Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[SmashShadow]

That's nice, I really like that, it brought back a nostalgic feeling fro Minish Cap, which is also my favorite Handheld Zelda and my overall 3rd fave in the series, with Majora's Mask and Zelda II being 1st and 2nd.

Thanks! It's funny how I've actually never played a game that he's in but after learning about him(ironically from this forum) I decided to watch all of his fights, make a moveset and became a pretty strong advocate for him.

 

[Frostwraith]

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/09/wii-u-zelda-game-coming-2014/
@3B certainly so, Lil Mac will be one of my mains im positive.

Interesting read there. Biggest Zelda ever? Sounds nice.

Maybe this grand scale can apply to Smash Bros. too, by having highly detailed characters and stages and huge amounts of content.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks! It's funny how I've actually never played a game that he's in but after learning about him(ironically from this forum) I decided to watch all of his fights, make a moveset and became a pretty strong advocate for him.

If you haven't played Minish Cap, I thoroughly recommend it, it's one of the finest games in the series. At the very least emulate it if you have to, you simply cannot miss out on that game. Capcom did a fine job with it.

 

[3Bismyname]

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/09/wii-u-zelda-game-coming-2014/
@3B certainly so, Lil Mac will be one of my mains im positive.

same. and the way i imagine he plays suits my style of gameplay

 

[ChronoBound]

He confirmed the opposite, actually.

http://nintendoeverything.com/80433...nother-zelda-in-the-skyward-sword-worldstyle/

“With Wind Waker, the graphics were suited to handheld gaming. Also the game ended with Link embarking on a journey, so it left open the possibility of what comes after the game. With Skyward Sword, positioning it as the first Zelda game means everything else connects to it and comes after it. It becomes a little bit difficult to do something else within that world and certainly much more difficult to do something that comes before it.”

 

[Diddy Kong]

They never talked about the graphical styles though...

 

[FlareHabanero]

I would actually appreciate there being a power trio between Little Mac, Takamaru, and Lip. Mainly for the sake of making a shout out to Captain Rainbow and to create a team of underdogs fighting for the great of good.

 

[ChronoBound]

They never talked about the graphical styles though...

He was. He was talking about whether there would be another game in the same style as Skyward Sword. He says there probably won't (and due to the poor sales of Skyward Sword in Japan and Europe, it will likely won't).

 

[3Bismyname]

Lip is by far my most wanted retro with the exception of maybe Muddy Mole. they would both offer very unique movesets and both games were so awesome

 

[TheCreator]

Interesting read there. Biggest Zelda ever? Sounds nice.

Maybe this grand scale can apply to Smash Bros. too, by having highly detailed characters and stages and huge amounts of content.

By the sounds of it, this is what sakurai plans to do.


http://mynintendonews.com/2012/12/1...e-soon/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

@Chrono Did you see my link? ZING.....but no really, did you?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My idea Zelda roster is switching Toon Link out with Masked Link, switching TP Ganondorf with Toon Ganondorf(his best appearance characterization-wise), and if an character is added, between Tingle and Vaati. Mainly cause they have their own unique starring roles and don't entirely depend on another character in atleast one game each.

As for types of appearances for Zelda, Sheik, and Link, it's hard to say. Sheik could be redone anyway to match Zelda's current style. Link is whatever the latest "adult" game is.

 

[ChronoBound]

@Chrono Did you see my link? ZING.....but no really, did you?

That link was pretty much from a non-reputable site and "rumors". I have had experience with leaks in the past (regarding Smash Bros.), and I can tell you Nintendo has stuff locked down nowadays like Fort Knox.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I've been interested in Lip lately for some reason. Maybe it's because she looks so adorable and would be a notable contrast with the rest of the characters out there. Also because like stated before, being part of a trio for underdogs alongside Takamaru and Little Mac.

Lip in my opinion should utilize a gimmick involving combos to gain more power with some attacks being inspired by the magical girl genre. Panel de Pon always had that emphasis on preforming combos to crap all over the opponent's plans, so it would make sense in context.

 

[TheCreator]

That link was pretty much from a non-reputable site and "rumors". I have had experience with leaks in the past (regarding Smash Bros.), and I can tell you Nintendo has stuff locked down nowadays like Fort Knox.

Well you arent telling me anything I dont know, but tell me why I should trust your source and not mine.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

I didn't expected that there are many new pages already, so can anyone summary up any rumors or any news that I might missed out for last 20-30 pages.

 

[SmashShadow]

You didn't miss much. Just some extensive Fire Emblem and Zelda debates.

 

[ChronoBound]

I didn't expected that there are many new pages already, so can anyone summary up any rumors or any news that I might missed out for last 20-30 pages.

There was nothing new. I just saved you several hours of your life. No new rumors or any news. Just the same old arguments about the same old topics.

We are now though just five months away from a likely Smash 4 unveil (E3 2013 is five months away now) though.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

You didn't miss much. Just some extensive Fire Emblem and Zelda debates.

There was nothing new. I just saved you several hours of your life. No new rumors or any news. Just the same old arguments about the same old topics.

We are now though just five months away from a likely Smash 4 unveil (E3 2013 is five months away now) though.

Thanks.

Yeah 5 more months. It will be very long ride until we know anything about SSB4 itself.

It will be about 149 days until E3 2013.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Funny that there never really seems to be any intense retro debates, whenever someone brings up a retro it seems everybody likes the character

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Funny that there never really seems to be any intense retro debates, whenever someone brings up a retro it seems everybody likes the character

Problem with me is that I like any retro characters. It don't matter who got in, however I must have Takamaru and Little Mac tho.

 

[3Bismyname]

Retros have way too many good options

 

[ChronoBound]

Found a Japanese article about this story:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/07/masahiro-sakurai-talks-super-smash-bros-4

The character talk in the comment section pretty much consisted of:
- Hope that Mewtwo, Roy, and Pichu get brought back (yeah, there were people asking for Pichu,there was even a lengthy comment about why Pichu deserves to return)
- Hope that (x) character does not get cut.
- Comments that a Tales character should be included (though in all the posts asking for a Tales character, they never mentioned who it should be)
- Lots of people asking for Kid Icarus characters, particularly Palutena and Magnus (heck, I even saw a post asking for Amazon Pandora).

That is pretty much it.

Oh the Japanese author to the article commented on possible third-party newcomers for Smash 4, and said that Pac-Man was a strong possibility.

 

[Dark Phazon]

This thread will evolve during the whole time up untill the games released. This threads awsome so much activity.

 

[TheCreator]

I severely hope Pacman gets in. With his new design, from pacman party.
It seems likely, being that Namco Bandai will be doing blah blah blah. But a tales or tekken character would seemingly be horrible

 

[Diddy Kong]

Personally, am not keen on any third party character, unless it comea from Rare. Banjo-Kazooie or Conker mostly. I am basically opposed to all other 3rd party additions, much like I was pre-Brawl. I didn't even want Sonic in, and was pretty opposed to his inclusion. Didn't really like Snake much either at first, warmed up to him later a bit.

 

[TheCreator]

Personally, am not keen on any third party character, unless it comea from Rare. Banjo-Kazooie or Conker mostly. I am basically opposed to all other 3rd party additions, much like I was pre-Brawl. I didn't even want Sonic in, and was pretty opposed to his inclusion. Didn't really like Snake much either at first, warmed up to him later a bit.

Im like that too, except with icons. To see mario, pacman, and sonic duke it out would be awesome for the sole fact that they represent something bigger than themselves, ya know?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Somewhat. I feel characters as DK and Link are actually much more iconic than Pacman, but to each his will. Am not quite as opposed to Pacman as other 3rd party characters but damn, would I have prefered Mewtwo and Roy over Sonic in Brawl...

 

[TheCreator]

Well I mean. Pacman comes all the way from ruling arcades and such back in those days, and I feel he'd rep that. But yeah I'd have preferred mewtwo over sonic too.

 

[PSIguy89]

So my fellow smash bros, i have a question for all of you! if YOU were sakurai sitting down with your team, going over the new roster and stages what would you primarily use as a basis for who/what made it in? popularity or relevance? or if both would you favor one over the other? im really curious to know what each of you thinks? how fun would it be to have that oppertunity?! anyways i look forward to your replies!!!!

 

[3Bismyname]

it kind of depends on the series in question. for example Pokemon mostly functions on a popularity aspect cause (to a certain degree) any Pokemon is as relevant as any other. But when talking about Zelda i'd use the relevancy argument. i'd also want to keep the roster as fair as possible in the sense that a series like Mario should have more characters than Star Fox.

 

[SmashShadow]

Personally I would go off a combination of both. They'd have to be a prominent member from their series(meaning no one shot chars) and the most popular and deserving from that list would be picked.

 

[Frostwraith]

I think both importance and popularity are factors.

Much like what 3Bismyname said, the Pokémon species themselves are equals in terms of importance, making popularity an important factor. This is why we got Pikachu and Jigglypuff in SSB.

I could even make a list of franchise characters by importance (with popularity as a factor), so if anyone wants to know, please tell me.

 

[Deleted member]

I would look at gameplay first and formost and give priority to characters that bring forth the most interesting ideas. Second, I would look for roster diversity, trying to bring forth a variety a different faces that stand out and pique interest.

Popularity is the last thing I'd care about. After all I'm the director and its my game and vision. In order to make it successful it is best to ignore arbitrary demands and popularity contests as they can impede progresz in the most important aspect of a fighter, the gameplay.

This is assuming I was in charge of the project. For me, unique, diverse and balanced roster takes priorty over anything else.

 

[Frostwraith]

[...]

Popularity is the last thing I'd care about. After all I'm the director and its my game and vision. In order to make it successful it is best to ignore arbitrary demands and popularity contests as they can impede progresz in the most important aspect of a fighter, the gameplay.

[...]

For the kind of game Smash Bros. is, that's a selfish perception of a director's job.

After all, a Smash Bros. game is a mascot fighter. People pick up the game to play as the characters and beat the crap out of the others, so they must find which characters appeal to the fanbase(s) who would buy the game.

If gameplay was solely the factor, the roster could leave out popular characters like Pikachu. If you want an example on how popularity matters in SSB, look no further than the Pokémon franchise.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think both importance and popularity are factors.

Much like what 3Bismyname said, the Pokémon species themselves are equals in terms of importance, making popularity an important factor. This is why we got Pikachu and Jigglypuff in SSB.

I could even make a list of franchise characters by importance (with popularity as a factor), so if anyone wants to know, please tell me.

Would be cool.

Though, I predict just about everyone will get upset in one way or another with the placement of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem characters.

THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS ROLL ROUND HERE.

About popularity vs relevance: it's a mather of which weights more in which case. Some characters from some series might be more popular than some other, but perphaps the inclusion of 'that other character' in Smash would bring 'that other character' in a much better position. Only REAL popular choices should make it in, say the likes of Ridley and K.Rool. The rest imo should be based on relevance, moveset potential, uniqueness, and of coarse if they can make the character well liked in the end by everyone. Popularity is more or less based on how the character plays in Smash anyway. See : Mewtwo. Everyone loves the character, yet nobody plays as him. Opposites : Melee Marth and Melee Sheik.

 

[Frostwraith]

@Diddy Kong: will try to do that list. Will take a while, since I have research to do, but I think it will contribute to the discussion. So, look forward to that!

 

[Diddy Kong]

No problem if it takes long, people generally like those kind of lists round here. At least, if they are not busy trolling each other, or disregarding one's ideas.

 

[ChronoBound]

Would be cool.
The rest imo should be based on relevance, moveset potential, uniqueness, and of coarse if they can make the character well liked in the end by everyone. Popularity is more or less based on how the character plays in Smash anyway. See : Mewtwo. Everyone loves the character, yet nobody plays as him.

Those two are really subjective. Every serious speculator laughs at those two things. Anything can be unique or have "moveset potential" with enough creativity. Just look at ROB, if I went around during pre-Brawl talking up how it would be "unique" and have "moveset potential" everyone would have laughed at me. I even made a stunning de-cloned moveset for Dr. Mario to prove that any character could be turned into something creative and unique if there is enough creativity involved.

On the second point, lots of people played as Mewtwo, but you would not know it because it was mostly non-competitive players. Heck, I have known people who loved using Pichu too. Just because a character is not used much within tournaments (which is tier-based) does not mean that outside of that they are not used much. Non-competitive players are 95% of the Smash Bros. fanbase.

 

[Deleted member]

If you've ever played Jump Ultimate Stars or Dream Mix Tv Fighters (or whatever it's called) you would know that simply having popular faces isn't enough to make a game good and make a game sell. On the surface SSB simply seems like a mascot game, but it's much more than that. The game has much more depth than you're giving it credit, and was honestly made successful thanks to its addicting game play.

It may seem like a selfish decision to you, but the fact that the fanbase ignores the simple facts mentioned above prove that few of them know anything about game design or about what makes this game tick.

What I'm saying is that rather than adding Waluigi, Mewtwo or Roy because they're popular, or adding PacMan or Chrom or the Gen 6 Pokemon because they're relevant, I'm going to look at all the available choices and see what each one had thats unique or interesting in regard to gameplay. Sure, popular choices will still get in, but so will obscure ones, thus leading to many pleasant surprises. You are an artist, and the game is your canvas. Call it selfish if you like, but it is you responsibility as a designer to find inspiration in the characters you choose and to make them in such a way that the players can find the same passion you did for the characters you picked. This is the mentality any successful game designer needs to have.

This means no clones, no shortcuts, no halfasses work.

Every character is very unique and interesting in their own right because they are different down to the smallest details.

 

[ChronoBound]

What I'm saying is that rather than adding Waluigi, Mewtwo or Roy because they're popular, or adding PacMan or Chrom or the Gen 6 Pokemon because they're relevant, I'm going to look at all the available choices and see what each one had thats unique or interesting in regard to gameplay. Sure, popular choices will still get in, but so will obscure ones, thus leading to many pleasant surprises. You are an artist, and the game is your canvas. Call it selfish if you like, but it is you responsibility as a designer to find inspiration in the characters you choose and to make them in such a way that the players can find the same passion you did for the characters you picked. This is the mentality any successful game designer needs to have.

The problem is that what is unique and what is not is very, very subjective. Most people don't have the same opinions as you, so would most likely come up with very different ideas from you based on the whole "unique" and "artistic" idea. Only a narcissist believes that all brilliant minds think the same as him/herself.

What if Sakurai came up with a compelling and amazing moveset for Waluigi for example that was inspired from his personality and devious persona? I bet no doubt you would be howling, despite the character being creative. I bet you would be howling even more if Sakurai made inventive new movesets for Mewtwo, Roy, and dare I say it, even Dr. Mario.

Also, the attacking of clones is very dumb. In Japan, I have yet to see any whining about clones. Sakurai puts a lot of personality into all of his characters that he designs, even for pathetic clones like Pichu. A character like Pichu still receives a lot of love despite being purposedly made to be awful and being an objectively worse version of Pikachu? Why? Because Sakurai puts something into his characters that most people who design fighters do not: Charm.