Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Starphoenix]

Sakurai has stated before that there is only so many characters that he thinks are actually worthy enough to become playable characters within Smash Bros. I think while there are a few gems left at the bottom of the barrel, Sakurai is correct on wanting to focus on something other than beefing up the roster.

At this point I'm okay with that. The more I have played Brawl after being out of it for so long, the more I realize how much more could have been done in the area of gameplay. For me, just having the existing roster tweaked will be enough for me. One of the most aspects I had with Brawl was seeing how my characters transitioned into Brawl. Some characters like Falco were changed up enough to make me feel as though I was experiencing this character for the first time all over again. If Sakurai takes that approach of just focusing on little things like that, then I won't complain. My suspicion is that quite a bit of characters will be changing to reflect each series recent titles.

The only reason it's relevant to this thread is for speculation regarding the Pokemon roster in Smash 4. Should Gen 6 become a real thing for this year, it will completely change the discussion about Pokemon. And with Pokemon being such a massively successful franchise for Nintendo, it stands to reason that GameFreak/tPC would get a generally bigger say in what gets into Smash regarding their properties (and indeed, Sakurai has said that they're particularly harder to please than other companies).

It really won't.

 

[Deleted member]

If you ever want a real challenge from gen II though, try round 2 on Pokemon Stadium 2 with rentals only and see how far you get.

I did a Nuzlocke once, it was on HG... Never again man, never again. The Romhacks are neat challenges though. I got one for HG the other day. Sacred Heart Gold. I still haven't played it simply because MonHun is a better time-waster for the time being.

I didn't hate it with a passion. It was more like a gigantic "meh". It had it's good points, but most of the time, just... meh.

This is the same way I felt about Gen 4. Sinnoh was just so.... bleh. Shame too because I hear the Hokkaido island of Japan is beautiful.

That is the problem, people are just going to expect whatever happens and it's not going to generate any form of excitement. Super Smash Bros. is not a game designed to advertise whatever franchise out there, it's a game where the biggest names from Nintendo come together and beat the hell of each other. A character that is entered solely to advertise some sort of new game is probably the shallowest thing ever and should not be promoted.

(Also I am aware of Roy, but that doesn't make him any less shallow.)

B-b-but, what about Roy...

Seriously though, the fact that it's popular means it IS a marketing tool. Just be glad it's not handled by Sony, otherwise we'd be crammed with nothing but the latest, and more generic.

 

[3Bismyname]

I didn't hate it with a passion. It was more like a gigantic "meh". It had it's good points, but most of the time, just... meh.

that was the problem i had with it. each other gen had something that made me really like it. whether it be a new Pokemon, the bad guys, the challenge of it all whatever. but BW got overly preachy, the Pokemon introduced were subpar by comparison to previous gens (with a couple exceptions), and i found it the easiest one to complete (ignoring the completing pokedex part). now were the other ones perfect? HELL NO but they satisfied those wants i had and gen 5 didnt do it for me. BW2 is miles better than BW though.

 

[Gamingboy]

It really won't.

Yes it will. As mentioned earlier, the Pokemon people are among the more picky about who's included. It would make sense if they wanted to have some star from Generation 6 in.

 

[Starphoenix]

Yes it will. As mentioned earlier, the Pokemon people are among the more picky about who's included. It would make sense if they wanted to have some star from Generation 6 in.

First off, there is no evidence for that. Secondly, all that has ever been said about the Pokémon series by Sakurai himself is that the series is so massive that just trying to fit that into Super Smash Bros is a bigger task than all of the other Nintendo series. That's it.

Gamefreak and Creatures Inc. are no more controlling of their IP than any other subsidiary under Nintendo's umbrella.

 

[Chepe]

That is the problem, people are just going to expect whatever happens and it's not going to generate any form of excitement. Super Smash Bros. is not a game designed to advertise whatever franchise out there, it's a game where the biggest names from Nintendo come together and beat the hell of each other. A character that is entered solely to advertise some sort of new game is probably the shallowest thing ever and should not be promoted.

(Also I am aware of Roy, that doesn't make him any more shallow.)

I see where you're getting at now. As a Pokemon fan, the reason I support current-gen Pokemon in Smash is because I feel that the series deserves to be shown as a franchise that continues to... grow (had to stop myself there ). Especially since its success has yet to falter considerably, and is even considered a cultural thing in Japan now. If the Pokemon roster has predominantly Gen 1 Pokemon, I think it sends the wrong message about the franchise.

It's the reason I was a full supporter of Lucario back in pre-Brawl, even if it meant Mewtwo hypthetically had to be removed to make room for him (I know that probably wasn't the case but I'm sure I'm still going to get a lot of flack for that). I just disagree with the notion that Pokemon was only good back then, especially as an avid player of the games. Smash 4 should contain elements of the latest Pokemon generation, and if Gen 6 is released before Smash 4, then it wouldn't be right to exclude Gen 6 content from a prominent role (read: playable character).

 

[Deleted member]

I don't really care about seeing the new Pokemon from 6th gen games (except when it's about Smash). I'm only interested in seeing new bara art of the new human male characters from the 6th gen games.

Male Characters??

What about Mai Pokewaifus?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Needing a new face just for the sake of having a new face is not a necessary thing. Now if the new face had actual fans like Lucario, then it would be more justified. But again, adding it for the sake of adding it doesn't work like people would clamor on about.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Gen 2
Gen 1
Gen 3
Everything else: Irrelevant.

Fingers crossed for Gen 3 remake next week.

 

[3Bismyname]

Gen 2
Gen 1
Gen 3
Everything else: Irrelevant.

Fingers crossed for Gen 3 remake next week.

yeah i can agree with that

 

[Chepe]

First off, there is no evidence for that. Secondly, all that has ever been said about the Pokémon series by Sakurai himself is that the series is so massive that just trying to fit that into Super Smash Bros is a bigger task than all of the other Nintendo series. That's it.

Gamefreak and Creatures Inc. are no more controlling of their IP than any other subsidiary under Nintendo's umbrella.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/5437/features/an-audience-with-masahiro-sakurai/

Second page, at the bottom: "I also have to think about if the character pulls the gameplay in a direction I don't want it to go in," he agrees "and, of course, whether there are any IP issues to get over and if it'd be too hard to get that particular fighter in the game. Dealing with the Pokémon Company, especially, is quite difficult. They have a lot of details that need to be just right before they'll agree to anything." Having written about Pokémon ourselves in the past, we know exactly what he means.

 

[Arcadenik]

Needing a new face just for the sake of having a new face is not a necessary thing. Now if the new face had actual fans like Lucario, then it would be more justified. But again, adding it for the sake of adding it doesn't work like people would clamor on about.

Maybe it's the new fire-type Poke-Roy.

And ManlySpirit, you can have the waifus. I will take the other gender.

 

[Starphoenix]

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/5437/features/an-audience-with-masahiro-sakurai/

Second page, at the bottom: "I also have to think about if the character pulls the gameplay in a direction I don't want it to go in," he agrees "and, of course, whether there are any IP issues to get over and if it'd be too hard to get that particular fighter in the game. Dealing with the Pokémon Company, especially, is quite difficult. They have a lot of details that need to be just right before they'll agree to anything."

Well, I stand corrected. However, that does not mean that they bully Sakurai into adding characters for the sake of promotion. Considering that Pokémon has so many facets involved with it as a series, this is not surprising. That's probably why the item Pokémon models in Brawl had such a sharp contrast in quality.

 

[ChronoBound]

I hope the new flavor of the month is not another anthropomorphic canine. I really, really hope so. I want to see something original for their new poster Pokemon for Generation 6.

 

[3Bismyname]

I hope the new flavor of the month is not another anthropomorphic canine. I really, really hope so. I want to see something original for their new poster Pokemon for Generation 6.

its gonna be a cat

 

[Moon Monkey]

I hope the new flavor of the month is not another anthropomorphic canine. I really, really hope so. I want to see something original for their new poster Pokemon for Generation 6.

Ladies and Gentlemen! I give you....MewThree

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I see where you're getting at now. As a Pokemon fan, the reason I support current-gen Pokemon in Smash is because I feel that the series deserves to be shown as a franchise that continues to... grow (had to stop myself there ). Especially since its success has yet to falter considerably, and is even considered a cultural thing in Japan now. If the Pokemon roster has predominantly Gen 1 Pokemon, I think it sends the wrong message about the franchise.

It's the reason I was a full supporter of Lucario back in pre-Brawl, even if it meant Mewtwo hypthetically had to be removed to make room for him (I know that probably wasn't the case but I'm sure I'm still going to get a lot of flack for that). I just disagree with the notion that Pokemon was only good back then, especially as an avid player of the games. Smash 4 should contain elements of the latest Pokemon generation, and if Gen 6 is released before Smash 4, then it wouldn't be right to exclude Gen 6 content from a prominent role (read: playable character).

I can respect a gen 6 being in SSB4 more now when you put it that way, especially over a current gimmick like Zoroark.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe it's the new fire-type Poke-Roy.

And ManlySpirit, you can have the waifus. I will take the other gender.

Deal, I still need to complete my Harem after all.
[COLLAPSE="Rance Waifu Tier List"]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Arcadenik]

I hope the new flavor of the month is not another anthropomorphic canine. I really, really hope so. I want to see something original for their new poster Pokemon for Generation 6.

Maybe it's an anthropomorphic feline... no, that would conflict with Mewtwo.... maybe it's an anthropomorphic reptile... no, that would conflict with King K. Rool because it would be redundant to have two crocodiles... maybe it's an anthropomorphic Pikachu! Pikaman confirmed.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The new flavor of the month is going to be a griffin, so we get the "best" of both worlds.

 

[ChronoBound]

its gonna be a cat

I would like to see something that is maybe not anthropomorphic and has some interesting abilities. Lucario has aura, Zoroark had illusions, I am sure this new poster Pokemon will have something.

I just hope Sakurai gives Pokemon six slots that way everyone will be happy. However, personally, I would just be happy if we only got Brawl's playable Pokemon plus Mewtwo.

 

[Chepe]

Needing a new face just for the sake of having a new face is not a necessary thing. Now if the new face had actual fans like Lucario, then it would be more justified. But again, adding it for the sake of adding it doesn't work like people would clamor on about.

If some Gen 6 "mascot" Pokemon shares the spotlight with Genesect in the upcoming movie, then it could definitely garner many fans by the time Smash 4 is released. That's another thing many Pokemon fans are predicting anyway, that the full Japanese title of the Genesect movie is being withheld as usual because the full title contains the name of a Gen 6 Pokemon.

Well, I stand corrected. However, that does not mean that they bully Sakurai into adding characters for the sake of promotion. Considering that Pokémon has so many facets involved with it as a series, this is not surprising. That's probably why the item Pokémon models in Brawl had such a sharp contrast in quality.

I don't see any bullying, but I do think that Sakurai approached GameFreak/tPC last year in regards to Smash 4 content and may have received sneak peaks of Gen 6 from them. GameFreak has said they start development on the next generation as soon as they're done with the first pair games (they specifically said that Black/White started development at the same time as Platinum). I also don't see Sakurai turning down a request from GameFreak to include a soon-to-be revealed new Pokemon that they're going to try and push as a mascot.

If Genesect ends up having a Gen 6 co-star, it will likely have been one of the first Gen 6 designs finalized, and could have feasibly been shown to Sakurai in the middle of 2012.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Genesect is not going to have a Gen 6 co-star. In fact the co-star in question might actually be Mewtwo if the merchandise is telling us anything.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't see any bullying, but I do think that Sakurai approached GameFreak/tPC last year in regards to Smash 4 content and may have received sneak peaks of Gen 6 from them. GameFreak has said they start development on the next generation as soon as they're done with the first pair games (they specifically said that Black/White started development at the same time as Platinum). I also don't see Sakurai turning down a request from GameFreak to include a soon-to-be revealed new Pokemon that they're going to try and push as a mascot.

If Genesect ends up having a Gen 6 co-star, it will likely have been one of the first Gen 6 designs finalized, and could have feasibly been shown to Sakurai in the middle of 2012.

This is basically what I've been saying all this time. It's not even about WANTING the Gen 6 Pokemon to take the light. It's simply that it's expected. The same way Chrom is expected for Fire Emblem. As Arcadenik put it, you can ***** and whine and cry and even attempt to commit suicide all you want, but it's still gonna happen. Might as well forget about your ideal match-ups and learn to deal with it.

I've said it once, Nintendo is a money-making company, period. Say all you want about Smash Bros and the like, at the end of they day, Nintendo and everyone working under them still like money. You can bet the kiddies are gonna love seeing the shiny new Pokemon in Smash Bros.

 

[Chepe]

I can respect a gen 6 being in SSB4 more now when you put it that way, especially over a current gimmick like Zoroark.

Glad to hear. About Zoroark, it never caught on as a mascot like Lucario and the latter ended up keeping a spotlight on it even during Gen 5. I think it speaks volumes when in the anime, the Unova League conclusion is coming down to an "epic" match between Ash's Pikachu and a freshly-evolved Lucario (with many calling a win for Lucario since Ash will never win a League). Not to mention the Black2/White2 trailer showing off Lucario a lot and making it a favorite to use for those games' run.

It's actually Lucario's continued prominence that has me thinking that Lucario still has a decent shot at remaining on the roster in Smash 4.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I would like to see something that is maybe not anthropomorphic and has some interesting abilities. Lucario has aura, Zoroark had illusions, I am sure this new poster Pokemon will have something.

I just hope Sakurai gives Pokemon six slots that way everyone will be happy. However, personally, I would just be happy if we only got Brawl's playable Pokemon plus Mewtwo.

I understand pokeon is popular and all that jazz, but 6 slots??? tbh i would be fine with mew2 being refined and re-added and lucario/zoro-whats-his-face being ALT costumes.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Sakurai could very give Pokemon six slots, especially if the Gen 6 poster-Pokemon actually looks pretty different from Lucario unlike Zoroark (who felt like a retread). By the end of next week, it could be Ike facing a bigger danger of being cut than Lucario. Though this all depends if Game Freak even bothers to have some originality this time.

 

[Starphoenix]

I don't see any bullying, but I do think that Sakurai approached GameFreak/tPC last year in regards to Smash 4 content and may have received sneak peaks of Gen 6 from them. GameFreak has said they start development on the next generation as soon as they're done with the first pair games (they specifically said that Black/White started development at the same time as Platinum). I also don't see Sakurai turning down a request from GameFreak to include a soon-to-be revealed new Pokemon that they're going to try and push as a mascot.

If Genesect ends up having a Gen 6 co-star, it will likely have been one of the first Gen 6 designs finalized, and could have feasibly been shown to Sakurai in the middle of 2012.

The problem with that is you're adding a character without any kind of idea how the character will be received. Yes, I know Sakurai did that with Roy, but that had a lot to do with his own interest in the character and series. As a developer, you don't want to gamble with a character that may end up being a poor choice in the future, especially when the mascot character could end up an arm-less imp for all anyone knows. Besides, that is to even assume that Gamefreak gives Sakurai suggestions on playable Pokémon.

 

[---]

Kokomonju

LMAO

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/5437/features/an-audience-with-masahiro-sakurai/

Second page, at the bottom: "I also have to think about if the character pulls the gameplay in a direction I don't want it to go in," he agrees "and, of course, whether there are any IP issues to get over and if it'd be too hard to get that particular fighter in the game. Dealing with the Pokémon Company, especially, is quite difficult. They have a lot of details that need to be just right before they'll agree to anything." Having written about Pokémon ourselves in the past, we know exactly what he means.

I think I saw this interview before, but I can't remember where. But if it's not in the directory thread I'll add it.

@Everyone else: Yes this time I'll check ahead of time.

That said I do think that the PC is still pretty open to Sakurai's requests, it's just that the amount of Pokemon content in each game that's the problem.

I would like to see something that is maybe not anthropomorphic and has some interesting abilities. Lucario has aura, Zoroark had illusions, I am sure this new poster Pokemon will have something.

I just hope Sakurai gives Pokemon six slots that way everyone will be happy. However, personally, I would just be happy if we only got Brawl's playable Pokemon plus Mewtwo.

I think everyone agrees with this. That said I am curious to see where the fandom would go if Gen 6 is truly getting a reveal.

 

[ChronoBound]

I still think we should all wait on the next Pokemon before actually saying anything, Star is right that we are jumping the gun a little too soon. If the next Pokemon has an appealing design that is not yet another Lucario/Zoroark, then it has potential to be a new icon for the series.

 

[Chepe]

Genesect is not going to have a Gen 6 co-star. In fact the co-star in question might actually be Mewtwo if the merchandise is telling us anything.

You mean this? http://www.pocketmonsters.net/images/ib/29/13547931560041.jpg

That's just general merchandise that's not tied to the movie besides having Genesect in it, much like this: http://sunyshore.com/scrap/genosectmerch1.jpg

The real movie merchandise is this, which showcases the shiny Genesect that's in the movie, and notably, states that there are two mystery merchandise yet to be shown (represented by a silhouette):
http://serebii.net/news/movie16.jpg

 

[FlareHabanero]

That said I am curious to see where the fandom would go if Gen 6 is truly getting a reveal.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I'm just throwing this out there, but does every Pokemon gen need a playable rep???

I mean isn't that the reason for the pokeball?
I just think 6 is overkill

:wiiu:

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm just throwing this out there, but does every Pokemon gen need a playable rep???

I mean isn't that the reason for the pokeball?

Of course not, Generation 3 did not get one (though Plusle & Minun was originally intended at one point to be a playable character for Brawl). Generation 2 also almost did not get one (Melee's six clones were not planned from the beginning).

 

[3Bismyname]

I'm just throwing this out there, but does every Pokemon gen need a playable rep???

I mean isn't that the reason for the pokeball?

not at all. otherwise we should've seen a gen 3 pokemon in Brawl

 

[Deleted member]

Glad to hear. About Zoroark, it never caught on as a mascot like Lucario and the latter ended up keeping a spotlight on it even during Gen 5. I think it speaks volumes when in the anime, the Unova League conclusion is coming down to an "epic" match between Ash's Pikachu and a freshly-evolved Lucario (with many calling a win for Lucario since Ash will never win a League). Not to mention the Black2/White2 trailer showing off Lucario a lot and making it a favorite to use for those games' run.

It's actually Lucario's continued prominence that has me thinking that Lucario still has a decent shot at remaining on the roster in Smash 4.

I agree with this as well. Lucario is seems to have gathered a degree of popularity that stems far from his generation, he's a rival to Mewtwo in more ways than one to be honest.

In fact, if you really stop and think. Mewtwo got in Melee because he was the big hotshot back then. Melee only represented two Generations of Pokemon. Had Melee come out during all the Deoxys hype we may have seen the Green and Red DNA Pokemon over Mewtwo (well, maybe not, Mewtwo always had the leg on him even in Gen 3), but by the time Gen 4 showed up with Rayquaza and Arceus and many other Pokemon begining to compete and over-shadow Mewtwo in Power, and other like Lucario, and Garchomp competing in popularity, Mewtwo suddenly finds himself not being as popular, especially with the new generations. Sure, Charizard and Mewtwo may be ranked at the top among Pokemon fans, but keep in mind that Pokemon 'fans' are all College Students that grew up with Red and Blue, so of course they take preference to the older Pokemon, but what about the generation that grew up with Gen 3? They surely take preference to Blaziken over Charizard, and to Deoxys and Rayquaza over Mewtwo, and what about the newest kiddies who are just now getting into it with Gen 5? All they care about are Lucario and Reshiram and Zekrom.

The point is, Mewtwo isn't as widely popular as people claim he is. Sure the oldschool fans still love and cherish the memories they had with him, but there's a new generation that Pokemon belongs to now. Pokemon IS a children's franchise after all, the fact that we can't let it go and can be very vocal about seeing our old faves get replaced with new faces is neither Nintendo's fault nor their responsibility. We have to learn to let go and to pass the torch. Pokemon is an evolving franchise after all, we can't expect it to stay or be marketed the same way forever.

With that being said, imo, the Pokemon roster will go without Mewtwo and include both Lucario and the new Gen 6 Pokemon, mark my words.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo got in Melee because he was planned for 64.

 

[ChronoBound]

With that being said, imo, the Pokemon roster will go without Mewtwo and include both Lucario and the new Gen 6 Pokemon, mark my words.

Prepare to eat crow. Mewtwo is the most wanted new character for Smash 4 worldwide.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Of course not, Generation 3 did not get one (though Plusle & Minun was originally intended at one point to be a playable character for Brawl).

Pra_Mai was never confirmed to be Plusle and Minun in any shape or form.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm just throwing this out there, but does every Pokemon gen need a playable rep???

I mean isn't that the reason for the pokeball?
I just think 6 is overkill

:wiiu:

Quick, somebody give this man or woman an award!

No, every series does not need a playable Pokémon. It is just a silly, barely supported pattern that everybody and their dog seem to adhere to.