Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[SmashShadow]

A staff that casts magic only is not the same as a primarily combative staff.

Wait, which staff are we talking about here? XD

And I highly doubt that if they give either of these characters a staff that they won't be used for both purposes. I mean, could you imagine them carrying their staff around and not using them offensively but rather only using kicks and punches/slaps.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Marth, Chrom, Ike and Roy is also the most likely case, IF we'd get 4 characters in the first place. I think it's not guranteed yet Roy will return. And it's not like I hate him either. I enjoyed FE6, and would like to see what sort of changes he'd have from Melee.

But still, can't help thinking Lyn would be more unique. But Roy is likelier, as I said before if you read all.

It all depends on how many characters will be in. If they gonna cut characters, be prepared to not see Roy in this one. As we'd then already be lucky to have Ike.

Look at it from ALL prespectives.

I think Ike's moves where nicely done, in animation. They are very in-character, but the way they work is another thing...

 

[Arcadenik]

No, ManlySpirit, I really think Slippy Toad would be another Fox clone. He doesn't have anything unique going for him that makes him any different from Fox, Falco, and Wolf except for the fact he is a frog... and being a frog would mean he is a Fox clone who jumps higher than Fox and he gets a green Landmaster.

 

[ChronoBound]

Krystal would indeed also be good for a 4th StarFox character, and easily be unique. But I doubt they'll add anorher StarFox character, so I think she won't ever make it. Especially since the last StarFox game was 64. Again...

Palutena would also have a staff yeah. So that also hinders Krystal.

Krystal could probably make Smash 5 if Star Fox gets a resurrection title is received well both critically and in sales (that's assuming Krystal is not retconned out of existence). However, she is still possible for Smash 4, though she is unlikely. She is basically in the same boat as Waddle Dee (Bandanna).
- Both became prominent after the series high-point (Star Fox 64 for Star Fox, Kirby Superstar for Kirby).
- Both within the Top 10 for a particular territory (Japan for Waddle Dee, West for Krystal, little interest in Japan for Krystal, little interest in the West for Waddle Dee).
- Both have pointy sticks.
- Both have the problem that much of the Smash Bros. fanbase does not want any more newcomers for their respective series.
- Both have a lot of haters (though I think Waddle Dee would probably be faring better if more people in the West bought Return to Dream Land).

Though in Krystal's favor, the only two female characters that have better chances than her at this point are Palutena and Dixie Kong.

 

[Ember Reaper]

I still don't see how Lucina and Lyn are argued as being on par with Roy... Baffling.
If a character of fire emblem gets in it would make sense if it is the main character and only the main character. In Awakeneing, that is Chrom. Done, Chrom stands above Lucina, and for sake of argument Roy is also a main character so Roy = Chrom > Lucina. Little chance.
Now for Lyn, she's a main character so in theory Roy = Chrom = Lyn from that. However, Ike and Marth are main characters so the above 3 = Marth = Ike in theory. Now when Brawl came out Marth and Ike got precedence so Marth = Ike > than the 3. But hold on Lyn is an assist trophy so she gets precedence above the rest? (I'll drop Chrom for now because he wasnt around at the time.) so in theory:
Marth = Ike > Lyn > Roy? wait hold on Roy was planned for Brawl as a character and characters are higher precedence than ATs:
Marth = Ike > Roy > Lyn
oh and popularity Roy definately tops both Lyn and Chrom... With lyn not appearing on popularitys pollls much from what I know in respect to fire emblem...
Roy > Chrom > Lyn > Lucina
... yeah... Roy isnt equal to Lucina and Lyn...

And for Krystal I don't think she will get in and I don't particularly want her. But she would be interesting. Doubts on inclusion.

@3B haha

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa is likelier than Krystal I feel actually at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

It all depends on how many characters will be in. If they gonna cut characters, be prepared to not see Roy in this one. As we'd then already be lucky to have Ike.

Look at it from ALL prespectives.

This is the way I feel about things as well, I certainly hope Ike comes back, but properly redone. The fact that Roy and Mewtwo were cut from the roster already works against them, especially when in contrast to possible cuts like Lucas and Toon Link and Snake. Roy getting in over Ike now, is an impossibility. Roy, imo is only getting in if we get 4 slots for FE, which is very unlikely with Zelda possibly getting 3 slots.

I think Ike's moves where nicely done, in animation. They are very in-character, but the way they work is another thing...

They were well built, minus counter, he doesn't need that move. Eruption should be his 'counter.' Just buff the hit-stun resistance on it. His 5B should be a Hand-Axe tossed like a Boomerang. They were poorly executed though, just make him a Bulky Badass like Berserk's Guts. A dude who can take punishment real well and dishes out mean damage.

 

[TheCreator]

Lyn is an Assist Thropy in Brawl and one of the very few actual Fire Emblem throphies. I think she does have a chance for a 4th spot.

A chance, she does have. But Roy was planned for brawl even. So to say that another fire emblem rep would get in before him seems to me very unlikely.



Also, it infuriates me how zelda doesnt have a clear new rep. When its so obvious that a series like Loz is going to get a new representative, it's so unclear who its going to be.

 

[FlareHabanero]

At this point Bandanna Dee is more likeable then Krystal as a whole, it's just that people think that essentially including a minion onto the roster would be lame.

Spear was a cool ability, which probably contributed to people liking him to the point of being a dark horse character.

 

[Arcadenik]

A chance, she does have. But Roy was planned for brawl even. So to say that another fire emblem rep would get in before him seems to me very unlikely.

Yes, but I think it was as a last-minute re-addition. Ike was new therefore he had priority over Roy. That's why I believe that in SSB4, Chrom will have priority over Ike, who will still have priority over Roy... and Ike and Roy are likely going to be last-minute re-additions if Sakurai needs to buff the roster after he added all the characters he wanted to include since the beginning of SSB4's development period.

 

[SmashShadow]

Didn't Sakurai say something about a projectile making Ike OP so he took it out of his design though?

 

[ChronoBound]

At this point Bandanna Dee is more likeable then Krystal as a whole, it's just that people think that essentially including a minion onto the roster would be lame.

Spear was a cool ability, which probably contributed to people liking him more.

Yeah. Like I said Waddle Dee would be more popular in the West if Return to Dream Land sold better here (it sold extremely well in Japan, outselling Skyward Sword even).

Since it got lost on the previous page, I will repeat it here:
Krystal is basically in the same boat as Waddle Dee (Bandanna).
- Both became prominent after the series high-point (Star Fox 64 for Star Fox, Kirby Superstar for Kirby).
- Both within the Top 10 for a particular territory (Japan for Waddle Dee, West for Krystal, little interest in Japan for Krystal, little interest in the West for Waddle Dee).
- Both have pointy sticks.
- Both have the problem that much of the Smash Bros. fanbase does not want any more newcomers for their respective series.
- Both have a lot of haters (though I think Waddle Dee would probably be faring better if more people in the West bought Return to Dream Land).

However, I would say Waddle Dee (Bandanna) has the advantage of not having an uncertain future like Krystal has (both for the Star Fox series and Krystal's continued existence within it). Other than that they are pretty much mirrors of each other.

Though in Krystal's favor, the only two female characters that have better chances than her at this point are Palutena and Dixie Kong.

 

[TheCreator]

Yes, but I think it was as a last-minute re-addition. Ike was new therefore he had priority over Roy. That's why I believe that in SSB4, Chrom will have priority over Ike, who will still have priority over Roy... and Ike and Roy are likely going to be last-minute re-additions if Sakurai needs to buff the roster after he added all the characters he wanted to include since the beginning of SSB4's development period.

But if he is true to what he says in his interviews, last minute buffing wont be needed. He says hes taking his time and making what he planned to from the begining.

 

[TheCreator]

Though in Krystal's favor, the only two female characters that have better chances than her at this point are Palutena and Dixie Kong.

How do you reckon Dixie Kong?

 

[ChronoBound]

Didn't Sakurai say something about a projectile making Ike OP so he took it out of his design though?

Ike originally had the Ragnell's shockwave as his neutral special. However, Sakurai said this made Ike too unbalanced, so he removed it. The theory is that Eruption originally belonged to a Luigi-fied Roy, and Sakurai gave Eruption to Ike after Roy had been cut and Ike's projectile deemed to make Ike overpowered.

 

[3Bismyname]

How do you reckon Dixie Kong?

planned for brawl and is still pretty high in polls.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ohh yeah all forgot about Ike's Eruption. THAT was something I did not agree on with Sakurai. For all I care it indeed replaces his Counter, but he should have blue flames as in Project M now.

But would like the ranged slash (RD blue 'laser') as his new B. Make it somewhat slower if they have to. And even a little weak (think of R.O.B's B but after exhaustion) but Ike needs something to put pressure with! He shouldn't be so easily to approach, and should indeed be able to take more hits.

I hope they improve Aether a lot to, and make it more flashy. I liked Manly's idea as well of giving him both his axe Urvan and his Ragnell use a duo slash with his Forward Smash to, but make it a double hit even (axe would have even stronger knockback) thus slightly buffing the move. Ike should be DANGEROUS.

 

[Deleted member]

No, ManlySpirit, I really think Slippy Toad would be another Fox clone. He doesn't have anything unique going for him that makes him any different from Fox, Falco, and Wolf except for the fact he is a frog... and being a frog would mean he is a Fox clone who jumps higher than Fox and he gets a green Landmaster.

Oh, God the Horror!!

Actually, I've seen some neat ideas for him on 4chan, involving the use of his wrench as he's the engineer, and being a focused Trap Laying character with a variety of inventions. But then again, given Sakurai's preference for clones over unique ideas, it's more likely he'd get in as you suggest, so I digress.

A chance, she does have. But Roy was planned for brawl even. So to say that another fire emblem rep would get in before him seems to me very unlikely.



Also, it infuriates me how zelda doesnt have a clear new rep. When its so obvious that a series like Loz is going to get a new representative, it's so unclear who its going to be.

Well, Zelda could just Lose a rep... I mean, it happened to Mario from Melee to Brawl because there was not clear cut replacement for the Clone.

As for Lyn, she could get in over Roy if she gathers enough popularity, after all they're both equally irrelevant to the series, with Lyn being arguably less so due to her significance to the western FE fanbase, but that's a topic I'm not touching with a 10-foot pole. Lyn as mentioned before also has the benefit of having a better and more unique fighting style than Roy. But really, all of that is irrelevant by now, as Lyn getting more popular than Roy in time for the games release is an impossibility, and Roy himself getting in is already rather difficult.

@Ember Reaper
Read above...


Anyway, I hate how Lyn discussion once again turned into a flurry of arguments on whether she has a chance of getting in or not and the usual FE-related ****storm surrounding Roy, as that was not my intention. I think it's pretty clear to everyone she's got a low chance, a chance nonetheless, but still minuscule.

I simply wanted to showcase what a cool and interesting character she'd be IF she got in.

 

[Diddy Kong]

To further justify the use of Ike's ranged attacks, make the shockwave only hit the ground, so that aerials would be a good way to counter Ike with doing this attack.

If Zelda loses Toon Link we SHOULD really have a separate Impa to buff the overall Zelda roster cause really, I can't see K.Rool getting in if Zelda has a mere 3 character roster....

 

[ChronoBound]

How do you reckon Dixie Kong?

planned for brawl and is still pretty high in polls.

3B puts its briefly but I will elaborate a bit more.

- Planned for Brawl (Sakurai at the very least already has an understanding of her animations and how she would move and least some of her attacks)
- Popular all over the world.
- Important to her series.
- DKC2 and DKC3 were both within the Top 10 best-selling Super Nintendo games (heck, DKC3 sold two million copies in just Japan alone, to give you an idea on how high that number is, that is how much Brawl sold in Japan alone).

 

[Arcadenik]

Also, it infuriates me how zelda doesnt have a clear new rep. When its so obvious that a series like Loz is going to get a new representative, it's so unclear who its going to be.

Yeah, for Zelda series, we have these possible but likely choices: Impa, Ghirahim, and Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik Tetra, and one wild card Tingle. Personally, I would love this Zelda roster:

Link (Skyward Sword design)
Zelda (Skyward Sword design, gets a new Down+B)
Impa (Skyward Sword design)
Ganondorf (Wind Waker design, dual swords FTW)
Tingle (mix of Wind Waker and Rosy Rupeeland designs)

 

[TheCreator]

planned for brawl and is still pretty high in polls.

Source

Well, Zelda could just Lose a rep... I mean, it happened to Mario from Melee to Brawl because there was not clear cut replacement for the Clone.

Yes but unlike Dr. Mario, Toon Link is still relavent.

 

[SmashShadow]

Yeah, for Zelda series, we have these possible but likely choices: Impa, Ghirahim, and Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik Tetra, and one wild card Tingle. Personally, I would love this Zelda roster:

Link (Skyward Sword design)
Zelda (Skyward Sword design)
Impa (Skyward Sword design)
Ganondorf (Wind Waker design)
Tingle (mix of Wind Waker and Rosy Rupeeland designs)

I want Vaati!

 

[Diddy Kong]

To justify Impa even more: Toon Zelda & Toon 'Sheik'. If those where indeed becoming playable, or where seriously considered why shouldn't they continue this idea with Impa? Wolf was planned before, King Dedede was planned, Mewtwo, planned, Bowser, planned, Pokemon Trainer, planned even Pit... See where I'm getting?

Impa is a viable female new addition to Smash, and shouldn't be ruled out as possible.

 

[3Bismyname]

personally i do kinda wanna see Toon Zelda/ Tetra or Sheik whatever. either that or Skull Kid. i dont care for Ghirahim and im more or less indifferent to Impa. Tingle could be fun though lol

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Manly: My point too. And who knew you'd prove it even more in that light? This is why I see Manly as a reasonably good speculator rather than a "Lyn-fanboy."

I again look forward at her in positive light in means of Smash since she's still an Assist. It might get anywhere from there at this point.

 

[Arcadenik]

I want Vaati!

I want Vaati, too! But he's not in any recent Zelda games lately except for that Four Swords Anniversary Edition for the DS back in 2011... and it was only as his eyeball monster form. At least The Minish Cap was one of 3DS Ambassador games so that's something...

 

[ChronoBound]

To justify Impa even more: Toon Zelda & Toon 'Sheik'. If those where indeed becoming playable, or where seriously considered why shouldn't they continue this idea with Impa? Wolf was planned before, King Dedede was planned, Mewtwo, planned, Bowser, planned, Pokemon Trainer, planned even Pit... See where I'm getting?

There is no evidence that Wolf and Pokemon Trainer were planned prior to Brawl. This all comes from a NeoGAF user named "cednym" who claimed that information came from an interview Sakurai got from Famitsu. He said he did not have any scans of this though.

He ended up getting banned from NeoGAF (probably for posting information like that and having nothing to back it up).

Until scans surface for this, it should all be taken with a grain of salt.

Right now, the only characters that we know were planned for a Smash Bros. are:

Smash 64:
King Dedede
Bowser
Mewtwo

Brawl:
Mewtwo
Roy
Dr. Mario
Dixie Kong
Toon Zelda
Toon Sheik
Plusle & Minun (though there are some that think pra_mai does not refer to Plusle & Minun)

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I really wish for Vaati too to be in Smash, I just love that character so much. One of my fave villains in Nintendo's games overall.

 

[Arcadenik]

You know what? I'd love for them to replace Toon Link with Vaati... give Toon Link's A moves and Up+B to Vaati... and give Vaati his own special moves and he absolutely has to transform into his eyeball monster form for his Final Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wheren't Wolf and Wario considered for Melee instead of Falco and Dr.Mario though? Or is that that fake rumor you spoke of?

 

[ChronoBound]

Wheren't Wolf and Wario considered for Melee instead of Falco and Dr.Mario though? Or is that that fake rumor you spoke of?

That is all "cednym" information again. He had no source to back it all up and said it came out of Famitsu (of which he said he lost the issue the interview was in). Ended up getting banned.

 

[Frostwraith]

When its so obvious that a series like Loz is going to get a new representative, it's so unclear who its going to be.

what makes you say that? I don't think it's as likely as you think.

Brawl pretty much replaced Young Link with Toon Link (which are basically the same character). Toon Link is technically a newcomer in Brawl, but I hardly think of him as such.

And what Zelda characters can appear anyway that have the same amount of recognition as the main three: Link, Zelda and Ganondorf?

Young Link and Toon Link basically represent Link's younger incarnations, which are more common than adult incarnations.

Sheik is more like part of Zelda's moveset. I don't think she's going anywhere, because that's what makes Zelda stand out from the remaining characters, especially in Melee.

the remaining characters that get requested for Smash are usually secondary villains (who more often than not, happen to be pawns of Ganondorf), like Vaati, Zant or Ghirahim, or other secondary recurring characters (Impa, Tingle) that don't reach the same level of importance than Link, Zelda or Ganon.

a similar situation happens with the Kirby series, by having Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede as much more important characters than the remainder of the characters from the franchise.

EDIT: this thread is moving fast! O_O

 

[SmashShadow]

You know what? I'd love for them to replace Toon Link with Vaati... give Toon Link's A moves and Up+B to Vaati... and give Vaati his own special moves and he absolutely has to transform into his eyeball monster form for his Final Smash.

Vaati doesn't even have a sword though...does he?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I am kind of thankful that we didn't get the 7 cut characters over Sonic. It was a pretty wise decision overall.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That is all "cednym" information again. He had no source to back it all up and said it came out of Famitsu (of which he said he lost the issue the interview was in). Ended up getting banned.

****. It was so believable. With Ganondorf being the last character added and all... Sakurai saying he could've made King Dedede in time of making the clones... I really believed it at some point.

Now I'm even more confused about what caused Melee's roster.

 

[Arcadenik]

Vaati doesn't even have a sword though...does he?

Yes... he does. Why do you think he won that swordfighting contest at the beginning in The Minish Cap?

 

[ChronoBound]

****. It was so believable. With Ganondorf being the last character added and all... Sakurai saying he could've made King Dedede in time of making the clones... I really believed it at some point.

Now I'm even more confused about what caused Melee's roster.

What we do know is that Sakurai was approaching the end of development for Melee, and he felt that Melee's roster was small.

He said he had enough time for six clones or one more original character, and Sakurai felt fans would appreciate the six clones more.

He said he chose Dr. Mario because they already had a music remix from his game made, and he thought a character would go great with that music (I am not sure how much of that is Sakurai though).

As for Ganondorf, Sakurai said that Ganondorf would not have gotten in Melee at all if it were not for the fact that he shared a similar body shape as Captain Falcon.

This is all stuff Sakurai talked about on the Japanese Melee Dojo.

 

[Deleted member]

what makes you say that? I don't think it's as likely as you think.

Brawl pretty much replaced Young Link with Toon Link (which are basically the same character). Toon Link is technically a newcomer in Brawl, but I hardly think of him as such.

And what Zelda characters can appear anyway that have the same amount of recognition as the main three: Link, Zelda and Ganondorf?

Young Link and Toon Link basically represent Link's younger incarnations, which are more common than adult incarnations.

Sheik is more like part of Zelda's moveset. I don't think she's going anywhere, because that's what makes Zelda stand out from the remaining characters, especially in Melee.

the remaining characters that get requested for Smash are usually secondary villains (who more often than not, happen to be pawns of Ganondorf), like Vaati, Zant or Ghirahim, or other secondary recurring characters (Impa, Tingle) that don't reach the same level of importance than Link, Zelda or Ganon.

a similar situation happens with the Kirby series, by having Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede as much more important characters than the remainder of the characters from the franchise.

EDIT: this thread is moving fast! O_O

QFT


On Vaati, I'd love to see him in Smash, shame he's not in any recent games though, he really should be, as he's a more interesting villain than Ganondorf.

@The Creator

Dude, I love your username, it reminds me of that one Yu-Gi-Oh! Card, but it's still rather subtle.

Anyway, what makes you say Toon Link is still relevant? I mean, his last two games were poorly received and he's losing steam in regard to popularity, he represented an era in the Zelda franchise, one that's practically at its end.


Speaking of Zelda, what are the chances of the Triforce Trio donning their OoT appearance rather than the SS one? I mean, OoT3DS came out very recently (after SS I think? Well close to it...), and IT features both Ganondorf (with his preferred appearance) and Sheik, meaning you don't have to cook up a new design for those two nor cut them.

The only problem is that we'll be missing out on Waifu-Zelda, but... Well that could be her Alt. Costume or something.

 

[TheCreator]

what makes you say that? I don't think it's as likely as you think.

Brawl pretty much replaced Young Link with Toon Link (which are basically the same character). Toon Link is technically a newcomer in Brawl, but I hardly think of him as such.

And what Zelda characters can appear anyway that have the same amount of recognition as the main three: Link, Zelda and Ganondorf?

Young Link and Toon Link basically represent Link's younger incarnations, which are more common than adult incarnations.

Sheik is more like part of Zelda's moveset. I don't think she's going anywhere, because that's what makes Zelda stand out from the remaining characters, especially in Melee.

the remaining characters that get requested for Smash are usually secondary villains (who more often than not, happen to be pawns of Ganondorf), like Vaati, Zant or Ghirahim, or other secondary recurring characters (Impa, Tingle) that don't reach the same level of importance than Link, Zelda or Ganon.

a similar situation happens with the Kirby series, by having Kirby, Meta Knight and King Dedede as much more important characters than the remainder of the characters from the franchise.

EDIT: this thread is moving fast! O_O

Because LoZ is still a growing series that has gotten a new rep every game so far. Who's to say it will stop now? Then again. You are right about the toon link/ young link thing.

But theres always the chance that we get a Majoras Mask 3D and Skull Kid is relavent again. That was very much the case of pokemon in my roster,
I put the pokemon trainer with 6th gen pokemon, then expecting RSE remakes for 3ds I added Deoxys.

@ManlySpirit Well I only say hes still relavent because his series is an alternate future entirely than the regular link according to the official zelda timeline.
And thank you, If only you knew why I was called that. haha