Ronike's Test Subject Mafia: Game's Over: Town Wins! Nick pulls a Hando

[Tom]

you just ****ing stepped in it son

Call me when some serious discussion starts.

Nicholas, do you seriously mean to discount all previous posts? Would you seriously say that were not out of the RVS yet?

What do you have against a Riddle wagon?

 

[Rockin]

Erm, seriously

why does Marshy have that many votes? >_>

 

[Nicholas1024]

Nicholas, do you seriously mean to discount all previous posts? Would you seriously say that were not out of the RVS yet?

What do you have against a Riddle wagon?

No, there were a few good posts back there, but random bandwagoning is not my idea of serious scumhunting.

 

[Tom]

No, there were a few good posts back there, but random bandwagoning is not my idea of serious scumhunting.

avoided the question in vague fashion. what do you have against a riddle wagon? what is your idea of serious scumhunting at this point in the game? you dont have a vote on anyone. you aren't pressuring anyone. you aren't making any generalizations. you are simply stagnating anything other people are doing my dismissing it as "not serious."

unvote vote: nicholas until you fix yourself

 

[#HBC | marshy]

plus your unvote was sissy

unvote tom vote nick

 

[Ronike]

Sorry, forgot to tell you the deadline. Two weeks from the 8th, so the September 23 at 12:01 am.

 

[Nicholas1024]

avoided the question in vague fashion. what do you have against a riddle wagon? what is your idea of serious scumhunting at this point in the game? you dont have a vote on anyone. you aren't pressuring anyone. you aren't making any generalizations. you are simply stagnating anything other people are doing my dismissing it as "not serious."

unvote vote: nicholas until you fix yourself

Let me get this straight. Your idea of scumhunting (aka: ideal townie play) at this point is random voting (which apparently, people are supposed to take completely seriously), to "pressure" people into doing... something. You also agree with making vague generalizations about... something. You think I am "stagnating" discussion? Only if you consider not taking part in random votes/jokes as "stagnating" them. Random bandwagons seem to be chugging along fine without me. As for what I have against a riddle wagon, absolutely nothing. I couldn't care less if you chose Riddle, KevinM , Marshy, or *insert random person here*. However, I don't care to throw my vote on someone, unless I have a legitimate reason to do so.

As for my idea of serious scumhunting at this point? I'm doing it right now. I find a topic of serious conversation or a scumtell, and then talk about it.

As far as us not being out of the RVS (random vote stage, right?), your vote on Riddle would have qualified as pretty random. As would almost all the votes before it. I wouldn't discount everything post before this point, as there were a couple of serious questions, but most of it was just that, random voting. In fact, its quite inconsistent how in one post you randomly choose riddle as your vote, and then ask me in your very next post, "Would you seriously say we're not out of the RVS stage yet?"

Vote Tom for your inconsistency and your description of what constitutes "scumhunting".

@Marshy
You were at L-2 before I unvoted. I don't mind joke vote wagons (my vote on you at the time, had been a joke vote), but I don't like carrying them to L-2 or L-1, because it gives scum an easy chance to hammer. This could be effective if they used a newbie to do so, because they could plead "Oh, I didn't realize he was at L-1!" In addition to that, some idiot townie could come along and hammer without realizing he was doing so. Does it really cost anything to be cautious?

 

[karthik_king]

I dont CARE about the newbie card. They hammer on a pressure bandwagon they are getting lynched.

 

[Riddle]

You know what I want? Riddle wagon. I think we can all agree on that.

unvote vote Riddle

I'm down with a Riddle wagon too. What a loser, seriously he's like the worst mafia player I've ever seen. Thats why I have my vote on him. Even if he is technically on town's side he still helps scum by being so stupid.

And he's only 14? What the ****. You can't believe a single thing he says. We all know 14 year olds are all really dumb and their opinions are useless.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

So 3-year olds are smarter????

 

[SwordsRbroken]

You know what I want? Riddle wagon. I think we can all agree on that.

unvote vote Riddle

ALLL AABBBBOOOORRRDDD!!!!


unvote

Vote Riddle

 

[Tom]

Let me get this straight. Your idea of scumhunting (aka: ideal townie play) at this point is random voting (which apparently, people are supposed to take completely seriously), to "pressure" people into doing... something. You also agree with making vague generalizations about... something.

Yes.

You think I am "stagnating" discussion? Only if you consider not taking part in random votes/jokes as "stagnating" them.

Yes, that would be the definition of stagnating. If you are discounting bandwagons as solely "random jokes/votes" then you either don't understand the merit of the first quote in this post or you don't know how to play.

Random bandwagons seem to be chugging along fine without me. As for what I have against a riddle wagon, absolutely nothing.

Then why don't you join it? In the first quote in this post, you seriously defined WHY we bandwagon. We do it to pressure people into responses.

I couldn't care less if you chose Riddle, KevinM , Marshy, or *insert random person here*. However, I don't care to throw my vote on someone, unless I have a legitimate reason to do so.

A bandwagon is a legitimate reason, as you described above. You are contradictory not only to good play but to yourself.

As for my idea of serious scumhunting at this point? I'm doing it right now. I find a topic of serious conversation or a scumtell, and then talk about it.

You are only doing it right now because a) it evolved out of the random bandwagons and b) I called you out on your terrible, awful opinion on scumhunting and bandwagons.

As far as us not being out of the RVS (random vote stage, right?), your vote on Riddle would have qualified as pretty random. As would almost all the votes before it.

No. Wrong. I find it RIDICULOUS how you can state in the very beginning of your post the purpose of a bandwagon and then state that my attempts to start a bandwagon are "random." Random aka without purpose? But you just previously EXPLAINED the purpose?

I wouldn't discount everything post before this point, as there were a couple of serious questions, but most of it was just that, random voting. In fact, its quite inconsistent how in one post you randomly choose riddle as your vote, and then ask me in your very next post, "Would you seriously say we're not out of the RVS stage yet?"

Vote Tom for your inconsistency and your description of what constitutes "scumhunting".

See all of my explanations above as to why you are the one who is inconsistent and at one point understands scumhunting and then later fails to understand it. My vote on you stays.

@Marshy
You were at L-2 before I unvoted. I don't mind joke vote wagons (my vote on you at the time, had been a joke vote), but I don't like carrying them to L-2 or L-1, because it gives scum an easy chance to hammer. This could be effective if they used a newbie to do so, because they could plead "Oh, I didn't realize he was at L-1!" In addition to that, some idiot townie could come along and hammer without realizing he was doing so. Does it really cost anything to be cautious?

I LOVE bandwagons that hit L-2, L-1, because if someone hammered, the information that we would receive from that bandwagon would be FAR more important than the role that the dead person now has (considering he MOST likely has a vanilla role, and then the chance of him being a power role is the same as the chance that he is mafia). Also, there are no Newbie hammer excuses. Find me one game in which someone quickhammered like that, blamed it on inexperience, and was not scum. If you check the newbie games, scum always did it. SkylerOcon "newbie" scum did it twice, once in each game.

 

[Tom]

Per Swords and Riddle's own responses to his wagon,

vote: Riddle

choo choo mothaaa fuccckkkaaaaa

 

[Nicholas1024]

Yes.



Yes, that would be the definition of stagnating. If you are discounting bandwagons as solely "random jokes/votes" then you either don't understand the merit of the first quote in this post or you don't know how to play.



Then why don't you join it? In the first quote in this post, you seriously defined WHY we bandwagon. We do it to pressure people into responses.



A bandwagon is a legitimate reason, as you described above. You are contradictory not only to good play but to yourself.




You are only doing it right now because a) it evolved out of the random bandwagons and b) I called you out on your terrible, awful opinion on scumhunting and bandwagons.



No. Wrong. I find it RIDICULOUS how you can state in the very beginning of your post the purpose of a bandwagon and then state that my attempts to start a bandwagon are "random." Random aka without purpose? But you just previously EXPLAINED the purpose?



See all of my explanations above as to why you are the one who is inconsistent and at one point understands scumhunting and then later fails to understand it. My vote on you stays.



I LOVE bandwagons that hit L-2, L-1, because if someone hammered, the information that we would receive from that bandwagon would be FAR more important than the role that the dead person now has (considering he MOST likely has a vanilla role, and then the chance of him being a power role is the same as the chance that he is mafia). Also, there are no Newbie hammer excuses. Find me one game in which someone quickhammered like that, blamed it on inexperience, and was not scum. If you check the newbie games, scum always did it. SkylerOcon "newbie" scum did it twice, once in each game.

You missed the point. What exactly is it supposed to pressure people into doing? Marshy was bandwagoned up to L-2, and he didn't even blink. What meaningful response is there to a bandwagon without a reason? When you voted me, you gave a reason, and we now have a legitimate discussion going. However, give me an example of a meaningful response that one of the random votes has produced. For example, in Spidey-manfia, when KevinM voted MexicanBJ, on "a feeling he was scum", he expected MexicanBJ to give a "meaningful response". However, there really was no meaningful response to give, but despite that, KevinM got more suspicious. In the end, the whole fiasco ended up getting KevinM, not MexicanBJ lynched. (Technically he was modkilled, but he was about to be lynched anyway.) Although in this case, both ended up being town, the whole fiasco basically caused town a mis-lynch.

In my book, something has a "purpose", if it produced something that could be used for scumhunting. The majority of the posts that could be used for that, concern our discussion about the merits (or lack thereof) of random bandwagons. Though it is partially because of the random bandwagons (simply due to the nature of the discussion), the vote on me that kicked all this disscusion off was definitely not random.


So, show me how the pressure a random bandwagon brings evokes a response that could be meaningful in scumhunting, and then I'll believe you.

As far as taking bandwagons to L-2 or L-1, I see your point, but what if someone on that bandwagon ends up being a double voter? I could easily see such a role in an unusual game like this, and when a townie accidentally hammers (because they don't know that the wagon is actually at L-1 instead of L-2), then what? We start D2 with no more information than on D1, and 2 (3 if there is a serial killer) townies dead.


I don't deny that in the RVS, sooner or later someone will say something that will spark serious discussion, and that until that point there really isn't anything else to do, but do you really expect random votes to produce a meaningful response? In my experience, once said serious discussion begins, the RVS is basically forgotten.


By the way, I love how you say "my vote on you stays", and then go ahead and vote riddle in the very next post, less than a minute later!

 

[Tom]

You missed the point. What exactly is it supposed to pressure people into doing? Marshy was bandwagoned up to L-2, and he didn't even blink. What meaningful response is there to a bandwagon without a reason? When you voted me, you gave a reason, and we now have a legitimate discussion going. However, give me an example of a meaningful response that one of the random votes has produced. For example, in Spidey-manfia, when KevinM voted MexicanBJ, on "a feeling he was scum", he expected MexicanBJ to give a "meaningful response". However, there really was no meaningful response to give, but despite that, KevinM got more suspicious. In the end, the whole fiasco ended up getting KevinM, not MexicanBJ lynched. (Technically he was modkilled, but he was about to be lynched anyway.) Although in this case, both ended up being town, the whole fiasco basically caused town a mis-lynch.

In my book, something has a "purpose", if it produced something that could be used for scumhunting. The majority of the posts that could be used for that, concern our discussion about the merits (or lack thereof) of random bandwagons. Though it is partially because of the random bandwagons (simply due to the nature of the discussion), the vote on me that kicked all this disscusion off was definitely not random.


So, show me how the pressure a random bandwagon brings evokes a response that could be meaningful in scumhunting, and then I'll believe you.

As far as taking bandwagons to L-2 or L-1, I see your point, but what if someone on that bandwagon ends up being a double voter? I could easily see such a role in an unusual game like this, and when a townie accidentally hammers (because they don't know that the wagon is actually at L-1 instead of L-2), then what? We start D2 with no more information than on D1, and 2 (3 if there is a serial killer) townies dead.


I don't deny that in the RVS, sooner or later someone will say something that will spark serious discussion, and that until that point there really isn't anything else to do, but do you really expect random votes to produce a meaningful response? In my experience, once said serious discussion begins, the RVS is basically forgotten.


By the way, I love how you say "my vote on you stays", and then go ahead and vote riddle in the very next post, less than a minute later!

i didnt miss the point, you just dont know enough about how the game works.

you have not played much forum mafia if you still think that bandwagons dont elicit responses. to further the idiom, "your book" contains like two pages, one for spidermaf, and one for whatever other game you have played. i do not have to give you proof, you can simply ask anyone who has played more than you or you can go find it yourself. check Tomafia 3 if you want. marshy pushes bandwagon on stratford. doesnt like his response. pushes harder. stratford comes back with wtf weird posts. lynches him, he was scum.

"we start back on day 2 with all townies dead" is also a regularly dumb point that you need to rid yourself of.

discussion was legitimate. drawing distinctions like "everything that has been said before what i did isn't legitimate" is dumb. also wrong.

my vote on you held just as much weight as my vote on kevin, and just as much legitimacy. i voted him because i wanted him to answer my questions. obviously in your mind, this vote was not "legitimate," because it happened after my vote on you.

marshy did not respond because to ignore the bandwagon was marshy's response. not everyone will respond in the same way.

your doublevoter scenario is dumb. if he is a double voter, we will know when the vote count happens. you are reaching to try to legitimize an opinion that you have already admitted it dumb.

you were not the one to get us out of the rvs. it was happening naturally already. if you dont condede that point that you arent reading the thread.

my vote changed because i felt like changing it to pursue the riddle wagon but I like how you "love how it changed."

 

[Riddle]

A blanket attempt to avoid mistakes is the biggest mistake of all.

You've got to take some chances Nick or we won't find scum. I have no problem with the bandwagon on me. You shouldn't expect every bandwagon to produce scum, but they are certainly helpful in many situations. If I get hammered though make sure you lynch the person who did it...

 

[Tom]

You've got to take some chances Nick or we won't find scum. I have no problem with the bandwagon on me. You shouldn't expect every bandwagon to produce scum, but they are certainly helpful in many situations. If I get hammered though make sure you lynch the person who did it...

yet you are voting yourself?

 

[Riddle]

yet you are voting yourself?

I'm still in RJV stage lol. I'm not taking this bandwagon seriously but if someone takes it too far and hammer me then they should pay.

If it makes you happy - Unvote

 

[Tom]

it does make me happy. im sure you can find something that has been said in this game (or even something that HASNT been said) that you can latch onto and vote for.

seriously voting for yourself is a questionable cop out. there is no reason to do it as any alignment and you are denying us your opinion on record via vote.

 

[Nicholas1024]

i didnt miss the point, you just dont know enough about how the game works.

you have not played much forum mafia if you still think that bandwagons dont elicit responses. to further the idiom, "your book" contains like two pages, one for spidermaf, and one for whatever other game you have played. i do not have to give you proof, you can simply ask anyone who has played more than you or you can go find it yourself. check Tomafia 3 if you want. marshy pushes bandwagon on stratford. doesnt like his response. pushes harder. stratford comes back with wtf weird posts. lynches him, he was scum.

"we start back on day 2 with all townies dead" is also a regularly dumb point that you need to rid yourself of.

discussion was legitimate. drawing distinctions like "everything that has been said before what i did isn't legitimate" is dumb. also wrong.

my vote on you held just as much weight as my vote on kevin, and just as much legitimacy. i voted him because i wanted him to answer my questions. obviously in your mind, this vote was not "legitimate," because it happened after my vote on you.

marshy did not respond because to ignore the bandwagon was marshy's response. not everyone will respond in the same way.

your doublevoter scenario is dumb. if he is a double voter, we will know when the vote count happens. you are reaching to try to legitimize an opinion that you have already admitted it dumb.

you were not the one to get us out of the rvs. it was happening naturally already. if you dont condede that point that you arent reading the thread.

my vote changed because i felt like changing it to pursue the riddle wagon but I like how you "love how it changed."

Quit generalizing! I was NOT saying "everything that has been said before what i did isn't legitimate", nor that we should discount anything. What I did say is that most of the discussion before this point had been simply the joke vote phase, and so would not be of much use in scumhunting. Can you get any meaning out of... say, riddle's self vote (post #128, 3 days, about 50 posts ago), that constituted his first post of the game? Yes, there are posts in there that can be used for scumhunting, but the majority of the posts are just joke votes.

I also know that bandwagons are excellent for applying pressure an getting responses. I participated in a few in Spidey-manfia myself. However, in the RVS stage, what meaning can you get out of a bandwagon? Okay, so Marshy ignored the bandwagon, and that constitutes his response. So, just how are we supposed to use that? Riddle also isn't bothered by the bandwagon on him.

As far as to your Tommafia 3 example, yes, that is an excellent example of bandwagons applying pressure, (it caused the mafia member in question to make one of the most moronic posts I've ever seen) BUT they were out of the RVS stage by then. (As shown by the fact that they had put Omis at L-1, and he shifted the focus to Stratford to avoid getting lynched.) For a vote to mean anything pressure-wise, it must have a reason behind it. For example, in Spidey-manfia, you weren't bothered by the first 3 votes on you, but when Eor accused you of acting like BJ and voted you, you reacted strongly.

Yes, I know that "my book" is limited at the moment to Spidey-mafia and Bad Idea mafia, but rather than counter my idea (that something has a purpose if it makes discussion which can be used in scumhunting), you simply blast me because of inexperience? Really? That is not what I'd call townie play.

I never said that your vote on me wasn't legitimate. Why are you side-tracking the point?

As far as you claiming that I was not the one to get us out of the RVS, you do realize that the post before my "call me when some serious discussion starts" (which, along with your reaction to it, kicked off this entire discussion) was a random vote (by you) on Riddle? Have you come up with a reason for it yet? (As in, why the bandwagon is on Riddle instead of... say, Karthik_King?)

Did you ever read mini mario mafia? pezzaddict was a double-voter, but it wasn't revealed in the vote count, Chill was lynched when the vote count was at L-1. The only thing that revealed that pezzaddict might be the double-voter was the lynch flavor. Sure, odds are probably against a hidden double-voter in this game, but I reiterate, does it cost us anything to be cautious?

As far as your vote-changing goes, proof-reading is FTW. (Seriously, you managed to change your mind in under a minute.) You like how I pointed out your inconsistency? Okay...

@Riddle

Yes, I know bandwagons are very good at pressuring and revealing scum, but I fail to see how they can pressure anybody if there isn't a reason behind it. Without a reason for the votes, there is very little danger of someone (besides mafia, and only then if it's at L-1, and still it would be a questionable decision on the Mafia's part) hammering, and then thus no pressure, and no reason to do anything about it. I don't see why someone wouldn't ignore the bandwagon.

I don't particularly care if people choose to random vote bandwagon, it's not like there's anything else to do, but my point is that once serious discussion starts, people rarely refer back to the random vote phase.

 

[Ronike]

Another panel opens in the ceiling, and a strange, upside-down tower thing comes out of the ceiling a bit. You all look at it slightly confused, but when you see it start to crackle menacingly with electricity, you all are smart enough to get down on the ground. Except for Blazer.

You hear the sound of thunder, amplified many times by the relatively small room you are in, and when you look back at Blazer, nothing remains except for a black mark on the floor.

A second panel opens above Mentos' head and the same poke stick comes down and hits him on the head.

"Man... I really *hiccup* gotta stop hittin buttons... Ima leave you all alone for a while while I *hiccup* work off this drunk..."

The door where you all came in opens. Before any of you can react, a new person is thrown in and the door closes and locks, removing any hope you all have of escaping early.

Blazer has been replaced by Gheb_01

Mentos has been prodded.

Vote Count:
Tom(1): Nick
Riddle(3): Rockin, Swords, Tom
Kevin(2): Mentos, Frozen
Marshy(3): Kevin, Jungle, KK
Nick(1): Marshy

Not Voting: Gheb, Riddle

 

[Rockin]

I'm still wondering why Marshy has four votes and neither one is really unvoting him. Still find it odd since it's somewhat not confirmed that a executioner is in the game or not. Even after the votes went to 4, JF and KK seems incline to keep it on there. I'm also wondering why no one hasn't said anything about it. Odd. >>;;

Unvotes Riddle

Nice to see Gheb stepping in for blazer. ^^

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Alright, I got my role so I'm ready to sub Blazer.

Nice to see Gheb stepping in for blazer. ^^

Buisness as usual^^

 

[Tom]

Quit generalizing! I was NOT saying "everything that has been said before what i did isn't legitimate", nor that we should discount anything. What I did say is that most of the discussion before this point had been simply the joke vote phase, and so would not be of much use in scumhunting. Can you get any meaning out of... say, riddle's self vote (post #128, 3 days, about 50 posts ago), that constituted his first post of the game? Yes, there are posts in there that can be used for scumhunting, but the majority of the posts are just joke votes.

you didnt say "most of the discussion before this point has been jokes and would not be of much use in scumhunting." you said, and I quote, "Call me when some serious discussion starts." so i called you, because we were already seriously discussing things.

joke votes can be used for "scumhunting" because scumhunting is a process that jokevotes will lead into. you seem to bend the definition of scumhunting into an act that we were simply performing or not performing, instead of a process that can be done while posting, while not posting but reading, while joking around, etc.

I also know that bandwagons are excellent for applying pressure an getting responses. I participated in a few in Spidey-manfia myself. However, in the RVS stage, what meaning can you get out of a bandwagon? Okay, so Marshy ignored the bandwagon, and that constitutes his response. So, just how are we supposed to use that? Riddle also isn't bothered by the bandwagon on him.

you can get a lot of nice responses out of a bandwagon. this is why i simply stated that you would know this if you played more. i wasn't insulting your inexperience, i was simply stating that you would know this.

are you telling me that you dont think you can get anything out of an rvs bandwagon?

As far as to your Tommafia 3 example, yes, that is an excellent example of bandwagons applying pressure, (it caused the mafia member in question to make one of the most moronic posts I've ever seen) BUT they were out of the RVS stage by then. (As shown by the fact that they had put Omis at L-1, and he shifted the focus to Stratford to avoid getting lynched.) For a vote to mean anything pressure-wise, it must have a reason behind it. For example, in Spidey-manfia, you weren't bothered by the first 3 votes on you, but when Eor accused you of acting like BJ and voted you, you reacted strongly.

in the RVS stage, out of the RVS stage, there is no fence that divides the two. the RVS is a process that we use to develop more and more posts, that we can dissect, that we can analyze, so that we actually have things to "legitimately" (as you would say) discuss and debate. a vote doesnt have to have a reason behind it to have any pressure. if we put you at L-1 while joking, i bet you would feel pressure.

Yes, I know that "my book" is limited at the moment to Spidey-mafia and Bad Idea mafia, but rather than counter my idea (that something has a purpose if it makes discussion which can be used in scumhunting), you simply blast me because of inexperience? Really? That is not what I'd call townie play.

not blasting you because of inexperience. stating that you wouldn't have the opinions you are flaunting now if you had more experience. but you can villainize me if you want.

I never said that your vote on me wasn't legitimate. Why are you side-tracking the point?

not side-tracking anything.

As far as you claiming that I was not the one to get us out of the RVS, you do realize that the post before my "call me when some serious discussion starts" (which, along with your reaction to it, kicked off this entire discussion) was a random vote (by you) on Riddle? Have you come up with a reason for it yet? (As in, why the bandwagon is on Riddle instead of... say, Karthik_King?)

i had a reason that i chose riddle. it was not random.

do you seriously still hold that you are the one that "got" us out of the RVS?

Did you ever read mini mario mafia? pezzaddict was a double-voter, but it wasn't revealed in the vote count, Chill was lynched when the vote count was at L-1. The only thing that revealed that pezzaddict might be the double-voter was the lynch flavor. Sure, odds are probably against a hidden double-voter in this game, but I reiterate, does it cost us anything to be cautious?

pezzaddict's fault. we are not being cautious by tip-toeing around any and every hypothetical situation that we think might apply. just dont be an idiot and you will be fine.

As far as your vote-changing goes, proof-reading is FTW. (Seriously, you managed to change your mind in under a minute.) You like how I pointed out your inconsistency? Okay...

???

 

[Tom]

I'm still wondering why Marshy has four votes and neither one is really unvoting him. Still find it odd since it's somewhat not confirmed that a executioner is in the game or not. Even after the votes went to 4, JF and KK seems incline to keep it on there. I'm also wondering why no one hasn't said anything about it. Odd. >>;;

Unvotes Riddle

Nice to see Gheb stepping in for blazer. ^^

if marshy were executed we would simply lynch the executor

this is what im talking about when i say tip-toe around every hypothetical.

we are not going to adjust our play so that L/2 means L just because there might be an executor.

 

[Rockin]

if marshy were executed we would simply lynch the executor

this is what im talking about when i say tip-toe around every hypothetical.

we are not going to adjust our play so that L/2 means L just because there might be an executor.

Wasn't you intimidated when people went a bit too far with the joke votes on you in Spidey Mafia? >_>;;

In anycase, I always feel that every townie should be counted, whether we go to lynch the executioner or not.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm still wondering why Marshy has four votes and neither one is really unvoting him.

It's cuz people who voted him aren't really active (Jungle, KK). Also there are currently only 3 votes on him, not 4.

Tom, why do you pressure Nick but took your vote off him? Seing as your debate against him seems to give some substantial space for legit speculations I'd by down for a BW tbh for additional pressure. Before that I'd like to hear some opinions from other people though. Rockin, Riddle, what do you guys think? We need to get more people involved into this to have more options/limit coasting for scum players.

 

[Tom]

because i want to lynch riddle not nicholas, thats why

 

[Nicholas1024]

you didnt say "most of the discussion before this point has been jokes and would not be of much use in scumhunting." you said, and I quote, "Call me when some serious discussion starts." so i called you, because we were already seriously discussing things.

joke votes can be used for "scumhunting" because scumhunting is a process that jokevotes will lead into. you seem to bend the definition of scumhunting into an act that we were simply performing or not performing, instead of a process that can be done while posting, while not posting but reading, while joking around, etc.



you can get a lot of nice responses out of a bandwagon. this is why i simply stated that you would know this if you played more. i wasn't insulting your inexperience, i was simply stating that you would know this.

are you telling me that you dont think you can get anything out of an rvs bandwagon?



in the RVS stage, out of the RVS stage, there is no fence that divides the two. the RVS is a process that we use to develop more and more posts, that we can dissect, that we can analyze, so that we actually have things to "legitimately" (as you would say) discuss and debate. a vote doesnt have to have a reason behind it to have any pressure. if we put you at L-1 while joking, i bet you would feel pressure.



not blasting you because of inexperience. stating that you wouldn't have the opinions you are flaunting now if you had more experience. but you can villainize me if you want.



not side-tracking anything.



i had a reason that i chose riddle. it was not random.

do you seriously still hold that you are the one that "got" us out of the RVS?



pezzaddict's fault. we are not being cautious by tip-toeing around any and every hypothetical situation that we think might apply. just dont be an idiot and you will be fine.



???

Well, I felt that the serious discussion had stagnated somewhat. It would have been more accurate if I had posted something along the lines of "Call me when some serious discussion resumes." My mistake, I can see why you drew that conclusion.

Agreed that you can get some good results out of a bandwagon, but, out of the few games that I have played in/read through, I haven't yet seen how an RVS bandwagon has really gotten a scumtell. Could you show an example?

I would feel some pressure if a joke vote bandwagon put me at L-1, but it wouldn't be anything near the pressure if a non-RVS bandwagon put me there. I still hold to the opinion that the pressure a vote brings is amplified when a reason is given, because the person has to either defend themselves, or get lynched. If no reason is given, then the pressure to defend yourself isn't there, as there's really nothing to defend against.

Do you feel like sharing the reason you chose riddle?

Also, I don't feel that I personally got us out of the RVS, its just that the back-and-forth between you and me seemed to revive the discussion. The RVS hasn't exactly been clear-cut this game, we've had times where it was quite serious, and times when it has gone back to just random voting.

Anyway, I feel that we're at least semi-agreed on the topic at the moment, so I'm going to

Unvote Tom


Anyway, what does everyone else think about the back-and-forth between me and Tom? I'd like some opinions.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Anyway, what does everyone else think about the back-and-forth between me and Tom? I'd like some opinions.

Yeah, I alread mentioned that more people should join the debate. Once I cought up 100% with the whole argument I'll post my opinion as well. I'm off now though.

 

[Tom]

@nicholas:

we dont do it on swf much at all. the rvs wagons have only begun here, most recently i think due to the AIM mafia weve started to play. however, you can go on mafiascum.net and find examples out the frame.

i chose riddle over everyone else for a few reasons, one being that he voted himself after i voted myself then unvoted myself, which seemed like mimicry. only he didnt unvote himself until i asked him why he would vote himself.

you had voted me because you disagreed with me? so then you unvoted. thats cool, but then who are you going to vote for now? nothing else anyone has said catches your eye?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Yeah, pretty much. I really didn't see the logic behind your position.

I haven't seen too much just yet, although Karthik_king seemed to be following KevinM in terms of voting patterns...

First kevinM votes sword, Karthik_king votes sword,
kevinM unvotes, Karthik_king unvotes
KevinM starts a Marshy bandwagon, a little while later Karthik_king jumps on it.

I'm not sure if it warrants a vote, but I found it interesting. What do you think?

 

[Rockin]

Anyway, what does everyone else think about the back-and-forth between me and Tom? I'd like some opinions.

I don't like how you immiediatly brought this to attention towards us. The talk between you and Tom were quite noticable. Of course we were gonna talk about it eventually once things seem to calm down. Almost as if it was an act. This is probably me being sensitive to some things, but I just don't like it >>

 

[Tom]

I don't like how you immiediatly brought this to attention towards us. The talk between you and Tom were quite noticable. Of course we were gonna talk about it eventually once things seem to calm down. Almost as if it was an act. This is probably me being sensitive to some things, but I just don't like it >>

i dont like how you seem to be almost afraid to have an opinion

 

[Nicholas1024]

Well, I expected people to state their opinions during the debate. When they didn't do so, I asked for them. Being that I have less experience than most, I wanted to know whether people thought I had a point, or if I was mistaken.

 

[mentosman8]

Yeah, pretty much. I really didn't see the logic behind your position.

I haven't seen too much just yet, although Karthik_king seemed to be following KevinM in terms of voting patterns...

First kevinM votes sword, Karthik_king votes sword,
kevinM unvotes, Karthik_king unvotes
KevinM starts a Marshy bandwagon, a little while later Karthik_king jumps on it.

I'm not sure if it warrants a vote, but I found it interesting. What do you think?

Lol welcome to playing with KK

Anyway, Tom has pretty much said everything I've had to say so far... I'm not sure who I really want to look into just yet, but for now, Unvote: Kevin Vote: Karthik because so dar we have done very little and need to go scumhunt (sorry for the ripping KK, it's all good natured I assure you)

 

[Rockin]

i dont like how you seem to be almost afraid to have an opinion

I........just don't like you LOL

Well, I expected people to state their opinions during the debate. When they didn't do so, I asked for them. Being that I have less experience than most, I wanted to know whether people thought I had a point, or if I was mistaken.

Well not sure about anyone else, but upon debates like that, I feel the need to keep quiet and see how things play out, because it was a discussion that focuses on one another. There was no need to jump in and give an opinion at the time. I don't want to accidently interrupt what the other had planned for in anyway.

Trust me, if there's something of note, I'm sure people will say something about it and ask you, him, or both of ya a question in terms of the discussion.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Anyway, what does everyone else think about the back-and-forth between me and Tom? I'd like some opinions.

I agree with Tom on this one. Hammering is usually a good scum detector. As for pressuring people, i think we've only pressured a few, with not very many responses. I'm going to:

unvote Riddle; Vote: Karthik[b/]

Karthik bandwagon!

 

[SwordsRbroken]

unvote Riddle; Vote: Karthik[b/]

My bad.

unvote Riddle; Vote: Karthik

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, I've read through the Tom vs Nick argument and I haven't seen anybody posting anything scummy tbh. It look more like a disagreement about an issue that's indeed debatable (Bandwagons) and if anything Nick was looking a bit inexperienced but I don't think he intended to actually stagnate the game. He just doesn't seem to like BWs based on RVS posts which is comprehensible to some extent - I know he isn't the only one who prefers a more solid basis for a debate than joke votes. On the other hand Toms points weren't wrong either. It's just a difference in point of view but nothing suspicious.

Most suspicious thing about Nick was his actually his OMGUS vote against Tom which makes me inclined to keep a sharp eye on him (that vote was a bit too defensive considering the fact that there weren't even a lot of votes on him) but again it could be inexperience on his inexperience. Depending on his reactions in the future he might become more suspicous in retrospect but we'll see soon enough if he remains consistent with his posts and actions.
Tom taking off his vote is also understandable since Nicks point wasn't really weak and nobody seemed to be in favour of a Nick BW at that point.

Still want to hear other people's opinion on this subject I might have missed something.

I don't like how you immiediatly brought this to attention towards us. The talk between you and Tom were quite noticable. Of course we were gonna talk about it eventually once things seem to calm down. Almost as if it was an act. This is probably me being sensitive to some things, but I just don't like it >>

Nick was asking for other people's opions on their debate and this is the best you can come up with? No comments on their disagreements or the OMGUS votes/Tom's unvoting? I don't like how you tend to wait for other people's opinions first (also happened in Simpsons mafia...).

i dont like how you seem to be almost afraid to have an opinion

QFT

Lol welcome to playing with KK

Anyway, Tom has pretty much said everything I've had to say so far... I'm not sure who I really want to look into just yet, but for now, Unvote: Kevin Vote: Karthik because so dar we have done very little and need to go scumhunt (sorry for the ripping KK, it's all good natured I assure you)

Votes being spread all across the map isn't helpful at this point. If you want info for early D1 you need to add to an ongoing discussion or jump a BW.

Or is this only a joke vote and I'm just assuming too much?

Well not sure about anyone else, but upon debates like that, I feel the need to keep quiet and see how things play out, because it was a discussion that focuses on one another. There was no need to jump in and give an opinion at the time. I don't want to accidently interrupt what the other had planned for in anyway.

Trust me, if there's something of note, I'm sure people will say something about it and ask you, him, or both of ya a question in terms of the discussion.

Again you keep yourself out of the discussion for the most part. Not scummy but not terribly helpful either. I'd rather have you adress some of the points that are brought up instead of just dodgin them like that. Dunno what to rhink of your policy.