 

ChronoBound

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Source pls chronobound

:phone:
I don't have a source for Shulk's growing popularity in the West other than the growing cult status for Xenoblade. At GameFAQs, Xenoblade was voted as runner-up for GOTY, and is pretty much being regarded as the best JRPG released during this generation.

Shulk's popularity as a character for Smash Bros. is pretty much on the coattails of Xenoblade's accolades.
 

TheCreator

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Ridley and Little Mac will likely be the bones that are thrown to the Western fanbase (maybe Isaac as well if he gets in, and possibly Krystal if she gets in). Japan really does not have much different tastes compared to the West (outside of the previous four characters I mentioned not being in there Top 10, or getting much support in general there), its just that certain characters there get more support there, such as Roy (being in the Top 2 in Japan, but in the Top 10 in the West), Shulk (being in the Top 6 in Japan, but outside the Top 10 in the West), Palutena (being in the Top 5 in Japan, but Top 10 in the West), and Dixie Kong (being in the Top 10 in Japan, but outside the Top 10 in the West). Mega Man, Mewtwo, and K. Rool enjoy equal amounts of support in both Japan and the West though.
My bad man. I meant a source for this.

:phone:
 

ChronoBound

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My bad man. I meant a source for this.

:phone:
N3ON, Toise, and Starphoenix (other respected reputable users) will say the same things in regards to Japanese popularity. I will provide with a link with one very long topic full of requests if you like (via private message due to nsfw ads). However, its very daunting to read because they frequently bust out into flame wars and there were a lot of idiot suggesting anime characters.

As to Western popularity, you can check out the main poll on this board, to get an idea. ;)
 

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Analysing characters' importance (Part 1)

I said I would do it, and here it is!

The Character Importance List - PART 1

Series covered: Super Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi's Island, Kirby and Kid Icarus

In this list, I will comment on each characters' importance to their franchise. This may be useful when discussing possible newcomers.

Before reading the list and commenting, take note on these factors:
- The character's importance is rated from 0 to 10, indicating recognizability and popularity within the series' fandom.
- For games with heavier emphasis on storyline, this will also take into account when rating the character's popularity.
- Despite my efforts to keep objectivity, I might slip some personal bias. I apologize for this in advance.
- For each franchise, I will make some personal comments on the franchise's content throughout the Smash games, while also making predictions on what might happen in the next game. These comments are SUBJECTIVE and certainly aren't to be taken as true or false.

Importance ratings:

[COLLAPSE="Super Mario Bros. series"]Mario - 10/10
Not only is the series mascot, as he also is the mascot of Nintendo itself. Widely known by the videogame community and stars in all Mario titles.
Can't really say much, now can I? Everyone knows who he is.

Luigi - 10/10
Mario's brother and originally a player character for a second player. One of the original 12 and almost as recognizable as Mario himself.

Peach - 10/10
Another known character from the series, usually playing the role of the distressed damsel. Had a starring role in one game and appears in both Melee and Brawl.

Bowser - 10/10
The main villain of the series, usually the responsible for Peach's many kidnappings and another recognizable face. Has appeared in Melee and Brawl.

Toad - 8/10
Another recognizable character of the series. Was playable in Super Mario Bros. 2 as well as both New Super Mario Bros. games released for home consoles. Appears as a special move for Peach in all her Smash Bros. appearences.

Bowser Jr. - 6/10
A secondary villain in the Mario series since Sunshine. Popular within the Mario fandom, but not as known as the main five above.

Waluigi - 5/10
While I like Waluigi, I will admit this: he is definitely NOT an important character for the franchise. One factor hurting his importance is precisely the fact that he never appears in main series games, being solely used as a Wario's partner in spin-off games.

Daisy - 5/10
More or less at the same level as Waluigi with the small difference of appearing as the distressed damsel in Super Mario Land. Nowadays, she only appears in spin-offs, usually as Peach's partner.

Koopalings - 6/10
More or less on the same boat as Bowser Jr., being secondary villains in earlier games. The more recent game started featuring them alongside Bowser Jr., giving them back spotlight.

Dr. Mario - 4/10
Nowhere in the same level of importance as the other characters. While the likes of Daisy, Waluigi and Bowser Jr. often feature in the spin-off titles, Dr. Mario only features in very few games. The fact that he's basically Mario in a doctor's outfit doesn't help either. His popularity only extends to the Smash Bros. fandom, thanks to his appearence in Melee.

What can I say for this series? It's Nintendo's flagship franchise. The already most important characters are already in Smash Bros. and it's not like Nintendo's been including new characters in this franchise.
The only characters that I think that have a shot for SSB4 are Toad and Bowser Jr., unless Waluigi proves to be popular enough, I don't see him as a likely newcomer. At least, not yet.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Donkey Kong series"]Donkey Kong - 10/10
Overall, Donkey Kong is on the same boat as Mario. He's a recognizable character in the videogame world. Almost everything I said about Mario can apply to DK as well.

Diddy Kong - 9/10
Donkey Kong's sidekick and also had a protagonist role in DKC2 as well as his own racing game series: Diddy Kong Racing. Started to appear in Mario spin-offs as well, so it's one plus for him.

Dixie Kong - 8/10
Diddy's girlfriend and his sidekick in DKC2. Almost on the same level as Diddy, appearing in Diddy Kong Racing as well. If she had more appearences in the Mario spin-offs, she could get the same level of importance.

King K. Rool - 8/10
Main villain throughout the Country series. A known face for most Nintendo fans and already had few appearences in Mario spin-offs. On the same level as Dixie.

Cranky Kong - 7/10
Appears throughout the series, and is supposed to be the original DK of the arcade games. While known, he doesn't have the same level of popularity as the big four above.

Funky Kong - 6/10
Funky is an odd case. While he usually doesn't get very important roles in the series, he was playable in Jungle Climber, King of Swing and, to many players' surprise, Mario Kart Wii. He certainly has some popularity going for him.

While not as important as the main Mario series, the Donkey Kong series has a great level of recognizability. Possible newcomers: Dixie and K. Rool.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="The Legend of Zelda series"]Link - 10/10
The main character in the entire franchise. Should I say anything more?

Zelda - 10/10
The series' namesake, and (usually) the distressed damsel in the Zelda series. I wouldn't have given a 10/10 rating to her if it wasn't for her role in Skyward Sword.

Ganondorf - 10/10
Main antangonist in most games, considering he's the humanoid form of Ganon. Despite not appearing in Skyward Sword, some of his origins are fleshed out in that same game. One of the most recognized villains in video game story.

Tingle - 6/10
While Tingle is a recurring character in the Zelda franchise, and sometimes necessary to progress through the story, he's not as important to the plot as the other characters. He's popular in Japan and also has his own series.

Impa - 7/10
Zelda's caretaker throughout the whole franchise, her appearence varies from the many titles. Her most important role is in Skyward Sword... by far. She also contributes to the story of Ocarina of Time, being one of the Seven Sages and teaching Link an important ocarina song.

Dark Link - 5/10
Another recurring character and Zelda II's final boss. Is popular among the Zelda fans and has already appeared in Brawl as a color swap for Link.

Besides these characters, many of the characters of this franchise are one-shot characters that don't have an overall impact throughout the whole series. Some examples fitting this bill: Vaati, Midna, Zant, Ghirahim and Sheik.
Seeing the main three are in the SSB games since Melee, with Link also appearing in the original, there isn't much to add to the roster. Sheik will likely stay, since she's part of Zelda's moveset and the return of Young/Toon Link is also likely. The likeliest newcomers we might see are Impa or Tingle.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Metroid series"]Samus Aran - 10/10
Besides Ridley and the Metroids, she is the only character to make an appearence throughout the series. A recognizable icon of the videogame world, notably being one of the first female protagonists.

Ridley - 10/10
Samus's archenemy. The responsible for Samus's parents' murder, and the big reason Samus fights the Space Pirates. A very important character much like Ganon in the Zelda series. One of the West's most popular characters.

I am not listing any other Metroid characters, because they pale in terms of importance when compared to Samus and Ridley. If there's a newcomer for the Metroid series, expect him to be none other than Ridley himself.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Yoshi's Island series"]Yoshi - 10/10
Another well-known Mario character, also having his own series. Don't need to say much, do I?

Kamek - 7/10
The only other character people think when discussing the Yoshi series. Being the antagonsist alongside Baby Bowser, he's one of the few character to have major recognition.

Don't have much to say, this series is small and most of its characters are also featured in the main Mario series. The baby characters also wouldn't fit in Smash Bros. at all, thus I don't think we're getting a newcomer in the first place. If we do get a newcomer, though, I think it will be Kamek.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kirby series"]Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede - 10/10
These three are pretty much the only immediatly recognized characters when thinking on the Kirby series. They have co-starred many titles together, so it's fair to think they are equally important within the franchise.

Bandanna Dee - 7/10
A fourth main character in recent titles, co-starring with the main trio.

While there are many diverse characters in the Kirby universe, few have the same importance as Kirby, Meta and Dedede. Rick, Gooey, Nightmare, Dark Matter, Marx, Dyna Blade, Magolor and Galacta Knight certainly don't have the same level of importance as the four characters above, due to their fewer apparences and lesser recognizability.
I wouldn't expect a newcomer, but if there's one, it will be Bandanna Dee.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kid Icarus series"]Pit - 10/10
Protagonist in all three games. Despite having a hiatus lasting for over 20 years, the character remained popular among old-school games. With Uprising's lauch, his popularity skyrocketed.

Palutena - 10/10
Being the second character to appear in all three games, Palutena is as important as Pit himself. Her most important role is in Uprising, being Pit's advisor, guiding him throughout his many battles. She's also the most requested Kid Icarus character for SSB4.

Medusa - 7/10
The original villainess of the franchise. Would have a 10/10 if she wasn't overshadowed by Hades in Uprising.

Hades - 8/10
The main villain of the third game of the franchise, being the primary cause to all that happens during Uprising's story.

Viridi - 8/10
Also has a big role in Uprising's story, first as an antagonist, then as one of Pit's allies.

Dark Pit - 7/10
A copy of Pit, much like other Nintendo's dark counterparts. First appearing as Pit's rival, ending up to become Pit's allies, going as far to save Pit after Pit nearly died saving him. He's also inspired by Pit's black costume in Brawl.

Magnus - 6/10
A powerful human character in Uprising. Has very few appearences in Uprising compared to the other characters above, one of them as a playable character. Has an important contribution to the story during the Ring of Chaos chapter. Other than that, he hasn't very much going for him.

With 2 games with simple stories, and the third game introducing many characters, it could be said that Uprising overshadows the original two games. The series has proven to be popular both in Japan and outside, mainly thanks to the 2012 revival.
When discussing SSB4, Palutena is the likeliest character to appear as playable. Much like Dark Link already mentioned, Dark Pit will likely appear as a costume for Pit.[/COLLAPSE]

That's it for the first part. The next part will cover the following franchises: Star Fox, Pokémon, F-Zero, EarthBound, Fire Emblem, Wario and Pikmin.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
I said I would do it, and here it is!

The Character Importance List - PART 1

Series covered: Super Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi's Island, Kirby and Kid Icarus

In this list, I will comment on each characters' importance to their franchise. This may be useful when discussing possible newcomers.

Before reading the list and commenting, take note on these factors:
- The character's importance is rated from 0 to 10, indicating recognizability and popularity within the series' fandom.
- For games with heavier emphasis on storyline, this will also take into account when rating the character's popularity.
- Despite my efforts to keep objectivity, I might slip some personal bias. I apologize for this in advance.
- For each franchise, I will make some personal comments on the franchise's content throughout the Smash games, while also making predictions on what might happen in the next game. These comments are SUBJECTIVE and certainly aren't to be taken as true or false.

Importance ratings:

[COLLAPSE="Super Mario Bros. series"]Mario - 10/10
Not only is the series mascot, as he also is the mascot of Nintendo itself. Widely known by the videogame community and stars in all Mario titles.
Can't really say much, now can I? Everyone knows who he is.

Luigi - 10/10
Mario's brother and originally a player character for a second player. One of the original 12 and almost as recognizable as Mario himself.

Peach - 10/10
Another known character from the series, usually playing the role of the distressed damsel. Had a starring role in one game and appears in both Melee and Brawl.

Bowser - 10/10
The main villain of the series, usually the responsible for Peach's many kidnappings and another recognizable face. Has appeared in Melee and Brawl.

Toad - 8/10
Another recognizable character of the series. Was playable in Super Mario Bros. 2 as well as both New Super Mario Bros. games released for home consoles. Appears as a special move for Peach in all her Smash Bros. appearences.

Bowser Jr. - 6/10
A secondary villain in the Mario series since Sunshine. Popular within the Mario fandom, but not as known as the main five above.

Waluigi - 5/10
While I like Waluigi, I will admit this: he is definitely NOT an important character for the franchise. One factor hurting his importance is precisely the fact that he never appears in main series games, being solely used as a Wario's partner in spin-off games.

Daisy - 5/10
More or less at the same level as Waluigi with the small difference of appearing as the distressed damsel in Super Mario Land. Nowadays, she only appears in spin-offs, usually as Peach's partner.

Koopalings - 6/10
More or less on the same boat as Bowser Jr., being secondary villains in earlier games. The more recent game started featuring them alongside Bowser Jr., giving them back spotlight.

Dr. Mario - 4/10
Nowhere in the same level of importance as the other characters. While the likes of Daisy, Waluigi and Bowser Jr. often feature in the spin-off titles, Dr. Mario only features in very few games. The fact that he's basically Mario in a doctor's outfit doesn't help either. His popularity only extends to the Smash Bros. fandom, thanks to his appearence in Melee.

What can I say for this series? It's Nintendo's flagship franchise. The already most important characters are already in Smash Bros. and it's not like Nintendo's been including new characters in this franchise.
The only characters that I think that have a shot for SSB4 are Toad and Bowser Jr., unless Waluigi proves to be popular enough, I don't see him as a likely newcomer. At least, not yet.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Donkey Kong series"]Donkey Kong - 10/10
Overall, Donkey Kong is on the same boat as Mario. He's a recognizable character in the videogame world. Almost everything I said about Mario can apply to DK as well.

Diddy Kong - 9/10
Donkey Kong's sidekick and also had a protagonist role in DKC2 as well as his own racing game series: Diddy Kong Racing. Started to appear in Mario spin-offs as well, so it's one plus for him.

Dixie Kong - 8/10
Diddy's girlfriend and his sidekick in DKC2. Almost on the same level as Diddy, appearing in Diddy Kong Racing as well. If she had more appearences in the Mario spin-offs, she could get the same level of importance.

King K. Rool - 8/10
Main villain throughout the Country series. A known face for most Nintendo fans and already had few appearences in Mario spin-offs. On the same level as Dixie.

Cranky Kong - 7/10
Appears throughout the series, and is supposed to be the original DK of the arcade games. While known, he doesn't have the same level of popularity as the big four above.

Funky Kong - 6/10
Funky is an odd case. While he usually doesn't get very important roles in the series, he was playable in Jungle Climber, King of Swing and, to many players' surprise, Mario Kart Wii. He certainly has some popularity going for him.

While not as important as the main Mario series, the Donkey Kong series has a great level of recognizability. Possible newcomers: Dixie and K. Rool.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="The Legend of Zelda series"]Link - 10/10
The main character in the entire franchise. Should I say anything more?

Zelda - 10/10
The series' namesake, and (usually) the distressed damsel in the Zelda series. I wouldn't have given a 10/10 rating to her if it wasn't for her role in Skyward Sword.

Ganondorf - 10/10
Main antangonist in most games, considering he's the humanoid form of Ganon. Despite not appearing in Skyward Sword, some of his origins are fleshed out in that same game. One of the most recognized villains in video game story.

Tingle - 6/10
While Tingle is a recurring character in the Zelda franchise, and sometimes necessary to progress through the story, he's not as important to the plot as the other characters. He's popular in Japan and also has his own series.

Impa - 7/10
Zelda's caretaker throughout the whole franchise, her appearence varies from the many titles. Her most important role is in Skyward Sword... by far. She also contributes to the story of Ocarina of Time, being one of the Seven Sages and teaching Link an important ocarina song.

Dark Link - 5/10
Another recurring character and Zelda II's final boss. Is popular among the Zelda fans and has already appeared in Brawl as a color swap for Link.

Besides these characters, many of the characters of this franchise are one-shot characters that don't have an overall impact throughout the whole series. Some examples fitting this bill: Vaati, Midna, Zant, Ghirahim and Sheik.
Seeing the main three are in the SSB games since Melee, with Link also appearing in the original, there isn't much to add to the roster. Sheik will likely stay, since she's part of Zelda's moveset and the return of Young/Toon Link is also likely. The likeliest newcomers we might see are Impa or Tingle.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Metroid series"]Samus Aran - 10/10
Besides Ridley and the Metroids, she is the only character to make an appearence throughout the series. A recognizable icon of the videogame world, notably being one of the first female protagonists.

Ridley - 10/10
Samus's archenemy. The responsible for Samus's parents' murder, and the big reason Samus fights the Space Pirates. A very important character much like Ganon in the Zelda series. One of the West's most popular characters.

I am not listing any other Metroid characters, because they pale in terms of importance when compared to Samus and Ridley. If there's a newcomer for the Metroid series, expect him to be none other than Ridley himself.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Yoshi's Island series"]Yoshi - 10/10
Another well-known Mario character, also having his own series. Don't need to say much, do I?

Kamek - 7/10
The only other character people think when discussing the Yoshi series. Being the antagonsist alongside Baby Bowser, he's one of the few character to have major recognition.

Don't have much to say, this series is small and most of its characters are also featured in the main Mario series. The baby characters also wouldn't fit in Smash Bros. at all, thus I don't think we're getting a newcomer in the first place. If we do get a newcomer, though, I think it will be Kamek.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kirby series"]Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede - 10/10
These three are pretty much the only immediatly recognized characters when thinking on the Kirby series. They have co-starred many titles together, so it's fair to think they are equally important within the franchise.

Bandanna Dee - 7/10
A fourth main character in recent titles, co-starring with the main trio.

While there are many diverse characters in the Kirby universe, few have the same importance as Kirby, Meta and Dedede. Rick, Gooey, Nightmare, Dark Matter, Marx, Dyna Blade, Magolor and Galacta Knight certainly don't have the same level of importance as the four characters above, due to their fewer apparences and lesser recognizability.
I wouldn't expect a newcomer, but if there's one, it will be Bandanna Dee.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kid Icarus series"]Pit - 10/10
Protagonist in all three games. Despite having a hiatus lasting for over 20 years, the character remained popular among old-school games. With Uprising's lauch, his popularity skyrocketed.

Palutena - 10/10
Being the second character to appear in all three games, Palutena is as important as Pit himself. Her most important role is in Uprising, being Pit's advisor, guiding him throughout his many battles. She's also the most requested Kid Icarus character for SSB4.

Medusa - 7/10
The original villainess of the franchise. Would have a 10/10 if she wasn't overshadowed by Hades in Uprising.

Hades - 8/10
The main villain of the third game of the franchise, being the primary cause to all that happens during Uprising's story.

Viridi - 8/10
Also has a big role in Uprising's story, first as an antagonist, then as one of Pit's allies.

Dark Pit - 7/10
A copy of Pit, much like other Nintendo's dark counterparts. First appearing as Pit's rival, ending up to become Pit's allies, going as far to save Pit after Pit nearly died saving him. He's also inspired by Pit's black costume in Brawl.

Magnus - 6/10
A powerful human character in Uprising. Has very few appearences in Uprising compared to the other characters above, one of them as a playable character. Has an important contribution to the story during the Ring of Chaos chapter. Other than that, he hasn't very much going for him.

With 2 games with simple stories, and the third game introducing many characters, it could be said that Uprising overshadows the original two games. The series has proven to be popular both in Japan and outside, mainly thanks to the 2012 revival.
When discussing SSB4, Palutena is the likeliest character to appear as playable. Much like Dark Link already mentioned, Dark Pit will likely appear as a costume for Pit.[/COLLAPSE]

That's it for the first part. The next part will cover the following franchises: Star Fox, Pokémon, F-Zero, EarthBound, Fire Emblem, Wario and Pikmin.
Good job so far. The only things I will nitpick are that Dr. Mario does have an entire sub-series going for him (the Dr. Mario series, which sold very well, and Dr. Mario Online Rx was one of the best selling games for WiiWare), and that Baby Bowser is an important character for the Yoshi series (though Kamek is more important).

Other than that, I would say you did a good job so far. :)
 

lobotheduck21

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I said I would do it, and here it is!

The Character Importance List - PART 1

Series covered: Super Mario Bros., Donkey Kong, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi's Island, Kirby and Kid Icarus

In this list, I will comment on each characters' importance to their franchise. This may be useful when discussing possible newcomers.

Before reading the list and commenting, take note on these factors:
- The character's importance is rated from 0 to 10, indicating recognizability and popularity within the series' fandom.
- For games with heavier emphasis on storyline, this will also take into account when rating the character's popularity.
- Despite my efforts to keep objectivity, I might slip some personal bias. I apologize for this in advance.
- For each franchise, I will make some personal comments on the franchise's content throughout the Smash games, while also making predictions on what might happen in the next game. These comments are SUBJECTIVE and certainly aren't to be taken as true or false.

Importance ratings:

[COLLAPSE="Super Mario Bros. series"]Mario - 10/10
Not only is the series mascot, as he also is the mascot of Nintendo itself. Widely known by the videogame community and stars in all Mario titles.
Can't really say much, now can I? Everyone knows who he is.

Luigi - 10/10
Mario's brother and originally a player character for a second player. One of the original 12 and almost as recognizable as Mario himself.

Peach - 10/10
Another known character from the series, usually playing the role of the distressed damsel. Had a starring role in one game and appears in both Melee and Brawl.

Bowser - 10/10
The main villain of the series, usually the responsible for Peach's many kidnappings and another recognizable face. Has appeared in Melee and Brawl.

Toad - 8/10
Another recognizable character of the series. Was playable in Super Mario Bros. 2 as well as both New Super Mario Bros. games released for home consoles. Appears as a special move for Peach in all her Smash Bros. appearences.

Bowser Jr. - 6/10
A secondary villain in the Mario series since Sunshine. Popular within the Mario fandom, but not as known as the main five above.

Waluigi - 5/10
While I like Waluigi, I will admit this: he is definitely NOT an important character for the franchise. One factor hurting his importance is precisely the fact that he never appears in main series games, being solely used as a Wario's partner in spin-off games.

Daisy - 5/10
More or less at the same level as Waluigi with the small difference of appearing as the distressed damsel in Super Mario Land. Nowadays, she only appears in spin-offs, usually as Peach's partner.

Koopalings - 6/10
More or less on the same boat as Bowser Jr., being secondary villains in earlier games. The more recent game started featuring them alongside Bowser Jr., giving them back spotlight.

Dr. Mario - 4/10
Nowhere in the same level of importance as the other characters. While the likes of Daisy, Waluigi and Bowser Jr. often feature in the spin-off titles, Dr. Mario only features in very few games. The fact that he's basically Mario in a doctor's outfit doesn't help either. His popularity only extends to the Smash Bros. fandom, thanks to his appearence in Melee.

What can I say for this series? It's Nintendo's flagship franchise. The already most important characters are already in Smash Bros. and it's not like Nintendo's been including new characters in this franchise.
The only characters that I think that have a shot for SSB4 are Toad and Bowser Jr., unless Waluigi proves to be popular enough, I don't see him as a likely newcomer. At least, not yet.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Donkey Kong series"]Donkey Kong - 10/10
Overall, Donkey Kong is on the same boat as Mario. He's a recognizable character in the videogame world. Almost everything I said about Mario can apply to DK as well.

Diddy Kong - 9/10
Donkey Kong's sidekick and also had a protagonist role in DKC2 as well as his own racing game series: Diddy Kong Racing. Started to appear in Mario spin-offs as well, so it's one plus for him.

Dixie Kong - 8/10
Diddy's girlfriend and his sidekick in DKC2. Almost on the same level as Diddy, appearing in Diddy Kong Racing as well. If she had more appearences in the Mario spin-offs, she could get the same level of importance.

King K. Rool - 8/10
Main villain throughout the Country series. A known face for most Nintendo fans and already had few appearences in Mario spin-offs. On the same level as Dixie.

Cranky Kong - 7/10
Appears throughout the series, and is supposed to be the original DK of the arcade games. While known, he doesn't have the same level of popularity as the big four above.

Funky Kong - 6/10
Funky is an odd case. While he usually doesn't get very important roles in the series, he was playable in Jungle Climber, King of Swing and, to many players' surprise, Mario Kart Wii. He certainly has some popularity going for him.

While not as important as the main Mario series, the Donkey Kong series has a great level of recognizability. Possible newcomers: Dixie and K. Rool.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="The Legend of Zelda series"]Link - 10/10
The main character in the entire franchise. Should I say anything more?

Zelda - 10/10
The series' namesake, and (usually) the distressed damsel in the Zelda series. I wouldn't have given a 10/10 rating to her if it wasn't for her role in Skyward Sword.

Ganondorf - 10/10
Main antangonist in most games, considering he's the humanoid form of Ganon. Despite not appearing in Skyward Sword, some of his origins are fleshed out in that same game. One of the most recognized villains in video game story.

Tingle - 6/10
While Tingle is a recurring character in the Zelda franchise, and sometimes necessary to progress through the story, he's not as important to the plot as the other characters. He's popular in Japan and also has his own series.

Impa - 7/10
Zelda's caretaker throughout the whole franchise, her appearence varies from the many titles. Her most important role is in Skyward Sword... by far. She also contributes to the story of Ocarina of Time, being one of the Seven Sages and teaching Link an important ocarina song.

Dark Link - 5/10
Another recurring character and Zelda II's final boss. Is popular among the Zelda fans and has already appeared in Brawl as a color swap for Link.

Besides these characters, many of the characters of this franchise are one-shot characters that don't have an overall impact throughout the whole series. Some examples fitting this bill: Vaati, Midna, Zant, Ghirahim and Sheik.
Seeing the main three are in the SSB games since Melee, with Link also appearing in the original, there isn't much to add to the roster. Sheik will likely stay, since she's part of Zelda's moveset and the return of Young/Toon Link is also likely. The likeliest newcomers we might see are Impa or Tingle.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Metroid series"]Samus Aran - 10/10
Besides Ridley and the Metroids, she is the only character to make an appearence throughout the series. A recognizable icon of the videogame world, notably being one of the first female protagonists.

Ridley - 10/10
Samus's archenemy. The responsible for Samus's parents' murder, and the big reason Samus fights the Space Pirates. A very important character much like Ganon in the Zelda series. One of the West's most popular characters.

I am not listing any other Metroid characters, because they pale in terms of importance when compared to Samus and Ridley. If there's a newcomer for the Metroid series, expect him to be none other than Ridley himself.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Yoshi's Island series"]Yoshi - 10/10
Another well-known Mario character, also having his own series. Don't need to say much, do I?

Kamek - 7/10
The only other character people think when discussing the Yoshi series. Being the antagonsist alongside Baby Bowser, he's one of the few character to have major recognition.

Don't have much to say, this series is small and most of its characters are also featured in the main Mario series. The baby characters also wouldn't fit in Smash Bros. at all, thus I don't think we're getting a newcomer in the first place. If we do get a newcomer, though, I think it will be Kamek.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kirby series"]Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede - 10/10
These three are pretty much the only immediatly recognized characters when thinking on the Kirby series. They have co-starred many titles together, so it's fair to think they are equally important within the franchise.

Bandanna Dee - 7/10
A fourth main character in recent titles, co-starring with the main trio.

While there are many diverse characters in the Kirby universe, few have the same importance as Kirby, Meta and Dedede. Rick, Gooey, Nightmare, Dark Matter, Marx, Dyna Blade, Magolor and Galacta Knight certainly don't have the same level of importance as the four characters above, due to their fewer apparences and lesser recognizability.
I wouldn't expect a newcomer, but if there's one, it will be Bandanna Dee.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kid Icarus series"]Pit - 10/10
Protagonist in all three games. Despite having a hiatus lasting for over 20 years, the character remained popular among old-school games. With Uprising's lauch, his popularity skyrocketed.

Palutena - 10/10
Being the second character to appear in all three games, Palutena is as important as Pit himself. Her most important role is in Uprising, being Pit's advisor, guiding him throughout his many battles. She's also the most requested Kid Icarus character for SSB4.

Medusa - 7/10
The original villainess of the franchise. Would have a 10/10 if she wasn't overshadowed by Hades in Uprising.

Hades - 8/10
The main villain of the third game of the franchise, being the primary cause to all that happens during Uprising's story.

Viridi - 8/10
Also has a big role in Uprising's story, first as an antagonist, then as one of Pit's allies.

Dark Pit - 7/10
A copy of Pit, much like other Nintendo's dark counterparts. First appearing as Pit's rival, ending up to become Pit's allies, going as far to save Pit after Pit nearly died saving him. He's also inspired by Pit's black costume in Brawl.

Magnus - 6/10
A powerful human character in Uprising. Has very few appearences in Uprising compared to the other characters above, one of them as a playable character. Has an important contribution to the story during the Ring of Chaos chapter. Other than that, he hasn't very much going for him.

With 2 games with simple stories, and the third game introducing many characters, it could be said that Uprising overshadows the original two games. The series has proven to be popular both in Japan and outside, mainly thanks to the 2012 revival.
When discussing SSB4, Palutena is the likeliest character to appear as playable. Much like Dark Link already mentioned, Dark Pit will likely appear as a costume for Pit.[/COLLAPSE]

That's it for the first part. The next part will cover the following franchises: Star Fox, Pokémon, F-Zero, EarthBound, Fire Emblem, Wario and Pikmin.
Nice, I agree with what you put on all of those

:phone:
 

---

鉄腕
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@Importance List: K. Rool's an 8 while Ridley's a 10? I gotta call shenanigans on that, they both should be 9s. They're both important to their series but not the be all end all that they must appear in every game. I'd also move all of the Uprising characters all down to 7s if Medusa is being put there, except for Magnus.

Good luck with Pokemon and Fire Emblem, you're gonna need it. lol
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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I would have to agree Frostwraith. Good Job so far. You may want to include Paper Mario as an option in The Mario Bros. series however.
 

lobotheduck21

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@Importance List: K. Rool's an 8 while Ridley's a 10? I gotta call shenanigans on that, they both should be 9s. They're both important to their series but not the be all end all that they must appear in every game. I'd also move all of the Uprising characters all down to 7s if Medusa is being put there, except for Magnus.

Good luck with Pokemon and Fire Emblem, you're gonna need it. lol
K Rool didn't appear in the dkcr or jungle beat, the last two of the major Dk titles,

:phone:
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,998
@Importance List: K. Rool's an 8 while Ridley's a 10? I gotta call shenanigans on that, they both should be 9s. They're both important to their series but not the be all end all that they must appear in every game.
There is much of the DK series in which K. Rool is absent, and within the Mario spinoffs (of which Diddy Kong started appearing in 2002/2003), the only one he made an appearance in was Mario Super Sluggers. Nearly all of K. Rool's appearances within the DK series was within the games developed by Rare and Paon. Contrast that with Ridley who was in nearly every game in the series (the only exceptions being Metroid II, Metroid Prime 2, and Metroid Prime Hunters). Ridley even made an appearance as TWO bosses in Nintendo Land, which was the pack-in game for the Wii U. Takamaru and Toad are also playable characters in Nintendo Land (or at least your Miis dress up as them).
 

Gamingboy

Smash Lord
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Impressive act of devotion making that list, Frost. I'd have to say that there ARE some characters in Metroid that are in the realm of Ridley's importance, but they (Mother Brain, maybe Kraid) are basically impossible to put in as actual fighters.
 

ChronoBound

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Messages
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Impressive act of devotion making that list, Frost. I'd have to say that there ARE some characters in Metroid that are in the realm of Ridley's importance, but they (Mother Brain, maybe Kraid) are basically impossible to put in as actual fighters.
Mother Brain and Kraid were only in three games in the Metroid series. Ridley by comparison was in eight games in the series, and was only absent in three of them.
 

Moon Monkey

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Personally I see no need for anymore Mario characters other than Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser.
I mean Toad already has his cameo as Peach's Neutral Special, though that can be fixed by switching Toad with Toadsworth.

They need Ridley and King K. Rool. It was cute to tease Riddly in the SSBM intro trailer, and make him a boss in SSBB but now it's just getting ridiculous

That is a good in depth list; Though personally, I am an advocate of limiting the number of playable characters coming from 1 franchise. But it can go either way.
 

---

鉄腕
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Knew the fanboys would be all over me. But whatever I still stand by what I said especially for Ridley. :p
 

ChronoBound

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Knew the fanboys would be all over me. But whatever I still stand by what I said especially for Ridley. :p
None of the people who disagreed with you are fanboys. I really hope this comment was tongue-in-cheek.
 
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I only have on question... What exactly are you using to judge how important each character is to their franchise?

I mean, after seeing the discussion in this thread for the past few months, I've noticed there is not only a lot of bias in what constitutes importance, but also a lot of conflicting opinions.

How are you avoiding this to make a fair judgement?
 
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