Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Robert of Normandy]

Jeez, I wish I was more familiar with the Fire Emblem series so I could contribute something useful to the debate

Lol, this discussion should probably be taken somewhere else, but I'm not sure where, and there isn't much else to discuss right now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sure you can contribute, who do you prefer, Roy or Ike? Better to ask 'outsiders' from Fire Emblem sometimes to know what the general public thinks so to say.

 

[Aipom]

Sure you can contribute, who do you prefer, Roy or Ike? Better to ask 'outsiders' from Fire Emblem sometimes to know what the general public thinks so to say.

Eh, I'm more of an Ike guy than Roy. He seemed more differentiated from Marth than Roy was.

Then again, Roy could always be changed around; but if Roy doesn't come back, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I think I'd probably want a shot at a new 3rd rep while keeping Marth and Ike

 

[3Bismyname]

coming from a guy who has only played Shadow Dragon, when it comes to Smash i prefer Ike to Roy and I really don't see why people want Roy back so much. but that is just me, i don't get his appeal.

 

[Aipom]

coming from a guy who has only played Shadow Dragon, when it comes to Smash i prefer Ike to Roy and I really don't see why people want Roy back so much. but that is just me, i don't get his appeal.

I feel the same way, except I've played none of the games. Alot of the general public is probably in the same boat as us, either having played 1 or none of the games, so I feel it could still go any way

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'm not much of an FE fan myself, I've only really played 7, 12, and some of 3, though I know a bit about some of the others.

Sepaking of outsiders, I do know a few who actually think Marth should be cut so Roy could come back. This will never happen(since Marth has become the "main" Lord of the serie), but I think it's interesting that there are people who feel this way.

 

[3Bismyname]

Marth is my main man. I never want to see him dropped. thats probably another reason why i didnt care about Roy getting dropped.

 

[Gamingboy]

I have to think that the fact Marth was in the first FE game means he's probably going to be a staple. It's the other slots of FE that are probably up for debate.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hohoo, this is really starting to remind of good ol' days of long debates back in the old thread: with me sleeping overnight while at the other side of the earth you guys discuss so much pages about things.

Anyway, I'm still clearing FE7 (though actually I'm close to the Eliwood Mode's final chapters) and I had to lament on the fact that they couldn't include most characters in the last game (but it's understandable because they weren't existing back then technically for developers) But yeah, "Canas was killed by continuity errors!". Now I can make a headcanon where he is scared of cold climate and snowy days!
(I miss my Lucius and Rebecca though, kickass units, serious. And so many others too. Lyn being absent had me confused for quite a while too.)

FE4 could use a remake too because I think it's one of those FE-games most people outside of FE-fandom are unknown about but is dang good as I've heard. It could use some more recognition.

Anyway I kinda looking to what happens with Roy and Ike. Dunno really which I prefer tho (because Roy really should get decloned up to me)

 

[peeup]

Best of ideas: a raw shock (or perhaps Harry Mason) from Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. Or at least a Silent Hill stage, that would be diggity diggity dopesauce.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

FE4 could use a remake too because I think it's one of those FE-games most people outside of FE-fandom are unknown about but is dang good as I've heard. It could use some more recognition.)

I don't think FE4 needs to be remade, just re-released. Of course, Nintendo isn't willing to put any effort in their VC releases, so a remake is probably the most likely.

 

[Aipom]

I'm not much of an FE fan myself, I've only really played 7, 12, and some of 3, though I know a bit about some of the others.

Sepaking of outsiders, I do know a few who actually think Marth should be cut so Roy could come back. This will never happen(since Marth has become the "main" Lord of the serie), but I think it's interesting that there are people who feel this way.

Throughout all Fire Emblem debates, Marth should always remain playable. I wouldn't want to see him removed

 

[FlareHabanero]

Marth is too fabulous to leave Super Smash Bros. at this point. Fangirls in particular would be upset over the lack of fabulosity in the roster.

 

[Aipom]

I'm kind of interested to see how the conversation goes from this question....

How does everyone feel about the inclusion of third party characters? (In your answer, feel free to include your personal preference and their overall likelihood, if they are different answers)

I for one hope there will not be any third party characters in SSB4. Nintendo has a rich collection of characters from numerous series, so I don't see the need to spend time & money negotiating with third party developers to get their characters in the game.

However, I will admit that I think it's more likely than not that there will be a couple of third party characters in the game

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Throughout all Fire Emblem debates, Marth should always remain playable. I wouldn't want to see him removed

I'm aware of that, and I don't think he should/will be cut either.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Marth is too fabulous to leave Super Smash Bros. at this point. Fangirls in particular would be upset over the lack of fabulosity in the roster.

Marth pales in comparison to the fabulousness of Ghirahim

Marth shouldn't leave, it would be like any of the main characters of other series leaving. He is the character who started Fire Emblem.

 

[Deleted member]

No Marth in Smash 4, no buy. But he'll make it back so I'm okay.

As for third-party characters, I love the concepts of them. Hoping for Sonic, Snake and Mega Man this time around. That said, third-parties are very difficult to deal with, so there should be no more than four.

 

[Starphoenix]

I've become worried that if Megaman is in Super Smash Bros, that he is going to become an 8-bit, Game and Watch style character. You'd think something like this wouldn't happen, but I have this sickening feeling it is going to be considered to some extent...

 

[ChronoBound]

I've become worried that if Megaman is in Super Smash Bros, that he is going to become an 8-bit, Game and Watch style character. You'd think something like this wouldn't happen, but I have this sickening feeling it is going to be considered to some extent...

I strongly doubt that will happen. There would be a huge backlash if that happened, and basically defeat all the hype that Mega Man in Smash Bros. would bring.

What I am more worried about is Sakurai deciding for Smash 4 to be a reboot, and decides to cut out a lot of Brawl's characters, adds in a handful of newcomers and we end up with a roster that is about the same size as Brawl's.

 

[Aipom]

I doubt he would do a reboot to that extent since most of the characters are staples to their respective series. There would be a large amount backlash if he cut too large of a portion of the Brawl roster

 

[ChronoBound]

I doubt he would do a reboot to that extent since most of the characters are staples to their respective series. There would be a large amount backlash if he cut too large of a portion of the Brawl roster

At absolute worst, the characters I could see him cutting for a "reboot" would be:

Melee:
Falco

Brawl:
Snake
Sonic
Ike
Lucario
Toon Link
Wolf
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
ROB

 

[Aipom]

I guess at worst that list wouldn't be too terrible, but I still doubt that he'll reboot that much

 

[ChronoBound]

The thing about a Mario newcomer is that there is no character that even has an advantage in popularity. Even on GameFAQs, which is regarded as a Waluigi stronghold, has popular support basically evenly divided between Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Waluigi:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64949694

 

[Deleted member]

I've become worried that if Megaman is in Super Smash Bros, that he is going to become an 8-bit, Game and Watch style character. You'd think something like this wouldn't happen, but I have this sickening feeling it is going to be considered to some extent...

That'd be something to worry about if Capcom was in charge. Thankfully, I don't expect such trolling to happen. I see it more likely that Mega Man doesn't appear at all.

I strongly doubt that will happen. There would be a huge backlash if that happened, and basically defeat all the hype that Mega Man in Smash Bros. would bring.

What I am more worried about is Sakurai deciding for Smash 4 to be a reboot, and decides to cut out a lot of Brawl's characters, adds in a handful of newcomers and we end up with a roster that is about the same size as Brawl's.

I think even Sakurai wouldn't cut such a large amount of characters. A roster with less than forty-four characters (transformation included) and more than three cuts would drive people away from the game.

The thing about a Mario newcomer is that there is no character that even has an advantage in popularity. Even on GameFAQs, which is regarded as a Waluigi stronghold, has popular support basically evenly divided between Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and Waluigi:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/64949694

This is why I think that if there's going to be a Mario newcomer, it won't be because of popularity, but because of importance (which is why I strongly doubt Waluigi given his lack of importance to the Mario series).

 

[Opossum]

Sort of interesting to see that they pretty much stayed even. Waluigi only won by like two votes.


I never got the popularity for Daisy over there...

 

[Deleted member]

I never got the popularity for Daisy over there...

Most of it is just used as a counter to Waluigi.
I'm not joking, people have been trying to spam Daisy to Waluigi levels over the idea that she "deserves it more" for being in Super Mario Land.

 

[Arcadenik]

That'd be something to worry about if Capcom was in charge. Thankfully, I don't expect such trolling to happen. I see it more likely that Mega Man doesn't appear at all.I think even Sakurai wouldn't cut such a large amount of characters. A roster with less than forty-four characters (transformation included) and more than three cuts would drive people away from the game.
This is why I think that if there's going to be a Mario newcomer, it won't be because of popularity, but because of importance (which is why I strongly doubt Waluigi given his lack of importance to the Mario series).

Yes, that's right. And this is where Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario come in.

Toad - a series staple since 1985, recurring playable roles in post-Brawl main games - New Super Mario Bros. Wii+U, appears as a Nintendo costume in Tekken Tag Tournament 2, cameo appearance in Scribblenauts Unlimited

Bowser Jr. - a series staple since 2002, recurring boss roles in post-Brawl main games - Super Mario Galaxy 2 and New Super Mario Bros. Wii+U plus Paper Mario Sticker Star

Paper Mario - popular spin-off series since 2000, got a post-Brawl game this year with Paper Mario Sticker Star

I'm sorry but these three have better credentials than Waluigi does.

 

[FlareHabanero]

On the bright side, at least it's not Baby Daisy. But regardless, anything with Daisy is not exactly good. We already have the equally annoying Peach, so why bring in Daisy to the mix?

 

[Deleted member]

Dr. Mario - popular spin-off series since 1990, got two post-Brawl games, recently got a rerelease of the old GB title for 3DS Virtual Console, was in Melee and planned for Brawl.


The underlined puts him above everyone. Especially when you factor in Kinopio doesn't have the playable role in NSMBW and U, but Kiiro Kino and Ao Kino instead.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yuui: And to think he was just an alternative costume...

(-l.l-);

 

[Deleted member]

Yuui: And to think he was just an alternative costume...

(-l.l-);

Except that he wasn't. Overalls Wario was an alternate costume. Dr. Mario was his own character.
Unless you're going to tell me that Evil Ryu and Oni Akuma are alternate costumes in SSF4: Arcade Edition?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I meant that back in Melee-development he was meant to be an alternative costume first because of one of the developer's suggestion but they found it odd for Doc to shoot fireballs which made them move on to make him more like his own character...

 

[Deleted member]

I meant that back in Melee-development he was meant to be an alternative costume first because of one of the developer's suggestion but they found it odd for Doc to shoot fireballs which made them move on to make him more like his own character...

No, he was REQUESTED as an alt costume BY A FAN. Sakurai said that wouldn't make sense.
He was never going to be developed as one.

 

[ChronoBound]

I meant that back in Melee-development he was meant to be an alternative costume first because of one of the developer's suggestion but they found it odd for Doc to shoot fireballs which made them move on to make him more like his own character...

No it was not. Before Melee entered development, Sakurai opened a journal for fan suggestions for Smash Bros. 2.

One of the suggestions was for Mario to have a Dr. Mario costume.

Sakurai's response to this was:
"Dr. Mario would not work as a costume because he does not throw fireballs."

Late in Melee's development, Sakurai decided to add in clones to beef up the size of the roster. He chose Dr. Mario because he really liked the remixed Dr. Mario theme that was made earlier in development and thought Dr. Mario was a great classic puzzle game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Ah, thanks for fixin' that Chrono. (And Yuui).

Anyway, you think they'll include Doc again? I'd find it redundant though, why have 2 Marios while a 3rd is already being suggested? (Paper Mario)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Dr. Mario would fit better as an alternate costume at this point. You can bring up the Sakurai comment all you want, but there is no benefit at all to include the character.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ah, thanks for fixin' that Chrono. (And Yuui).

Anyway, you think they'll include Doc again? I'd find it redundant though, why have 2 Marios while a 3rd is already being suggested? (Paper Mario)

I don't know. I was not even expecting Sakurai to even have been strongly considering bringing back Dr. Mario for Brawl.

I think Dr. Mario probably won't find himself on the main roster, unless Sakurai wants to bring back EVERY character that has ever been playable in Smash Bros.

I also think its possible Sakurai has changed his opinion on thinking Dr. Mario would not work as a costume, and Doc gets in as a Mario costume.

Its also possible he could end up as a DLC character since he is so similar to Mario.

However, overall, I don't expect Dr. Mario show up.

 

[Aipom]

Dr. Mario is several spots down the list on my Mario newcomer wishlist. I'm not sure if he's the most likely Mario newcomer, but he does have his past & planned Smash appearances going for him

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing as Doc was planned for Brawl and was in Melee, I'm pretty sure that if there is going to be 2nd Mario again, it's Doc, not Papes.

Note, that's IF there's going to be one.

I mean, while Doc is not nearly as requested to return as Mewtwo and Roy (far from it, actually), he still WAS planned for Brawl. We know that Sakurai looks back at old concepts he couldn't quite do and characters he couldn't quite add.

As for the costume BS, it's not going to happen. Doc's either coming in with his differences intact, or he's not coming at all.
Best scenario: Dr. Mario doesn't appear on the CSS so the purists don't have any reason to complain, but while selecting Mario, before selecting him, you can toggle between the two by pressing the Start Button or it's equivlant, similar to how Sonic the Fighters HD handles Metal Sonic, Eggman, and Honey, characters not originally playable, and thus do not have spots on the CSS.
That way, Doc gets in, he's not taking up space on the CSS, he's got his gameplay differences, everyone wins.

EDIT: And to suggest that he will only get in if EVERYONE comes back is asinine. Young Link and Pichu were not planned for Brawl, Doc was. He's the only one of the three that could come back.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If the gameplay difference is such a big deal, why not give Mario all of Dr. Mario's characteristics instead of making two redundant characters?