Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[AbsoluteBlack]

her fsmash is almost the slowest move to come out in the game, man. utilt him

 

[Terotrous]

Geez, even random select is at least 50% Zetterburn. I just played like 15 matches of random and got 7 Zetterburns. I eventually gave up after getting 4 in a row.

I would like to believe everyone playing Zetterburn online is just getting him through random select.



Anyway, I'm now about 25 hours into the game, so here are my preliminary matchup impressions. The first listed character is the one I believe wins the match. Everything else is evenish unless noted.


Maypul +1 vs Forsburn:

Maypul is in many ways a better Forsburn, and it's pretty obvious in the direct matchup. Her combos are better, her recovery is better, and her edgeguarding is better. Forsburn has to work much harder to win this.


Maypul +1 vs Wrastor:

Wrastor is super light and dies at insanely low percents to Maypul's highly vertical combos. They both hit each other very hard, but she can often ToD him, which he can't. She's also almost as agile as he is even without the jet stream.


Kragg +1 vs Zetterburn:

Kragg has, by far, the easiest time edgeguarding Zetterburn, if he gets a single rock in Zetter is basically dead. He's also got the weight to take a few empowered strongs and punishes super hard if he gets a parry in.


Wrastor +1/2 vs Orcane

This is, to me, the most one-sided matchup in the entire game. Wrastor is so mobile that Orcane just can't land much of anything against him. Even if he does get hit by bubbles, he can usually just mash jump to get out, without putting himself at risk of losing recovery options.


Zetterburn +1 vs Forsburn:

Forsburn just has to work much too hard to kill Zetterburn, and letting Zetterburn live just gives him way too many chances to land an empowered strong.


Forsburn +1/0 vs Kragg

This is probably the most contentious matchup I can see here. Forsburn does get to combo Kragg really hard, and his big body makes him the easiest target for back air, though Kragg is one of the best at edgeguarding him between Rock and Pillar. This might be either even or +0.5.


This basically lines up with my general tierlist of Maypul S, Zetter / Kragg / Wrastor A, Forsburn / Orcane B.


Incidentally, if Orcane beat Maypul and Forsburn vs Maypul was even, the game would be almost perfectly balanced, everyone would have one winning and one losing matchup. This could probably be achieved simply by making her a bit lighter.

 

[NWRL]

So with Kragg, I think we're gonna start seeing people wavedash around more than run, you cover a larger distance in a short amount of time, and can set up a little better for tilts and whatnot

 

[Stick Dude]

Is it possible to play this game full-screen? If so, how?

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

Press f4 or alt enter

 

[Stick Dude]

Press f4 or alt enter

Thank you.

 

[Terotrous]

Be aware that this game inexplicably has way more lag when in fullscreen.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

That's the opposite of true in my experience, and also makes no sense given how windows handles such things

 

[Chuck Tatum]

Pff, yes, people do feel good about playing zetterburn because properly spacing and landing his big punishes takes a lot of skill.

If you are spacing wavedashes and you keep moving, watch fire and KNOW when you are safe and when you are in danger there is no reason you should be complaining about Zburn smashes. If not... yeah, you'll get wrecked by Zburns special gimmick just like you would be any other characters special gimmick. You think Wrastor can't just kill for free in those types of situations? Or Kragg... or Forsburn... or Orcane?

Every body gets free nonsense. It's AWESOME.

 

[kupo15]

Zburn's wolf fsmash seriously has a lot of power, wow. I'm sent across the screen as kragg at 40 and it's the only move to have a special impact sound, it's the only move that sounds scary on hit. Seems to me like they went out of their way to make that move unnecessarily stronger than the rest of his moves

I hope I named the correct character with this

 

[KuroganeHammer]

PSA to people struggling with Zetterburn: If you're on fire, stay away from him and you won't get stronged. It's not like he can KO early without fire or anything.

 

[Terotrous]

That's the opposite of true in my experience, and also makes no sense given how windows handles such things

There's like dozens of people saying this on Steam and even the devs have said "try windowed if you have problems".

Pff, yes, people do feel good about playing zetterburn because properly spacing and landing his big punishes takes a lot of skill.

I don't know, when I was playing the character last night (since Random decided that I should be playing him), I was attempting to play as non-scrubbily as possible, with no random Forward Strongs and actually poking with moves and such, but playing as him still felt really lame. He's just such a one-dimensional character. He plays very lame until you're at medium percent, then he lands one lucky hit or punish and you're dead.

Actually, I suppose in some sense, Zetterburn is actually fairly similar to Smash 4 Yoshi. Yoshi is also all about throwing those projectiles and staying safe at neutral, then when you get to high percents he does a spot dodge into Down B or sneaks in an up air and you die. That might actually be why he feels so wrong and bad, he's a Smash 4 character in a Project M-like game. If you couldn't shield Yoshi's projectiles I'm sure he'd be a stupidly broken character too.

You think Wrastor can't just kill for free in those types of situations? Or Kragg... or Forsburn... or Orcane?

Their kills are never nearly as free. Wrastor's combos almost always require you to read DI or hit with a move that has significant startup. Everything Forsburn does requires a read except for Down B, which is hard to get. Kragg's pillar is maybe the second-most braindead move in the game, but it doesn't kill nearly as early and has more counters. Orcane has Dash Attack into Forward Strong as well, but it isn't nearly as safe and doesn't kill as early. Alternatively, he needs a big read with up special or to trap you on bubbles at high percents.

Alternatively, you could just play Zetter and win by tossing out Forward Strong, since it has super fast startup and still kills at decent percents even without fire (my earlier test was very misleading, actual kill percents near the edge are more like 50-60% with fire, 110-120% without, which isn't really very bad even with no fire).

PSA to people struggling with Zetterburn: If you're on fire, stay away from him and you won't get stronged. It's not like he can KO early without fire or anything.

Actually, I'm starting to believe this is actually a terrible strategy and it's a big part of why he wins so much. Stage position is really important in this game, and most people will instantly give a Zetterburn full stage control the moment they get set on fire to avoid the super early KO, only to take a lot of damage and then get KOed at around 120% anyway. If there is an anti-Zetter strat, it's probably just to stand your ground and either continue the pressure or successfully avoid the forward strong. I found I was actually having better luck doing that than running away.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

Downsmash is as strong as fsmash on zburn. Does everyone complaining about fsmash even know that? And dsmash is frame 4. Fsmash is frame.... 12? ish? It's about the same as marth's in melee, which is far from 'super fast', but dsmash kind of is(strong hit in front is frame 10), but no one complains about it.

This kind of stuff is why I think you kind of just need to have better spacing/neutral and get good; your complaints don't make sense to me from an objective persperctive.

 

[kupo15]

Actually, I'm starting to believe this is actually a terrible strategy and it's a big part of why he wins so much. Stage position is really important in this game, and most people will instantly give a Zetterburn full stage control the moment they get set on fire to avoid the super early KO, only to take a lot of damage and then get KOed at around 120% anyway. If there is an anti-Zetter strat, it's probably just to stand your ground and either continue the pressure or successfully avoid the forward strong. I found I was actually having better luck doing that than running away.

I agree with this as well. Seems like this fire mechanic is promoting camping or running away because he can put fire everywhere and if getting caught on fire has deadly consequences then it'll promote people just running away and not fighting when they are on fire. Its inevitable that you will get caught unless you want to spend your entire game avoiding the fire instead of actually fighting.

Though I personally just go aggro anyway as I'm Kragg and can kill decently well but other characters may not be as lucky. Or perhaps its too early for me to realize how bad of an idea charging ahead while on fire actually is.

 

[Terotrous]

Downsmash is as strong as fsmash on zburn. Does everyone complaining about fsmash even know that?

Pretty sure I mentioned DSmash earlier. It's a solid kill option and it is much faster, but it lacks the explosive range of FSmash, which is really what makes that move so threatening.

I agree with this as well. Seems like this fire mechanic is promoting camping or running away because he can put fire everywhere and if getting caught on fire has deadly consequences then it'll promote people just running away and not fighting when they are on fire. Its inevitable that you will get caught unless you want to spend your entire game avoiding the fire instead of actually fighting.

Yeah, one thing I've noticed is that if you go in, you can often trade with the first hit of FSmash, which is perfectly safe. FSmash's first hitbox is not very advantageous, the whole move is basically just intended to chase down people who try to get away.

Though I personally just go aggro anyway as I'm Kragg and can kill decently well but other characters may not be as lucky. Or perhaps its too early for me to realize how bad of an idea charging ahead while on fire actually is.

Kragg should just throw rocks while on fire if he has the space to pull one, as Zetter has trouble getting around them. If you are too close for rocks, you could always go for a hard read with Side B or try to use Pillar instead, though both are a bit risky.

 

[Hylian]

Yo tero I sent you an invite on steam come play me . I'm tired of beating scrubs.

 

[Terotrous]

Yo tero I sent you an invite on steam come play me . I'm tired of beating scrubs.

Yeah, it was a good set. You can see why I wish some of Forsburn's stuff linked better, though, you can just mash tech to get out of almost all of his kill moves. At the very least I would like inescapable Jab.


In other news, the update to my guide is now posted on Gamefaqs:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/180910-rivals-of-aether/faqs/72421

 

[^^Fire^^]

I hate it when I fight 3 Zetterburns in a row online and they all kill me with the same dumb combo.
Side b to dash attack to dash attack to another dash attack to fstrong. I swear there's no way to get out of it.

Oh my GOD I can't take this game anymore! Every Zetterburn Kills me with random smashes, and I'm always on fire because when they're not smashing or dash attacking, they're spamming side b!

 

[kupo15]

I hate throwing rocks...it does nothing for me. Maybe its my experience as a ganon player doing what I need to do without projectiles but for me it just feels pretty pointless.

I wanna get in on the playing people action! Though my internet connection isn't the greatest so I'm sure the lag would be a problem. I had few decent small lag matches though. My steam is kupo150 in case anyone wants to try

 

[NWRL]

How are random ****ty Zburns beating you with spamming side b and random smashes?

I eat those guys alive with Kragg

Zburns who know how to play are cancer though, the character probably needs more tuning.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

I really feel that people don't even know what they should be complaining about yet.

In MY day, zburn smashes killed at 50%, with fire OR without.

And god darnit, we LIKED it that way.

 

[Omadon]

Right - I picked up a copy of this earlier today and can't get my stick to work with it (I've got a hitbox). I've made sure the computer is registering inputs - which it is. I just can't seem to rebind the buttons to my stick. Anyone had this issue and discovered its subsequent fix? x

 

[Terotrous]

I really feel that people don't even know what they should be complaining about yet.

In MY day, zburn smashes killed at 50%, with fire OR without.

And god darnit, we LIKED it that way.

At least it would be consistent.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

In my day, kragg's pillar true combod into utilt, which true combod into his old kill move uair! And downb killed at 60% and was STILL unpunishable!

 

[kupo15]

How does it combo at 60%? Can't they just DI away?

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

No like, it killed at 60. Off the top. Ah, the good old days

 

[Omadon]

Right - I picked up a copy of this earlier today and can't get my stick to work with it (I've got a hitbox). I've made sure the computer is registering inputs - which it is. I just can't seem to rebind the buttons to my stick. Anyone had this issue and discovered its subsequent fix? x

Bump x

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

*shrug* you can use x360 or another xinput wrapper on your stick; rivals only really accepts xbox360 controllers atm

 

[Chuck Tatum]

As an aside, recently, as I have worked more and more wavedashing/wavelanding in my play style I have found it to be more or less indispensible to high level play. As I get better at it, the skill gap between me and my friends who have trouble with it is widening and widening.

I keep hearing people complain about how WD/WL is useless and all I can say is that they are really really wrong.

It seems like wavedashing, since it is SO much faster than walking normally for every character is like a must. Like, you should really be wavedashing/wavelanding almost every second of every match, even moreso than in melee.

It's too much, it's annoying to have to wavedash that much to be playing your 'best.' and it makes me artificially better than my friends who just don't know how to wavedash/waveland as well. I don't know if what i would consider 'basic' movement should be locked away behind a tech skill barrier like that.

Grant it, it's really fun to move around super slick, just as fun as it was in melee so I am not arguing for wding to be removed or anything but...

tldr

I would really like to see walk speeds of all chars increased a fair amount to make their walk,/run speeds closer to wavedashing. Right now, there is really no reason 'not' to be wavedashing in a large large number of situations. Either that, or I think it would be good to add an 'easy wavedash' command/button.

 

[Streetwize]

I reported the Zetterburn Dash Attack spam early in the year. I adapted by DI'ing to the ground and tech, but it was still in his favor somewhat. Wrastor can at least DI high enough to escape. It's annoying to deal with, and I wish I knew it was going to be this bad. It probably does need some fixing such as more endlag especially since he can Gatling Combo now.

 

[Hylian]

His dash attack is pretty easy to deal with lol. You probably just need to get better.

 

[Terotrous]

I would really like to see walk speeds of all chars increased a fair amount to make their walk,/run speeds closer to wavedashing. Right now, there is really no reason 'not' to be wavedashing in a large large number of situations. Either that, or I think it would be good to add an 'easy wavedash' command/button.

I would also probably support replacing the dash button with a wavedash button. Does anyone really need a button to do a regular dash?

 

[Streetwize]

--Snipped--

I can imagine a game where you have to repeatedly press a direction to move. Interesting in concept, but would get old fast in a game as competitive as RoA. I'm scared to see how the neutral will evolve through mashing a button to move around.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

I can imagine a game where you have to repeatedly press a direction to move. Interesting in concept, but would get old fast in a game as competitive as RoA. I'm scared to see how the neutral will evolve through mashing a button to move around.

What do you mean? You already mash a button to move around... it's just that you mash two buttons to move around (jump and dodge) if you're good.

 

[Couch Pals]

Hey folks! I just finished making a mock style review for this game (So silly at first and serious at the end) and for people who have been following this game's progression from beginning to end I'd love to have you check out the video in hopes to know whether I did good in defending/reviewing this game. (I do swear a bit so this is an above-sh PG rating video)

 

[RoA_Zam]

I reported the Zetterburn Dash Attack spam early in the year. I adapted by DI'ing to the ground and tech, but it was still in his favor somewhat. Wrastor can at least DI high enough to escape. It's annoying to deal with, and I wish I knew it was going to be this bad. It probably does need some fixing such as more endlag especially since he can Gatling Combo now.

Forsburn's is worse to deal with.

 

[Terotrous]

Forsburn's is worse to deal with.

It doesn't (usually) lead directly to death, though.

 

[RoA_Zam]

It doesn't (usually) lead directly to death, though.

it combos into fair > nair/dair/downB easily, and takes 0 effort to chain into itself. Any move can "lead to death"

 

[Terotrous]

it combos into fair > nair/dair/downB easily, and takes 0 effort to chain into itself. Any move can "lead to death"

Yeah, it can often be death if you have down B stocked, though a good opponent will try to stop you from getting it easily, because a really simple high damage conversion option is a tool you really don't want Forsburn to have.

Generally though Forsburn usually needs some kind of read on DI to get a kill.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Yeah, it can often be death if you have down B stocked, though a good opponent will try to stop you from getting it easily, because a really simple high damage conversion option is a tool you really don't want Forsburn to have.

Generally though Forsburn usually needs some kind of read on DI to get a kill.

Not from my experience.