"Revival of DGames" Mafia

[Spak]

Falsified votes? You mean when he thought I voted you or Gheb voted J? That seemed more like honest mistakes, I myself made the mistake of thinking Raziek was playing the game. I mean do you really expect a scum player to pull off something like that and hope all other players simply do not check the thread to check its false? Is that the only reason you were scumreading Maven?

I meant whenever he said he was at 5 votes and Ryu was at 6, which wasn't true. I realized that a missed vote count is a fairly easy mistake to make honestly (I did it after I got mad at Maven for doing it) and as he pointed out to me it wouldn't make much sense to tell everyone Ryu is under the hammer when he really wasn't. That's why I said "I didn't hold him on that because it could have been purely by mistake" in the post that you quoted.

 

[Fandangox]

If that's your sole reason that's a pretty poor reason to scumread anybody, Spak.

 

[Spak]

The second half of that statement was one of the main reasons I read Maven as scum, the first one was something that I saw at the time (and was a reason for only about 30 minutes). There's a reason Maven isn't as scummy anymore in my view.

 

[Fandangox]

So then, again, who do you think is scum, and please elaborate on why.

 

[Spak]

I still think Ryu is the most scummy from reasons I already told you, and a complete lack of me picking up on any other clues as to whowho else could be scum. I know I'm missing something because there has to be more than one scum, but I don't know what.

 

[Fandangox]

What are your reads on WATT, Laundry, and Rake?

 

[Kantrip]

Alright here's the deal with Ryu/Rake:

Rosalina was Red Ryu, Town Amnesiac Tracker.

Red Ryu is Raziek and started with a phone that could allow him to receive messages, although it wasn't specified what that entailed.

He also started with a gamecube controller which I suspect is probably a junk/flavour item. I don't like how Rake is using this item as part of his basis for being on Ryu as iirc Ryker also mentioned earlier that he has a junk item with no discernable purpose.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems pretty obvious to me that these two roles interact via their cell phones. Specifically, Ryu's role receives the results of the Amnesiac Tracker. Ryu probably is telling the truth about getting a one-shot track ability once Rosalina died which is probably a mechanic in place to buff the amnesiac tracker a bit should it die early.

Rake got Rosalina's items when Rosalina died, so he inherited the cell phone. Ryu was being a dumbie for being suspicious of how Rake got the phone as it was pretty clearly laid out for him.

With the amnesiac tracker dead, the two cell phones changed their function to a neighbour ability for whomever happened to possess them. This was also most likely a pre-planned role interaction.

The only part of all this that doesn't make sense is the convo being randomly cut off, but I have a feeling that is the result of a role that steals items likely being in the game and stealing Ryu's phone.

In all of this, Ryu looks like he's being oblivious to what's happening around him but I don't see scum intent at any point and I think he's been honest.

However, Rake was very opportunistic in jumping at Ryu for his role doing something different than he claimed even though I think it's obvious why that happened, and then throwing random points such as Ryu possessing a useless item onto his case. Rake comes off as overzealous scum who overextended in thinking he could mislynch Ryu off this role stuff, and I think he is scum.

Vote: Rake

 

[Fandangox]

That's how Ryker sees it too, I can see what you both mean, but I am not too convinced, the conversation being cut off makes me still think one of them is lying, an item-stealing role sounds plausible, but in that situation would Rake just be able to communicate with the thief?

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems pretty obvious to me that these two roles interact via their cell phones. Specifically, Ryu's role receives the results of the Amnesiac Tracker. Ryu probably is telling the truth about getting a one-shot track ability once Rosalina died which is probably a mechanic in place to buff the amnesiac tracker a bit should it die early./quote]

Why would Ryu receive that ability when Rosa died though?

 

[Kantrip]

Because his role was tied to Rosalina's since she was the amnesiac tracker. Once it died Ryu gained a one-shot track to compensate for his sister role being killed and his cell phone repurposed itself to a neighbour tool

 

[Kantrip]

You raise an interesting point that Rake should be able to communicate with someone else if Ryu's phone got stolen.

@ Shun Goku Satsu Rake What happens if you try to use the phone? Can you still communicate with someone?

@Red Ryu Is the phone still in your inventory?

 

[Kantrip]

@ #HBC | Ryker talk to me about Ryu's intent in all this. I know you see Rake's opportunism and you agree with me on what likely happened mechanically, but how does this fit into how Ryu would play it as town/scum? I see the town angle moreso than scum but I know you're trying to weigh the two

 

[Kantrip]

I like WATT a lot more since they moved on from the drunk garbage. I like Fanny. I like Maven but still need to look at why Gheb disliked him.

I don't like Ryu but think he's probably town.

I tentatively like Laundry, but his pro-townness isn't as clear as it was early game.

Ryker and Dancer are good but I'm not confident enough to call them town. Ryker definitely better Day 2 now that I can see into his head a bit though.

Spak I'm conflicted on but I'd call him scummier if J is scum, and I dislike J but wanna see what he comes up with when he gets back.

I dislike Rake the most after his jump at Ryu and he hasn't really had much direction past that despite all the questions I liked from him.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Alright here's the deal with Ryu/Rake:

Rosalina was Red Ryu, Town Amnesiac Tracker.

Red Ryu is Raziek and started with a phone that could allow him to receive messages, although it wasn't specified what that entailed.

He also started with a gamecube controller which I suspect is probably a junk/flavour item. I don't like how Rake is using this item as part of his basis for being on Ryu as iirc Ryker also mentioned earlier that he has a junk item with no discernable purpose.

I don't know about anyone else, but it seems pretty obvious to me that these two roles interact via their cell phones. Specifically, Ryu's role receives the results of the Amnesiac Tracker. Ryu probably is telling the truth about getting a one-shot track ability once Rosalina died which is probably a mechanic in place to buff the amnesiac tracker a bit should it die early.

Rake got Rosalina's items when Rosalina died, so he inherited the cell phone. Ryu was being a dumbie for being suspicious of how Rake got the phone as it was pretty clearly laid out for him.

With the amnesiac tracker dead, the two cell phones changed their function to a neighbour ability for whomever happened to possess them. This was also most likely a pre-planned role interaction.

The only part of all this that doesn't make sense is the convo being randomly cut off, but I have a feeling that is the result of a role that steals items likely being in the game and stealing Ryu's phone.

In all of this, Ryu looks like he's being oblivious to what's happening around him but I don't see scum intent at any point and I think he's been honest.

However, Rake was very opportunistic in jumping at Ryu for his role doing something different than he claimed even though I think it's obvious why that happened, and then throwing random points such as Ryu possessing a useless item onto his case. Rake comes off as overzealous scum who overextended in thinking he could mislynch Ryu off this role stuff, and I think he is scum.

Vote: Rake

If I wanted to lynch ryu as scum I could do a lot better than pushing him over this lol. I realized the same thing you did just hours ago. I still don't like ryu just being given a track cause "Oh well he and Rosie had thier whole thing" but I'm working through it. Also I'm never over zealous as scum so this push is pretty bad lulz. Also I already stated I don't know how to use the phone. I.e bardull stated I don't know what to do with it when I git it.

And even if I coukd the person who stole it ain't gonna answer or call me. Like why on the **** would they. They have no reason as town to steal from ryu other than. "He was pushed yesterday " which is total wifom and stealing is bad

 

[Spak]

@Red Ryu Is the phone still in your inventory?

He said that someone stole it

You raise an interesting point that Rake should be able to communicate with someone else if Ryu's phone got stolen.

Thank you.

We can wait until tomorrow and see if the phone being stolen is real (based on either getting an item from hammer (like Ryu did) or Rake calling it tomorrow night and see who picks up) and who stole it, but the whole situation just seems a bit wacky.

I just need to step away from the game for a little bit and re-read with a fresh mind. I'll re-read Rake's, Ryu's, Kantrip's and WoTT's more recent posts tonight. I've not payed much attention to their posts recently.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I like WATT a lot more since they moved on from the drunk garbage. I like Fanny. I like Maven but still need to look at why Gheb disliked him.

I don't like Ryu but think he's probably town.

I tentatively like Laundry, but his pro-townness isn't as clear as it was early game.

Ryker and Dancer are good but I'm not confident enough to call them town. Ryker definitely better Day 2 now that I can see into his head a bit though.

Spak I'm conflicted on but I'd call him scummier if J is scum, and I dislike J but wanna see what he comes up with when he gets back.

I dislike Rake the most after his jump at Ryu and he hasn't really had much direction past that despite all the questions I liked from him.

Do you think laundrys action was townie though.
Be aware I'm asking for the distinction cause honestly I'm on the fence between the goid of "His logic is sound and used it on a topic de jour" but the power itself seems up in the air to me

 

[Kantrip]

Do you think laundrys action was townie though.
Be aware I'm asking for the distinction cause honestly I'm on the fence between the goid of "His logic is sound and used it on a topic de jour" but the power itself seems up in the air to me

The ability itself could be either alignment. I like that he claimed responsibility for doing it seeing as it was anonymous and he could have kept it hidden, and his target and reasoning checks out to me. Honestly I think he would want to pick Ryker regardless of his alignment, to rolecop him as scum or try to clear or condemn him as scum. I'd prefer to leave the headache of deciphering role crap alone.

 

[Kantrip]

EBWOP: Second "scum" should say "town"

 

[Kantrip]

If I wanted to lynch ryu as scum I could do a lot better than pushing him over this lol. I realized the same thing you did just hours ago. I still don't like ryu just being given a track cause "Oh well he and Rosie had thier whole thing" but I'm working through it. Also I'm never over zealous as scum so this push is pretty bad lulz. Also I already stated I don't know how to use the phone. I.e bardull stated I don't know what to do with it when I git it.

And even if I coukd the person who stole it ain't gonna answer or call me. Like why on the **** would they. They have no reason as town to steal from ryu other than. "He was pushed yesterday " which is total wifom and stealing is bad

It said you didn't know how to use the phone?

If that's true then it was probably like "if one of the Amnesiac Tracker or his recipient dies, the other one becomes a Neighbourizer who can target whomever gets the other phone and also gets a one shot Track?"

I dont see why Ryu would lie about that, if that's what you're implying.

 

[Kantrip]

And yes I realize the irony of saying I want to ignore the headache of Laundry's ability while I continue to work through what happened with Rake and Ryu's role shenanigans. Get at me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

@ #HBC | Ryker talk to me about Ryu's intent in all this. I know you see Rake's opportunism and you agree with me on what likely happened mechanically, but how does this fit into how Ryu would play it as town/scum? I see the town angle moreso than scum but I know you're trying to weigh the two

I think he has ****ed up royally in his play. If I didn't not have this claim shenaniganry, I would think he was certainly scum. As it stands, if he were scum, I think he would've had a much better idea of what is going on with the situation and would not be faking this message and phone theft as it serves no purpose other than to strap him down firmly in the hot seat.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Reading things that didn't involve me getting tagged now.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Although her being amnesiac.
Still sits wrong with me you magically only knew what the phone did last night and that it magically got stolen out of left field. Also agree with laundry that it smells off you don't know what your other item does.

The nly reason you might have been getting messages is cause maybe Rosie sent them to you via phone due to amnesiac but still doesn't feel right.

Also don't like this magical track ability you gained. That just feels off for all the reasons

That is very vague. What are all of the reasons?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I like this Kantrip fellow.

@#HBC | Laundry Weigh in on Rake?
@ Wots All This Then? You still think we should lynch Ruy?
@Both What do we do with J?

 

[Fandangox]

If I wanted to lynch ryu as scum I could do a lot better than pushing him over this lol.

Then why aren't you?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Then why aren't you?

you misread that.

I was saying from a POV of me being scum trying to ML ryu as skantrip was implying

 

[Kantrip]

"I'm only this dumb as town"

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also dislike kantrip saying essentially: well if ryker can have useless ****, then so can ryu and therefore moot point. Like thats kinda a handwave since ryker and ryu are you know, two different roles and all. Just cause ryker has useless **** doesnt suddenly redeem ryu having useless ****.

 

[Fandangox]

you misread that.

I was saying from a POV of me being scum trying to ML ryu as skantrip was implying

Regardless, is that the only reason you want Ryu dead?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

It said you didn't know how to use the phone?

If that's true then it was probably like "if one of the Amnesiac Tracker or his recipient dies, the other one becomes a Neighbourizer who can target whomever gets the other phone and also gets a one shot Track?"

I dont see why Ryu would lie about that, if that's what you're implying.

to paraphrase it said i got the phone but didn't know wat do but took it anyway.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Regardless, is that the only reason you want Ryu dead?

His play comes into it but I'm kinda thinking now that scum ryu really wouldn't claim the one shot track, or even fake it, because its such a out of left fiueld thing to try. Like on first go anyone pushing him would be like : oh look ryu's fear tacting us by claiming he's got this **** with the one shot track he picked up. Like it's not som,ething i can totally see scum ryu going: yeah i'll just tell them hammered rosie got me a one shot track. Like what does it achieve.

I still really dislike him not knowing what the cellphone did because flavor contextually, it's a cellphone, it's gonna make phone calls. kantrip's theory about the roles may hold salt but thats wifom now and the thing that pauses me even moreso is usally amnesiacs just send results randomly as i recall, so why would rosie suddenly have a cell phone, and share said item with ryu , and be sending it to the claimed "gossip mod" like it's alot of ands to tack on that delve into role wifom for me. As i said before i thought ryu had bs'd the claim which is why i brought it up and I'm not sad i did either cause at the very least it kicked ryu in here.

I'm really on the fence now which is why i haven't answered kantrips question about wanting the ryu lynch.

Like part of me just really believes Ryu's hiding aspects of his role but the way's he's talked about it (even though i think laundry calling him out on how it was changing wasn't too far off the truth) it just seems so ridiculous there's a part of me that realizes it's too ridiculous for ryu to do as scum.



I think he's still worth having pressure on at least cause his play D1 wasn't exactly stellar either, which by the way, ryu tried to make it seem like all I'm calling him out on is this, but this is just the major thing, I didn't exactly love ryu yesterday, I did swign away from his lynch to be fair but only because he was doing exactly just enough for me to be willing to take a shot, but with what happened at night, that changed my opinion on how i treated him previosuly

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I like this Kantrip fellow.

@#HBC | Laundry Weigh in on Rake?
@ Wots All This Then? You still think we should lynch Ruy?
@Both What do we do with J?

Meh. I'm just not sure where to swing if i don't.
I liked js early d2 minus the fact he was aiming at swords. Wanna see what he does post vla, if still at swords suspect

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

It said you didn't know how to use the phone?

If that's true then it was probably like "if one of the Amnesiac Tracker or his recipient dies, the other one becomes a Neighbourizer who can target whomever gets the other phone and also gets a one shot Track?"

I dont see why Ryu would lie about that, if that's what you're implying.

it could be hidden, likke im working under the assumption roise didnt know that her cell may have been how she put the results out, (hence amnesiac) but for ryu to not at least know that his phone could make calls seems suspicous (not so much that he wouldnt know the messages were coming from rosie cause why would he be informed who was sending the results to him

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

still, to have the amnesiac send results to just one person, holding the other cellphone ? thats a big risk vs reward for balance cause if scum picks it up or steals it, pretty much game over in terms of ever seeing those results

 

[Fandangox]

At your 1110 Rake, so do you want Ryu gone or not, doesn't seem to clear, seems like you have reasons to believe he is both town and scum, but can't seem to decide which.

I think J's should be today's Lynch. I didn't like the slot D1, His Dancer push seems rather weak, and he still hassn't explained his vote for Maven, in terms of information we could probably get a lot out of J's flip if everyone agrees J and Ryu wouldn't be on a scumteam together.

Same with Spak, spak has had no pushed, and despite voicing dislike for Ryu he hasn't done anything to move that forward.

Other thing of note, Maven is still unreadable to me, a thing that worries me about the slot is that Gheb was the one pushing for that lynch and he got killed N1.

By interactions though, I really don't see Maven and J being scum together, but I don't know what everyone else thinks about that.

Vote: J

 

[Kantrip]

Also dislike kantrip saying essentially: well if ryker can have useless ****, then so can ryu and therefore moot point. Like thats kinda a handwave since ryker and ryu are you know, two different roles and all. Just cause ryker has useless **** doesnt suddenly redeem ryu having useless ****.

It renders your argument:
"Ruy is scum because he has a gamecube controller and he doesn't know what it does" useless, as it is verifiable proof that not all items have a purpose. Obviously Ryker and Ryu are two different roles you doorknob.

 

[Kantrip]

it could be hidden, likke im working under the assumption roise didnt know that her cell may have been how she put the results out, (hence amnesiac) but for ryu to not at least know that his phone could make calls seems suspicous (not so much that he wouldnt know the messages were coming from rosie cause why would he be informed who was sending the results to him

Because it literally couldn't make calls until Rosalina died, and when he originally received his role it said what he claimed, which is that he could receive messages through it.

If you'll recall, Ryu had no idea what that was supposed to mean, but now that Rosalina flipped Amnesiac Tracker with a flavour connected to Ryu's and Ryu's role changed, it's pretty clear what the nature of those messages were.

I've been saying that Ryu gained the ability to open up a neighbourhood through his phone when he received a one-shot track, which was triggered by the Amnesiac Tracker with his matching phone dying.

 

[Kantrip]

still, to have the amnesiac send results to just one person, holding the other cellphone ? thats a big risk vs reward for balance cause if scum picks it up or steals it, pretty much game over in terms of ever seeing those results

Except that's exactly how the Amnesiac role always works. Look at Scott Pilgrim mafia. Look at mafiascum wiki. Look at literally any game that has used this role. Hell, the designated recipient has been known to be scum to begin with sometimes! It was obviously a balancing point to weaken a straight tracker into one that could be more easily messed with, but it seems there were some safety mechanics set in place as well considering the new abilities Ryu got.

 

[Kantrip]

@rake ~ Desu - Can you lay out, as clearly as possible, the things that make Ryu scummy to you?

 

[Kantrip]

EBWOP: @ Shun Goku Satsu Rake

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

@rake ~ Desu - Can you lay out, as clearly as possible, the things that make Ryu scummy to you?

already did this