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"Revival of DGames" Mafia

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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You and laundry both say this, is J's scumplay any different?
If there is no difference why is it a scum tell? Scum J is different to me and it becomes more apparent as the game goes on because lack of progress over the whole course.

If we singling out unhelpful, why J and not others? Raz does this same stuff til like day 3.

If it weren't for meta I would agree to push J to post more, here not so much I do not think it's a strict tell he is scum unless there is more to it than what has done so far.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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I realize some of this is true, but this wasn't J we were talking about I would be more open to this idea of him being scum.
I guess I'll never understand that way of looking at things.

So you actually think there are scummy shades in J's play but choose to ignore them because "it's J". Yet if it were somewhere else you'd consider it scummy and actually pursue it? That kind of double standard is bad in more than one way because on the one hand there's a decent chance that you're just glossing over legitimately scummy play and brush it aside because "it's X" and on the other hand it can also give off the impression that you simply try to avoid taking a clear stance. You're not making it clear where you actually stand on that matter.

So let's make this clear - do you think his play is suspicious or not? If somebody else were to play the way he does, would you think it's worth pushing a slot for or not?

:059:
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
Joined
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Laundry was important because he started vs. Spak and turned it into vs Watt. It was a perfect opportunity to get more insight on his slot and I felt what he was directing our way was worth rebuttal.

I don't believe I ever called spak a focus. I've been taking the opportunities to read him as they come since Orbo declined to, but so far that has been all: the way people have treated the interaction around him has been more interesting than he actually is.



I honestly feel angry because it seems like you either aren't reading or want any excuse to push at us. It feels made up. Once again I think the closest we've ever come to calling Spak interesting is the post I wrote him off as newb null in during the back and forth with Laundry:




So why are you making a big deal out of this?
I'm pressuring you for a reaction
:059:
Plus you being active isn't a bad thing
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
Joined
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Messages
3,897
369 and 370 feel filler. However, the post WoTT quoted (Spak's extremely convoluted explanation) does perhaps give me a seed of doubt. He's still a scum read right now, but I don't think I'm going to get anywhere with him right now.

I'm still on him because no one's convinced me he's town. The main reason you all changed your read of him was because of his confessions, which I, personally, don't find persuasive. They're definitely plausible, I'm not denying that, but i don't think it's likely.

I agree that Laundry seems town. See Gheb's reasoning.

I'm willing to lynch Watt atm. He doesn't seem especially sus other than his original weak push, but he hasn't adequately explained it. Just a slight lean right now though.
How do you feel about the J wagon, specifically how it's gained traction.

:059:
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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3,897
I'm ok with the J wagon but it will patter down eventually, as annoying as J's style is I really don't see any true clear signs to be worried about with him and I'd rather take it on faith and take him to D2 to see how it goes than lynch him cause he's annoying people.

Whoever asked how I feel about Laundry giving me the plus one all day, it's not really telling because nobody thinks I'm scum. He has no reason to jock ride me either because my WoTT wagon is second popular to J's, and he doesn't get anything out of it either. Laundry's a smart enough scum player to know buddying me would sooner get him lynched than ignored. I think Laundry's content has been pretty on point so far and I'm not seeing anything he's saying having scummy undertones, and his catch up phase earlier was pretty nice. If you really think Laundry's just riding in my wave to coast as scum I'd be at least open to hear it but I'd have alot of doubts about it.

Maven's post about Ryker I found to be boring and a null tell. The same I feel to maven's play overall so far. Really haven't been all too impressed or even felt like he's done anything of note. Might be telling because it's how i recall feeling when he was scum before but I feel like scum Maven would have stuck on Spak longer. Really dislike his logic for voting J and really dislike more his bloodlust for J. Pretty much everyone who's not Dancer on that wagon and especially Maven just seem like their along for the ride on J at least on my first go through.

Whoever asked me about Fandangox: He's done the safe thing which is town read me, but all those nulls seem forced to me, I know it's early but you've got to at least have a feel one way or another from my pov, even if it's just slight. I often associate being safe with being scummy but I honestly can't recall Fanny's playstyle, I think he's posted well and interacted but I want him to take more initiative to read into those nulls and make them town reads. It doesn't feel like he's going out of his way to interact with people or even pressure other people to get a better idea for them which just based on gut for me has me keeping an eye on him.

Don't exactly like WoTT getting frustrated over being pushed on minute points, especially because it's D1 and it's the process. My pressure is purely because I still don't like his actions and I'm still waiting for them to do something. Spak was dropped and now I can't even remember what they've done or said because they've been so background which, to be fair, I know Orbo's away alot but WoTT is alot more proactive and interactive as town and it just feels like WoTT's got this shell around them where they expect to coast or not provide and have people just be okay with it.

I also don't know why WOTT objectively can't see why I am pressureing them, but that on it's own is a null tell. I'd like to see WoTT do something and actually stick their neck out before I'll take my vote off

Roselina seems Ok ? Really don't know How to feel about the slot as the opinions seems very short and sweet. I'd really like to see the slot take a more agressive stance on the scum reads though, just saying : well I'm ok with J and WaTT and whatever else doesn't progress the game because their the only two wagons to happen.

Someone should tell me whether the slot is worth worrying about D1.

Fanny, what do you think \?

:059:
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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Apologies for 24+ hour absence, studying for final + tired from work + hearthstone. Will try to catch up tonight.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Jul 11, 2010
Messages
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Terrible rationale
How serious is this?
Not terrible rationelle, joking rationelle. I see that attempted humor isn't welcomed in a game, so my apologies (and I apologize for inevitably using it further throughout the game). I picked Maven because he's the only one I've played with before and I wanted to see him post some more to tell how different his content isis.

As for it being rationelle for him being scum, it's as much of a rationelle as you voting for Rake because he has the word "Jabroni" in his name.
Town lean Spak.
That was laundry not me
This doesn't alter Spak's point. If you're after Spak for something that Laundry also did it begs the question: Why aren't you after Laundry as well?
This is not the same as:


this.

The former is a random vote which is basically just thrown around as a joke. The latter is targeting a player you know to get a reaction. One of these statements sounds like bull**** as a result.

:186:
What did you think Spak was trying to do at the time of this post? To me it seems pretty clear that he wanted to join in on RVS but when he got heat for his vote not having logical reasoning he tried to compensate by justifying it to his aggressor.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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I was gonna act more on it, but my break ended in band camp, then I went over to a friend's house to watch Furious 7, then I got home around 11:30-ish. I had no time IRL to act on it before you guys started questioning me on it and I had to reveal what I tried to do.
Second guessing my town lean on Spak. He's backpedalling really hard to try to make it seem like his first vote meant something when it seemed to me like it was just for ****s and giggles. I don't understand why he would try so hard to force reasoning on a random vote unless he is scum and thought that the people questioning him had legitimate grounds to dislike him.
Cool. Mind telling me why you let Spak off the hook so easily last night? You're the one who started that line of questioning, not me, but you let him go with a response that didn't respond to anything he was actually talking about.

:186:
I like Laundry so far. His continued questioning of Spak after WATT dropped it was beneficial to reading Spak and his questions to WATT are legit as well.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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I've been drunk in thread before and I understand where WATT is coming from if he was truly drunk when jumping at Spak, but this post is holding me back from just forgetting about it:
Because i don't really get anything from running this further atm, at least not something i don't think i can get by watching maven get on him (which i assume he would since its a dig at maven and he usually comes around when his name is dropped like that)
I'm not sure how WATT can wake up sober and think he can't get anything more from Spak considering his questions actually managed to get Spak to talk about his motivations. Not only that, but Spak's answer had plenty to follow up on (and Laundry even took this opportunity) so it seems off that WATT is saying he can't get anything from running it further.

-Town lean on Gheb for having a similar thought process to me a few posts later

Forst off i don't think raz is playing
Second, i dunno. Waiting to see how kantrip comes in off of having ryker and gheb go at him. Maven posting would be nice
Hahahahahaha he didn't want to follow up on some tasty content from Spak but decided to sit on his hands until I came in to respond to a couple of RVS votes? Scum lean WATT.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Incredibly, I actually like Rake's entrance into the game.

But he seems to have gotten a Gheb role so he must be scum.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Not that I've seen. I've been too busy trying to amend for my early screw-ups. Also, I won't be able to gauge someone having a differing playstyle or different posting regularity than normal because like I've mentioned, I don't know what 11/13 of the people's "normal" is.
I'm really conflicted on Spak. I admire the attempt at honesty but I don't know why he felt the need to make his Maven vote seem more significant than it was. It was pretty clearly a random joke vote that when pushed on Spak decided to talk up as some big strategic move as if he was expected to be trying to get reads already. Reads as though he felt guilty for not having a better reason when people asked for it and fabricated one, but I actually think it makes him town.

Yeah I'm gonna go with town Spak.
 

Wots All This Then?

Smash Lord
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How serious is this?

Town lean Spak.

This doesn't alter Spak's point. If you're after Spak for something that Laundry also did it begs the question: Why aren't you after Laundry as well?

What did you think Spak was trying to do at the time of this post? To me it seems pretty clear that he wanted to join in on RVS but when he got heat for his vote not having logical reasoning he tried to compensate by justifying it to his aggressor.
Not very considering alcohol
I think i was saying that laundry did that and not me
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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The entire Spak push is very weak in why he's scum and you just sort of popped up and threw a vote on him while repeating information Laundry said almost verbatim. Ryu took it up and is pushing it now but I still find it a weird thing to do, gut instinct is scum intent behind it to keep the Spak push going. He's taking it more seriously then I feel Alex (do I get to call him that?) or anyone else that was questioning him was, Laundry I easily see the town intent behind, Ryu not so much
What made you think it was scum intent over misguided townies?
Answering your second question first: Because you told Ryker in the post I quoted that the best way to get you involved was to force you into questions/trials. It seems to imply that you want to be asked questions.

First question: Anything that comes to mind. Did you get a read off of it? Agree/disagree with anybody's stances that they took? Any thoughts on Spak's reasoning, his reactions, or Laundry's attack? I mention that interaction specifically because I feel that it's the most prevalent so far. Don't let it stop your Wot vs. Laundry investigation though.
Good questions from Dancer, I like his attempt to get J involved.
Why did you write this paragraph? It just looks like an attempt to knock Ryker down before he even really got into the game. I mean sure, we all know that Ryker is stubborn but this looks like a little too much of mudslinging/demeaning him for your benefit. Could you point out what you hoped to accomplish posting this?
Are you implying you think Maven is scum trying to knock down townRyker's credibility? If no, what do you think Maven's intent is in discrediting Ryker right out the gate?
 

Kantrip

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Re-quoting so I can finally re-answer. After looking back through things, I do disagree to the notion that Spak looks scummy. I am seeing if anything more of a town-lean. He seems to be new to this site in terms of how DGames crew rolls and got caught in his words. It looked like Laundry was trying to take it and move along with it to get out of RvS. Spaks' reasoning seemed calm and genuine which I wouldn't expect of new-er scum to have that much acting skills to convince me of.

So to sum it up, got a slight town lean on Spak and a null on Laundry. This is also probably why I did not comment on it much because I don't see scum-vibes from it yet.

Regarding your Kanty question, I'm never really down for inactive lynches D1 because they don't provide much intel for us to work off us. But he hasn't posted at all since the game started so @ BarDulL BarDulL what's the status with Kanty?
J's stance on Spak is the same conclusion I came to so +1 for that
Then taking matters into my own hands here. @ Kantrip Kantrip come in here and post some reads on people. Or let us know you are alive.
Yes yes hi sorry
Earlier, after i considered Spak a bit more, he actually turned town. I considered his circumstances and decided he was a town who tried a gambit that failed. But after his attempt to shift the spotlight onto Maven and the above post (especially the above post), I feel he's scum, or maybe indy. I don't think it's likely that he would just construct a story, playing a gambit on a gambit, to reason out his play rather than simply telling the truth. It just feels like he's taking the possible explanations others gave and using them for an easy way out. Also, his town lean on Maven feels like him supporting another because he supported him.

Vote remains on Spak. Legit now.
Vote: Destroy ring
Could you show an example of Spak taking explanations others gave and using them as his own? From what I remember people were only asking questions and never really gave him reasoning to work with. I remember him coming up with his response on his own which is why I don't fault him for feeling like he had to come up with more than just "I didn't have any reason for picking Maven."
 

Kantrip

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You're right Fandangox, I was confused and combined your post with Rosa's vote.



I don't find Ryu's posts to be legitimate, he's asking him questions that Spak has basically already answered, I don't see how Ryu's questions will lead to a better understanding of Spak then we have right now. I also, still, find the amount of Spak attention weird. I see why at first, but now I'm really looking to see whose piling on, because I still don't see the scum intent in anything he did. Ryu's posts seem to be faking activity and I'm suspicious that he's asking questions that have largely already been answered while voting the guy.

And I still want him to answer my question



Stop people from following any of the "alphas" based on name recognition, stop new players from thinking that's a smart strat, and to hopefully get something from Ryker in response to me telling people to not take him too seriously.
I like this post and I agree with Maven's distaste for Ryu repeating questions that have already been answered.
Scummy:
WoTT

Town:
Rake
Maven
Spak

Reads belong in my dumpsterfire:
Rosa

I get off work at 11. I'll be back around then.

:186:
Laundry's string of posts from #255 to #267 here are solid. I agree with the reads he's given and I like all the questions he asked and stances he gave. Laundry looking town this game.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Kantrip

Disappointment

:(

I have re-read and this is where I am at the moment.
Wots All This Then?
Gheb_01
Maven89
Kantrip
Spak
RosalinaSGS
Fandangox
Red Ryu
#HBC | Dancer
#HBC | Ryker
Rake the Macaroni JabronLaundry
#HBC | J

Town
Town Lean
Null
Scum Lean
Scum
Disappointment


Spak is null right now, because his answers seem honest, but his not so random vote on Maven is contradictory on his rasoning, and him trying to divert attention from him to Maven after he got pressured are the main issues with my read on him.

After re-reading I can get Maven's issues with Ryu, but I don't think its a scum-tell for Ryu, it just seems like a weak push to me on Ryu's part.

Rake is leaning town in my eyes, his posts have scumhinting intent behind them, he's been following up his questions, and is pushing the game forward. Also upon re-reading I don't like how WATT's pressure on Spak was about what at that point seemed like an obvious joke post, specially after he said it was (but before he gave his more complex response) Rake may be onto something as the only other person that pointed out that vote was Laundry, but Laundry pressured further after Spak elaborated on his vote, while WATT baked down, I still don't think WATT and Laundry's interactions are forced, but they were the only two to call attention to Spak's vote before Spak contradicted himself with his explanations.

J has been posting a lot of nothing after game got out of RVP, on his #126 he asks Rosalina a question, but doesn't follow up on it after Rosa answers.

On his #179 he asks Ryu a question about his Laundry read. Ryu answers in his #185, but J once again ignores it and doesn't reply.

His #233 question to Maven seems kind of pointless and just trying to generate content.

He proceeds to Prod Kantrip after that.

On his #155 He admits to Ryker he doesn't get active unless he gets asked questions, but the fact that all of his post-RVS posts are questions that he never followed up, prodding, and a pointless question makes me have a scum lean read on J.

Also @ #HBC | Laundry #HBC | Laundry please elaborate on you previous reads.
Fanny's reasoning on Spak is fair. I like that he acknowledges the honesty of Spak's responses.

His stance on Ryu is alright as well, although I think he's giving Ryu too much of a pass for asking questions that have already been answered while making his push.

His J stance is weak though, and basically boils down to "J is scum because he hasn't done very much" followed by a brief synopsis of what J has posted. J distances himself from the game for D1 in particular and I have definitely pushed him for it in the past, but I almost feel like this game he's given more than he usually does, if anything.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Expending on two thoughts of interest: Spak and J.

J is currently leaning scum to me as a feel he's maintained a presence without actually doing too much of anything. The three main points of concern is his weird attack on Maven, the "event votecount" he kept, and just a lack of original content. Already went over Maven. The "event votecount" thing isn't scummy by itself but coupled with a lack of original content it reads more like filler than genuine usefulness. I just feel like if J was town he would be more interested in that WoT vs. WL thing then he seems right now.

BTW J's stance on Spak is not original content. It's a purely logical stance that one could have arrived at as either alignment so it's not telling either way.

Spak is a conundrum to me as I feel like he's done a lot of things I don't imagine newbie scum would do but if he was anyone else I would lynch him in a heartbeat. Regardless of his alignment I'm convinced that he has worded his posts to deliberately garner symphony which raises a red flag with me. HOWEVER I've seen newb town do this as well as newb scum so I can't call it either way. Also again what newbie scum ADMITS to things like "trying to lay low" and "trying to redirect attention." If he's scum then he's a master manipulator so props to him for that but that seems unlikely.

Actually writing this post has made me feel slightly better about him. He can go up to a town lean.

Also for the recorded I have yet to form an opinion on WoT, which is a thing now I suppose.
Just quoting this post because I like it and the fact that Dancer is giving solid reasoning.

I agree on finding J's question to Maven really strange but I think the other points are more of a non-issue and fit with my image of J being around but kind of actively coasting his way through D1 before jumping in with stances and pushes when paper trails are more solid Day 2 onward. If his behaviour continued past D1 I would start to look at him more.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Because no one would have bought that so i tryed to explain what was going through my mind at the time
WATT's actions while drunk weren't as much of an issue to me as the fact that he got heat for them and then when sober decided to completely dissociate himself from them rather than try to approach the situation with a clear state of mind.

It read to me as scum who wanted to shove his mistake into the closet for everyone to forget about and start "fresh" rather than using it for his benefit and following it up once he sobered (which is what I would expect from town).

Saying that he didn't think anyone would believe him if he just said "I was drunk disregard what I said" makes no sense. Trying instead to continue justifying his drunk mindset after the fact makes even less.
but what alignment does that make him?
hey this looks off
Hey this is explanation
Drunk me-seems legit
Again, this doesn't address the problem of him completely dropping his conversation with Spak once he sobered up and realized how bad his reasoning was initially.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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I don't know what to tell you if you don't understand why it would have been much better to just plain admit that you were drunk than to pretend that you actually had a reason to push Spak. At this point you're just pushing the old scum-or-dumb dilemma on pupose imo.

:059:
Gheb sums up my issue more eloquently.

WATT seems to feel as though lying and fabricating explanations for his state would help him out more than just admitting that his reasoning when drunk was trash and that we should disregard it. It just doesn't make sense.
 

Wots All This Then?

Smash Lord
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How many times do i need to say i thought itd be better to try and explain what mindset i did have rather than claim drunk shenanigans. Even if i was drunk i should still take responsibility for then
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Not very considering alcohol
I think i was saying that laundry did that and not me
Yeah, and?

Why is Laundry allowed to vote Rake for having "jabroni" in his name but Spak isn't allowed to vote for Maven for being impatient about his role PM? How can drunk you take the latter painfully seriously while recognizing the former as RVS?
 

Kantrip

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So you're telling me that in your state you thought Spak was honestly pushing for Maven to be wagoned? And then when he said it was a joke you felt content to back off?

Then why didn't you care at all when he added all his other reasoning that contradicted his answer to you? It feels like you just took what he said and once you sobered up didn't care to reflect on your interaction at all.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
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By the way, props to Kantrip for catching up on 11 pages of content.
 

Wots All This Then?

Smash Lord
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So you're telling me that in your state you thought Spak was honestly pushing for Maven to be wagoned? And then when he said it was a joke you felt content to back off?

Then why didn't you care at all when he added all his other reasoning that contradicted his answer to you? It feels like you just took what he said and once you sobered up didn't care to reflect on your interaction at all.
Yes
Because he still said it was a joke and he basically tried to do what i did and elaborate after the fact which i cant exactly blame him for now can i?
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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My issue is that you didn't think you could get anything out of Spak once you sobered up even though Laundry was doing exactly that in your stead. I'm not concerned with anything you did or said while you were drunk, and I'm starting to think you were just being bone-headed by trying to explain it away for so long instead of just dropping that part of things.

That still doesn't explain why you didn't think the interaction could yield anything upon looking back at it. Why didn't you at least try to get something out of it? It doesn't look like you were ever trying to read Spak at all. You just called him scum and then retracted it while drunk and said "well, I guess that's the end of that."
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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Incredibly, I actually like Rake's entrance into the game.

But he seems to have gotten a Gheb role so he must be scum.
why did you like it ?

Also shhhhh. I'm being subtle. The armchair critique and salt are my d2 restriction

:059:
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
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but is he townie for it. or does it just make him a null with a "hope to see more " beside his name
:059:
I don't think catching up on the game that you were away from for a while isn't pro-scum nor pro-town, and a majority of what he has said throughout his posts are just commenting on events throughout the game thus far. For me, taking the time to analyze what has happened before is something that both a good townie and a good scum would do so that they could either be informed on the state of matters and know who to pressure, so he's null with a "hope to see more" beside his name until I see more of his postings.
 

#HBC | Laundry

Grand Sage of Swag
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So I am watching BB while I am responding to things but I am gonna do a little PSA.

My not doing things D1 =/= scummy.
No but it's anti-town and a very consistent play pattern for scum. Get your head out of your ass.

I mean, you are welcome to your opinion on how to play the game, but that does not mean you have the right "nip it in the bud" especially considering how long I have been playing this game, I know which playstyle works best for me.
Congrats. Your self-serving style serves you best and the rest of the game horribly. You did it, J.

Ironically, this is the only site that seems to persist that there is a problem.
Because it sounds like you play on sites that either go too fast to notice you not playing or you play on garbage-tier websites; personally, I can't tell the difference.

If I am lynched for not being "gung-ho" D1, then I have no qualms. But I am not yet, so I am gonna continue to play haha.
No one's lynching you for not being "gung-ho". They want to lynch you because they're not doing ****ing anything, yet again. You quit the site the last time you got lynched for your arbitrary bull**** and you're facing a similar situation here. When are you gonna learn that it's not us but you who puts yourself into this situation every time? People don't like playing with a person who's actively avoiding getting his hands dirty. It's suspicious play at best and anti-town at worst. It's not town's fault for wanting your hide for playing like this.


:186:
 
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