ROB Q&A!! Read this before asking questions...ALL OF IT!

[noodles]

nairing a ROB thats above you hasnt helped me much in past dittoes. well that least not when the other is coming down with a nair

 

[Overswarm]

If Nintendevil isn't already on your ignore list, just make sure not to take advice from him. This will improve your game tenfold.

 

[toasty]

*waits for Nacker to link the vids all of his dittos as a ditto guide*

 

[omegawhitemage]

Alright so, is it just me or is Peach actually a tough match-up for robert? I'm not sure why I have a hard time with it, but I'd like some other peoples opinions on the matter as well as any suggestions for beating her you may have.

 

[JCaesar]

I've been thinking the same thing since recently I started playing some good ones. All her aerials outprioritize yours, it's annoying as hell. And she kills a lot lower than ROB.

 

[Overswarm]

Peach IS a really hard matchup. The only thing you really have going for you in this matchup is that you can gimp her by using your bair. Use that up+b liberally! Reverse up+b off the stage, bair them out of their up+b, repeat. If Peach is gonna try to up+b late, just laser her out of her float and then grab the edge, punish when she hits the stage. Muchos lag from the up+b now.


Peach is rarely played, but I'd put her in the top 5 worst matchups, theoretically at least.

 

[JCaesar]

There are 3 or 4 very good Peaches in MD/VA

 

[omegawhitemage]

One of my crewmate's mains is Peach and he's getting good. I also played Cort's Peach and lost, though it was close.

 

[Mr.E]

There seems to be a bit of conflicting data surronding stale moves, so I was wondering if you knew anything definitive about them. Does hitting the stage count as a hit (pillars, balloon, shy guys)? Does fairing pit's arrows or any other projectile count as a hit? Does hitting a waddle-doo or turnip count as a hit? Does hitting a shield (whether it be a normal shield or say pit's down b) count as a hit? Is it always 9 seperate hits to fully regenerate a stale move (assuming you don't use the stale move in those 9 hits)?

After throwing a gyro, if someone runs into it, does that count as a hit? if someone reflects laser/gyro, does it count as a hit?

If you could provide any sort of insight on diminishing returns, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I know hitting stage elements counts as a hit. Hitting a regular shield doesn't count as a hit, not sure about special move shields. :[

Stage elements = yes
Projectiles = no i think
9 hits = yes unless you respawn then all moves are fresh

BIG IMPORTANT IMFORMATION AND JUNK!

After seeing MaECKSECKSECKSpower's AZ OneTwoStep video relinked in his own thread, the ROB vs. Dedede one with Forward, it got me to thinking about this.

I'm in the process of testing moves right now... I'll be done by the time I finish this post and actually post it. It turns out that most projectiles DO refresh stale moves! Yes, hitting D3's Waddle Dees WILL put your attack in the stale moves list! So I set out to test what other strikeable projectiles and objects count for this...

Hitting these things add an attack to the Stale Moves List (SML):

Snake's Grenades and Nikita. Attacking a grenade usually results in you blowing up, though, so don't do that. Both the impact, the little "ding" for being hit by a tossed/thrown grenade, and the explosion count as separate attacks! If an opponent grabs/catches a grenade and throws it back at Snake, the impact/explosion are put on their SML, not Snake's.

Ice Block (Ice Climbers) -- Each Block seems to count separately, so deflecting both Blocks will add an attack to the SML two times! Strangely, hitting both Ice Climbers at the same time (when they're together) only counts as one attack in the SML. Attacking the AI partner alone (Nana usually) counts as one attack in the SML.

Pikmin (Olimar) -- Anytime, anywhere. They act like the AI Ice Climber in this regard, any attack that hits them is put in the SML. This works against Olimar's >B, including attacks that "hit" latched on Pikmin. This also includes stray Pikmin caught away from Olimar and anything that outprioritizes his Smashes.

Link and Toon Link's Bombs
Wario's intact Bike
ROB's Gyro!!! This occurs only with attacks that push back a GROUNDED Gyro. Attacks that "clank" with a grounded Gyro do NOT add to the SML. Attacks that cancel out a mid-air Gyro (thrown or original shot) do NOT add to the SML.

Luigi Mansion's pillars
Mario Circuit's cars
Rumble Falls' platform switches (wtf)
Shy Guys on Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Castle Siege's statues
Mushroomy Kingdom's blocks -- Breaking them with your head doesn't count.
Distant Planet's pill flowers and that little spaceship thing
Smashville's balloons
Summit's falling stalactite and breakable slant
Skyworld's floors
WarioWare's chiseling and "pop the party favors" microgames
POW Block and denizens of Mario Bros.
The entire stage of Hanenbow... Best argument against tourney legality yet?
Shadow Moses Island's walls
Green Hill Zone's checkpoint
Spinning Blocks on Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Great Fox's frontal blasters (Campneria)
Green Green's blocks
Brinstar's gooey stage connectors

Dubya's UAir puffing is also really, really homosexual if you didn't already know.


It does NOT include:

Delicious cooked items (G&W) -- Kirby's Copy version are considered "energy," absorbable by Ness/Lucas and G&W. This differs from G&W's solid sausages and fish. Despite that fact, attacking Kirby's fried foods don't add to the SML any more than Gaymanwatch's do.

Armor Pieces (Zamus) -- Presumbly, this means clanking against most any thrown item with an attack does not add to the SML but I can't confirm that.

Turnips (Peach) -- Supports my theory above. They add when a thrown Turnip connects, as expected, but not when "clanked" against mid-air.

Thundershock (Pikachu)
Razor Leaf (Ivysaur)
Aura Sphere (Lucario)
Palutena's Arrow (Pit)
Charge Shot (Samus)
Samus' Missiles, surprisingly
Both Boomerangs (Link and TL)
Both Arrows (Link and TL)
Paralyzer (Zamus)
Peanuts (Diddy)
Fireballs (Mario and Luigi)

Onett's cars
All 75m hazards
WarioWare's "avoid the hazard" microgames
Ultimate Chimera (invulnerable)

Pound Stars (Dedede and Yoshi), Sheik's Needles, the Spacies' Blasters, Yosho's Egg Toss, PK Fire (both), Final Cutter's projectile, and Din's Fire do not have hurtboxes. They cannot be struck and do not put attacks in the SML. I didn't attempt to attack the mounted bulbkin or the exploding barrel on Bridge of Eldin, nor the Klaptrap on Jungle Japes. I tried to attack Port Town's cars, but they're difficult to hit and kill way too easily that I couldn't get an accurate tell on them.

I should probably post this in General or Tactical too, this is pretty useful information for everybody. Maybe later. *shrug*

Oh, and a Gyro only adds to the SML one time through being shot out to spinning on the ground. (i.e. If the shot Gyro hits, it will add to the SML once and the spin won't add at all. If the shot lands on the ground without hitting anything, the spin will add up to one attack to the SML.) Unsure if "shot" Gyro and "spin" Gyro damage are considered two different attacks or not. Picking up and throwing the Gyro count as new attacks on the SML.

Attacks hitting special shields, including Link and YL's Hylian Shields, do not add to the list. Reflected projectiles that hit someone count as an attack in the reflector's list. Not sure if a ROB laser that hits targets both before and after reflector are counted in ROB's list, the reflector's list, or both. And the SLM did appear to be nine attacks long while I was doing all this.

 

[noodles]

nice informative post lol.

what do you guys do with upb spamming mks?

 

[toasty]

spamming it on the stage or do they use it frequently as an edgeguard?

 

[noodles]

on the stage. they upb, hit out of the glide, and upb again with little to no lag

 

[toasty]

don't approach. he's being gay, return the favor. laser until he stops.

 

[noodles]

LOL allrite

 

[Bug~]

hey guys, can u guys tell me wat i need to do to play better.

this is a tournament match but i know im gunna have to do way better to beat DSF or Cort with ROB. So any help would be great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuWqq0nYJi4

 

[Sudai]

Laser till he stops or if he miss-spaces the glide attack, shield grab his dumb ***. They're bound to miss the spacing at least once if they're spamming it.

 

[toasty]

@Bug~
you should post this in the video section. For the sake of formality, chances are that no one of repute will look at the video and give you advice again, just a formality thing.

 

[Overswarm]

nice informative post lol.

what do you guys do with upb spamming mks?

Roll behind him. What now, MK?

 

[noodles]

^^
downsmash lol
thx sudai

 

[Overswarm]

^^
downsmash lol
thx sudai

He can't reach you with the d-smash.

It's also pretty easy to powershield the glide attack and punish that way.

 

[toasty]

So I think a couple months ago a short lived trend started:
list your ROB flaws and things you should work on.

Maybe just list them as they come to you if you can't think of all of them.

I'll list a couple...

1) I've grown too attached to my gyro; more often than not, I will run after it to grab it. I tend to become boring(Read: predictable) with my applications of glide tossing, gyro-dropping, charged-gyro usage, gyro canceling.

2) I sidestep wayyyy too much. It was old habit I developed in Melee due to my low-tier loves having horrible shields and horrible options against shield pressure. In Brawl, it's much more prevalent [since it's easier to use it effectively and more useful, it's also easier to read and to punish].

3) related to #2 but it merits its own #. I almost never use/exploit the beauty of shield dropping. I started to recently, but I'm way late and I don't do it enough. Shield-drop-->Dsmash is incredibly useful and increases the number of potential options...such as situations when sidestep ->Dsmash gets shielded.


Also: I wanted to add that bit about rolling behind MK but I tried my best to give an OS-type response and I was limited to about 15 words haha

 

[JJR.O.B.]

1. I need to get better at shield grabbing. I always try to grab too quickly and end up getting hit

2. I need to be less predictable when I am recovering.

3. I need to work on using my tilts more

 

[Sky`]

So, I typed an Anti Rob Guide for Peaches...
If you wanna Rip it apart. >_> And tell me if anything is wrong, that'd be cool. =D

 

[JCaesar]

link ?

 

[Sky`]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193&page=20

My post near the top, it's looong like Loooong cat.

 

[Overswarm]

So I've basically figured out, philosophically, how I'm going to reinvent ROB.

I think I may want some discussion about it, but I'd like to keep it seek rat until after I fully understand what I want to do and am able to fully implement it....

I think I may see if we can have a ROB "back room" thread here... but probably not. If we can, I'll be sending an invite to JCaesar, Nacker, Toasty, and all the other super cool ROBs so they can be part of my clubhouse.

 

[thaxceptional1]

how can u reinvent rob when hes already been invented?

 

[Overswarm]

I made him. I can unmake him, then make him again.

Really, I'm using the term loosely. The majority of ROB players out there right now are all using playstyles derived from the few early matches I had online (namely the Wifi Wars tournament) and from early tournament experiences they had personally. ROB has become more static, and much, much less dynamic; this has had a stifilng effect on ROB's development and this has turned ROB's progress away from improving ROB himself and instead focuses on how he plays in specific matchups. I do not believe that ROB has been fully explored yet, so am rebuilding him from the ground up using the knowledge I have already accumulated.

Results have been... good.

 

[TeeVee]

I hope you can do something OS because it seems like Rob's metagame has been dieng out for the most part. Almost all Robs are playing identical and it shouldn't be like that.

I've been looking at characters like Diddy and ZSS who seem like they never stop growing, we need to get something going for Rob very soon.

 

[Overswarm]

Diddy and ZSS never stop growing because they suck and have to. ROB stopped growing because he's been doing well.... the only problem is, a few other characters (namely Metaknight) have stopped growing yet do better than ROB overall simply because their base traits are better. This shouldn't hold us back.

Let's just say I've been reading a lot of Bruce Lee lately.

 

[JCaesar]

Bruce Lee writes?

If they won't let you have a ROB Back Room here, we could use a free private forum somewhere else.

I'm really looking forward to this reinvention of ROB. I definitely feel like he can be on the predictable side sometimes, especially with his approaches and telegraphed aerials.


Edit: Here's an example of an aspect of ROB's game that I think should be looked at more in depth. When most ROBs, including myself, pick up our gyro, we tend to immediately glidetoss or throw it. I think it might be worth experimenting with holding on to the gyro for periods of time and waiting for an opening for a good glidetoss->f/usmash combo. ROB has lots of options left when holding an item, from laser spam to up-Bed aerials to mid-air drops, recatching it with an aerial or jab. If you can damage their shield enough so you know a glidetossed gyro will hit them out, then you can get off guaranteed combos. I think the best way to practice this and discover new strats is to play ROB dittos, because you already have a large incentive to hold on to an enemy gyro. It'll force you to fight with one in your hand until you find an appropriate place to fit in a glidetoss, instead of just spamming glidetoss at the first possible opportunity.

 

[Sudai]

I'm gonna have to start recording more of my matches and putting them up for you guys.


Actually, you guys should wait like a week or two and then Sudai has a nice treat for all the ROB players out there. : )

 

[thaxceptional1]

I made him. I can unmake him, then make him again.

Really, I'm using the term loosely. The majority of ROB players out there right now are all using playstyles derived from the few early matches I had online (namely the Wifi Wars tournament) and from early tournament experiences they had personally. ROB has become more static, and much, much less dynamic; this has had a stifilng effect on ROB's development and this has turned ROB's progress away from improving ROB himself and instead focuses on how he plays in specific matchups. I do not believe that ROB has been fully explored yet, so am rebuilding him from the ground up using the knowledge I have already accumulated.

Results have been... good.

you invented a playstyle, that doesnt mean everyone will play like you, and if they did they wouldnt be very good.

so basically your saying you are gonna reinvent your playstyle for the people who follow and mimic what you do.

thats cool, but id think it be more interesting if you invented combos, different edgeguards, and strat to use.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

Bruce Lee writes?
ROB has lots of options left when holding an item, from laser spam to up-Bed aerials to mid-air drops, recatching it with an aerial or jab.

Ive gotten off some really good combos by not glidetossing the gyro but instead just throwing it at the opponent when they least expect it. When you glidetoss they know to shield but if you hold the gyro they dont know what you are going to do.

 

[ipitydatfu]

overswarms right. we should all try to "reinvent" ROB. At least most of us (most unlikely me XD) have reached the pinnacle of controlling or Robotic buddy. that peak has made us stagnant, allowing us being outmatched by other players, if not played carefully.

i'd totally want to learn how to consistently use the weak part of ROB's uptilt to combo, and stuff like that.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

I made him. I can unmake him, then make him again.

Really, I'm using the term loosely. The majority of ROB players out there right now are all using playstyles derived from the few early matches I had online (namely the Wifi Wars tournament) and from early tournament experiences they had personally. ROB has become more static, and much, much less dynamic; this has had a stifilng effect on ROB's development and this has turned ROB's progress away from improving ROB himself and instead focuses on how he plays in specific matchups. I do not believe that ROB has been fully explored yet, so am rebuilding him from the ground up using the knowledge I have already accumulated.

Results have been... good.

I main R.O.B....

And I do not even know how you play. xD

Does that mean that l suck? :-P

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Yes. Overswarm is considered one of the greatest ROBs. He pretty much found/thought of all of the techniques we use now.

I've also noticed how my playstyle hasn't really changed much recently. There used to be so much new things to put in, but now its just more of the same (mostly).

OS, I look forward to your reinvention. Hopefully its even more **** than the current one.

 

[Overswarm]

you invented a playstyle, that doesnt mean everyone will play like you, and if they did they wouldnt be very good.

so basically your saying you are gonna reinvent your playstyle for the people who follow and mimic what you do.

thats cool, but id think it be more interesting if you invented combos, different edgeguards, and strat to use.

I was the first ROB to do anything worthwhile and have videos of it on the internet for other aspiring ROBs. The only ROB who has actually shown a "playstyle" that differs from mine is MaxxxPower; everyone else has shown tricks being implemented, but ultimately mimic the same playstyle I found to come naturally to ROB.

Regardless, I don't think you quite understand what I mean by "reinventing" ROB. ROB always has the same tools at his disposal no matter how you play. It's how, and WHY, you use those tools that make you a good player. We've got the combos and whatnot down; there isn't much more to learn in that department. What little there is will come in time. The philosophical nature of the character though... that's different.



Also, just a teaser:

I have consistently 3 stocked and 2 stocked with low % my little brother for two days straight now. His Metaknight, Fox, Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer... whoever he picks up. There are only a few changes based on matchup; the general philosophy is the same.

While I have beaten my brother consistently in the past.... he's never had this rough of a time.

This playstyle is very, very logic based. Not instinct or "fun" based. It's literally like I have to switch on and off different aspects of my game. ^_^

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

Yes. Overswarm is considered one of the greatest ROBs. He pretty much found/thought of all of the techniques we use now.

I've also noticed how my playstyle hasn't really changed much recently. There used to be so much new things to put in, but now its just more of the same (mostly).

OS, I look forward to your reinvention. Hopefully its even more **** than the current one.

Not neccisarily. There are more good R.O.B. players to learn from. :-P

 

[Sudai]

i'd totally want to learn how to consistently use the weak part of ROB's uptilt to combo, and stuff like that.

That's an easy one. Soft UTilt > Jab > Grab

The Jab will keep them in the air right in front of you for you to grab. Sometimes you have to Soft UTilt > Grab, though only at lower percents.