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Reaching the Pantheon: An Analysis of Ascending to the Next Level

ElfenLiedPeach

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
217
Location
in the place i've been wishing to be
I always enjoy reading threads like this one, and you've made a few of them King. Great work on this, I can trace my way through the progression levels with relative ease, and now i've got more direction on how I should be analyzing my own personal game during and after fights.
I'd +rep you, but...yeah...

Anyway. Awesome post, King! I'd like to read that other article that you said you were working on too, hopefully it turns out as good as this one.
 

Eggz

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
8,277
Location
Combo Status Island
Good stuff, I'm glad people are enjoying the article. It was a blast to write, and reminded me of a lot of stuff I'd forgotten about or neglected. Sometimes you learn the most whilst teaching.

And to address the question above about Fox's dashdancing, Delphiki pretty much hit the answer head on. Few people play the game on a solely-reactionary basis, and even fewer are successful in doing so. With knowing the matchups and character dynamics, you can eliminate some of the need for pure reaction speed. Because when you know the options and tricks a particular character has, you can get a general idea of which moves might be coming at any given time. Fox dashdancing is a great example and very effective due to the fact that fox is always on the move, can change direction any time it wishes, and is being neither offensive nor defensive, but merely strategic. It is the fear that fox can do anything out of it's dashdance (grab, upsmash, Nair, Dair, dash attack, shield, run away, etc.), as well as efficiently space themselves from an incoming attack, that make it a difficult tactic to counter.

There was going to be another section, another phase so to speak, that I wanted to add to the end of this. But once I starting writing it, I found that it would have pretty much doubled the size of the article. It's the concept of reading someone's "Pace", the talent to quickly get a feel for your opponent's level of skill, technical aspects, mindgames, movements, and patterns. It's why the best players can sit down with someone they've never played and still destroy them, even if they imploy a tactic or style of play the pro had never seen before. I'll put this out eventually, I just don't know where.

Again, thanks for the support thus far. =D

King Out
When can we expect the next section?

This has given me alot of insight toward improvement. I've been in a creative rut. I think reading this over a few times will help me...well...win. XD

I especially liked your writing skills. You are WAY too good. Please come to WA and have my babies.
 

Shellshock821

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
198
Location
Durham, North Carolina
King, from the bottom of my heart I really want to thank you for this topic. As corny as it sounds I think it's one of those things that I always knew were right but I really needed to see it right there in front of me to truly believe it. With this topic as my witness I'm going to get some real confidence in myself (and truly practice and develop) and make it happen. Thank you man, this topic helped me more than you'll ever know.:(
 

starvingartist

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
74
Location
Boston MA
I know first hand the mistake of getting emotional while playing smash. It's hard not to. And it cost me a lot of games I should have won. Good stuff to think about here.
 

Excel_Zero

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
1,201
Location
Puerto Rico
Nice read! I really liked it a lot. I will try to use this information to get more confidence in me, because that is what I lack.
 

JustOwninDaFINALBOSS

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
26
Just OWNproves of this post. Just like it is written in the book of OWNAGE

"It is the brave that defeat the cowerdice, the fearless that defeat the brave, and the flawless that defeat that fearless. Who is it he then who defetas the flawless? Our lord, JustOwnin." BOOK OF OWNAGE - OWNed Chapter OWNed verse.

It seemes that regardless of what community I go too theirs always the one with both the lexicon and understanding of the game to put to words what most top players take for granted. Excellent work KING.
 

dark_dragon8

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Messages
999
Location
Vancouver B.C. Canada
Good post. I did a lot of this without realize it, and all of the steps MUST be taken over and over again to improve. I also noticed that doing what works IS the the best way. Just your way of learning and understanding the game is all the difference I find.
 

Raistlin

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
1,215
Great essay, like everyone's been saying. I feel like it'll help me out too, if I just try and remember it while I'm playing. And I hope gimpyfish is wrong about you dropping Jiggs, 'cuz she owns.
 

Ryuuseiken Marth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
125
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperilled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle.

What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease.

The more you read and learn, the less your adversary will know.

What is essential in war is victory, not prolonged operations.

To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness.
Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.

The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities... It is best to win without fighting.

A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.

All warfare is based on deception.

For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.

He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.

He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious.
Management of many is the same as management of few. It is a matter of organization.

When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of its momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing.

Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

If our soldiers are not overburdened with money, it is not because they have a distaste for riches; if their lives are not unduly long, it is not because they are disinclined to longevity.

Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time.

It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used.

Now the reason the enlightened prince and the wise general conquer the enemy whenever they move and their achievements surpass those of ordinary men is foreknowledge.

O divine art of subtlety and secrecy! Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible and hence we can hold the enemy's fate in our hands.

Of all those in the army close to the commander none is more intimate than the secret agent; of all rewards none more liberal than those given to secret agents; of all matters none is more confidential than those relating to secret operations.

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.

Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.

Secret operations are essential in war; upon them the army relies to make its every move.

Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.

The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand.

The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.

The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim.

The ultimate in disposing one's troops is to be without ascertainable shape. Then the most penetrating spies cannot pry in nor can the wise lay plans against you.

There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.

Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy.

And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him.

When the enemy is at ease, be able to weary him; when well fed, to starve him; when at rest, to make him move. Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.

Subtle and insubstantial, the expert leaves no trace; divinely mysterious, he is inaudible. Thus he is master of his enemy's fate.

To a surrounded enemy, you must leave a way of escape.

Too frequent rewards indicate that the general is at the end of his resources; too frequent punishments that he is in acute distress.

Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by unexpected routes and strike him where he has taken no precautions.

Bestow rewards without respect to customary practice; publish orders without respect to precedent. Thus you may employ the entire army as you would one man.

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence.

If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders ARE clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then
it is the fault of their officers.

A leader leads by example not by force.

A skilled commander seeks victory from the situation and does not demand it of his subordinates.

If your opponent is of choleric temperment, seek to irritate him.

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.

One defends when his strength is inadaquate, he attacks when it is abundant
Being unconquerable lies with yourself; being conquerable lies with your enemy

Move as swift as a wind, stay as silent as forest, attack fierce like fire, unmovable defence like a mountain.

-Sun Tzu
I believe Sun Tzu already covered most of Smash's philosophy...
 

The King

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
681
I might as well post the link to www.dictionary.com and ignorantly state that everything you quoted from Sun Tzu has also aready been said. See what I'm getting at?

Re-read my article. It isn't about the philosophies of battle and strategics. It isn't about how to out-smart your opponent or how to stay one step ahead of your competition by knowing your enemy inside and out. That's for another day, from another writer. Your post would more strongly tread water in Wobble's excellent thread on the mental and technical aspects of SSBM, and I'm sure even there such a post as yours would be unappreciated.

My thread has little relevance to your stifling quip. Mine was a fundamental breakdown of the stepping stones one must acknowledge and overcome before they can improve in a competitive environment. I'm not saying some parts of my post do not draw parallels to Tzu's work. But be realistic, when talking about anything competitive or strategic, what DOESN'T. The Art of War covered practically everything there is to cover on those subjects and more. That doesn't mean that new material should not be published, or revocalized. His work is not the be-all, end-all of his sect of philosophy, albeit Tzu's book did inspire philosophers for generations to come.

Whatever the point of your post was (imo, an attempt of belittlement and generalization, purposeful or not), regardless it still missed its mark, as that is not what my thread aimed to address. You'd have been better off quoting Seth Killian.

King Out
 

Uck

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
333
Location
Sanford Florida
@Ryuuseiken Marth

Although I did enjoy all of that Sun tzu war stuff.I cant help but to wonder why you didnt post it in a more positive way.Where King wrote original content from his experiance you copied and pasted someone elses work... < look 3 dots

Maybe you didnt notice that when you put 3 dots at the end of your statement it makes it sarcastic and implies unspeakable things. :laugh:
 

Elen

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
USA
Great thread, it's almost inspiring. You really made so many good points and it's just such a well thought out essay. Really awesome job king, we need more threads as well made as this.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
great read, king.

funny thing, too: i've had my fair share of norcal tournaments. i've played dozens of different players and i know nearly every matchup for my characters, so it just becomes a matter of resolve and experience.

but if there is one thing that i know i simply can't beat, it's king's puff. there's no one nearby who's good enough to train me against the matchup. i simply can't GET any puff experience. and even if i did, it would be a steep uphill battle against a jigglypuff of his playing level.

if this thread has inspired anything in me, it's inspired this:
to figure out how to beat king



(ho ho ho! how poetic! king's essay service to the community will backfire through his defeat by a lowly modesto smasher!)
 

Palafrak the valiant

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
27
Location
♪♫
Just like Bruce Lee said, "Don't think. FEEL. It is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

Here's what I have to add:
In times of frustration and defeat, a player can either quit, focus, get angry, or take a break. To quit is just the final solution to a seemingly temporary problem. To focus is to recognize your errors and take time. To get angry (the normal response) is to get pissed and John uncontrollably. To take a break is to relax, get your thoughts together, and come back enlightened, or at least eased. Personally, I prefer to take a break, especially since I've hit a mental barrier in my improvement curve, and I'm out of the game.

To say I'm out of the game is a John, I know, and it's no excuse for getting 4-stocked in crew battles in Team Pauk. The truth is, I feel something is missing, and although my crewmates might not see that, I do. Honestly, in friendly crew battles, I don't care. Even if I did care, I wouldn't win, but there would be a visible difference.

Taking a break isn't quitting. It's taking a break.

(Choknater, I look forward to your report of your defeat of King. I'm sorry I won't be able to make it, Team Pauk. v_v)
 

The King

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
681
Just like Bruce Lee said, "Don't think. FEEL. It is like a finger pointing away to the moon. Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."

Here's what I have to add:
In times of frustration and defeat, a player can either quit, focus, get angry, or take a break. To quit is just the final solution to a seemingly temporary problem. To focus is to recognize your errors and take time. To get angry (the normal response) is to get pissed and John uncontrollably. To take a break is to relax, get your thoughts together, and come back enlightened, or at least eased. Personally, I prefer to take a break, especially since I've hit a mental barrier in my improvement curve, and I'm out of the game.

To say I'm out of the game is a John, I know, and it's no excuse for getting 4-stocked in crew battles in Team Pauk. The truth is, I feel something is missing, and although my crewmates might not see that, I do. Honestly, in friendly crew battles, I don't care. Even if I did care, I wouldn't win, but there would be a visible difference.

Taking a break isn't quitting. It's taking a break.

(Choknater, I look forward to your report of your defeat of King. I'm sorry I won't be able to make it, Team Pauk. v_v)
QFT. Taking a "break" in this regard, whether you stop playing the game for a while or simply remove yourself from the tension of a heated match to relax, can provide an overwhelming sensation of clarity that cannot be understated. Sometimes the urge to improve or compete distracts us from how fun this game can be when played with a lighter temperment. If things get too heavy or too serious, just take a step back, calm your breath, slow your heart, and regather your focus and enjoyment for the game.

I'm also looking forward to my loss against you choknater. This article was written solely for aiding everyone's potential for improvement, and inspiring those to push themselves to reach new heights. Glad to see you've found focus as well. Just remember that beating someone, regardless of their skill, reminds me of that Bruce Lee quote below. Look beyond the basics of what character they are using, and instead find out why the person is winning, not how they are doing it.

King Out
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
Look beyond the basics of what character they are using, and instead find out why the person is winning, not how they are doing it.
thanks for that last tip. sort of a well-timed eye-opener, too. this weekend i'm facing meep, a luigi player i've always feared and never beaten. i need to remind myself that it's not luigi, but meep's strengths as a player using luigi's capabilities to win.

if i can figure some things out, it'll be a first step toward winning against you, one of my most feared opponents. regardless of what you said, it'll still be difficult for me to cope with a character i have almost no experience against. needless to say, it's a blast to play your crew members. the last tournament i went to, i did really well, and all i had to do was get rid of my fear of the "bob$" tag on top of falco's head.

keep it up, your writing so far has been extremely helpful to readers here in melee discussion, good and bad players alike.
 

Yen is Peach

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
99
Location
San Jose
King this was very inspiring...*cries*
Just simply Brillliant! I couldnt stop reading.

oh yeah...when are we going to finish off our item matches hmmm? :)
 

dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
120
How they are winning is many times a key to the reason why they are winning....don't discount the how.

As well, it helps to know what a charachter can do, so do not discount that either. It's true that people tend to focus on the how to beating a certain charachter, and while that is detrimental if in excess, it can nonetheless help in predicition or rather anticipation of their actions.

Also, are you trying to act all philosophical and ****, cuz it's not working. Here's WHY, the why you are referring to seems to be the why they want to win, not the WHY they are winning and not you. The why I'm referring to is far more applicable, why they want to win doesn't matter to most people, cept for the teeming masses of reporters and gossips, hey whatdya know that's pretty much all of us.
 

St. Viers

Smash Champion
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,409
Location
Boston MA
Very nice!! I'll need to tell my mini-crew about this ( I have a bunch of people at UMass with potential, but they aren't that good yet).

slightly OT, but based off of R_Marth's post to Sun Tzu.

Something that has really influenced how I approach anything competitive (SSBM, pingpong, cardgames, whatever I try to do) I'm more influenced by Miyamoto Mushashi's "Book of the 5 Rings" It seems to me to be the perfect thing to read to think about "pace" the part King has not written yet.
 

Razed

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
548
Location
Quebec
Pretty **** awesome. Completely honestly, I think you'd be a really great professional football/soccer/basketball/hockey coach
 

The King

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
681
dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40 said:
How they are winning is many times a key to the reason why they are winning....don't discount the how.

As well, it helps to know what a charachter can do, so do not discount that either. It's true that people tend to focus on the how to beating a certain charachter, and while that is detrimental if in excess, it can nonetheless help in predicition or rather anticipation of their actions.

Also, are you trying to act all philosophical and ****, cuz it's not working. Here's WHY, the why you are referring to seems to be the why they want to win, not the WHY they are winning and not you. The why I'm referring to is far more applicable, why they want to win doesn't matter to most people, cept for the teeming masses of reporters and gossips, hey whatdya know that's pretty much all of us.
How someone is winning and Why someone is winning go hand in hand. You can get wrapped up in the details of how someone beat you forever, analyzing stuff like how many Dairs you were hit by, or which moves you were killed by the most. But in the end, you'll find yourself going in circles, as every opponent has their own preferences and habits as to which tactics they employ against you, and your analytical data will change every match. The "Why they are winning" that I am referring to has nothing to do with why they want to win. Quite frankly the reason someone wants to win doesn't matter at all; all that matters is that the will to win is there. The "Why" I was referring to is what the opponent was doing that was getting the better of you personally. This boils down to not looking at the moves in particular he/she was using, but rather the tricks, baits, setups and combos that you were succeptable to in your match. Finding out why your opponent was beating you can lead to you discovering both your opponent's tendencies and your own; it shows you what parts of your game is predictable, as well as theirs.

I also never stated that knowing your character's potential should ever fall to the wayside. I covered in the 2nd section "Understanding The Game" that you need to know the boundaries of both your character and those which you will face. Once you know how your character and its matchups operate, you can move onto concentrating more on your opponent and his tendencies, rather than his character in particular. Ever ran into a player who was able to play multiple characters well? If you can figure out that player's strengths, weaknesses and patterns, you'll get a fairly good idea of what to expect from All his characters, whomever he should choose.

And as far as that last paragraph goes...I really tried my best to understand it, but that thing needs a major syntax overhaul. I addressed above that what you believed to be my meaning of "why" was wrong, or misguided. And as far as being "philosophical", well:

phil·o·soph·i·cal /ˌfɪləˈsɒfɪkəl/ Pronunciation[fil-uh-sof-i-kuhl] –adjective
1. of or pertaining to philosophy: philosophical studies.
2. versed in or occupied with philosophy.
3. proper to or befitting a philosopher.
4. rationally or sensibly calm, patient, or composed.

phi·los·o·pher /fɪˈlɒsəfər/ Pronunciation[fi-los-uh-fer] –noun
1. a person who offers views or theories on profound questions in ethics, metaphysics, logic, and other related fields.
2. a person who is deeply versed in philosophy.
3. a person who establishes the central ideas of some movement, cult, etc.
4. a person who regulates his or her life, actions, judgments, utterances, etc., by the light of philosophy or reason.
5. a person who is rationally or sensibly calm, esp. under trying circumstances.

...I try.

King Out
 

dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
120
Dictionary.com huh? Try random house.

I quote, "Look beyond the basics of what character they are using, and instead find out why the person is winning, not how they are doing it."

Now I wonder, all those d-airs, n-airs, fast-falls, do they mean anything? You made it out, so conveniently, to be singular moves that describe the how. How is a gameplan, a strategy, as well as a method to executing that strategy. Why is the question we must ask ourselves to find out the how. Why and how may be in a sense synonymous, however, the why focuses on ones own play, primarily, while the how focuses on another's play. In reallity, they both come to the same conclusion, what is the other player doing and what do I need to do in order to defeat them.

Most people buy into your wordy, glorified insight/word-play, I, on the other hand, can look past all the bull and see that your conclusion is very simple and anyone who's got experience playing the game at a competitive level has probably come to the same conclusions. To put it simply, I'm not disagreeing with you, so much as everyone else's unsupported accolade.

.....I don't try, I do
 

h1roshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
5,652
Location
Kissimmee, Florida playing melee! (f*** brawl, th
wow...this is a great read...i am the smasher that has tech skill...knows all the combos and charcaters and spacing...im at the point where the limiting factor is me...and my problem is that i always get mad...im always frustrated when something doesnt go my way...when i expect the game to react in a certain way and something completel different happens that benefits my opponent...lately i have been working on my mindset...and this post really inspired me...im trying hard now to contain my emotions...i found myself winning a mojaority of the games against my friend that i would usually lose to after trying to keep my cool during all the games...if he got an early lead instead of getting discouraged..i would just tell myself.."i got this ****"...and eventually i would come back and win...just thanks for giving me that extra puch to become that much better...peace

-hiroshi
 

Yoru

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
149
Location
Skokie, Illinois
That post was frickin' sick. Pure awseomeness. ^_^

I find it funny how I haven't read a book this entire year (even though I had hw where I was supposed to read a book) but I read that entire thing with enjoyment.

Nice job King. ^_^
 

MVPaintballer

the lil d that could
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
430
Location
78705, TEXAS
This thread is full of hippies..........











j/k


Was a really good read King, i can honestly say my game has stepped up after reading this (and i thought I was at a roadblock).
 
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