"Revival of DGames" Mafia

[#HBC | Laundry]

The only person I know as town is myself. If, hypothetically, I were scum, that might have implied WoTT as scum early-game, but he's been questioning my posts a moderate amount recently (but not pushing to a scum level, nor giving more empty pushes).

No, the scumteam would know whether or not you're scum and, unless there's an Indy, can likely assume you're town. More often than not, they can act like they have that knowledge.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

If there is no difference why is it a scum tell? Scum J is different to me and it becomes more apparent as the game goes on because lack of progress over the whole course.

If we singling out unhelpful, why J and not others? Raz does this same stuff til like day 3.

If it weren't for meta I would agree to push J to post more, here not so much I do not think it's a strict tell he is scum unless there is more to it than what has done so far.

Who are the others Ryu?

I don't think I've heard you take a stance on much yet besides generally agreed upon town leans.

Who are you looking at?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

What do you mean by that? I have no idea how he plays nor an idea how to operate of he were to be scum.

I mean that you dropped the "I'm pressuring him for a read" card like it absolves you of anything.

You know why I have been looking at him, I have only been continueing such to make sure I'm not wrong for right now in letting him go about.

Mental Torture, Self-Destroyer,
Can't ignore the Paranoia

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

As far as I can tell, no one has had problems with any of Orbo's posts since he sobered either.

Orbo has posted effectively once, right?

unvote

Not really feeling the WoTT wagon anymore.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

For the record he's not V/LA anymore, I played a ton of Yomi with him yesterday night (which itself probably is a reason to have not posted), but he should be here.

"Ryker tends to avoid mafia the night after he returns from a tournament."

-Me a bit ago

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

but what alignment does that make him?t

Unreadable. That's the crux of the issue with J. He's not making moves, he's just hanging in the background posting prods here and there.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Drunk me-seems legit

What? No. Drunk you didn't say "seems legit", drunk you said something completely unrelated to his explanation and deflected to me.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

But i didnt say anything further on the matter

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Oh ****. I forgot completely I was in this game.

I'm going to be catching up tomorrow. I've got work and a Yomi game. @Jdietz43 @ #HBC | Laundry casually mention that you are reading a mafia game to me at some point late tomorrow if I'm not posting.

vote: Ryker

This gets removed as soon as you play the game.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

But i didnt say anything further on the matter

So? You posted an answer that deflected to me and let it go. Saying "okay, I understand" makes perfect sense. Saying "That was Laundry, not me" looks suspicious as hell.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

So? You posted an answer that deflected to me and let it go. Saying "okay, I understand" makes perfect sense. Saying "That was Laundry, not me" looks suspicious as hell.

Not what i meant

 

[Spak]

No, the scumteam would know whether or not you're scum and, unless there's an Indy, can likely assume you're town. More often than not, they can act like they have that knowledge.

The first sentence is in response to who "the only person I would know is scum" is, the second would be what my read on WoTTs would be if I were actually scum. I don't see what you're getting at; the question was directed towards me, not the scumteam (and even if you were to address the scumteam, I doubt anyone would answer lol). Is this response just a pressure to see if I respond with any super-confident town reads?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Guys stop posting and let me catch up pls.

Also computer is slow so I'm lazy with my formatting/references, sorry about that in advance.

I honestly feel angry because it seems like you either aren't reading or want any excuse to push at us. It feels made up. Once again I think the closest we've ever come to calling Spak interesting is the post I wrote him off as newb null in during the back and forth with Laundry:

So do you think Rake is scum then?

PS: I don't think this is made up.

Agreed.

Tbh, I am surprised you aren't on me. Last I remember, you are one of the few people who are always on me regardless of what game it is. It is striking me as a bit off that you aren't trying to combat me like you usually do.

Watt quoted this in his 317 and it's something that escaped my attention until now. Maybe I'm being relentless here but I do think it's another good example of forced content from J's part.

@ #HBC | Laundry : I understand your meta reasoning for not pushing J based on his lack of content but what do you think of his content produced so far? That's what I'm really interested in.

Mang this computer is actually so annoyingly slow that I'm going to relocate to finish this catch up. Be back in like an hour or so.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I too, shall continue my catch-up now. I got roped into something else.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

You and laundry both say this, is J's scumplay any different?

It's not a question of scumplay or townplay. It's the fact that it's coinflip play. That's why I'm hesitant to lynch him. He's not doing anything, sure, but he has a history of pulling this stunt as either alignment and AtEing his way out of it or, on the occasion he pushes it too hard, perishes. In fact, in my very last game I played with him, he pulled this **** and got lynched D1 for it. It's very lynchable behavior, I've never called that into question, it's just that he, for some reason, thinks is a reasonable strategy as a townie.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

If there is no difference why is it a scum tell? Scum J is different to me and it becomes more apparent as the game goes on because lack of progress over the whole course.

If we singling out unhelpful, why J and not others? Raz does this same stuff til like day 3.

If it weren't for meta I would agree to push J to post more, here not so much I do not think it's a strict tell he is scum unless there is more to it than what has done so far.

"Why J and why not others"
"Why is it a scumtell"
"if it weren't J"

Ruy setting up conditions to get out of a potential J lynch, noted.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I went back to look at Ruy's posts on a whim (because I haven't really liked him much at all this game, shocker):

[collapse=wtf]

Shall we be friends J?

Is this going to be war? I'm siding with J.

I'll admit 2 of the four are joke rvs, make me a hipocrite I guess.

The rest at J are not worthless. My comments at you still stand.

If there is no difference why is it a scum tell? Scum J is different to me and it becomes more apparent as the game goes on because lack of progress over the whole course.

If we singling out unhelpful, why J and not others? Raz does this same stuff til like day 3.

If it weren't for meta I would agree to push J to post more, here not so much I do not think it's a strict tell he is scum unless there is more to it than what has done so far.

I realize some of this is true, but this wasn't J we were talking about I would be more open to this idea of him
being scum.

At the same time, is this an active problem with his currency posting.

What is up with all the J votes?

sigh J.

Can you tell me where you stand on current people at least? Like maybe where we should be looking? I'll read your larger post after I post this.

[/collapse]

Why is he so gogdamn interested in J? Did he like how J looked at the DGames Homecoming dance in his pretty dress and red curls? I don't get it. And why does that post in red stick out so bloody much?

 

[Kantrip]

why did you like it ?

Also shhhhh. I'm being subtle. The armchair critique and salt are my d2 restriction

You asked good questions. I actually saw what you could gain from them in terms of scumhunting which I rarely do with you.

Kantrip is ryu scum ?

It's very possible. I certainly think he's a good lynch choice right now

What's your angle on Orbo's shenanigans? I personally hate it but part of me can see how it might have gone down in townorbo's head

 

[Kantrip]

Laundry are you trying to propose a possible J/Ryu team?

I feel like Ryu's been overly direct with his interest in J that I'm not sure he would risk it if they were mates. It's definitely a weird connection though

- - -

I'm on the fence between voting Ryu or voting WATT right now. For the sake of using my vote I'll

Vote: Ryu

but I'm not super solid with a scum read on either atm

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Also, maybe it's just me, but has Ruy actually committed to anything this game?

His Spak read is mostly just for the sake of pressure:

Why it is weird of me to openly admit I find him slightly suspicious but then say I am trying to feel him out and get an idea where I can put him. I don't want to blindly throw him in one read or another when I don't know him in a mafia setting.

What do you mean by that? I have no idea how he plays nor an idea how to operate of he were to be scum.

You know why I have been looking at him, I have only been continueing such to make sure I'm not wrong for right now in letting him go about.

And yet despite this, he has Spak as town all of a sudden in his #367

Meanwhile, he says this about J:

I realize some of this is true, but this wasn't J we were talking about I would be more open to this idea of him
being scum.

At the same time, is this an active problem with his currency posting.

I dunno guys, do you think Ruy has actively pushed a slot all game? I certainly don't.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Laundry are you trying to propose a possible J/Ryu team?

I feel like Ryu's been overly direct with his interest in J that I'm not sure he would risk it if they were mates. It's definitely a weird connection though

- - -

I'm on the fence between voting Ryu or voting WATT right now. For the sake of using my vote I'll

Vote: Ryu

but I'm not super solid with a scum read on either atm

No. I actually think if Ryu flipped scum, J's probably town. I imagine he's trying to put himself on J's good side, if this isn't somehow PR-related. I doubt it's the latter as I didn't see anything to make me suspicious of such, but his weird buddying and random defense of J seems a little too uncanny and, when compared to my approach to J, seems a tad more nefarious.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

**** it, my Ryker vote won't do **** now anyway

vote: Ryu

I feel a little more solid with that than with WoTT at the moment, though I still don't truly trust WoTT. I wanna re-analyze that slot.

 

[Kantrip]

No. I actually think if Ryu flipped scum, J's probably town. I imagine he's trying to put himself on J's good side, if this isn't somehow PR-related. I doubt it's the latter as I didn't see anything to make me suspicious of such, but his weird buddying and random defense of J seems a little too uncanny and, when compared to my approach to J, seems a tad more nefarious.

Yeah that makes more sense to me too. J's behaviour so far has been frustratingly par for the course as far as D1 J goes but Ryu's focus on him seems really unnatural and is either an attempt to get town points on a townJ flip or some weird attempt to get his attention

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yeah that makes more sense to me too. J's behaviour so far has been frustratingly par for the course as far as D1 J goes but Ryu's focus on him seems really unnatural and is either an attempt to get town points on a townJ flip or some weird attempt to get his attention

Even then, what do you make of the rest of his play?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Updated readslist:

Scumy:
Ruy

Apparently we tried to **** a female dog cause this guy's a *****:
WoTT

Town:
Rake
Maven
Kantrip

Still belongs in a dumpster fire:
Rosa
J

 

[Kantrip]

Even then, what do you make of the rest of his play?

Ryu's?

It's undeniably grimy, as I noticed when I was catching up. He rehashes a bunch of questions at Spak that have already been answered and throws his vote on and tries to pass it off as "pressure," which is odd because the best he could have gotten from that is some answers to questions that have already been answered and/or newbie floundering that would accomplish nothing except make Spak look worse regardless of alignment. I always hate his fluffposting even though it's null, and his hard defense of J and "pressure" on Spak are among the only "stances" he's even shown.

I'm positive I dislike him and wouldn't mind seeing him lynched, but less positive that it definitely means he's scum.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Clarification:

I've lost a lot of what I had on WoTT. A lot of that is due to how he turned into a vortex of complaints after receiving enough pressure that I can't be arsed to put much thought into what he's trying to say at the moment. All I had was that his weird turn on Spak felt very off and, while I still don't trust it, I have gained nothing else to push him on, save for maybe how quickly he got defensive over it. I wanna re-analyze the slot but that comes later.

Meanwhile Ruy has taken a very strong fascination in J this game for inexplicable reasons and, despite this, has had a very plodding approach to scumhunting, one that doesn't really get anywhere. He goes onto him but the entire time, when questioned by others, says it's purely for pressure because he wants to be sure he's right about Spak (despite most of his questions already being asked and the thread moving on from him). Why, then, does he leave him as a town lean and mostly abandon it? Where did the pressure go? What caused him to end up as a town lean? These things aren't answered yet this has been Ruy's biggest slot to pressure in a game where WoTT is ****ting all over the thread and others are responding to it. That's not even going into his strange obsession with J, the fact that he's had direct prods at me that he never did **** with, and a bunch of other promises of action with nary a result. I don't trust it, and I'd hang this slot over anyone right now.

J and Rosa can go into a dumpster fire for all I care. J will resolve himself as the game goes on but I hate his approach to D1 and he's well aware of that. Rosa's just a steaming pile of newbie that will take awhile to decipher as the game goes on, but I simply don't wanna deal with it.

I still think Maven's townie but his J push (and the precedent he set for it with the Ryker push) have me skeptical. I'm not sure why he's pushing there when he accurately pinned Ruy on a good point. He had a golden opportunity and left it alone (hell, gave Ruy a pass for it) in favor of pushing alpha Ryker and later ****lord J. I think if Ruy flips scum, this is the first read to drop.

I like Rake and Kantrip a lot this game. I shouldn't have to explain why.

Everyone else has left nary an impression on me.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Ryu's?

It's undeniably grimy, as I noticed when I was catching up. He rehashes a bunch of questions at Spak that have already been answered and throws his vote on and tries to pass it off as "pressure," which is odd because the best he could have gotten from that is some answers to questions that have already been answered and/or newbie floundering that would accomplish nothing except make Spak look worse regardless of alignment. I always hate his fluffposting even though it's null, and his hard defense of J and "pressure" on Spak are among the only "stances" he's even shown.

I'm positive I dislike him and wouldn't mind seeing him lynched, but less positive that it definitely means he's scum.

It's somewhat surprising but we have a lot of nuller ****. Since you decided to play the game, the only inactive we have is Ryker shameless prod-dodging as of this point (I haven't forgotten about you @#HBC | Ryker ), yet despite this our best lynches right now feel so week. That's very strange.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Yeah, I'm starting to agree. #283 is too convoluted to be faked.


As for Maven not after that last post. I didn't like the fact he came in bemoaning thread and took a shot at Ryker grandstand without continuing to some other line of thought to start his thread presence, but thought his Ryu and Fanny redirection was very good. I'd be willing to put him as townlean after seeing those last observations.

I don't think Maven's shot at Ryker was really meant to start a pressure chain, but rather to just make a statement about something he dislikes (alpha playstyles).

Honestly I think the entirety of J's play up to this point is garbage thus far and I hate his stance towards D1 but it reads par for the course with that stance towards D1. He's put feelers out towards other slots and isn't digging too hard because he doesn't wanna overextend. I'd love to policy lynch him every game we're in until he quits this bull**** but we didn't nip that in the bud with marshy so we've got a precedent towards letting players do anti-town things and get away with it consistently.

A better question to ask you then perhaps: If J were scum, what would you expect out of him?

This is my problem with Ryu's questioning. He says he wants us to let him continue to feel Spak out, but then he doesn't ask any questions the rest of the time he's on, even when he's talking to Spak he just gives some joke reference to some game (i think?) post. Then later he comes in and posts, but the whole "let me question him" is odd to be because he's barely doing that. He is also voting the guy but says he wants to feel him out before he puts him in one side or another.


He's also brought up my RVS post as being bad, but when I pointed out he did the same thing more times then I did, he admitted he did but still insisted his point stands. How does his point stand if it would logically make his slot scummier then mine? I'm not sure if it's scum intent or not, I'm not voting him off any of this yet, but it's weird and stands out to me. On the other hand I'd have expected scumRyu to push Spak much harder then he has, hence why there's no vote. I still want attention called to this.

Just want to state that I don't think scum with half a brain would push Spak after Laundry was done doing so. I don't recall at what point it happened exactly but I'm pretty sure I remember sensing the pressure fading off of Spak until eventually it became popular consensus that he was town.

369 and 370 feel filler. However, the post WoTT quoted (Spak's extremely convoluted explanation) does perhaps give me a seed of doubt. He's still a scum read right now, but I don't think I'm going to get anywhere with him right now.

I'm still on him because no one's convinced me he's town. The main reason you all changed your read of him was because of his confessions, which I, personally, don't find persuasive. They're definitely plausible, I'm not denying that, but i don't think it's likely.

I agree that Laundry seems town. See Gheb's reasoning.

I'm willing to lynch Watt atm. He doesn't seem especially sus other than his original weak push, but he hasn't adequately explained it. Just a slight lean right now though.

I've asked you a question earlier which I still want you to respond to btw.

Interesting. You thinking what I'm thinking? I actually do have a slight town read on Spak right now, but reading through some of Spak's posts have set off some flags (wrt "fakeness"). Care to elaborate? We can both bounce ideas off of each other and be super buddy buddy with each other. It'll be nice.

You're kind of off doing your own thing right now Rosa. Tell me, if you're truly suspicious of Spak then how do you plan on going about to get him lynched? It seems most people are town reading him right now. How are you going to change that?

To me, it feels like an explanation that fits. I've tried things similar to him before, and worked along similar trains of thoughts, and I've never ever actually said what he said, as it was obviously anti-town and perhaps a bit scummy. But now, as I write this, I'm thinking perhaps I've been wrong this entire time. Maybe in all those games I should have just done what Spak just did... ****, I need time to think this through.

Let me know how that goes.

I don't think lynching someone this early in the day would be very advantageous to the town; time is the Town's friend and the Mafia's enemy.

Are we sure this guy is town? Soooo much filler.

Unreadable. That's the crux of the issue with J. He's not making moves, he's just hanging in the background posting prods here and there.

Maaaaaaaan, I thought we were the "hardbody" crew, not the "let null reads slide because of meta reasons" crew. =(

---

So that's actually it, and for as long as it took I don't think I've learned too much of anything new.

I'm less sure on J now. I'm not thick headed, if everyone tells me that J doesn't play Day 1 then I'll begrudgingly give him a pass for a lack of content. I still hold that what content he has made seems forced, attempted attack on Maven especially. It's one thing to not want to overextend, it's another to actually try to attack one for the reasons he did. Furthermore J has yet to explain why he did what he did, instead just stubbornly defending his lack of content.* HOWEVER I agree with WL that Maven's Ryker push was premature and his later jump onto J seemed week. I liked Maven previously but some of his recent actions have worried me and I'll be lying if I said that I was fully comfortable being on the same wagon with him. Still though my vote will sit here until J returns, as I don't know of a better place to put it atm.

I have formed an opinion on Fandangox however some people have actually started to mount a bit of an offense on him, and I want to play the J card and see how that goes before dirtying the waters. I don't want to interfere with anyone else's pressure.

Rosa has been a very low impact player so far this game and seems to have been playing it somewhat safe. I could easily see him as scum.

I can see the reasoning behind the RR case but I really need to read him over again to determine rather I actually think he's scum or just making weak plays.

WATT is another player that I REALLY need to read over again because I've honestly have failed to check the whole 180 and thus have failed to form an opinion about it. Don't worry guys, I'll get to it I swear!

Kantrip's entrance was indeed good.

*While I did call the way J defended himself "stubborn" I just want to clarify that despite my negative description of his actions I don't actually think it's a scummy defense, more so just an anti-town defense.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Oh, and Spak. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse and I don't plan to push him but are we ABSOLUTELY sure that he's town guys? I totally understand that brute honesty that went into his defense but right after that was done he's existed in complete "Look, I'm helping!" mode.

Please, just someone reassure me that this is just a normal thing for newbie town's to do and that it has no malicious motive behind it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't think J is scum because I don't think his play is for sure scum knowing how he plays, Ryker playing not play the game isn't? I've seen him flip far more doing that than the reverse for J.

Kantrip is back, cool I guess?

Dancer seems to understand why I questioned Spak and why I am not giving a for sure town free pass. I don't think he is likely scum right now but I do want to see him contribute more than what he is.

@ #HBC | Laundry what is up with you? I have no clear direction which is exactly why I have not been committing nor pushing hard?

I have no real scum reads right now, the best from what I have read up is narrow down via PoE if who I think is more likely town.

If so, I'd love to hear who and why. I don't have solid direction right now outside of trying to feel out one.

And no it's not a cop out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I guess I'll never understand that way of looking at things.

So you actually think there are scummy shades in J's play but choose to ignore them because "it's J". Yet if it were somewhere else you'd consider it scummy and actually pursue it? That kind of double standard is bad in more than one way because on the one hand there's a decent chance that you're just glossing over legitimately scummy play and brush it aside because "it's X" and on the other hand it can also give off the impression that you simply try to avoid taking a clear stance. You're not making it clear where you actually stand on that matter.

So let's make this clear - do you think his play is suspicious or not? If somebody else were to play the way he does, would you think it's worth pushing a slot for or not?

Aspects I can see it being scummy. The issue is if it's not a scum tell.

Raziek doesn't play until day 3, scummy yes but it's not a tell.

If J remains unhelpful and stuck there I would second guess and look there, but with what he has posted I can't really push it as being a scum tell.

The game is not lynch all players who do scummy/bad play. It's lynching scum, it sucks but that's how games roll. If J is scum what he has done so far to me is not a strict tell.

You can call it a double standard, but that is what meta is.

So in the end, if someone else played like that, without any meta knowledge, I would look in that direction more. As it stands, I would not with J.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh, and Spak. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse and I don't plan to push him but are we ABSOLUTELY sure that he's town guys? I totally understand that brute honesty that went into his defense but right after that was done he's existed in complete "Look, I'm helping!" mode.

Please, just someone reassure me that this is just a normal thing for newbie town's to do and that it has no malicious motive behind it.

Keep him with posting or attempting content. Best way to figure this out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

For the record, I ask questions as o read posts, I don't read everything then ask, that is why I reask questions in games at times.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No but it's anti-town and a very consistent play pattern for scum. Get your head out of your ***.

Congrats. Your self-serving style serves you best and the rest of the game horribly. You did it, J.

Because it sounds like you play on sites that either go too fast to notice you not playing or you play on garbage-tier websites; personally, I can't tell the difference.

No one's lynching you for not being "gung-ho". They want to lynch you because they're not doing ****ing anything, yet again. You quit the site the last time you got lynched for your arbitrary bull**** and you're facing a similar situation here. When are you gonna learn that it's not us but you who puts yourself into this situation every time? People don't like playing with a person who's actively avoiding getting his hands dirty. It's suspicious play at best and anti-town at worst. It's not town's fault for wanting your hide for playing like this.

I gotta agree with all of this though, pretty spot on.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Who are the others Ryu?

I don't think I've heard you take a stance on much yet besides generally agreed upon town leans.

Who are you looking at?

Ryker/Kantrip for the first one.

Narrowing that down/trying to figure that out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I mean that you dropped the "I'm pressuring him for a read" card like it absolves you of anything.


Mental Torture, Self-Destroyer,
Can't ignore the Paranoia

Uhh because I was? I asked him for his mindset in full in a single so o could piece it together better.

Yes I got paranoia, have you seen me in games with Swiss/Kuz and others who I can never pin down? Are you seriously saying this new for me in mafia games?

I get paranoid of being wrong in mafia games, and you should know this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Also, maybe it's just me, but has Ruy actually committed to anything this game?

His Spak read is mostly just for the sake of pressure:



And yet despite this, he has Spak as town all of a sudden in his #367

Meanwhile, he says this about J:


I dunno guys, do you think Ruy has actively pushed a slot all game? I certainly don't.

I haven't, best I have been doing is trying to find a slot that makes sense for me to be scum.

I looked at Spak first, then he explained himself and I backed off.

I am not sold on J scum right now.

If Wott is scum, I need to reread the past posts he made way earlier.

Only thing I have been able to do is narrow down where to look via town reads, because I don't have a direction nor have I seen anywhere with a tell. I'll look at it tomorrow, but you need to work with me rather than fight me.

I don't have solid direction right now and I am not afraid of saying that.

What do I even got else to look Maven's posts at Ryker? I don't think that has merit to be scum, questioning sure but not scum.

Rosa? At worst, I don't like the Spak tunneling. Dancer has a better explanation to me. Rosa I don't recall as much of this.

Gheb? I've seen nothing to hate him over if anything I like what he has posted.

Ryker? If he proud dodges the game I would lynch him.

Kantrip? Not enough there right now.

I don't see a true scum pick right now nor anything that sticks out as a tell.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I gotta get up early so bed now.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Any other scum reads aside from Spak and Watt?

not really. tbh, I wouldn't even call what I had on Watt as a scum read, more of just I wouldn't mind if he was lynched as much I would a random person.

I don't think Maven's shot at Ryker was really meant to start a pressure chain, but rather to just make a statement about something he dislikes (alpha playstyles).



A better question to ask you then perhaps: If J were scum, what would you expect out of him?



Just want to state that I don't think scum with half a brain would push Spak after Laundry was done doing so. I don't recall at what point it happened exactly but I'm pretty sure I remember sensing the pressure fading off of Spak until eventually it became popular consensus that he was town.



I've asked you a question earlier which I still want you to respond to btw.



You're kind of off doing your own thing right now Rosa. Tell me, if you're truly suspicious of Spak then how do you plan on going about to get him lynched? It seems most people are town reading him right now. How are you going to change that?



Let me know how that goes.



Are we sure this guy is town? Soooo much filler.



Maaaaaaaan, I thought we were the "hardbody" crew, not the "let null reads slide because of meta reasons" crew. =(

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So that's actually it, and for as long as it took I don't think I've learned too much of anything new.

I'm less sure on J now. I'm not thick headed, if everyone tells me that J doesn't play Day 1 then I'll begrudgingly give him a pass for a lack of content. I still hold that what content he has made seems forced, attempted attack on Maven especially. It's one thing to not want to overextend, it's another to actually try to attack one for the reasons he did. Furthermore J has yet to explain why he did what he did, instead just stubbornly defending his lack of content.* HOWEVER I agree with WL that Maven's Ryker push was premature and his later jump onto J seemed week. I liked Maven previously but some of his recent actions have worried me and I'll be lying if I said that I was fully comfortable being on the same wagon with him. Still though my vote will sit here until J returns, as I don't know of a better place to put it atm.

I have formed an opinion on Fandangox however some people have actually started to mount a bit of an offense on him, and I want to play the J card and see how that goes before dirtying the waters. I don't want to interfere with anyone else's pressure.

Rosa has been a very low impact player so far this game and seems to have been playing it somewhat safe. I could easily see him as scum.

I can see the reasoning behind the RR case but I really need to read him over again to determine rather I actually think he's scum or just making weak plays.

WATT is another player that I REALLY need to read over again because I've honestly have failed to check the whole 180 and thus have failed to form an opinion about it. Don't worry guys, I'll get to it I swear!

Kantrip's entrance was indeed good.

*While I did call the way J defended himself "stubborn" I just want to clarify that despite my negative description of his actions I don't actually think it's a scummy defense, more so just an anti-town defense.

I'm not actually too sure what question this is. Mind quoting it?
As for Spak, I'm not too sure anymore. He definitely seemed scum, and tbh his confession doesn't push too many of my buttons. But it is quite contrived, but it also feels like a get out of free card. So... he's still scum imo, but slightly weaker read now. But pretty much the same.
As for how I'm going to lynch him... I actually have no idea. I get that I'm supposed to ask questions, but I have no questions to ask him. Any I may have had have been answered, and we've reached an impasse I've no idea how to breach.

Clarification:

I've lost a lot of what I had on WoTT. A lot of that is due to how he turned into a vortex of complaints after receiving enough pressure that I can't be arsed to put much thought into what he's trying to say at the moment. All I had was that his weird turn on Spak felt very off and, while I still don't trust it, I have gained nothing else to push him on, save for maybe how quickly he got defensive over it. I wanna re-analyze the slot but that comes later.

Meanwhile Ruy has taken a very strong fascination in J this game for inexplicable reasons and, despite this, has had a very plodding approach to scumhunting, one that doesn't really get anywhere. He goes onto him but the entire time, when questioned by others, says it's purely for pressure because he wants to be sure he's right about Spak (despite most of his questions already being asked and the thread moving on from him). Why, then, does he leave him as a town lean and mostly abandon it? Where did the pressure go? What caused him to end up as a town lean? These things aren't answered yet this has been Ruy's biggest slot to pressure in a game where WoTT is ****ting all over the thread and others are responding to it. That's not even going into his strange obsession with J, the fact that he's had direct prods at me that he never did **** with, and a bunch of other promises of action with nary a result. I don't trust it, and I'd hang this slot over anyone right now.

J and Rosa can go into a dumpster fire for all I care. J will resolve himself as the game goes on but I hate his approach to D1 and he's well aware of that. Rosa's just a steaming pile of newbie that will take awhile to decipher as the game goes on, but I simply don't wanna deal with it.

I still think Maven's townie but his J push (and the precedent he set for it with the Ryker push) have me skeptical. I'm not sure why he's pushing there when he accurately pinned Ruy on a good point. He had a golden opportunity and left it alone (hell, gave Ruy a pass for it) in favor of pushing alpha Ryker and later ****lord J. I think if Ruy flips scum, this is the first read to drop.

I like Rake and Kantrip a lot this game. I shouldn't have to explain why.

Everyone else has left nary an impression on me.

How do you feel about the J wagon, specifically how it's gained traction.

I don't feel like I'm in a position to comment on this. If it weren't for everybody else's comments about his meta, I would say he's playing anti-town. He's essentially floating by but still generating 'content'. But... everyone says this is his normal play, it's his meta yada yada yada, and I have absolutely no experience with him. I can only take what the other's say at face value.

J's stance on Spak is the same conclusion I came to so +1 for that

Yes yes hi sorry

Could you show an example of Spak taking explanations others gave and using them as his own? From what I remember people were only asking questions and never really gave him reasoning to work with. I remember him coming up with his response on his own which is why I don't fault him for feeling like he had to come up with more than just "I didn't have any reason for picking Maven."

I think Spak's responses have been lacking and might be a tell if it was anything other then a random RVS vote so early in the game, there's nothing pro-scum about what he's done, and overall he comes off more like he gave a more serious answer to his joke in the belief people were insulting him so he had to overcompensate, and is now stuck. I don't think it's scummy and I'm more suspicious of certain people pushing him, mainly Fandango and Ryu



Can't tell based on my role, I'd assume the same as any other game

For those who don't know, Ryker is like a birthday boy. He's sitting in the circle with his paper Mcdonald's crown on demanded we cede every argument to him and let him be the only one who plays "cause it's his birthday". Push him back just as hard as he pushes you, no one cares and will actually like that you do so.

I'd like this elaborated a bit. What about 224-227 make Dancer seem town?

Oddly enough, it was the short posts that I liked the most. They seemed to pick on small details that a town mindset would focus on, and scums would ignore. It isn't particularly solid, but this earlier read has been reinforced, particularly by his push on me and his continuation on Spak.