Really good Dthrow option

[Hylian]

I was showing Shugo this at Revenge and have been doing this for awhile with great success. Everyone knows about Bdacus out of Dthrow and it almost never works because it can either be DI'ed or airdodged very easily. Now, you generally have to guess if they are going to DI or not before you bdacus and if they don't DI they can still just airdodge and punish you before you are out of lag.

So what I've been doing is dthrow -> dash forward and shield. A lot of people do this part. After that you can see if they DI up and punish accordingly, but if they don't DI up and airdodge to counter a bdacus you can bdacus out of shield from this position and it will catch them out of their airdodge. At some %'s you can also roll forward and basically be behind them for another grab or whatever else as well. Running forward and dacusing works as well but it's not quite as fast.

So basically just dash forward and shield after a dthrow(unless you jab them obviously) and then you can react to any way they DI and punish at most %'s using bdacus out of shield. This doesn't always work but I find it works very often on really good players and lets you react to their options rather than guessing.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I can confirm this is a great option. Ive been using this with my Falco for quite some time and it gives me a lot more options for punishment. By now, most people at high percents know to just DI up to avoid BDACUS kills as Hylian stated.

The best part is if they use an attack and you powershield (I'm notorious for this)...oh the possibilities. D-Throw too good.

Granted, I wouldn't do this like EVERY time but its a lot more profitable than just throwing to just throw out BDACUS immediately from D-Throw. By now we should be able to do it from just about any situation anyway (imho)

 

[teluoborg]

Or, you can simply wait and do a simple/charged Dacus if they miss their DI.
I mean what are the advantages of the shield when the opponent is sent flying that far ?

 

[Exceladon City]

Or, you can simply wait and do a simple/charged Dacus if they miss their DI.
I mean what are the advantages of the shield when the opponent is sent flying that far ?

you can bdacus out of shield

I dunno, you tell me.

It not like you're losing anything from shielding in an already advantageous position. You're just setting up a potential option and you still have the ability to jump out of shield for aerial pressure.

 

[Hylian]

Or, you can simply wait and do a simple/charged Dacus if they miss their DI.
I mean what are the advantages of the shield when the opponent is sent flying that far ?

Bdacus will generally go further than a normal dacus and is faster so you can hit them at higher %'s. There is no reason not to do SDBC, I think it's easier than normal dacus lol.

 

[-DR3W-]

This is the part where every last Falco starts doing it over and over and over and over and over.

 

[MARLX]

This is great now I can get that kill I want without any issues.

 

[Player-1]

I've been messing around with Diddy's bdacus for a while now and I may be wrong on this, but it seems Diddy's bdacus timing is harder? If so then it wouldn't apply for you guys as much, but I've been practicing trying to bdacus out of a shield drop and it insanely difficult, I've been practicing it for a while and I can only get it in 2/3rds speeds really (only a couple times out of full speed). Shield drop is like 7 frames, so if you're frame perfect you have 7 frames to input 3 buttons which seems pretty difficult. I think diddy's bdacus might have 2 different lengths depending on the timing a short one and a long one so since the short one is pretty useless and you want to try to get a long one I'm guessing for diddy it's like a 5 frame window or something for the inputs which is why it may be harder for diddy, but this is all just speculation from my experience with bdacus.

 

[Hylian]

I've been messing around with Diddy's bdacus for a while now and I may be wrong on this, but it seems Diddy's bdacus timing is harder? If so then it wouldn't apply for you guys as much, but I've been practicing trying to bdacus out of a shield drop and it insanely difficult, I've been practicing it for a while and I can only get it in 2/3rds speeds really (only a couple times out of full speed). Shield drop is like 7 frames, so if you're frame perfect you have 7 frames to input 3 buttons which seems pretty difficult. I think diddy's bdacus might have 2 different lengths depending on the timing a short one and a long one so since the short one is pretty useless and you want to try to get a long one I'm guessing for diddy it's like a 5 frame window or something for the inputs which is why it may be harder for diddy, but this is all just speculation from my experience with bdacus.

I think it's easier because you have to do it so fast. You don't have to time it you just mash all the buttons at once after you let go of shield lol. I can do it very very consistently and know several others who can as well. People need to practice more cause I don't practice at all and can do it lol.

 

[Player-1]

Maybe I just suck at mashing =/, idk, can you try it with diddy and see if it seems any different?

 

[Hylian]

Maybe I just suck at mashing =/, idk, can you try it with diddy and see if it seems any different?

I have, I can do it with all characters that bdacus. I SD bdacus with shiek a lot etc.

 

[Bloodcross]

I can barely bdacus at all

So I just walk and dacus instead lol

 

[teluoborg]

Bdacus is the same timing for every character yeah, what's different is the lenght of their spotdodge (if you're training with spotdodge > bdacus).

 

[Hylian]

We are talking about shield drop bdacus not spotdodge.

 

[clowsui]

so hard to sd bdacus >_>;;

 

[Judo777]

BDACUS out of shield is pretty freaking hard tho lol. It's what? a 9 frame window for 3 inputs? (at least for Sheik) As opposed to an ordinary BDACUS which is around a 12 window which you don't have to start frame perfectly because spotdodge has 22 frames of lag to allow yourself time to prepare.

I been doing regular charged DACUS for forever tho (with Falco and actually Sheik too lol out of fthrow).

 

[Player-1]

you have a 10 frame window to input 3 inputs with anything 10 frames + (since that's brawl's buffer window). I think every character's shield drop is 7 frames, but i may be wrong on this one so you have 7 frame window for 3 inputs plus shield drops give you very little time to prepare since if you mess up and do your dash input too early you get a roll.

My main problem with bdacusing OoS right now is that I can easily get a buffered dash attack, but I guess my thumb is too slow or something and I can't get the 2nd hit on the c stick up fast enough so I usually always get buffered dash attacks.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

People find this hard? (not being sarcastic) I always BDACUS out of like...everything fairly straight forward and easy to perform personally. I honestly don't feel like its as hard as a lot of people say it is <_< None of Falco's tech skill stuff is lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Who here claims it is easy/doing it forever has many years prior experience playing melee. I sort of want to see if there might be a correlation there.

Being on topic is so difficult to do these days In general, leading forward with a dash after Dthrow is probably the best thing Falco can do after a dthrow. If someone DI's Up, Falco can cover the option with his jump height. If they DI away, you can keep running forward to follow up and pressure them into doing something. Anything in between simply gives Falco better positioning at worst.

Going straight into something like lasering doesn't really profit off the situation too much.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Who here claims it is easy/doing it forever has many years prior experience playing melee. I sort of want to see if there might be a correlation there.

Nah man, my tech skill in Brawl was just complete garbage until one day I just had a realization. It was weird. And then after that my fingers were able to just do everything I wanted them to do with Falco/ICs any every other character. Just woke up one day and decided I could be technical...lmao.

 

[Hylian]

you have a 10 frame window to input 3 inputs with anything 10 frames + (since that's brawl's buffer window). I think every character's shield drop is 7 frames, but i may be wrong on this one so you have 7 frame window for 3 inputs plus shield drops give you very little time to prepare since if you mess up and do your dash input too early you get a roll.

My main problem with bdacusing OoS right now is that I can easily get a buffered dash attack, but I guess my thumb is too slow or something and I can't get the 2nd hit on the c stick up fast enough so I usually always get buffered dash attacks.

Try dropping you shield and then hitting up on the control stick and down on the cstick at the same time, then flick the cstick up. I use double up for bdacus out of other things but down up is much easier for shield drop.


Also, i played melee since 03 and was very technical so maybe its just easy for me lol.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I never thought about this, but multiple jump-shines should be made really easy with brawl's ability to change inputs. No longer having to go between B to jump button in 3 frames with fox. Just alternate pressing two buttons like A and Z. I'll have to try that later on P:M. Anyway, lol at gaining tech skill seemingly out of no where.

 

[Player-1]

Try dropping you shield and then hitting up on the control stick and down on the cstick at the same time, then flick the cstick up. I use double up for bdacus out of other things but down up is much easier for shield drop.


Also, i played melee since 03 and was very technical so maybe its just easy for me lol.

up on my control stick? Where's the dash input?

 

[Hylian]

up on my control stick? Where's the dash input?

Buffering up on control stick and down on cstick at the same time with buffer a dash. Much easier than pressing forward.

 

[Judo777]

you have a 10 frame window to input 3 inputs with anything 10 frames + (since that's brawl's buffer window). I think every character's shield drop is 7 frames, but i may be wrong on this one so you have 7 frame window for 3 inputs plus shield drops give you very little time to prepare since if you mess up and do your dash input too early you get a roll.

My main problem with bdacusing OoS right now is that I can easily get a buffered dash attack, but I guess my thumb is too slow or something and I can't get the 2nd hit on the c stick up fast enough so I usually always get buffered dash attacks.

Don't quote me on this, but I am fairly certain that the way BDACUS works is a few frames outside of the buffer window. I was already aware of the 10 frame buffer window and the 7 frame shield drop do I was adding 2 frames to it. Because Sheik has a 2 frame window after the DA to input the usmash.

Again I'm not positive but I THINK the way BDACUS works (or at least can work) is that the DA is buffered, and the Usmash is not (necessarily) buffered. I don't think you can buffer more than 1 input with the same button in the buffer window (meaning the DA AND the usmash since the game requires the A input for both, regardless of if your using the cstick or not). So you lag and buffer the DA during buffer frames then 2 frames (or however big) after you do the Usmash input. Because the DA was buffered so is the whole maneuver.

If I'm wrong then fix my numbers but I think what I said is right (or at least it would make sense to me).

 

[Player-1]

Buffering up on control stick and down on cstick at the same time with buffer a dash. Much easier than pressing forward.

still kinda confused on what you mean...? What does the up on the control stick do?

Don't quote me on this, but I am fairly certain that the way BDACUS works is a few frames outside of the buffer window. I was already aware of the 10 frame buffer window and the 7 frame shield drop do I was adding 2 frames to it. Because Sheik has a 2 frame window after the DA to input the usmash.

Again I'm not positive but I THINK the way BDACUS works (or at least can work) is that the DA is buffered, and the Usmash is not (necessarily) buffered. I don't think you can buffer more than 1 input with the same button in the buffer window (meaning the DA AND the usmash since the game requires the A input for both, regardless of if your using the cstick or not). So you lag and buffer the DA during buffer frames then 2 frames (or however big) after you do the Usmash input. Because the DA was buffered so is the whole maneuver.

If I'm wrong then fix my numbers but I think what I said is right (or at least it would make sense to me).

if it's a 10 frame window for the dash attack then a 2 frame window for the upsmash then that's 2 different windows to do it in meaning it's not 12 frame window it's a 10 frame window then a 2 frame window, if i'm following your right.

 

[Hylian]

Just tested it and I was wrong lol. I'm pressing forward not up. Forward, cstick down, cstick up

 

[Player-1]

yeah, I've tried doing that a couple of times, but gave up soon after it felt awkward to me, but if it works for you better than I might try it again. I remember when bdacus was first discovered and stuff I was messing with c stick up > control stick up + A and it worked REALLY well for me, like I wasn't bdacusing at all before and I got it that way perfectly like 9 times in a row, but then I went to bed and my fingers became stupid and I wasn't able to do it well after that

 

[Hylian]

Try pressing forward and cstick down at the exact same time, and then just flick the cstick up. The hardest part for me is not rolling lol.

 

[Judo777]

still kinda confused on what you mean...? What does the up on the control stick do?



if it's a 10 frame window for the dash attack then a 2 frame window for the upsmash then that's 2 different windows to do it in meaning it's not 12 frame window it's a 10 frame window then a 2 frame window, if i'm following your right.

Yea I think your right. That's basically what I meant tho. 2 windows still means you don't have to press buttons quite as fast just a little more precise (which I find easier).

 

[zmx]

While we`re on the topic can anyone confirm they can do a bdacus consistently with a classic controller?

I have only done it a few times thus far out of a spot dodge which is supposed to be the easiest. The others I can`t do at all.

The SDBD seems insanely useful but also seems you need lightening fast fingers to do it. I wasn`t even aware there was enough lag out of a shield drop to do it.

 

[XEELT]

Time to learn how to Bdacus out of shield!

 

[Haze~]

falco ditto: opponent sh lazer hits ur shield u drop and bdacus and he dies

 

[Hylian]

Another thing I'd like to mention, you can bdacus OoS a lot of peoples moves. So if someone hits your shield with something you can just bdacus them lol.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I was playing around with this some more when I had a friend come over to play.

Its just so good lol

Like...even just dashing forward and waiting for their response is good enough because you just BDACUS from an empty dash. Like I land BDACUS WAYYYYYYYYY more by just waiting for a response or just shielding and then reacting from there. Like I was averaging two stocks a match from just using this alone. Either way Down Throw just puts the opponent in a horrible position at any percent. I tend to go for other stuff at mid percents past chaingrabbing because I want to keep Up-Smash fresh though.

As far as BDACUS OOS as a straight up punish..I need to play around with it more. I could see that being pretty useful though. I swear though once you allow your fingers to get to where you mind with this character...you just have so many ridiculous options. <3

 

[Hylian]

Yeah, it's really REALLY good. Especially since people don't know about it right now, but the best part is that even when it becomes popular it's still really really hard to counter because you are covering almost all of their options through a large amount of %'s.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Hylian, do you use this option at mid percents a lot? I tend to use Dash > Shield Drop > BDACUS at kill percents generally. I have played around with this at mid percents a little but it seems more useful around mid-high to kill percents. At mid percents, I'm a bit more aggressive in my "aerial tech chasing" because I feel very comfortable doing it with Falco so I'll play around Dash > Shield.

The best part is that I am REALLY good at Powershielding so it gives me more options from situations like that. lol just PSing in general is really good as Falco.

Oh saying this again for emphasis:

You guys REALLLLLY need to learn this. Hylian is not exaggerating how **** this option is. It increases your chances of killing with BDACUS by a serious margin...lol

 

[Hylian]

At mid %'s I like to jab them after the dthrow depending on the character, or just dash after them and either dash attack or roll behind depending on what they do. If you throw them at mid %'s and dash into shield, and then roll forward you will end up right behind them and it's very useful lol. I found this out by messing up my bdacus heh.

I dunno just mix up what you do at mid %s, lots of things work.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Hmm roll behind. Didn't really consider that one too much. I'll have to play around.


I also Jab after the Down-Throw a lot at mid percents as well. Free safe damage <3

 

[Zwei Striker]

I played with this around all day with several friends and it's plain amazing. It helps so much with the kills and at mid % I just dashed towards them, shielded and they would either airdodge or try to attack me. Both of them ended in another grab. Just awesome.