Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[---]

I still think we should all wait on the next Pokemon before actually saying anything, Star is right that we are jumping the gun a little too soon. If the next Pokemon has an appealing design that is not yet another Lucario/Zoroark, then it has potential to be a new icon for the series.

One of the reasons I've tried to stay away from this thread all day. If there's one thing this latest Gen has taught me it's not to look for patterns. Now that more time has passed, however, I don't think Zoroark has become the icon for this Gen now that it's possibly coming to a close.

EDIT: Seems someone summed some of it up for me:

Glad to hear. About Zoroark, it never caught on as a mascot like Lucario and the latter ended up keeping a spotlight on it even during Gen 5. I think it speaks volumes when in the anime, the Unova League conclusion is coming down to an "epic" match between Ash's Pikachu and a freshly-evolved Lucario (with many calling a win for Lucario since Ash will never win a League). Not to mention the Black2/White2 trailer showing off Lucario a lot and making it a favorite to use for those games' run.

It's actually Lucario's continued prominence that has me thinking that Lucario still has a decent shot at remaining on the roster in Smash 4.

http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/WWW/faculty/plawsky/Comsol%20Modules/Drain/drain.jpg

My thoughts exactly. I just hope that Sakurai is as wise with the fandom as I hope he is.

I'm just throwing this out there, but does every Pokemon gen need a playable rep???

I mean isn't that the reason for the pokeball?

Thank you.

 

[ChronoBound]

Pra_Mai was never confirmed to be Plusle and Minun in any shape or form.

Its assumed that Pra_Mai was an abbreviation for Plusle & Minun based off of their Japanese names. Heck, in the Brawl file listings, Mewtwo is referred to as "MYU2" under the planned victory theme selection.

 

[Moon Monkey]

So why does everyone feel the need that there needs to be a 5th and 6th gen playable rep; especially when sakurai has stated that the roster isn't going to expand as much as it did in the previous installments.

With such cramped roster space i can't see sakurai saying to himself, '' Hmm... 4 Pokemon reps just isn't enough... Phuck it lets add more pokemon reps.'' As if the series wasn't well represented to begin with.

:wiiu:

 

[Deleted member]

While it's the common assumption, we have no definite proof for it being them or otherwise.
I feel it is very likely them, but at the same time, I can't claim it was them as fact.

 

[Arcadenik]

You mean this? http://www.pocketmonsters.net/images/ib/29/13547931560041.jpg

That's just general merchandise that's not tied to the movie besides having Genesect in it, much like this: http://sunyshore.com/scrap/genosectmerch1.jpg

The real movie merchandise is this, which showcases the shiny Genesect that's in the movie, and notably, states that there are two mystery merchandise yet to be shown (represented by a silhouette):
http://serebii.net/news/movie16.jpg

I guess Eevee and Dragonite will be playable in SSB4 because they have movie/anime tie-in merchandise just like Mewtwo... Just ask Meowth how that worked out for him.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So why does everyone feel the need that there needs to be a 5th and 6th gen playable rep, especially when sakurai has stated that the roster isn't going to expand as much as it did in the previous installments.

Because people love digging into patterns that don't exist and are clamoring that because of whatever, X will be in the next game whether people like it or not.

 

[---]

So why does everyone feel the need that there needs to be a 5th and 6th gen playable rep, especially when sakurai has stated that the roster isn't going to expand as much as it did in the previous installments

To give a true response to this would make me so happy. It's too bad I'm not one to flame.

 

[Deleted member]

especially when the mascot character could end up an arm-less imp for all anyone knows.

That would actually be an incredible Pokemon design, Magic the Gathering-esque Fire/Psychic Pokemon with no arms and Hobbit-like feet. He has funny legs and looks like he belongs in Psychonauts. He uses his mind to control fire and ****, has a little gem on his fore head.

Would be a fun Smash Character as well, a mid range Sniper that deals burn damage, terrible defense but tons of long range tools to stay away.

Prepare to eat crow. Mewtwo is the most wanted new character for Smash 4 worldwide.

I've even got my special Mickey Mouse cup filled and ready, Chief.

So why does everyone feel the need that there needs to be a 5th and 6th gen playable rep, especially when sakurai has stated that the roster isn't going to expand as much as it did in the previous installments.

with such cramped roster space i can't see sakurai saying to himself, phuck it lets add more pokemon reps. as if the series wasn't well represented to begin with.

:wiiu:

6 slots is overkill no matter how you spell it, we'll get 5 slots imo. Pika, Jiggs, Red, Lucario, Hobbit-Impboy.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Because people love digging into patterns that don't exist and are clamoring that because of whatever, X will be in the next game whether people like it or not.

Jeez, Sakurai has us all by the balls and ovaries!

 

[Chepe]

I guess Eevee and Dragonite will be playable in SSB4 because they have movie/anime tie-in merchandise just like Mewtwo... Just ask Meowth how that worked out for him.

But I said nothing about Mewtwo being playable because of this merchandise...

Either way, I'm starting to feel a bit trigger-happy as people are saying. It was fun sharing my thoughts and some info these last few pages, but I think I'll now wait quietly until the Pokemon announcement before joining the discussion again...

 

[ChronoBound]

In Japan, the only character that is competitive with Mewtwo in terms of requests is Roy. In the West, the only characters that are competitive with him are Ridley, K. Rool, and Mega Man. Sakurai will put in six slots for Pokemon if he has too, and as others have said, a 6th-gen spot is not a guarantee. Mewtwo being the most wanted character for Smash 4 means Sakurai will include. He even has a possibility of showing up for the unveil trailer (though I don't expect it), Mewtwo's return would bring a lot of hype to Smash 4. Heck, Sakurai has brought back previously cut content before in the Smash Bros. series and has made mention of the fact that they were cut (he mentioned this for the Bumper and Meowth updates on the Dojo). There is certainly much more of a clamor for the return Mewtwo and Roy than there was the Bumper and Pokeball Meowth.

 

[Starphoenix]

In Japan, the only character that is competitive with Mewtwo in terms of requests is Roy. In the West, the only characters that are competitive with him are Ridley, K. Rool, and Mega Man. Sakurai will put in six slots for Pokemon if he has too, and as others have said, a 6th-gen spot is not a guarantee. Mewtwo being the most wanted character for Smash 4 means Sakurai will include. He even has a possibility of showing up for the unveil trailer (though I don't expect it), Mewtwo's return would bring a lot of hype to Smash 4. Heck, Sakurai has brought back previously cut content before in the Smash Bros. series and has made mention of the fact that they were cut (he mentioned this for the Bumper and Meowth updates on the Dojo). There is certainly much more of a clamor for the return Mewtwo and Roy than there was the Bumper and Pokeball Meowth.

"It's taken over three years to make Brawl but I actually stopped trying to include new ideas early on in the development," says Sakurai. "What happened over the next year and a half was that we distilled the game down, worked out which ideas we had time to include and which we didn't. Sadly, we had to trim out many great concepts just to keep things practical within the time constraints. I had a lot more characters, for example... but sadly, I can't discuss which ones didn't make it!"

10chars...

 

[FlareHabanero]

People wanting Mewtwo is just a form of pity not desire. I remember back in the days when people were bad mouthing Mewtwo for being so terrible and that he should be gone and all that. But when it did happen the little hypocrites start to love the abomination again because he was missing, not because he was even remotely good.

 

[Moon Monkey]

In Japan, the only character that is competitive with Mewtwo in terms of requests is Roy. In the West, the only characters that are competitive with him are Ridley, K. Rool, and Mega Man. Sakurai will put in six slots for Pokemon if he has too, and as others have said, a 6th-gen spot is not a guarantee. Mewtwo being the most wanted character for Smash 4 means Sakurai will include.

Sakurai has stated his concerns about roster size. He has gone on record that he wants to refine and balance the game out as much as possible; as opposed to increasing an imbalanced roster

So to say he'll add more pokemon reps if he ''has to'' is kind of contradicting.

:wii:

 

[Arcadenik]

Personally I think the reason why Zoroark didn't become the face of 5th gen is because Lucario fans and Smash fans who are against cutting were fear mongering people into not supporting Zoroark because they saw Zoroark as a potential threat of taking Lucario's slot on the roster. I think some people here would rather keep all Pokemon from Brawl plus Mewtwo in SSB4, SSB5, SSB6, etc. without any new playable Pokemon and they justify it with "people hate cuts" "cuts would lead to poor sales" "there would be a backlash" "we don't need any more playable Pokemon characters" "new Pokemon can just be Pokeball summons, problem solved!" For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Sure, the anti-cut people would be happy with keeping the same Pokemon from Brawl plus Mewtwo... but at the same time, other people would be upset that they didn't get any new Pokemon. And thus, SSB4 still gets backlash the anti-cut people warned the others about anyway. Why do you think Sakurai feels like his hands are tied? He knows he cannot please everyone. It's impossible to make a crossover fighting game's roster without pissing off fans just like it's impossible to make an omelette without breaking eggs.

 

[Starphoenix]

Zoroark didn't become the face of the fifth generation is because it is a crappy character. Plain and simple. You see, this is why I loathe Pokémon discussion. Because of this carousal garbage that comes out of the woodwork. Not every generation needs or merits a playable character. There is a reason Pokéballs exist.

 

[ChronoBound]

People wanting Mewtwo is just a form of pity not desire. I remember back in the days where people were bad mouthing Mewtwo for being so terrible and that he should be gone and all that. But when it did happen the little hypocrites start to love the abomination again because he was missing.

One of the reasons I disliked the competitive part of the Smash Bros. fanbase (competitive players: "Mewtwo sux therefore he should not come back"). Also, another reason why most female character fanbases are disgraceful ("Garvdevoir is the new prominent psychic Pokemon. Mewtwo is yesterday's crappy news. Besides we don't need too many first-gen Pokemon in.").

 

[Arcadenik]

Zoroark didn't become the face of the fifth generation is because it is a crappy character. Plain and simple. You see, this is why I loathe Pokémon discussion. Because of this carousal garbage that comes out of the woodwork. Not every generation needs or merits a playable character. There is a reason Pokéballs exist.

And there is a reason Assist Trophies exist.

 

[Starphoenix]

And there is a reason Assist Trophies exist.

For all of the B-list series and generic enemy fodder.

People wanting Mewtwo is just a form of pity not desire. I remember back in the days when people were bad mouthing Mewtwo for being so terrible and that he should be gone and all that. But when it did happen the little hypocrites start to love the abomination again because he was missing, not because he was even remotely good.

It's like when you have an annoying dog that sits there and craps in the house all the time, and you say to yourself you wish it were dead. Only to find out it really did one day, and you are left with regret. I think that is how a lot of people felt. Very few really wanted him to go, they just wanted a better result.

 

[Deleted member]

People wanting Mewtwo is just a form of pity not desire. I remember back in the days when people were bad mouthing Mewtwo for being so terrible and that he should be gone and all that. But when it did happen the little hypocrites start to love the abomination again because he was missing, not because he was even remotely good.

Except Mewtwo is not terrible, at which your bias against him blinds you.
Dissapointing yes, but terrible is
And you know what? Bowser got better. Still needs a bit of work, but he's not as terrible anymore. That'd be .

EDIT: I assmue Roy is wanted out of pity too?

 

[Deleted member]

In Japan, the only character that is competitive with Mewtwo in terms of requests is Roy. In the West, the only characters that are competitive with him are Ridley, K. Rool, and Mega Man. Sakurai will put in six slots for Pokemon if he has too, and as others have said, a 6th-gen spot is not a guarantee. Mewtwo being the most wanted character for Smash 4 means Sakurai will include. He even has a possibility of showing up for the unveil trailer (though I don't expect it), Mewtwo's return would bring a lot of hype to Smash 4. Heck, Sakurai has brought back previously cut content before in the Smash Bros. series and has made mention of the fact that they were cut (he mentioned this for the Bumper and Meowth updates on the Dojo). There is certainly much more of a clamor for the return Mewtwo and Roy than there was the Bumper and Pokeball Meowth.

That's cool and all but... check my new roster, 10000 hours in MS Paint and all that:

Calling it now, 14 new reps because 3rd party, Gen 6 Impboy's gonna be our new Pokemon Rep for Smash (Simon's square came out purple for some reason...).

Also, you know Japanese don't you Chrono? Maybe you can help me out here. What's "iro iro" mean? Here's the whole phrase for context:
じつは、ディディーコングはディクシーコングとペアで出すつもりでした。タッチするごとで二人を瞬時に入れ 替えるようなシステムをつもり。いろいろと難しい部分があって早々とカットしました。

People wanting Mewtwo is just a form of pity not desire. I remember back in the days when people were bad mouthing Mewtwo for being so terrible and that he should be gone and all that. But when it did happen the little hypocrites start to love the abomination again because he was missing, not because he was even remotely good.

Agreed, to be honest I never felt him missing. When he was gone it was kinda like "oh, he's gone... Well he kinda sucked, and Lucario is a much better developed fighter anyways, so... whatever."

And I never really looked back, it's not till I got back into the community that I hear about this apparent backlash. None of my friends cared he was gone either.

 

[Arcadenik]

For all of the B-list series and generic enemy fodder.



It's like when you have an annoying dog that sits there and craps in the house all the time, and you say to yourself you wish it were dead. Only to find out it really did one day, and you are left with regret. I think that is how a lot of people felt. Very few really wanted him to go, they just wanted a better result.

This is proof that you should always be careful what you wish for.

 

[ChronoBound]

That's cool and all but... check my new roster, 10000 hours in MS Paint and all that:

So you have nothing to say to rebut anything I wrote? Typical of you.

 

[Moon Monkey]

So you have nothing to say to rebut anything I wrote? Typical of you.

I can say the same thing.

 

[Deleted member]

So you have nothing to say to rebut anything I wrote? Typical of you.

So, about that translation...

What is "iro iro"? Rikai-kun says "varied colors" but given the context it doesn't make much sense.

 

[ChronoBound]

I can say the same thing.

I always back what I say up.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I always back what I say up.

You never responded to my post either.

:WiiU:

 

[Arcadenik]

So, about that translation...

What is "iro iro"? Rikai-kun says "varied colors" but given the context it doesn't make much sense.

I know you didn't ask me but I used Google Translate. It's not much and I don't know how accurate it may be but this is what apparently translated to:

"Actually, I was going to put out a pair Dixie Kong and Diddy Kong. I'm going to put such a system in place of two people instantly each time you touch. I was cut early and if there is a lot more difficult part."

 

[ChronoBound]

You never responded to my post.

Repeat what you asked, and I will answer it. It probably got lost in the mountain of new posts made this evening (especially in the last two hours).

 

[Ridley_Prime]

People wanting Mewtwo is just a form of pity not desire. I remember back in the days where people were bad mouthing Mewtwo for being so terrible and that he should be gone and all that. But when it did happen the little hypocrites start to love the abomination again because he was missing.

Depends on the people you're talking about then. For me wanting Mewtwo back is definitely a desire and not a pity. Even before the Brawl trailers I wanted him to return but with some buffs, akin to what Bowser got in Brawl. And while Mewtwo was one of the things I grew up with, him being one of my favorites isn't simply due to nostalgia alone. To be honest he could be a gen 5 or 6 and I would still adore him as much for being the badass humanoid psychic pokestein that he is.

And since you brought up the people who selfishly wanted him gone before Brawl's roster was revealed, I wonder where they are now... It's funny how people seem to all be against cuts now compared to pre-Brawl.

Oh, also, what Golden said.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

You mean this? http://www.pocketmonsters.net/images/ib/29/13547931560041.jpg

That's just general merchandise that's not tied to the movie besides having Genesect in it, much like this: http://sunyshore.com/scrap/genosectmerch1.jpg

The real movie merchandise is this, which showcases the shiny Genesect that's in the movie, and notably, states that there are two mystery merchandise yet to be shown (represented by a silhouette):
http://serebii.net/news/movie16.jpg

I saw one mystery merchandise which is a watch, but where's second one.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Repeat what you asked, and I will answer it. It probably got lost in the mountain of new posts made this evening (especially in the last two hours).

You right it could of got lost on the last page. But here was my post:

In Japan, the only character that is competitive with Mewtwo in terms of requests is Roy. In the West, the only characters that are competitive with him are Ridley, K. Rool, and Mega Man. Sakurai will put in six slots for Pokemon if he has too, and as others have said, a 6th-gen spot is not a guarantee. Mewtwo being the most wanted character for Smash 4 means Sakurai will include.

Sakurai has stated his concerns about roster size. He has gone on record that he wants to refine and balance the game out as much as possible; as opposed to increasing an imbalanced roster

So to say he'll add more pokemon reps if he ''has to'' is kind of contradicting.

:WiiU:

 

[Starphoenix]

It's funny how people seem to all be against cuts now compared to pre-Brawl.

I'm not against removals, I'm against pointless removals, and at this point, there is no point to cutting Brawls roster beyond the guest characters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Except Mewtwo is not terrible, at which your bias against him blinds you.

No, Mewtwo was pretty terrible. He actually had some decent concepts going to him like a surprisingly potent grab game and recoveries, but he suffered from difficulties actually making kills due to poor range and speed and being light weight with a large frame made him very vulnerable to combos and KO's. Essentially he was a glass cannon minus the cannon part.

EDIT: I assmue Roy is wanted out of pity too?

Considering a large portion of his supporters don't even know about Roy's character in Fire Emblem: Sword of Seals, arguably yes.

 

[Deleted member]

I know you didn't ask me but I used Google Translate. It's not much and I don't know how accurate it may be but this is what apparently translated to:

"Actually, I was going to put out a pair Dixie Kong and Diddy Kong. I'm going to put such a system in place of two people instantly each time you touch. I was cut early and if there is a lot more difficult part."

Ahh, ok. It's a much better translation that what I attempted myself a couple pages back...

I got most of the words right, the order confused the **** outta me though. I guess "iro iro" must mean a lot. A synonym to "totemo." Thanks dude.

So I guess it's "cut early" and not "get cut to meet early." Guess that confirms it wasn't time constraints that kept the duo out then.

 

[Deleted member]

To avoid another argument, here's something to consider.
Sakurai had an issue against real guns that shoot bullets, correct?

Well, Uprising has a few gun-like weapons like the Flintlock Staff and the Bullet Blade. Think maybe he has less of an issue now?

 

[Chepe]

I saw one mystery merchandise which is a watch, but where's second one.

It is said somewhere in the scan that there are two, but I can't read Japanese so I'm taking Serebii's word for it. I'm assuming that the two mystery merchandise are both watches which is why they only show one silhouette.

 

[Starphoenix]

To avoid another argument, here's something to consider.
Sakurai had an issue against real guns that shoot bullets, correct?

Well, Uprising has a few gun-like weapons like the Flintlock Staff and the Bullet Blade. Think maybe he has less of an issue now?

I've always wondered why the issue of guns is such a big deal? I think Power Stone did a great job of adding gun weapons in a comedic way that was benign compared to most other games. I always wondered why other games did not pursue a similar approach?

 

[Arcadenik]

You right it could of got lost on the last page. But here was my post:


Sakurai has stated his concerns about roster size. He has gone on record that he wants to refine and balance the game out as much as possible; as opposed to increasing an imbalanced roster

So to say he'll add more pokemon reps if he ''has to'' is kind of contradicting.

:WiiU:

Maybe Sakurai might feel like he "has to" put up Mewtwo DLC if people keep badgering him about not adding Mewtwo in SSB4 in the first place.

Hey, maybe cutting characters wouldn't be so bad if they came back as DLC! LOL bargaining.

 

[FlareHabanero]

In the case of Kid Icarus: Uprising, I guess it was a case of double standards and cosmetics. In Kid Icarus: Uprising, your main method of offense was shooting at things, so I guess the development team thought including some weapons based on guns would be appropriate in that context. To further emphasis this, the Flintlock Staff and Bullet Blade in particular have very effective range power but very pathetic melee power.