Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[ChronoBound]

They were allowed to vote for any game so long as it was a RPG.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel Toad currently has the best shot as well, but not for some bullroar excuse such as using the "mainstream" game crap.

It's mainly because he was waiting in line the longest in terms of request, and everyone that was ahead of him (Bowser, Peach, Wario) are already in.
Characters like Bowser Jr., Waluigi, and Paper Mario didn't get heavily requested until Brawl's time. (Though to be fair, none of them existed during the pre-Melee poll like Toad did)

 

[Starphoenix]

I support Toad, because he is my Mario character of choice in just about every other game I play. Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Sports Mix, etc. I still feel he will be Sakurai's choice if he decides to go with another Mario character. That's always been my opinion. I think the New Super Mario Bros helped me cement my idea on how he could function, where as he seemed a little limited before.

 

[Deleted member]

I have to think that if Waluigi were to ever have his own game, it'd have to be a effing weird game. Almost like an anti-game. Something so weird that WarioWare thinks it's strange.

There's been an idea floating around on /v/ about a Wario & Waluigi GTA-clone in the Mushroom Kingdom. It actually sounds like a very neat idea, and I would love to play a game like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ7QuOqbLgI

What is that for? That looks cool.

Point to me where any Pokemon character other than the Trainer and Pikachu had their own games.
How about Zelda/Sheik or Ganondorf?
Falco or Wolf?
Meta Knight, Dedede?
Heck, point to where BOWSER had his own game. And no, Bowser's Inside Story doesn't count, as it really wasn't his game, it was Mario's and Luigi's.

Ridley shouldn't be in Smash, since he's not a star of Nintendo, or at least until he has his own game.
Neither should K. Rool.

@Everyone else: I'm not arguing that Waluigi's role in his series is comparable to these characters; just that this guy's argument is heavily flawed.

Problem is Waluigi doesn't have his game, nor any prominent roles in the games he's in. He's about as relevant as Dry Bones.

They were allowed to vote for any game so long as it was a RPG.

And no one said Deus Ex or Daggerfall?

.... ehgh...

Well, at the same time I'm not too surprised, as much as I hate to sound like a hipster, those game ARE some of the best of the genre, but they are rather niche with the mainstream crowd.

 

[Deleted member]

You seem to have failed to read that last sentence, Manly.

Also, point to me where Jigglypuff had any prominent roles in the games it has been in. I mean, at least Mewtwo has been a major boss if not the final one in some spin-offs, Lucario has had a few major roles, and even Pichu had a major role in a Pokemon Ranger title.

In comparison, Waluigi is the driving force behind the plot of DDR Mario Mix, and was the surprise main antagonist of Mario Party 3.

 

[ChronoBound]

And no one said Deus Ex or Daggerfall?

.... ehgh...

Well, at the same time I'm not too surprised, as much as I hate to sound like a hipster, those game ARE some of the best of the genre, but they are rather niche with the mainstream crowd.

You constantly posting anime pics is dumb and annoying.

Also, I would hardly call Persona 4 and Xenoblade mainstream.

 

[8-peacock-8]

@ManlySpirit

Just showing off that Waluigi could have an amazing game if Nintendo even tried to make one. (The video is for a fan game)

Also....
>Persona 4
>Main stream?

Wat?

 

[ChronoBound]

I support Toad, because he is my Mario character of choice in just about every other game I play. Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Sports Mix, etc. I still feel he will be Sakurai's choice if he decides to go with another Mario character. That's always been my opinion. I think the New Super Mario Bros helped me cement my idea on how he could function, where as he seemed a little limited before.

There is far more merchandise of Toad than of Waluigi or Bowser Jr., which just shows how much appeal the character has outside of online forums. The little guy is very iconic despite being a side character within the platformers. I do agree that if he is in Smash 4, a lot of his moveset will be based off of stuff from the New Super Mario Bros. games, I can especially see the propeller block being his recovery move.

 

[Deleted member]

You seem to have failed to read that last sentence, Manly.

Nah dude, I read it, I just picked up the counter-argument before we get a Waluigi supporter picking up from where you left off.

You constantly posting anime pics is dumb and annoying.

Also, I would hardly call Persona 4 and Xenoblade mainstream.

U MAD BRO??

Anyway, you kidding? Since P4A and the Persona 4 anime, P4 blew up. Also the whole Project Rainfall certainly brought a lot of attention to Xenoblade.

Compare this to Daggerfall which dispite Skyrim's and Oblivion's popularity, many don't even know exist. Even though it's a FREE game.

Same goes for Deus Ex, Human Revoultion was very popular, but many think its a stand-alone game and don't even realize that it is the prequel to a PC master-piece.


@peacock

It's certainly the most popular of the SMT series, especially thanks to the anime adaptation, and it has a bit of a cult following on the internet.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a good feeling about Toad getting in this time around.

Looking at his massive popularity within the Mario series (along with being a popular request for the Mario franchise) along with him being the most important Mario character not playable yet (it'd be hard to imagine the next mainstream Mario game without him), it seems as he is due for a playable spot this game. The only reason why I feel he may miss is if Sakurai feels he wouldn't work out, but even with that he still has a decent chance.

 

[Gamingboy]

Also, point to me where Jigglypuff had any prominent roles in the games it has been in. I mean, at least Mewtwo has been a major boss if not the final one in some spin-offs, Lucario has had a few major roles, and even Pichu had a major role in a Pokemon Ranger title.

It is kind of weird that Jigglypuff has never been a player character in the Mystery Dungeon series...

 

[ChronoBound]

Manlyspirit's beef with NeoGAF's RPG picks pretty much boil down to, "their opinion is different from mine, therefore it sucks."

I am still scratching my head how you can call Xenoblade mainstream when the game did not even break 200K in Japan, and probably did not sell much better in other regions.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Nah dude, I read it, I just picked up the counter-argument before we get a Waluigi supporter picking up from where you left off.

U MAD BRO??

Anyway, you kidding? Since P4A and the Persona 4 anime, P4 blew up. Also the whole Project Rainfall certainly brought a lot of attention to Xenoblade.

Compare this to Daggerfall which dispite Skyrim's and Oblivion's popularity, many don't even know exist. Even though it's a FREE game.

Same goes for Deus Ex, Human Revoultion was very popular, but many think its a stand-alone game and don't even realize that it is the prequel to a PC master-piece.

As far as Persona 4 is concerned, it's still an obscure game. (More people think it's a fighting game series for some reason.)

So basically, Persona shouldn't be on the RPG list if we go by what the mainstream fanbase (People who only played/heard of Arena) thinks it is.

 

[Deleted member]

@Arcadenik: Krystal and Wolf's popularity were not equal as Wolf was among the Top 5 in Japan while Krystal was not so requested. Even if Sakurai had known very well of Krystal, Wolf still would have gotten in over Krystal in Brawl (although Krystal might have still had a chance but that would have depended if Sakurai was willing to add a fourth spot for Star Fox).

 

[ChronoBound]

I have a good feeling about Toad getting in this time around.

Looking at his massive popularity within the Mario series (along with being a popular request for the Mario franchise) along with him being the most important Mario character not playable yet (it'd be hard to imagine the next mainstream Mario game without him), it seems as he is due for a playable spot this game. The only reason why I feel he may miss is if Sakurai feels he wouldn't work out, but even with that he still has a decent chance.

I have a feeling we will either get Toad or no Mario newcomer at all. Toad from his trophy profiles also seems like he has a sort of gimmick to him (namely being small, light, and having a short-range, yet being really strong).

 

[Deleted member]

Manlyspirit's beef with NeoGAF's RPG picks pretty much boil down to, "their opinion is different from mine, therefore it sucks."

I am still scratching my head how you can call Xenoblade mainstream when the game did not even break 200K in Japan, and probably did not sell much better in other regions.

Dude, I was defending NeoGAFs choices on the fact that they may not know about the other games I mentioned... But if you want we can go by what you're impying: Daggerfall and Deus Ex are very well known popular games and NeoGAF has **** taste.

As far as Persona 4 is concerned, it's still an obscure game. (More people think it's a fighting game for some reason.
Example: on the official Sony Smash bros forum, in real life, etc. all think it's a fighting game. derp)

So basically, Persona shouldn't be on the RPG list if we go by what the mainstream fanbase thinks it is. derp

Persona 4 is still rather obscure in contrast to Final Fantasy, Tales of, Dragon Quest and Pokemon, but in the SMT series I think it's the most well known. I think Deus Ex, and Daggerfall are more obscure. I say Persona 4 is about as obscure as say... Earthbound, both are known mostly because of their fighting game adaptations.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I feel as Toad should have a shot, but I worry that Bowser Jr. may be picked instead due to whatever reason. Seriously, I hope not since we need a break from that brat hogging the screen time.

 

[ChronoBound]

Dude, I was defending NeoGAFs choices on the fact that they may not know about the other games I mentioned... But if you want we can go by what you're impying: Daggerfall and Deus Ex are very well known popular games and NeoGAF has **** taste.

No, I am pretty sure you were whining about Xenoblade and Persona 4 being as high as they were, don't bs your way out of this, and you need to stop trying to pick a fight with people all the time. Everyone is tired with your crap.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Persona 4 is still rather obscure in contrast to Final Fantasy, Tales of, Dragon Quest and Pokemon, but in the SMT series I think it's the most well known. I think Deus Ex, and Daggerfall are more obscure. I say Persona 4 is about as obscure as say... Earthbound, both are known mostly because of their fighting game adaptations.

Anyway, yeah, i agree with what you said.

 

[Deleted member]

No, I am pretty sure you were whining about Xenoblade and Persona 4 being as high as they were, don't bs your way out of this, and you need to stop trying to pick a fight with people all the time. Everyone is tired with your crap.

Whatever... anyway, you got a link to the thread? I wanna sift through the choices mentioned.

 

[Deleted member]

It is kind of weird that Jigglypuff has never been a player character in the Mystery Dungeon series...

In the long run, Meowth would have been a much better choice in the long run, and because of Jigglypuff being in 64, he pretty much missed his chance and Jiggz is here to stay.

 

[---]

I don't like Toad and I don't see how he could really fight but I do agree he's earned it. If we do get him I just hope that other needy series (and Mewtwo) would also get what's coming to them as well.

 

[ChronoBound]

Whatever... anyway, you got a link to the thread? I wanna sift through the choices mentioned.

Once again, you are having problems with reading comprehension. What part of "every RPG could be voted on" did you not understand?

Here is the topic with the full results:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503191

Secondly, stop picking fights with people.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't like Toad and I don't see how he could really fight but I do agree he's earned it. If we do get him I just hope that other needy series (and Mewtwo) would also get what's coming to them as well.

Someone over in the Character Archetypes thread mentioned him as the "Glass Cannon"

Essentially a speedy Power focused Beatdown character with low defenses and some Grappling moves. Like a Mini-C.Falcon with some Grapple.

I really liked that idea to be honest, and if Toad got in like that, I'd be OK with it. Personally I prefer Paper Mario if we MUST get a Mario rep, but Glass Cannon Toad sits well with me too.

 

[8-peacock-8]

@Habanero: I agree with you on that. Bowser Jr. needs to leave for a while.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I was the one that mentioned Toad as a glass cannon, mainly because I based the idea around varies games that showed Toad with super strength and high speed. The glass cannon thing is inspired from Super Mario Bros. 2, where Toad was the strongest and fastest character with the worst jumping capabilities. As such I presume something of that sort would be in Super Smash Bros.

 

[ChronoBound]

I was the one that mentioned Toad as a glass cannon, mainly because I based the idea around varies games that showed Toad with super strength and high speed. The glass cannon thing is inspired from Super Mario Bros. 2, where Toad was the strongest and fastest character with the worst jump.

I always imagined Toad as a light character who is fast and strong, but has a poor jumping recovery as a result of Super Mario Bros 2. His propeller block recovery move would have good vertical recovery but poor horizontal recovery.

 

[Deleted member]

I was the one that mentioned Toad as a glass cannon, mainly because I based the idea around varies games that showed Toad with super strength and high speed. The glass cannon thing is inspired from Super Mario Bros. 2, where Toad was the strongest and fastest character with the worst jumping capabilities. As such I presume something of that sort would be in Super Smash Bros.

Exactly, it was you, I loved your idea for Toad.

 

[Frostwraith]

Toad is a good example of a Glass Cannon in SMB2. High strength and speed, but low defensive capabilities.

I can agree with ChronoBound. Even in NSMBW, the propeller doesn't give much horizontal distance.

Check out more information and examples here.

Off topic, but... Happy New Year (kinda late, I know, I haven't posted here much... -_-

 

[Deleted member]

I have a feeling we will either get Toad or no Mario newcomer at all. Toad from his trophy profiles also seems like he has a sort of gimmick to him (namely being small, light, and having a short-range, yet being really strong).

This is pretty much what I feel as well.

Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario both have merits, but I don't think that what they do have is enough for them to get in, especially when Sakurai has expressed concerns about overreping Mario reps.

 

[Gamingboy]

I feel like we definitely will get more Mario characters. It's popular enough that it basically has to. Same goes for Pokemon and (to a lesser degree) Zelda.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Waluigi could end up being in the Top 5 most wanted newcomers for Smash 4 depending on:
- All of Brawl's characters come back (plus Mewtwo and Roy) (any character that does return for Brawl will be one of the most wanted characters for Smash 5)
- Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man, Palutena, Toad (this one is critical, since if there is no newcomer for Mario added in Smash 4, many people will think the Mario series may never get another character) are added

 

[---]

I've always wondered about this, but what was the Pre-Brawl Mario stuff like in comparison to now?

 

[Deleted member]

I've always wondered this, but what was the Pre-Brawl Mario stuff like in comparison to now?

From what I recall, it was very similar to now. Except it was Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario, and Waluigi had less support.

Also, everyone assumed (correctly) that Doc wouldn't return.

 

[ChronoBound]

I've always wondered this, but what was the Pre-Brawl Mario stuff like in comparison to now?

Geno had the loudest fanbase of all the possible Mario newcomers and had the most support (a lot of it was a bandwagon though). Next was Bowser Jr., and then was Paper Mario. Paper Mario was the second most supported Mario character on GameFAQs, while Bowser Jr. was the second most supported Mario character on Nsider and SmashBoards. Toad had supporters too, but they were relatively quiet. Toad's return to prominence with the New Super Mario Bros. series really made them feel a lot better about the character's prospects.

There were people asking for Waluigi too (especially on SmashBoards), though whenever someone brought up Waluigi they were met with ridicule or mockery, due to the character not having any sort of importance. I think the reason behind the much softer criticism Waluigi receives now is due to the newcomer pool have much less big names than it did during pre-Brawl.

 

[Frostwraith]

I've always wondered about this, but what was the Pre-Brawl Mario stuff like in comparison to now?

from what I remember, not much different from now... the main supported characters were Bowser Jr. / Shadow Mario, Toad, Waluigi...

There haven't been much new characters in the franchise, really.

EDIT: With ChronoBound's post, how couldn't I remember the Geno supporters? o.o

 

[Gamingboy]

Oh, Geno. I remember that.... never really made sense. I mean, I like MaRPGio as much as the next guy, but, seriously? It all seemed a pipe-dream to expect him to be in.

 

[Frostwraith]

People went crazy with speculation once Snake was revealed. Now, there doesn't seem to be much support for him...

Of course, things may change with the first trailer of the game...

 

[SmashChu]

U MAD BRO??

Reaction images don't work outside of an anonymous message board. You seem more like a kid when you do that.

It's funny. Chrono and Manly's fighting is like looking at Kuma and I. heh.

I've always wondered about this, but what was the Pre-Brawl Mario stuff like in comparison to now?

Chrono did a great job. None of the Mario characters stood out. Paper Mario was what I called an Nsider choice. It was one of those ideas that was only really liked by those folks but they made it seem as he was more popular than he was. Tom Nook is another example. Bowser Jr. came up sometimes. Actually, if anyone has fallen, it's him. He used to be even with the rest, but it seems like has been hit hard. Same for Paper Mario. Toad and Waluigi didn't get many request.

As far as "Who deserves to be in," it would be Toad. He has a longer history with the series. The problem is I don't think Sakurai will turn him into a full fledged characters. Waluigi is interesting. He used to be disliked during Brawl. Now, he is defiantly a contender in terms of popularity (you can see the various poll for that). I think people have warmed up to him, which is why there is demand for him to be in a main Mario title. That's the only thing holding him back.

 

[ChronoBound]

Now, he is defiantly a contender in terms of popularity (you can see the various poll for that). I think people have warmed up to him, which is why there is demand for him to be in a main Mario title. That's the only thing holding him back.

The problem with the popularity thing is that Toad, Paper Mario, and Bowser Jr. are competitive with him on that front. He is not more requested than them, but his supporters are certainly louder than the others.