Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yuui: I've been debating about this sometimes, even stating a theory that Squirtle MIGHT actually been Starfy (though I have only similarity to Down-Tilt being like Starfy 4's and 5's "High-Hat Spin, supporting this). But there's not even any remnants of a stage or other features which makes me wonder would Starfy been considered. Saki though is bit harder to see because nothing much indicates him being considered except maybe those Dojo-update statements.

But anyone's guess. Though who knows, SSB4 might show what he was considering to add?

Getting late here, off.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Whatever that gap was supposed to be, I presume whatever it was will popup in the next game and we'll know about it from an interview. After all, developers tend to look back and try to implement scrapped ideas whenever a new installment is in the works.

I presume damaged armor and unique victory themes will be in the next game in particular.

 

[ChronoBound]

On a related note, I still find it extremely ironic that Takamaru has more interest in the west despite Mysterious Murasame Castle never being released outside of Japan.

Yeah, I found this funny too. Retro picks are actually uncommon from what I have seen. I keep saying that one of the impetuses for Sakurai wanting to focus more this time on a gameplay overhaul than another "bigger is better" like Melee and Brawl were was due to him going onto some Japanese sites and seeing that:
1. The most wanted characters are guys who have already been playable characters in Smash Bros. (Mewtwo and Roy)
2. That there are so few newcomers that they actually have a consensus on.

If Sakurai ends up saying at around E3 2013, that Smash 4 will have less newcomers than Brawl and Melee (which he should if it does end up being that way, that way people don't end up bashing Smash 4 upon release due to overinflated expectations), expect things to get really bloody and angry for the second phase of Smash Bros. speculation due to various fanbases fighting with one another due a confirmed limit on how many newcomers there would be.

 

[Deleted member]

I originally thought it might be Starfy as well, but I'm starting to think it's for a series that does not have anything in regards to Smash.
No Assist (why would Sakurai be able to have them as an Assist, but not a character?)
No Song (Songs from series like Golden Sun are in the Modern Nintendo listing, while songs from series like Murasame Castle are in the Retro Nintendo listing)
No Trophy (Same as Assist)
No Sticker (Same as Trophy)

Anybody know any completely unrepped non-Retro series in Brawl that could possibly have had a character?

 

[FlareHabanero]

The supposed lack of choices is one reason why I'm keeping my expectations to at least 10 so I don't become disappointed if we don't get around 18 (technically speaking) like last time. Besides, quality over quantity will still be superior regardless of how things are viewed at. I mean having a solid line up will always be better then needless padding.

 

[ChronoBound]

The supposed lack of choices is one reason why I'm keeping my expectations to at least 10 so I don't become disappointed if we don't get around 18 (technically speaking) like last time. Besides, quality over quantity will still be superior regardless of how things are viewed at.

13 newcomers is less than Brawl and Melee.

1. Toad
2. K. Rool
3. Dixie Kong
4. Ridley
5. Mewtwo
6. Some Pokemon newcomer
7. Roy
8. Palutena
9. Little Mac
10. Shulk or Mii
11. Takamaru
12. Mega Man
13. Some bizarre retro character or Mii

I think most people would be fine with this.

However, keep in mind 13/14 newcomers is the absolute maximum I am expecting for Smash 4.

 

[Arcadenik]

I have really thought about Star's comment about how much on the requests on Nintendo's facebook for Smash 4 newcomers are absurd and that there is no consensus. I am feeling that this game will pretty much be the last game in which there is a multitude of characters that a lot of people can agree on in regards to their inclusion.

The Japanese Smash Bros. fanbase is much closer to that point than we are. Outside of flavors-of-the-month for FE and Pokemon and the two cut Melee guys, the only characters that get a lot of requests there are Mega Man, Palutena, Shulk, K. Rool, and Dixie Kong.

How absurd? Like third-party video game characters who never had a game on a Nintendo system or anime characters?

So, other than Chrom and Zoroark (flavors of the month), Roy and Mewtwo (Melee cuts), and Mega Man, Palutena, Shulk, King K. Rool, and Dixie Kong... and you forgot Ridley... the other possible newcomers I think have a high probability of getting in SSB4 despite not getting enough requests are: Balloon Fighter, Mii, Takamaru, Little Mac, Toad, and Waddle Dee... and it's mainly because of major post-Brawl games developed by first-party developers... and MAYBE Starfy (because of Starly trophy placed in Fighter-Related category) and MAYBE Villager if Sakurai changed his mind about Animal Crossing characters (and Balloon Fighter).

Golden, I think it's Mii.

 

[Deleted member]

There are songs for Wii Sports, Wii Shop Channel, Wii Play, and Mii Channel all under the Modern Nintendo listing.

It's not Mii.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I do recall there being a mention by Sakurai of an hypothetical Animal Crossing character (presumably the player's avatar) using nets and shovels for offensive moves, so it's not like the idea of an Animal Crossing character could be completely disregarded.

Also, it might be fitting if the character in question was the mayor of Smashville as a parallel to Animal Crossing: New Leaf.

 

[ChronoBound]

There are songs for Wii Sports, Wii Shop Channel, Wii Play, and Mii Channel all under the Modern Nintendo listing.

It's not Mii.

You are discounting the possibility that the "absent series" originally had its own folder, but then had its songs moves to another folder (most likely general Nintendo).

There is also the possibility that folder could have went to a series that was planned to have a stage, but not a character (like Pictochat, Smashville, and Electroplankton).

I do recall there being a mention by Sakurai of an hypothetical Animal Crossing character (presumably the player's avatar) using nets and shovels for offensive moves.

Animal Crossing already has a named music folder of its own within Brawl, but its possible that the absent number listing after ROB could have been the Animal Crosser.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Seven choices I would like to see and expect have at least semi good chances.

 

[---]

It's definitely not Mii, in Iwata Asks Sakurai said he stayed away from the Miis in order to separate Smash from other Wii games at the time.

Honestly if I had to bet (which I'm not) I'd go with either Animal Crossing or Starfy.

 

[Arcadenik]

I do recall there being a mention by Sakurai of an hypothetical Animal Crossing character (presumably the player's avatar) using nets and shovels for offensive moves, so it's not like the idea of an Animal Crossing character could be completely disregarded.

Also, it might be fitting if the character in question was the mayor of Smashville as a parallel to Animal Crossing: New Leaf.

I like that. I agree it might be fitting. But what would the Animal Crossing avatar be named? Animal Crosser? Villager? Mayor? It's gotta be better than Boy or Girl.

 

[Deleted member]

.........

Disregard this post.

 

[Deleted member]

I do recall there being a mention by Sakurai of an hypothetical Animal Crossing character (presumably the player's avatar) using nets and shovels for offensive moves, so it's not like the idea of an Animal Crossing character could be completely disregarded.

Also, it might be fitting if the character in question was the mayor of Smashville as a parallel to Animal Crossing: New Leaf.

It has it's own music folder, so it can't be the Crosser.

You are discounting the possibility that the "absent series" originally had its own folder, but then had its songs moves to another folder (most likely general Nintendo).

In order for THAT to work, the series would need to have a bunch of songs in order to have moved, at which in this case, the only way that'd work would be the Mii, but as Tri said, Sakurai purposely avoided Miis.

There is also the possibility that folder could have went to a series that was planned to have a stage, but not a character (like Pictochat, Smashville, and Electroplankton).

But that doesn't explain the missing fanfare. Also, notice how out of those three stages, only one has a series music folder; the Animal Crossing stage.

Animal Crossing already has a named music folder of its own within Brawl, but its possible that the absent number listing after ROB could have been the Animal Crosser.

Unlikely, considering the missing music series.

The only logical way the missing fanfare can go to the Crosser is if the missing series was Ice Climber (note how it doesn't have it's own folder and its one song is under Retro) and was planned to have more songs, but those songs were cancelled (probably from lack of available songs).
But then that doesn't explain why the Crosser does not have character data, unless "pra_mai" is them, which doesn't make sense.

 

[FlareHabanero]

That statement of mine wasn't regarding to the missing link, it was regarding to the possibilities of an Animal Crossing rep in the future due to it supposedly being "unworkable". I just mentioned that specifically to throw in a bone for the few supporters still out there.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, my mistake.

EDIT: Lol, missing link. This has now turned into a Sasquatch hunt. ! Sasquatch is the missing character fanfare.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a semi-conservative roster:

49 characters, no cuts, Mewtwo and Roy return, and eight newcomers.

I feel pretty good about all of these characters getting in and I think even after intial backlash that people will be mostly happy.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Point to me where any Pokemon character other than the Trainer and Pikachu had their own games.
How about Zelda/Sheik or Ganondorf?
Falco or Wolf?
Meta Knight, Dedede?
Heck, point to where BOWSER had his own game. And no, Bowser's Inside Story doesn't count, as it really wasn't his game, it was Mario's and Luigi's.

Ridley shouldn't be in Smash, since he's not a star of Nintendo, or at least until he has his own game.
Neither should K. Rool.

@Everyone else: I'm not arguing that Waluigi's role in his series is comparable to these characters; just that this guy's argument is heavily flawed.

From what I see. After I read next few pages, you seem to be Waluigi fan.

Honestly, he's not worth of any slot. If he got in, I am willing to accept that since my friend want him to be in.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Anyway, to elaborate on the Animal Crossing character in question.

If the character in question is indeed the mayor of Smashville, then I'd imagine the character being more aggressive then Animal Crossing would suggest, like a character out of Kamen Rider or Super Sentai. In particular I kinda want to see the character being the supposed "late hero" that Sakurai teased on the Dojo years ago from revealing the Go K.K. Rider! song, and dresses in a costume inspired by the "Hero" look from the Animal Crossing games.

 

[Deleted member]

From what I see. After I read next few pages, you seem to be Waluigi fan.

Honestly, he's not worth of any slot. If he got in, I am willing to accept that since my friend want him to be in.

And from what standpoint is he not worth it that doesn't apply to someone like Jigglypuff, who's only "worth" is that it/she has been in all the previous Smashes already?

And this is coming from someone that likes to troll people with Jiggz.
The whole "doesn't have his own game" crap is flawed as a bunch of Smash's characters don't have their own games either. And neither do quite a few of the popular requests for Smash 4...

@Habanero: I rather like that idea.

 

[8-peacock-8]

We need more Kamen Rider anyway.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I always kind of wonder if the fact Mewtwo didn't make it back in was because there was no way they could put him in without him feeling greatly underpowered, and the way they put him in SSBM made him EXTREMELY underpowered. I've said this before, but legendary Pokemon just don't really work in Smash, since by their very nature they are supposed to be near-gamebreaker final boss material. It'd be like if they were to put in Ganon instead of Ganondorf.

Hmm good point..never thought like that but very true..Also the biggest falcon kick to the balls of all time would be for Sakurai to add mewtwo as a epic powerfull boss in Sm4sh but not playable...


Also i been away for 2days damn..nice to see this thread still being hot! i had to go back and read 10 pages! But yh just to quickly cover some points.

About the megaman thing i just dont want him to overshadow samus to much and make her suck in comparison with projectiles and overalll in general..like Snake did to Samus..

Not like saying Snake was intentionally meant to be better then samus..but yh you know what i mean its true...

Also about the toad thing kinda weired how Toad is displayed as a strong char? He was strongest in Mario Advance 1 that was hella weired after all his appearences of him being feeble/weak funny kind chracter.

I used to bully him all day in MK64 lol..i Was against Toad just because i know he would suck? What moveset potential could he have i mean really...(-_-)..i kinda see him as a joke char with a super strong uber move like Jiggly with Rest..

And ofc he is like one of the most iconic char in mario but i think if Toad had potential was worth it..he would have been in Smash since 64 or atleast Melee..

Not sure if

Jigglypuff is an icon to Smash Bros. at first point. One of those characters that is more iconic to Smash than their own series (Sheik would be another example of this, and perhaps Zero Suit Samus as well).

It would be a shame for Jigglypuff to leave since she was part of the Original 12, in Smash Bros. since the very beginning.

There was something of a charm seeing Jigglypuff in Smash 64 alongside major Nintendo icons back when Smash 64 was first released. I really did not understand at the time why Jigglypuff was picked. I originally thought that they wanted to give Pokemon a second playable character since it was such a huge phenomenon, but they did not know who to put in, so they picked a second Pokemon randomly, so and it ended up being Jigglypuff.
e SNES.

I cant beilieve you didnt mention Captain Falcon..he is the perfect prime example of fame in Smash Falcoooon Punchhh!!!

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Here's a semi-conservative roster:

49 characters, no cuts, Mewtwo and Roy return, and eight newcomers.

I feel pretty good about all of these characters getting in and I think even after intial backlash that people will be mostly happy.

1. I think that roster would be ok but it feels like a Brawl Extended roster to me, not so much of a SSB4 one. Really does need more new franchises since the only two are Sin & Punishment and Punchout. Franchises like Xenoblade and Golden Sun.

2. Also a mostly Gen 1 Pokemon roster just seems like overkill.

So, in the end, decent but I feel most people wouldn't like it. I am kind of in the middle though.

 

[Ember Reaper]

1. I think that roster would be ok but it feels like a Brawl Extended roster to me, not so much of a SSB4 one. Really does need more new franchises since the only two are Sin & Punishment and Punchout. Franchises like Xenoblade and Golden Sun.

2. Also a mostly Gen 1 Pokemon roster just seems like overkill.

So, in the end, decent but I feel most people wouldn't like it. I am kind of in the middle though.

Yeah I agree, it kind of feels like a Brawl expansion roster.

But for what you're going for it's rather good! Limited, but for only 10 newcomers I like it! Save for not Shulk or Isaac at all. Good stuff SSBF!

 

[ChronoBound]

I am still very eager (or perhaps the more proper word is anxious) to see whom the first several newcomers for Smash 4 are, and to hear much more details about Smash 4. We are very much in uncharted waters about the series at this point.

Its a really long wait until E3. At this point we have been waiting longer for Smash 4 stuff than people after Melee's release had to wait for a Brawl unveil. Its going to be really nice to finally attribute a name for Smash 4 as opposed to a number.

As I mentioned several times before, speculation for Smash Bros. comes in two phases:

Phase 1: Nothing (or barely anything) is known), and this period lasts from the release of the previous Smash Bros. game until the first newcomers are confirmed.

Phase 2: Begins when we get an actual name for the game and newcomer confirmations. Lasts until the game's release. Marked by a vastly higher increase in fan hype and activity.

Newcomers to the speculation scene (which is quite frankly most of the people here) are going to be in for quite the treat, barring Sakurai says something like " There is only going be 10 newcomers, and about five characters from Brawl will be cut. Get hyped. "

For a long time fan like myself, I can't say I am looking forward to when we actually hear/see some new things or actually dreading it. I can't shake the feeling that we could be looking at "5 cuts from Brawl, 10 newcomers overall" in regards to Smash 4. However, even if its such a low number, I think at the very least I would still get Ridley and Mega Man, though I am dreading the cuts (particularly if Pokemon Trainer is one of them).

I just hope that whatever characters are cut, that Sakurai is able to still get them in as DLC. However, I strongly doubt character DLC will happen for Smash 4.

This is going to be my last Smash Bros. game so I would really like it if every character that has been in the very up until this point came back for Smash 4 (even Dr. Mario and Pichu, though they are not as necessary as the rest of the Smash fighters, but it would still be nice).

 

[kikaru]

I'd like to know what the general opinion is in including Palutena, Saki, and Takamaru. Frankly I haven't played either of their games so I feel like I can't make an informed decision on their inclusion. I do not know how much their characters can bring to the table in promoting Smash.

Would you say the inclusion of these characters would bring more attention to their respective games/franchises and possibly spawn newer release? (Similarly to Pit) Or would their inclusion spark a decent number fans into buying/playing the newest Smash Bros? (People who say, "I'm buying this game just so I can play X!")

Are these characters highly requested among both eastern and western fanbases or is their simply a bandwagon support for these characters among one side?

Besides Palutena how recognized are Takamaru, Saki, and their respective game series? I have shown several of my friends other forumer's rosters (at least the more legitmate ones) and for the most part these two are the least familiar next to Masked Man and Geno. Granted this is a small and biased sample size but to be fair, will the average/casual/new Smash players recognize these guys or will they be like Roy and Marth in Melee?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Getting rid of Red might be more of a benefit then people think, since allows more leg room for any newcomer from the Pokemon side without the roster feeling cluttered with too much Pokemon. If that sounds bad for whatever reason, then maybe just keep Charizard at best.

Also I wouldn't worry too much about the casual crowd, since adding characters is never offensive for them. To them they don't really care about the representational drivel and actually enjoy whatever character deems cool to their eyes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Unrepped Non-Retro? Tons, although most are third party...

And I'm transgender, so... please refer to me as a female, thanks.

Anyway, Waluigi doesn't need any of that to get in. The fact he got status as an AT, which is about the closest to playable you can get(outside of a boss, technically), since you affect normal matches, does say that Sakurai does like him enough to possibly add him. Not saying he's actually likely, just that he's possible.

I'd still say Dr. Mario has a better chance of coming back, as Brawl's data notes. Toad is iffy, but would be a neat addition. Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario(well, with or without SM) and Paper Mario seem like the same boat to me. Strong characters in their own right, but don't generally have much going for them. Sticker Star wasn't received nearly as well due to the lack of story/characterization in general, so that doesn't help matters. And one could argue Super Paper Mario wasn't very popular(I doubt this, as it's a great game, but I can understand why some think that)

So, my order of likeliness based upon current standings, although take this with a grain of salt, is; Dr. Mario > Toad/Waluigi > Bowser Jr.(Shadow Mario, with or without)/Paper Mario

 

[Arcadenik]

Here's a semi-conservative roster:

49 characters, no cuts, Mewtwo and Roy return, and eight newcomers.

I feel pretty good about all of these characters getting in and I think even after intial backlash that people will be mostly happy.

This is yet another example of why conservative rosters are too boring and predictable. They are nothing more than generic Brawl expansion rosters. Sure, all the commonly requested ones are there but I don't see anyone out from the left field. Sakurai put in some characters who were less popular and omitted some of the popular ones in Melee and Brawl. In Melee before Sakurai stuffed it with clones, he purposefully added four popular choices because of the poll (Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, Marth) and four less popular choices because they offered unique gameplay experiences in spite of getting so few votes on the poll (Zelda/Sheik, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch). He did the same thing in Brawl... less popular choices who offered unique gameplay experiences (Zero Suit Samus, Pokemon Trainer, Olimar, R.O.B.).

Sakurai is not going to put in the popularly requested characters only and ignore the rest in SSB4. I do not see why Sakurai would suddenly decide change the way he builds a Smash roster to please anyone who spouts about popular votes and fear mongering about hurting sales and even more fear mongering about possible backlash over adding certain characters or cutting anyone. It's almost like people were so butthurt about Brawl's roster that they are playing it safe, maybe a little too safe, about speculating SSB4's roster in order to protect their butts from getting hurt. It will always hurt at first but it will eventually feel good. It is impossible to make a Smash roster without pissing off fans. I think I can easily foresee that most of us fans will go through the five stages of grief on the Internet again when SSB4's final roster is leaked...

Denial: "No, no, X is not going to be cut because (staple of Smash/backlash)" "There is no way Y will stay out because fans want it to come back!" "Z is not going to get in because (backlash/poor sales/cannot fight)" "This leaked roster is totally fake because (aforementioned reasons)"

Anger: "Sakurai is stupid if he does this or that!" "The fans are stupid for supporting characters I hate/NOT supporting characters I love!" "Nintendo is stupid for not making games that would have made my characters relevant and thus worthy for Smash!" "You stupid troll! You are a liar! Mods, give him the banhammer!" "SAKURAIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!"

Bargaining: "I wouldn't mind cutting characters as long as they came back as DLC or costumes." "I will buy the game if X,Y,Z (or the whole alphabet) didn't get cut." "I hope X still gets in even if it's only as a last-minute clone or as a crappy character worse than Melee Mewtwo/Brawl Ganondorf, I just need to have X in the game!" "Maybe X getting cut wouldn't be so bad because they could just keep Y at best." "I wouldn't mind getting only five newcomers if it meant not cutting anyone at all." "If X got in but Y did not, I won't buy the game!"

Depression: "I hate that this is really happening to me..." "All the epic match-ups and team-ups scenarios I had in my head gone up in smoke." "It is so disheartening to know that the Male Patriarchy has won once again!" "I am going to kill myself because X is not in the game!" "Y missed his chance in SSB4 and now Y will never get in SSB5!"

Acceptance: "I guess it wasn't X's time just yet... maybe it will get in SSB5 when X gets more games!" "I hope they all come back in SSB5!" "I am hacking SSB4 to put in the characters I wanted!" "Wow! This is actually better than I thought!"

 

[ChronoBound]

The only surprise picks we got in Brawl were Pokemon Traner, Zero Suit Samus, ROB, and Snake. Everyone else was pretty much a popularly requested character. Considering that Smash 4's number of newcomers will likely be smaller than Brawl's, I am only expecting 1-3 surprise characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

The only surprise picks we got in Brawl were Pokemon Traner, Zero Suit Samus, ROB, and Snake. Everyone else was pretty much a popularly requested character. Considering that Smash 4's number of newcomers will likely be smaller than Brawl's, I am only expecting 1-3 surprise characters.

I think Lucas was an expected but not wanted newcomer for Brawl, at least in the West (outside of starmen.net), because they didn't really want Lucas to replace Ness even though they knew that Sakurai originally planned to do just that in Melee. I remember the drama over the "up until now" Dojo update. It is also clear that Chrom and Zoroark are treated like they are expected but not really wanted for SSB4... mainly because most of the Smash fans want to keep Ike and Lucario and bring back Roy and Mewtwo. I am expecting 2-4 surprise characters.

 

[The Real Gamer]

The only surprise picks we got in Brawl were Pokemon Traner, Zero Suit Samus, ROB, and Snake. Everyone else was pretty much a popularly requested character. Considering that Smash 4's number of newcomers will likely be smaller than Brawl's, I am only expecting 1-3 surprise characters.

Keep in mind that although these are the surprise characters all of them are still pretty well known in their own right (minus ROB of course, but the only obscure characters that have made it into Smash are retros so he fits the trend).

All I'm saying is that so far the trend shows that the only way lesser requested characters make it into the roster is if 1) They're still popular characters that many people would be able to identify regardless of the lack of requests (PT, ZSS, Snake, and Zelda/Sheik) or 2) They're retros (G&W, Ice Climbers, and ROB).

tl;dr - The "surprise" characters in Sm4sh are more than likely to be either retro or at least pretty recognizable. We have yet to see an obscure character that isn't retro make it into Smash.

Whether or not that trend will continue has yet to be seen.

 

[Deleted member]

@Arcadenik
10 Star Post, this is basically half this thread in a nutshell.

"All the epic match-ups and team-ups scenarios I had in my head gone up in smoke."

Hahaha, this true, if Machinima and the like are to be taken as evidence, this is what most of the casual fans see out of the Smash Bros. Franchise.

I feel the only thing that would truly cause backlash in regard to people flat out not bothering to buy it, would be taking Smash 4's mechanics, and casualizing them even more that Brawl. Like adding more random stuff like tripping, and making the game WiiMote only or something; and the "backlash" wouldn't be vindictive or anything. It would simply be because there are better investments out there competing with Smash. However, considering Nintendo's apparent stance in regard to gaming this current generation, I find this unlikely to happen.

 

[splat]

This is yet another example of why conservative rosters are too boring and predictable. They are nothing more than generic Brawl expansion rosters. Sure, all the commonly requested ones are there but I don't see anyone out from the left field. Sakurai put in some characters who were less popular and omitted some of the popular ones in Melee and Brawl. In Melee before Sakurai stuffed it with clones, he purposefully added four popular choices because of the poll (Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, Marth) and four less popular choices because they offered unique gameplay experiences in spite of getting so few votes on the poll (Zelda/Sheik, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch). He did the same thing in Brawl... less popular choices who offered unique gameplay experiences (Zero Suit Samus, Pokemon Trainer, Olimar, R.O.B.).

Sakurai is not going to put in the popularly requested characters only and ignore the rest in SSB4.

This, so much.

I told you guys long ago, support the Grunt from the Wars series. He'd fit the 'Stance' archetype from ManlySpirit's thread perfectly.

Also, ManlySpirit, your signature stretches the board in such a way that it cuts off a part of your post for me, making it illegible. Just a heads-up.

 

[Deleted member]

This, so much.

I told you guys long ago, support the Grunt from the Wars series. He'd fit the 'Stance' archetype from ManlySpirit's thread perfectly.

Also, ManlySpirit, your signature stretches the board in such a way that it cuts off a part of your post for me, making it illegible. Just a heads-up.

Ahh, thanks for the heads up. I'll fix it right away.

 

[Starphoenix]

This is yet another example of why conservative rosters are too boring and predictable. They are nothing more than generic Brawl expansion rosters.

Melee was nothing more than a Smash 64 expansion, Brawl was, for the most part, a Melee expansion; so I'm not sure why expanding upon Brawl's roster is bad or surprising?

As a side note, Pokémon Trainer and Olimar were popular requests. Most of PTs requests came from the Melee poll Sakurai held.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Manly
That's right. I was pleasantly surprised at home Nintendo is taking more of a universal appeal this time around, but you could see that in a few of their Wii games. Both Mario Galaxy games has a relatively short and easy "campaign" for veteran players, but then **** gets real after you got the minimum 60 or 70 stars.

Likewise, Skyward Sword opted for an expanded combat system. Bosses and temples were generally more difficult than Twilight Princess and you gnerally required way more strategy with fighting. At the very least, the current mechanics are very solid, but some story telling elements and areas need to be better designed to encourage more action.

I'm cautiously optimistic that Nintendo will be opting for a better sense of sweet spot with this Smash game in terms of mechanics. Hence, why Namco was brought on board. If they weren't confident with finding it, get THE developer that has consistently found comfortable areas and change over time. As far as I know, Tekken Tag 2 was precisely this in terms of appeal. Bring back the entire roster (sans Jack predecessors, Tetsujin, the first Kings and Roger Sr.), graphics are great and flashy, attacks have weight to them so you feel great landing an attack (unlike Brawl), a great tutorial mode, several options for characters and team size, and the combat is actually intuitive (though I have a martial arts background so ymmv). Likewise, its sister series Soul Calibur has a respectably sized casual fanbase.

@Starphoenix
Now, the rosters may look like expansions of their predecessors, but this, in part, as to do with those games pretty much getting the most popular characters in along with a few surprises here and there. No one probably saw the Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Zero Suit Samus (yet I wanted her), Pit (more how he turned out), Snake, and R.O.B. coming at all. Now with the big shots mostly taken care of, it'll be tough to predict this upcoming game. You've got new guys like Shulk and recently more prominent characters like Saki, Toad, Isaac, Impa, etc. Then there's still room for unexpected ones like Lip and Tom Nook.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

This, so much.

I told you guys long ago, support the Grunt from the Wars series. He'd fit the 'Stance' archetype from ManlySpirit's thread perfectly.

Also, ManlySpirit, your signature stretches the board in such a way that it cuts off a part of your post for me, making it illegible. Just a heads-up.

Agreed, playing it safe and being too much of a Brawl Extended Edition is not what SSB4 should be. Especially with what has happened in terms of returning and new franchises this past gen on the Wii and DS, and to where we currently are on Wii U and 3DS. Why would we not represent that? Why would Sakurai not want something recent, new, and different?

Not all characters from Brawl are returning. Ones I am sure are not are Red, Snake, Lucario, and Ike (maybe). There could be others, these choices may not even be in there, but it will happen. That is just how Smash goes (besides Original to Melee).

We have a 2nd Gen Remake of Pokemon now, on top of the new 5th Gen, why would those NOT be represented? It makes no sense. That is why I see choices like Gold/Ethan with Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligatr and Zoroark. There is no reason whatsoever to have a mostly Gen 1 Pokemon roster.

There was a return of Sin & Punishment and Punchout, those should be there. That roster may have had Little Mac but the S&P rep should have been Isa Jo (although I think Saki would be fine if it HAD to be him).

With newer games in franchises like Zelda, Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Fire Emblem, etc, they have more characters to add as well. Ghirahim played a big role in Skyward Sword and people love him. Bowser Jr made an impact in the Mario series this past gen. K. Rool was still around for DK. Waddle Dee and Prince Fluff were big in the 2 Wii Kirby games. Micaiah, Chrom, and Lucina are some of the big, newer, Fire Emblem character choices.

Franchises that were still around included Advance/Battalion Wars, Custom Robo, Starfy, Golden Sun, Star Fox (kind of), etc. And we saw newer franchises like Xenoblade, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents, Captain Rainbow, the Wii Series, Disaster, and Dynamic Slash. So characters like Shulk, Aeron, Zael, Matthew, Krystal, Andy, Soldier, The EBA, Captain Rainbow, Ray Mk3, Ray, the Mii, etc are possible choices.

Series like those should be in or at least have ATs.

There is just too much to leave out if you play it safe.

-As for the Grunt, as long as the Advance Wars costume is there I think it would be cool. I would rather have Andy though.-

 

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This is yet another example of why conservative rosters are too boring and predictable. They are nothing more than generic Brawl expansion rosters. Sure, all the commonly requested ones are there but I don't see anyone out from the left field. Sakurai put in some characters who were less popular and omitted some of the popular ones in Melee and Brawl. In Melee before Sakurai stuffed it with clones, he purposefully added four popular choices because of the poll (Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, Marth) and four less popular choices because they offered unique gameplay experiences in spite of getting so few votes on the poll (Zelda/Sheik, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch). He did the same thing in Brawl... less popular choices who offered unique gameplay experiences (Zero Suit Samus, Pokemon Trainer, Olimar, R.O.B.).

I'm not trying to pin this solely on you but all of these is very subjective. The common gamer doesn't know names like Takamaru, Saki, Issac, Little Mac (if you're Japanese). There are also the characters that Casual gamers wouldn't know unless they dug somewhat into a series: Ridley, Palutena, Samurai Goroh, and depending on how old you are, K. Rool and Dixie.

What seems conservative to us (Nintendo fanboys), is liberal to most. Either way this is speculation, you can't make wild guesses without looking dumb at the same time. I'm not saying we won't get characters out of nowhere, but at this point in time why would you expect anything else coming from rosters?