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Roman's doc - New Vids up as of 2-19-09

Roman.

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
2,492
Location
Wilbraham, MA (Springfield)

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
Strangest Doc I've ever seen. JC your grabs. Will edit and say more later, gotta go play some Melee.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
First match!

You should be spamming pills when he's not doing anything, he wasn't really using projectiles at all. You should also avoid spending too much time on top of any platform, because they can hit you while you have no chance to hit them back.

Jump cancel your grabs and don't use the uair to approach, especially not that high. Use the nair or fair instead, or even the bair or dair if you can. The uair - especially when you're using it at the peak of your jump - will lead to you getting shieldgrabbed or punished by an out of shield Spin Attack.

I would recommend not using the dash attack unless you're trying to continue a combo and can't get there in time with anything else because it's very laggy.

Don't charge smashes unless you're comboing into them, especially not usmashes against a Link standing on a platform above you. It's a good way to eat a pogo.

You're missing some of your L-cancels, looks like. Might want to fix that.

At 0:38, I would recommend dropping with a bair instead, because he still had his Spin Attack intact and might catch you in it.

I would jump as you pill, just so you can use that momentum to keep mobile. The Megavitamin has a fair bit of startup and ending lag, so it's best to keep moving if possible.

At 1:37 you should really ledgehop a fair or uair to see if you can clip him after the missed tech.

oO;; Weird ending...

Anyway, you can wavedash, obviously, but you don't seem to be putting it to very good use. Your approaches are very straightforward with no dashdancing or pulsewalking and your defenses are also very straightforward - it's mostly just shielding. I'd be careful, because if your opponent catches on, you're screwed.

Second match!

I don't really know why you're not using pills at all, especially on a large stage like Dreamland. Your opponent isn't using his projectiles at all and Link's nair will basically shut down anything you try to do, if he played a more control style. Use your pills to approach and you'll get punished a lot less. Currently your approaches only work because your opponent is doing something else.

I think you're using your doublejump too liberally. Judging by the video, it doesn't seem like you can use the Doc Tornado to recover, which is something else you should work on, and so you're going to rely heavily on your doublejump to boost your recovery. However, you're using it a lot to break out of aerial tumbles, which can be bad for you if your opponent manages to knock you out of it, because then you'll be recovering with only your Super Jump Punch. Airteching is a little weird at first, but you really should learn to use it, or at least tech or use a fast aerial to break tumbles instead.

Your approaches are a little better in this match, though.

If you'll watch your opponent carefully, it looks like he's already figured out your style. He's spotdodging after aerials to consistently avoid your shieldgrabs and utilting when behind your shield to catch you as you jump out. A lot of his other attacks are also aimed at places he knows you'll be and he's also shieldstabbing you a lot more than he should be. So mix it up more.

Aaand... that's it.
 

Spife

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,016
Location
Neriak
lulz, EA3K You give me to much credit in that last paragraph >.>
Thanks for the few pointers i could pull out of that post (more projectiles mainly).
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
I just call it like I see it. It really looked like you had some good mindgames going there. I can critique the Link too, if you want.
 

Spife

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,016
Location
Neriak
Do anything your humble fingers want. Nobody is hear to bully you around and take control.
Except Steven, still don't know what that doods problem is.
But on a serious note, go for it.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Match one!

I would exploit projectiles a little more, especially since Doc isn't the fastest and usually can't react and punish your lag. You should definitely be pulling Bombs every time you have an opening, and I'd even go as far as to replace a lot of your backward wavedashes with shorthop Boomerangs. You can jump forward to get the sweetspot hit and start a combo, or backward to force an approach that you can counter with the nair or a jab or the like.

You seem a little tentative on the counterattacks. If he hits your shield or whiffs a big attack, go for the pogo. It's fairly fast in terms of startup and it's not that hard to hit with. It also does a lot of damage and has enough knockback to be difficult if not impossible to punish when landed, and can set up for a juggle of some kind.

If you noticed your opponent wavedashing around a lot, throw out a grab. Link's grab is slower than most peoples', but it's still a few frames faster than wavedashing.

Your shffls are a little high. Lower the height at which you start your fairs and you won't get grabbed as easily. Lower the height at which you start your nairs and you won't get punished for the low knockback, and you'll have more time to use a follow-up.

Also, know your recovery. If he misses you on the ledge, try dropping with a nair or even a pogo if you're feeling daring. No pun intended. Fountain of Dreams has a wall going down the whole way, so you should be okay on the recovery.

If you notice him trying to bair gimp you, try airdodging back, smacking him with the Hookshot, tapping A immediately then fastfalling and clipping him on your way up with the Spin Attack. From there, you can get back onto the stage and edgeguard, edgehog, or go back down to gimp him.

If you catch him in a utilt, awesome. You can hit him with a few of them, but watch him carefully. If you think he's about to break out of the juggle with a tech, DI or attack, finish it off with a pogo instead.

The Spin Attack is awesome as a punishing move or something to start an edgeguard, but it's not a very good edgeguard, especially with someone with a recovery as easy to sweetspot as Doc's. Go for a nair airguard or an ftilt instead.

At closer ranges when there's a pause in the action, jab. It's relatively fast and outranges anything Doc has, and the third slash is a gentleman like stab, which clears him away and makes it difficult for him to punish.

If you're going to jump back onto the stage, do so with an attack like the nair, otherwise it's cake for him to hit you out of your recovery. Don't forget about your hookshot, it rarely hurts your recovery. Use it to stall out an edgehog and clip him with the Spin Attack on the way up if he's not refreshing ledge invincibility.

Wavedashing with Link is cool and all, but don't forget that you should be moving for a reason. Don't wavedance when you can dashdance, and make sure you're in the right position to hit your opponent. Also, don't wavedash away when you can smack him with a Spin Attack.

When Doc is bthrowing you, DI up. Pretty self-explanatory. You should never be caught with bad DI from Doc's bthrow. Ever.

If you'll notice, a lot of your deaths are from gimps. Position yourself so it's harder for him to knock you off. Try to put yourself in the center of the stage and force his back to the edge.

Space out your fairs a little more. You're hitting too close to the base of your sword and Doc is able to trade hits with you.

Wallteching would be cool.

If Doc is spamming pills at you, try doing what Aniki does. Back off and shoot an arrow at him.
 

Spife

Smash Master
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DIing the bthrow: Obvious? Stupid I didn't know? Maybe, but it saved me a few stocks and :D

Thanks for the rest of the info too. A lot to keep in mind x-x

I only disagree with the usage of the spin attack (for punishing), if I get a chance to punish I'd rather nair to grab to uptilts or just grab to uptilts unlessss I could get a stock off (obviously).
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Remember that you have more options out of your shield than the grab... you can even jump and DI backwards with a fair if you need the kill.

You're using your pills more, which is good. The pills to wavelands are pretty.

JC your grabs... I think you're missing a few L-cancels.

I dunno how good of an idea using the utilt from nothing is... you should really try to combo into it.

You might want to cut down on using the Super Sheet so much...

Are you perfect wavedashing? They look kinda short to me...
 

Stroupes

Smash Lord
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Jun 2, 2008
Messages
1,810
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Tennessee
Very nice Doc.
I might suggest using more pills though.
It's a good interruptor, especially when the opponent has all their moves planned out.
 

Roman.

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
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Wilbraham, MA (Springfield)
I quit doc and melee all together, sry guys but brawl is just too much ****ing fun. Plus I'm going to be really good and beat pros and yeah sorry, good knowing you guys though. Maybe I'll be back when I don't have to focus so much on brawl.

edit: account got hacked? better change my pw
 

Stroupes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
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Tennessee
You don't have to quit Melee :p
I've been through the whole Melee vs. Brawl debate.
You can still play Melee competitively, and enjoy Brawl.
:D
 

Roman.

Smash Champion
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Mar 25, 2007
Messages
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Wilbraham, MA (Springfield)
umm i hate brawl lol... my account's gotten hacked twice now and both times they posted random stuff... i got kicked off and then saw that i posted here when i know i didn't so uhh yeah

we're good now though, new password ftw
 

Stryk9

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
286
Location
Victoria, BC and Yukon
yea, basically use your grab mroe effectively, cuz it *****, and mroe specificaly it ***** link, and mroe specificly it ***** on fd, you can chain grab the **** out of link and link uair etc to fair quite easily. But your other stuff is good, pill spam more.

also, very nice bair usage at the end of the first game, it will decimate links recovery (and everybody's ;))
 

zippo074

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
60
Location
Ab, Canada
Roman you did really good overall, but like elvenarrow said, you should be spamming pills when he's not doing anything or is confused. Nice use of cape and dthrow chains. Good job anyway =P I have a combo for you=D Dthrow>up smash> super jump punch>jump thn uair and voila!
 

Roman.

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
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Wilbraham, MA (Springfield)
lol that's pretty creative actually, i was ****ing around with it on yoshi's story and utilt fits better than uair personally (depends on % though) still very cool lol i'll throw it in next time i fight someone
 

Spife

Smash Master
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Sep 15, 2007
Messages
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Neriak
lol that's pretty creative actually, i was ****ing around with it on yoshi's story and utilt fits better than uair personally (depends on % though) still very cool lol i'll throw it in next time i fight someone
you stay away from me with that KEHMBOW!
 

Spife

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
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Neriak
No no I just have this under my subscribed threads...or maybe I DO Stalk the doc boards.

THe Link boards are slow but we got rid of TrollLight (give or take) and now all threads don't stop after the second post :D
 

Bizzarro Flame

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
1,816
Location
San Francisco
I've only watched the first video.

I enjoy every kind of style the people have to offer, including yours. I enjoyed your use of d-airs, but maybe you approach with it too many times. Try not to use your u-tilt for a combo starter because of the limited arc range that it provides. I also enjoyed watching your edge-guarding skills, which were good usage of the b-airs. Unfortunately, as I can see, there are only matches of you with a Link opponent, so I cannot judge much any further.

Keep up the good work. Melee 4 Life.
 

SpruceTengu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
269
Location
Eastern MA
Hey Roman--

This is coming from the vids you posted and from what I saw at XII STICLE in the fall. You have a really good handle of the SHBAWD and the back air in general; you use it really well for edgeguarding, but from what I see sometimes you use it past practicality, as though you like it so much you abandon more applicable and reasonable edgeguards (notably the cape) because you'd rather have the pwnage of the B-air. I mean, not a problem, I suppose, but if you're actively looking for critique, there's a big one. I've seen the b-air habit get you into trouble here and there. Its an amazing, ballsy, stylish and effective edgeguard, but only situationally.

Also, pill game might use some use. Being projectile-low may very well just be your style, and that's fine, but again, critique is offered constructively and only if you're really looking for it. In larger stages, nice pill game with some wavelands and DJ pills can really do you some good fouling people's spacing and making approaches easier.

Speaking of approaches, you do alot of approaches with just aerials and just Nair in particular. Again, this is an awesome approach, but once people get used to it you'll start to get punished. I tend to use the Nair alot against certain characters, but once smarter players catch on they'll just dashdance, bide their time, and nail you for doing it. Try varying your approaches; either make them somehow more aggressive--try pillrushing? or more defensive--wait them out, screw with your spacing, etc. This should really help prevent people from reading you.

...Word. Thats about all i have to say for now. Good luck man, thats an amazing doc. Hope to see you around =D
 

SpruceTengu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
269
Location
Eastern MA
Durr. Probably not, considering I haven't heard about it till now. I'm actually back in Boston now for winter break. Nothing big ever goes down there smash-wise, though, does it?
 

LumpyCPU...

Smash Hero
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afk
Slippi.gg
half#198
your doc's not too bad. watch the way HomemadeWaffles spaces.
and MOAR BAIRS lolol
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
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Jul 3, 2002
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Warner Robins, Georgia
Nair approaching isnt bad if you use it for the right reason, which alot of people dont.

You cant approach with nair with the intent of hitting somebody on the ground, because more-often-than-not, you'll get CC'd for it.

If you want to nair approach, you should be lookin to catch somebody in the air. If not, you should be lookin to pass through somebody (so you dont get shieldgrabbed). Last thing you probably look for is to hit the bottom of the shield so that you're in ther face for a grab or something (you could also u.air at this point).

___

No i dont remember the vids, im just throwing this out there.
 
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