Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[SmashShadow]

After seeing this, I starting to actually warm up to the idea of Bomber Man in Smash as the new Konami rep since they still own him despite Hudson's "death".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5M1dXwmPwg

BTW, I can't wait to play as him tomorrow on SSF2.

Personally, I wish there was gameplay video. I searched everywhere for some but that seems to be the only video. I didn't even get to see the jet pack in action

Spoiler

 

[8-peacock-8]

Personally, I wish there was gameplay video. I searched everywhere for some but that seems to be the only video. I didn't even get to see the jet pack in action

Spoiler

I think that was because the old Up B for that Bomberman was dropping a bomb under him to launch himself back to the stage. (I always thought that was a half ***ed idea for a Bomberman up special. The jet pack is better anyway. lol)

So anyway....how about dem Pac-Mans?

 

[lobotheduck21]

Imagine if Nintendo bought Hudson instead of konami, we would all be saying bomber would be a lock

 

[Deleted member]

So, I've reworked Lyn's specials and drew some gestures to give people an idea of what I visualize. I figured I'd debut it here before updating the Lyn thread to give encourage people to do something similar, and also try and garner some excitement/support for this character.

At the very least I can give an example of what I look for in this character so that it pushes aside the idea that "she'd be like Marth," or "she'd be like Takamaru."

It seems to be just in time too, as you guys seemed to be having a Lyn/Takamaru discussion not too long ago.

Anyway, as I was discussing with Habanero a couple days ago. The biggest difference between Takamaru and Lyn is their sword styles. Now this may not seem like a big deal, but it's actually a very large difference, it's like comparing Boxing to Tae-Kwon Do almost.

Takamaru is more of a Kendo-School user, where the movements are calculated and controlled, and the sword is always drawn. Kendo in general is more focused on actual combat. Lyn on the other hand uses what seems to be a derivation of Battoujutsu. If you've ever watched or read Ruroni Kenshin, you'll remember that Battoujutsu was a killing art, it did NOT focus on combat, it was a swift killing technique focused on ending combat as soon as possible. Battoujutsu is a derivation of Iaido/Iaijutsu, the key distinction in this style is that the sword is always sheathed, and is drawn in very swift and accurate movements, only to be sheathed again.

Now with that in mind, this is how I built Lyn's character and combat strategy. Like I said, Battoujutsu is not focused on Combat itself, but on killing enemies quickly, this is essentially her playstyle. She's light weight and suffers from frail defenses, however, her speed and offense are insane, being the fastest sword user in the game, literally vanishing during a lot of her attacks as well as during her rolls, and being equipped with very good pokes and killing moves. The key to using her is managing her distance properly and using her vanishing ability to mix up her opponents and set them up for lethal combos. However, this comes at a price as her range is rather short for a sword user, and she must place herself in harms way to do good damage and knockback. As a compensation for this and her low defenses she comes equipped with hands down the best and most complex Counter in the game.

Specials:

[COLLAPSE="Standard B: Counter"]

As I said, the best counter in the game, it comes out much faster than Marth's however, the timing is a bit more tricky, you have to be skilled in order to use this. Like all counters, she's invincible when DOING the counter. Also, in addition to using this technique, you have the opportunity to follow up with one of 4 commands, each one doing something different.

-Not doing a command will cause her to parry her opponent's attack and leave them open to a counter attack, she sets them up at her sweetspot, but does practically no damage doing this (1%-2%).

-Pressing A right after she counters her opponent's attack will cause her to counter attack with a rapid slash, it does decent damage (13%-17%) and knockback allowing you to pursue your opponents.

-If you instead choose to press B, Lyn will vanish and appear behind her opponent and slash them with a powerful slash, this is a very quick move, however, the slight delay does allow your opponent some time to block if they see it coming, this is where the mind games come in as this is MUCH more powerful attack than the A variation, doing 16%-21% damage and very good knockback, still not quite a killing move, but at high damages it just might earn you a KO.

-Your final option is pressing Jump and any direction (or no direction), with which Lyn will vanish and reappear a short distance away in the direction you pressed. She doesn't cover mush ground with this, but enough for evasive maneuvers. This is essentially her defense against Powerful Ranged Attacks and Explosives, but it can also be used for mind games.

Now, in addition to all this, whiffing Lyn's counter has less delay than Marth's, Peach's, Ike's or even Meta Knight's. This is done due to how tricky the timing can be on it (about as tricky as Hakumen's drive), but she's still open to a counter-attack from quick attacks. Also, her counter works on everything from attacks to projectiles to command grabs (like Bowser's Side B), not Normal Grabs (Z/Shield+A) though.[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Side B: Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki (someone more creative can rename this)"]

She pushes the ground with her front foot and vanishes appearing a certain distance from her starting location. It has much less range than Fox's Illusion, but it is an effective killing move. She only attacks if she catches an opponent with it, so outside of that, it's an OK recovery move as it can also be used in mid-air. It has landing lag on both occasion, but double if she attacks, and the knockback only happens when she sheathes her sword having a delayed effect, so she DOES leave herself exposed to attack for a bit, but you have to be quick.[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="UpB: Secret Technique: 15 Lethal Strikes"]

She kicks off the ground doing a high leap. If she catches an opponent with it, she'll stop at their height and draw her sword, the moment it's drawn, they're immobilized and she does 15 rapid strikes at their weak points, each strike does 1%-3% damage, the last strike having heavy knockback. After that, she falls like every other character.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="DownB: Suio-ryu Iai Kenpou"]

She draws her sword and does a rapid slash. This move is delay-able allowing her to concentrate, thus increasing the damage, knockback and range a bit. The high angle of the move makes it a good Anti-Air move, and the fact that you can delay it makes for good mindgames. You can only delay it for a maximum of 2 seconds.[/COLLAPSE]

The rest of her moves are found here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=329084

However, I've made some changes.

Her Nair is a spike, it's still the same move, but it's been given an additional property, however it's more risky than other meteors.

DownTitl has been changed from a kick, to a move where she stabs her opponent's foot with her sword. It is a good poke with decent speed and hits low, it also causes opponents to bounce upon getting hit.

As I said before, she vanishes during her rolls, similar to how Slayer in GG vanishes during his dashes, this adds to her unpredictability. She has some of the fastest attack speed in the game, and the fastest running speed out of all the sword users. She has fast fall speed, and about as much jumping height as Marth. She mostly excels on the ground, as her aerials are rather weak compared to other sword users, except for her Dair which makes for mad combos. Also, Takamaru and Lyn are the only sword users who can deflect some projectiles by slashing at them with their sword, this especially helps Lyn a bit who's most vulnerable to ranged opponents.

Anyway, tell me what you think. I plan on making more of these for other characters. I wanna do one for Lyn's Neutrals and Airs, but I also wanna work on one for Ike and one for Link, as I wanna rebuild Link to make him play like GG's and BB's Ky and Jin.

 

[PSIguy89]

Dude that is some awesome stuff right there! Very well thought out! keep it coming brah

 

[Big-Cat]

Once again, Manly, you leave me absolutely impressed. This has to be one of the most indepth and high quality movesets I've seen for a character ever. I thought my Krystal one was good, but you take the flan. I want to see what you've envisioned with Link. Hopefully, you'll give arrows more prominence.

I love characters with evasive maneuvers, hence my playstyle tends to be very "trollish". And your drawings are great. I need to get better with my crappy drawings. I wanna do stuff like this!

 

[8-peacock-8]

Imagine if Nintendo bought Hudson instead of konami, we would all be saying bomber would be a lock

He would have been perfect.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Manly your pissing me off! Why aren't you working on SSB4!?

 

[Deleted member]

Glad you guys liked it, I'll try to work on Ike's and Link's... soon. I got exams at the end of this month, so I should probably get to studying for them. Anyway, the idea is that someone good at programming gets wind of these and decides to do a PSA for her around these as I'm absolute **** at programming.

I've said it before, even if she got in Smash, she wouldn't have all these complex mechanics and stuff... so yeah. Hahaha.

But yeah, these are great practice for gestures, and rather fun to make, I wanna make videos of these ideas in the future. Like character profiles taking all these things into consideration.


As for Link, yeah, I'm basing him off of Ky and Jin, so his arrows definitely get an upgrade, he also get's a Magic meter for all of his attacks that builds up when he hits opponents (like in Zelda, killing enemies causes them to drop magic potions). I'm debating what to do with the Boomerang, I kinda wanna make his SideB the Longshot, and have it behave like Hazama's Drive, but at the same time, I could do that for his grab...

 

[Big-Cat]

If you're going for Zelda X Arcsys, then Zelda needs to be a mix of Rachel, Dizzy, and Mu-12.

If I was actually good at programming, I might be able to do it, but I'm only good at coming up with the logic and spotting the commonalities needed to be identified for writing the code.

 

[Deleted member]

If you're going for Zelda X Arcsys, then Zelda needs to be a mix of Rachel, Dizzy, and Mu-12.

If I was actually good at programming, I might be able to do it, but I'm only good at coming up with the logic and spotting the commonalities needed to be identified for writing the code.

Yeah, I know NOTHING about code... Well, I know the logic behind it and how it works, but I can't work much with it, not enough for PSAs.

I've been giving Zelda some thought. The Triforce Trio needs a lot of work, the idea is to give all 3 of them a Magic meter, that'd be the Zelda Gimmick (except for Sheik as she's a ninja). But yeah, Dizzy and Mu-12 are a good reference point. I don't normally play ranged characters (except for Mu-12), so I need some time to think about it.

Link is easy though, he's the second most iconic character in the game, the Ky to Mario's Sol. And the fact that they're both sword users makes it even more interesting.

 

[TheCreator]

I havent been on this forum in years, but with the promising future nintendo is hinting at, i just had to return(:
So guys. Dillon from dillons rolling western. Nintendo's newest IP, which seems to be exactly the character sakurai was looking for. Currently only staring in a single game that was for the 3DS eShop, doesnt make his chances look too stunning. But the fact that a trademark for "The Last Ranger" was made for japan and america by nintendo, means that dillion is likely getting a sequel.
The last ranger is a name given to dillon at the end of dillions rolling western with a sequel hint.

 

[Deleted member]

I havent been on this forum in years, but with the promising future nintendo is hinting at, i just had to return(:
So guys. Dillon from dillons rolling western. Nintendo's newest IP, which seems to be exactly the character sakurai was looking for. Currently only staring in a single game that was for the 3DS eShop, doesnt make his chances look too stunning. But the fact that a trademark for "The Last Ranger" was made for japan and america by nintendo, means that dillion is likely getting a sequel.
The last ranger is a name given to dillon at the end of dillions rolling western with a sequel hint.

I really like his character design, just because of that alone I'd like to see him get in.

 

[SmashShadow]

I think that was because the old Up B for that Bomberman was dropping a bomb under him to launch himself back to the stage. (I always thought that was a half ***ed idea for a Bomberman up special. The jet pack is better anyway. lol)

So anyway....how about dem Pac-Mans?

I think the jet pack was always apart of his moveset but he just hadn't added their model in at the time of the video seeing as this was before it was officially released. The bomb hop thing is actually used by pressing neutral b in the air. But to think this is only a beta...

I know he's not that likely for smash but he's definitely my most wanted 3rd party.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Dillon I wouldn't mind being included, but I'm not expecting it to happen. In particular I'd imagine him being the power counterpart to Sonic.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

@ Lyn Moveset: This is just too good Manly. Very capturing and full of potential, just very good. (And you ain't bad of a drawer either) You better hit Make Your Move in these boards sometime soon.

This is definitely what I could envision of Lyn's way of battling. (-lv<)

 

[FlareHabanero]

So, why exactly does Lyn get so much praise anyway? I'm honestly at a lost here.

 

[ChronoBound]

So, why exactly does Lyn get so much praise anyway? I'm honestly at a lost here.

Because she's physically attractive and a lord in the first Fire Emblem to be released stateside (idiots think she is the most important lord in that game, when in actuality she is probably the most insignificant lord in the entire series). In Japan, she is the least popular of the FE7 lords.

Here is even an official character poll that was done in Japan for FE7:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/ae7j/k_tohyo/index.html

 

[3Bismyname]

I havent been on this forum in years, but with the promising future nintendo is hinting at, i just had to return(:
So guys. Dillon from dillons rolling western. Nintendo's newest IP, which seems to be exactly the character sakurai was looking for. Currently only staring in a single game that was for the 3DS eShop, doesnt make his chances look too stunning. But the fact that a trademark for "The Last Ranger" was made for japan and america by nintendo, means that dillion is likely getting a sequel.
The last ranger is a name given to dillon at the end of dillions rolling western with a sequel hint.

Dillon is honestly my number one new IP pick. Everything about him is pretty perfect and feels so right for the Nintendo family. I hope he gets that sequel, it'd be a shame to let him die out so quickly.

 

[Deleted member]

So, why exactly does Lyn get so much praise anyway? I'm honestly at a lost here.

I just made this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15230649&postcount=7600

that's why.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Maybe because she was the first lord Westerners were introduced to outside of Smash Bros in FE-series and maybe one of the more notable female lords in FE-series in general. Gotta really love her character and fighting skills as an unit, too. (-lvl-)

 

[ChronoBound]

Maybe because she was the first lord Westerners were introduced to outside of Smash Bros in FE-series and maybe one of the more notable female lords in FE-series in general. Gotta really love her character and fighting skills as an unit, too. (-lvl-)

She is the least notable female lord. Celica was just as much the main lord of FE2 as Alm was, Eirika was just as much the lord of FE8 as Ephraim was, Micaiah pretty much shared FE10 with Ike. Lyn stopped being a lord and important to the plot after FE7's tutorial mode ended.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I could understand that she was the first lord that was seen stateside (discounting Marth and Roy in Melee), so there is some modest significance in there. But the tutorial thing was why I was confused.

 

[TheCreator]

I see for dillon, his smash attacks involving rolling in place as you hold side b, then as you let go he travels a short distance and bashes the opponent but doesnt travel anywhere.
Get my jist? And is Lyn going to be in FE:A?

 

[ChronoBound]

Get my jist? And is Lyn going to be in FE:A?

All the lords will be in FE13. All of the lords except Sigurd, Eliwood, and Hector received re-designs as well.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Roy's redesign was pretty much the only redesign that got any praise and Ike's design is pretty despised. Maybe it's because of the quality for the artwork varying due to each one being made by a different artist.

 

[TheCreator]

I was aware of the redesigns, just not the vast population, gosh thats alot. Im excited.
But do you expect fire emblem to get five reps? Because im expecting of course Krom, Then Marth and Ike, and Roy to return logically before any newcomers appear.
Check out my roster as well

 

[Big-Cat]

Because she's physically attractive and a lord in the first Fire Emblem to be released stateside (idiots think she is the most important lord in that game, when in actuality she is probably the most insignificant lord in the entire series). In Japan, she is the least popular of the FE7 lords.

Here is even an official character poll that was done in Japan for FE7:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/ae7j/k_tohyo/index.html

Ok, so care to explain why she was the only Fire Emblem assist trophy?

 

[3Bismyname]

I was aware of the redesigns, just not the vast population, gosh thats alot. Im excited.
But do you expect fire emblem to get five reps? Because im expecting of course Krom, Then Marth and Ike, and Roy to return logically before any newcomers appear.
Check out my roster as well

at most i see Fire Emblem getting 4 characters (and even that may be pushing it). 5 just seems like a little much u know?

 

[TheCreator]

at most i see Fire Emblem getting 4 characters (and even that may be pushing it). 5 just seems like a little much u know?

Thats exactly what I was saying. In regards to Lyn, I believe roy will get back in first.

Besides the point:
But you all know that the characters in ssb4 will follow the redesigns for all the characters. Right?

 

[Deleted member]

I could understand that she was the first lord that was seen stateside (discounting Marth and Roy in Melee), so there is some modest significance in there. But the tutorial thing was why I was confused.

Ahh, you mean why people like her so much in general, especially in contrast to other lords?

Well, personally, I like her fighting style a lot, it was always fun and exciting to see her land criticals in FE7. And being the first Lord you get in the first Western FE certainly helps her. You likely saw Lyn land a critical before getting other Swordmasters/Myrmidons. Also, throughout the game she just about overshadowed all other units in regard to usefulness. You could always count on her to get **** done, hell, I think there's a video out there of this guy soloing the last Chapter of the game with Lyn alone.

In addition to being useful, she's one of the few female lords in the series, and if you haven't noticed by now I tend to have an affinity for female characters and badass dudes, also her Ruroni Kenshin inspired combat style certainly makes her stand out from the likes of other lords in the series. It's why people like Mia and stuff as well. I mean, who doesn't like sword-wielding chicks. Give a girl a Katana and suddenly she becomes a lot sexier, just because she comes of as strong an a way that suits females (speedy and agile). In fact, this is a rather common trope in anime and manga in general. They usually add some skilled Katana wielding girl with a Ponytail to the cast in an attempt to appeal to the audience.

So why she's so well liked isn't much of a mystery, she does have a lot going for her, especially in a series where the majority of Lords are Blue haired guys wielding western swords.



On Ike, his redisign is despised because he went from being bulky, manly and tough to a scrawny wimp.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ok, so care to explain why she was the only Fire Emblem assist trophy?

Probably Western popularity. She and Ike were pretty much on par with each other for a lot of pre-Brawl for a Fire Emblem newcomer in the West (Ike pulled ahead though when it was confirmed that he returned for Radiant Dawn, which happened around March).

In Japan, it was obviously a different story (Ike all the way).

The same thing happened with Wolf and Krystal. They were on par with each other in terms of popularity in the West, but in Japan, Wolf was by far the favorite.

I would also say the same happened with Toon Link and Midna (though Midna had an advantage in the West), however, in Japan it was the opposite (Toon Link blew away Midna).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ok, so care to explain why she was the only Fire Emblem assist trophy?

Being the only assist trophy from a series hardly has any significance.

Unless you also consider Tingle, Knuckle Joe, Jeff, Kat & Anna, Samurai Goroh, Andross, and a random Metroid as significant.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Then a redesign in FE13? Over Hector and Eliwood?

 

[TheCreator]

I can't tell who is for or against lyn by what is being said; I am against and even if i was for I would doubt her inclusion. Similar to the duck hunt dog.

 

[ChronoBound]

Then a redesign in FE13? Over Hector and Eliwood?

Sigurd did not get a re-design either, and he is pretty popular in Japan too (Seisen no Keifu is the second-most popular game in the series there, first would be Marth's Monsho no Nazo).

 

[Deleted member]

Being the only assist trophy from a series hardly has any significance.

Unless you also consider Tingle, Knuckle Joe, Jeff, Kat & Anna, Samurai Goroh, Andross, and a random Metroid as significant.

Yeah, but in a series like Fire Emblem where it's flooded with likable characters why was she picked out of all of them to be the AT? I'm sure it would have been easier to program Roy's scrapped data into an Assist than build Lyn from scratch.

It's clear that Sakurai acknowledged her popularity.

In addition she was the only lord from FE7 to be DLC for FE13, once again, proving to be rather popular among fans.

I'm not saying she's GUARANTEED to get in, but she's got a chance... About as equal (maybe slightly lower) than Roy's. This is mostly because hype for her has died down since Brawl as most fans see her chances as too slim. But like with Banjo, she's a character that just about anyone would like if she got in.


@The Creator

Just out of sheer curiosity, why are you "against" Lyn's inclusion? What is it about her that you don't find appealing?

 

[TheCreator]

I was skeptical on wether or not to include Mii into my roster, is this a character that is beleived to be likely around these boards?
Sorry for the bluntness. Also @ManlySpirit, Im "against" Lyn being in the game because it seems she would take a fire emblem slot that would be more suited to another character from the series.

 

[Big-Cat]

Mii is fairly divisive. I personally don't like the idea as you're essentially putting in an OC character with it.

You'd be better off putting them in the stage backgrounds like on Wuhu Island or a Mario Kart stage as part of the audience.

 

[3Bismyname]

I was skeptical on wether or not to include Mii into my roster, is this a character that is beleived to be likely around these boards?

that's pretty much split down the middle. many people find them likely due to being the most successful series since Brawl. while others dont like the idea for a number of reasons that you can read all about in the Mii thread

I am personally indifferent to the idea. maybe leaning more towards adding them. because like em or not they do have plenty of potential and totally earned the spot