Reaching the Pantheon: An Analysis of Ascending to the Next Level

[Banks]

the king is genius, or more correctly, a philosopher.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Wow look at all the fanboys.

 

[Raistlin]

Why do you insist on being an a**hole?

 

[Banks]

dreamcloud sucks at smash, let him be

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Lol I made accusations on the data available. How bout you?

Why do you insist on being an ***-kisser?

You kinda people annoy the hell outta me, and yes I will go out of my way to criticize.

You think you can beat me huh. I highly doubt that, have any tourney experience? Who do you play with on a regular basis?

 

[Wobbles]

Dreamcloud, one of the ideas of an essay is that it takes a simple idea, expands it, and then re-simplifies it so other people can understand it. Furthermore, a lot of people can know OF an idea without understanding it fully. Detailed explanation of it can help those people out.

Most people buy into your wordy, glorified insight/word-play, I, on the other hand, can look past all the bull and see that your conclusion is very simple and anyone who's got experience playing the game at a competitive level has probably come to the same conclusions.

So the post was useless because you claim to have known the information beforehand?

Umm... if Ken goes into the Marth forum and bashes somebody's advice, saying "lol I knew that already, useless post," we say, "duh." Posts explaining things are for the people who don't understand it. If you DO understand it already, then you are not the target audience.

King's post clearly helped a lot of people understand some of the mindsets that successful tournament players use. He is receiving thanks for taking time to explain, in detail, the essence of improvement. Oh, but YOU knew all that already. Nevermind. Somebody lock the thread. Dreamcloud knew already.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Not quite, who said I was bashing King. I'm bashing "you". FANBOY.

The best written works have the fewest words saying the most. Can you say the same of King's essay? If one takes their time, they should do a better job, maybe even with a bit of humility. Why should I show respect to someone who writes so arrogantly, maybe you cannot spot it, so thus I blame the ignorant. Anyone who signs out in this manner,

'Your Name' Out

is arrogant, case closed. You gotta love the egotistical comment when he says, "I try."

If you think I'm arrogant, look again, I provide assumptions in order to debase the "King's" writing. I say that I can look past because, frankly, I can. And make no mistake, I make the assumption on the part of everyone, showing that I at least have faith in others' ability to play this game well. As well, I didn't say I disagree with WHAT King is saying, and if you've been paying any attention then you'd see that I disagree with how he says it, sometimes questioning what he's trying to say.


One last thing, do you see me being defended by anyone else? NO. So piss off and let him do the arguing, unless of course you've got something to discuss with me, something that actually concerns you.

 

[Uck]

Not quite, who said I was bashing King. I'm bashing "you". FANBOY.

This is not about fanboyism its expressing gratittude to King for taking the time to post insightful thoughts to help out the community.You are not being intellectually honest with yourself.Stop being a jealous person.

Tell me what have you done to help the community out?You must be a second generation smasher who believes information given in the smashboards is some sort of right instead of a privilege by people who take the time to make informative threads.

If you really had some sort of counter arguement you would of posted it instead you are fanboy on hating fanboys unneccerraly and inaccuralty. lol

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Read my above post again. As well, NEWS FLASH, this is a blogger site. Also, anyone who believes information is exclusive is clearly not open-minded. Jealousy? Of what? Success? If I truly cared then perhaps I would post a counter post, better worded in order to out-do the "King." What I'm peeved about is you people, who have nil to add to what has been said, just inflating the already big-headed attitude that the "King" seems to exude.

Tell me, what qualifies an intelligent post? Do you believe all those posts before this were intelligent ones?

 

[Uck]

You dont get it!!! King is not bigheaded he is trying to add insight to help new comers out...
You are the one being big headed by trying to bash his thread unnecessaraly.

His post is not about if he will win a grammy in writing but people appreciate that he tries to help people out using past experiance.

I dont care how right you think you are becuase everything King posted was to help using thought and experiance.

You make fun of him for trying to be philosophical?He never said he was trying to be all philosophical he was trying to help.

You lack understanding.When people post wow your a genius there being generous.They dont actually think hes Albert Einstein.When King says "King out" This is something hes always done.Its a gaming board for goodness sake why do you take it so seriously.

 

[Banks]

dreamcloud who in here was being a fanboy. i was just looking for something to say so i can get 1000 posts. lmao

king has way more tourney exp then you tho, so i wonder why you get mad when people recognize who he is and give him props. if anyone here has a tatoo of king on their *** then ill agree with you tho. any takers?

 

[choknater]

seriously dreamcloud, get a grip lol..

king has one of the best and most professional smash mindsets out there, and he hasn't even been around for that long compared to most other pros. (koreandj on the other hand... omfg the big mystery behind KDJ is HOW DID HE GET GOOD SO FAST LOLOLOL. too good!)

but yeah. this thread has been full of praise for king's topic. dreamcloud just proves that you "can't win 'em all." no one's being a fanboy. king's getting respect because, well, he's good.

want real fanboyism? i'll give it to you: king is the best jigglypuff player in the WORLD and is one of the strongest players in one of the most prestigious crews ever to grace the smash community with their presence. he's done a service to the community not only by teaching people how to play jigglypuff in the character specific and here in melee discussion and the SBR, he's also a very kind smasher in person, ready to give tips to the people he's, well, ******. and he could probably kick your a$$ too. [/fanboy]

hm... i meant most of that actually. maybe because it's true.

nevertheless, i'm still going to beat the king sooner or later, regardless of how good he is. hohooh oohhoohoh ohosl loolloloLOl

*ahem*
-choknater out


LOL

 

[Banks]

also, king invented the nair to rest. obv that pwns dreamclouds ***

 

[tarheeljks]

@dreamcloud: i hate to stoke this fire anymore, but i don't see any need to accuse him of being arrogant. the writing is a bit pedantic, but it's simply a matter of style. critique the content of his message, not the style. i also happen to prefer concise writing, but i didn't see much arrogance in the tone of his post ( no more than is healthy anyway). i thought he was being sarcastic when he said "i try", but even if he were serious, it doesn't detract from his point. like i said b/f, i agree that it could have been a little shorter and just as well written/meaningful, but he got his point across all the same. you said you agreed with him, so let's just leave it at that.

 

[Raistlin]

And I like how your only evidence for his arrogance is that he signs his posts "King out." What bull****. I've read a lot of his posts, and not ONCE have I gotten the impression that he's arrogant. But obviously a signature is more than enough evidence to prove your point.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

............maybe it's because he's DBR, either way, you don't see it because you're blinded.

Also, WOW, you all fell for it. Man, gotta love these long-winded arguments, entertaining actually. Did anybody read the line in my post that said something along the lines of King arguing for himself? Heh, somehow I didn't think anybody would pay attention to details, perhaps you should read King's initial post again and take in ALL the information instead of the bits and pieces that you seem to agree with. By the way, I doubt that y'all lack reading comprehension to any great degree, however you may, but I'm guessing it's just a lack of patience or reading for reading's sake.

 

[Raistlin]

Well, at least you're not backing up your bull**** with more bull**** or anything. "You disagree with me?! Well then, obviously you're blinded to the truth!"

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

I could explain why King seems arrogant, but you probably wouldn't understand or would choose to interpret it differently, why should I respond to you with anything coherent if you don't extend the same to me.

Here's my explanation anyway. Arrogance, being overly confident or presuming knowledge. Take your pick. Either way, arrogance, if and when you meet any of the posters is likely not to manifest itself in their daily lives as they may express it in the boards. What else can be said than that people like to talk ****, however if this made them arrogant to any great degree then most everyone on the boards would be seriously arrogant. What you fail to realize, or maybe you do and choose to ignore it, is that this is not me, or at least not the person interacts with people in the real world. I find this entertaining, not to boost my own reputation or skill-level through false claims, however I may to reach an end, but to see the response and counter them, or attempt to do so is actually "fun." Anyway, as for the reason I believe King is arrogant in real life, his language seems overly cultured for the boards. Now, this alone is nothing, however I believe he doesn't speak like this in real life. After all, why would one train themselves to talk in such a manner? Yes, people write differently than they speak, but I find that they are connected in mannerisms, the more exact and correct the writing, the more exact and correct the writer tends to be. Now this in itself is not a bad thing, but coupled with an ego becomes arrogance. The non-chalant attitude is usually held by those who don't wish to concern themselves with others, examining the accusations made but not the accuser. I argue somewhat differently in many cases, I tend to examine the accuser, not the accusations. The accusations are difficult to argue against because they can change, the accuser cannot.

 

[Raistlin]

Oh, so since you assume I "wouldn't understand" or that I would disregard it in turn, you're not going to bother? Either you have absolutely no argument, or you're the arrogant one here, telling me what I can or can't understand or what I'll do. I'm not sure how I was being incoherent, so your last sentence also doesn't make sense. Go ahead, give your argument if you truly have one; or just keep acting all holier-than-thou, that you're the Enlightened One who can see King's true arrogant nature.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

I said probably, and for your benefit I put down an explanation. I can only presume it, but none of you have even considered that he could be arrogant, maybe you should look back on DBR's history, how they've acted in the past. The group DOES in a sense lend itself to the individual when charachterizing the individual. In reality, this is all just a feeling, a notion, but one that I feel is worth arguing, or perhaps I just like arguing, which do you think?

Incoherent to me.....isn't that all that matters? nah this is not a question.

**** that's arrogant.

Op, almost forgot, got a question, have you ever played King?

 

[Raistlin]

That didn't explain s***, dreamcloud. Now you're the one getting all wordy. You think he's arrogant because he chose to be wordy as well? You just went on a tirade about arguing against accusations instead of the people, but you didn't talk about how you think the King is arrogant, and didn't give any solid evidence. Now I know you're going to say, "I knew you wouldn't understand," but that's because there isn't anything in there TO understand. You were hard to understand there sometimes, and you just talked yourself in circles. Next time you decided to bash somebody randomly for the way they write, you could have the decency to back up your claims with more than a paragraph of incoherent ramblings.

 

[Raistlin]

" In reality, this is all just a feeling, a notion, but one that I feel is worth arguing, or perhaps I just like arguing, which do you think?"

I think you enjoy accusing people of the exact same thing you do.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

I already gave you evidence.........I compared him to other posters, which is unfortunately the only evidence I had and also have shown, however shakily, that most people in reality will not act arrogantly, as they seem to on the boards. There are no absolute facts that I can provide you, nor can you be absolutely sure that he is not, in fact, arrogant. I doubt that I am mistaking knowledge and confidence for arrogance. Also, arrogance is not always a bad thing, although I'm certainly not a fan. Arrogance finds solace in teaching others, confirming ones abilities, and ackowledging that one is widely heard and respected. Those, truly, not arrogant don't feel they need the acknowledgment or acceptance or even that they need to voice their opinions to the world. The reason for this is that those not arrogant live in their own world, able to isolate others, to look at them objectively, not judging but just observing and drawing conclusions about themselves. This however is not really part of human nature, it's the part of civilization and society we try to cultivate but fail to do so completely. Arrogance in this way is a product of our discriminatory abilities and thus is difficult to suppress, however in listening and not talking/writing we tend to gain the humility necessary for eradicating any trace of arrogance.

Note. I did not assume humility in this post, I merely provided my own thoughts on the subject. King's own, willful posting of the thoughts he has, is in a sense arrogance as much as it is selflessness, if you want to consider it that. He thinks it could help us, but he does not deny and in fact is probably most gratified by the praise that is wrought. If he were truly not arrogant then he would first reflect upon himself and then argue against my posts. This, however was not the case, he most likely, almost definitely, chose to focus on what I posted and then argued against instead of considering the possiblity that I may have a point. The easiest, also the subtlest, way to convince someone of something is to argue their point for them and show them, even if false, that it is not in their greatest interest. I have seen none of US, including me, at the boards do this.

Hypocrisy, yah I guess that could be the case, but at the very least I understand what I'm doing.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Double post.....ah well. Anyway, hmm I find the other people who posted before you are pretty light-hearted, gotta say I enjoyed reading those posts.

As for N-Air to rest, I dun know about king inventing that ****, but yes that does tend to destroy me.

 

[MVPaintballer]

tl;dr,
You came in here and said fanboys, i personally HATE jiggy players (cept JF). I'v never met King, talked to him or seen his montage(s).

 

[Wobbles]

Dreamcloud... wow.

First off: This is a public message board. You don't get to say, "lol nobody else can talk." Anybody with a registered name can and should be posting their opinions and interpretations. Claiming that only one person is allowed to defend himself is at best misguided, and worst willfully stupid.

Second: You even said that you weren't attacking King, but the people who support and gave him positive responses. So I guess that means we ARE supposed to be the ones responding. And before you ask, yes I have played Phoenix Wright. I'm very good at finding contradictions.

Third: King DOES speak with a wide vocabulary and articulates himself very well in real life. Having met him and conversed with him on numerous occasions, I can tell you he's one of the nicest and smartest people you will ever have the privelege of speaking to. He does not dumb himself down when comes to Smashboards.

Fourth: Who the eff are you? Point me to a tournament with good people that shows you have any skill or knowledge on which to base your idiotic posts.

Fifth: You want us to understand? Try writing with appropriate grammar and stop arguing yourself in contradictory circles.

Sixth: Before you accuse me of being a fanboy of sorts, I'll just let you know WHY I'm defending King. You are accusing a personal friend of mine of being a person that he is not. I have talked Smash with him over lunch, played him in tournaments and friendlies, and talked to him on AIM numerous times. He has defended me in other threads, and I gladly take my time to do the same for him.

Seventh: Unfortunately for you, the internet can only reveal what people are thinking inasmuch as they communicate it through writing. How do you know King didn't stop and go, "Maybe he has a point?" I doubt he did because you clearly had no basis for your argument, but he's a better man than I so maybe he tried anyhow. You have no way of knowing, so your argument is useless in that regard.

Eighth: Jumping Jesus on a pogostick, ENGLISH MOTHER****ER, DO YOU SPEAK IT? Do you even have a concept of a run on sentence, or is your period key broken?

Ninth: Your posts themselves are flooded with arrogance and pretense. You also don't attempt to clear yourself of a hypocritical stigma, claiming that such an action is okay because you RECOGNIZE that you're being hypocritical. Saying "I'm an *******" does not let you be an *******. If anything, it makes it worse.

Tenth: You don't have to be a fanboy to congratulate somebody on a post well made.

Eleventh: You attempted to insult him by calling his writing philisophical with a derogatory slant. He basically pimp-slapped your argument into the ground by showing you what philosophical means and using the rhetorical "I try" as a means of turning your attempted insult into a perceived compliment. The fact that you interpret a fairly basic retort as arrogance only shows your idiocy.

Twelfth: Yeah, I talk like this in real life. Ask anybody.

Thirteen: You came on here and started demeaning his posts without any kind of civil introduction, compliments, or disclaimers. No wonder nobody's on your side. You're behaving like an ******* and an idiot.

 

[Banks]

im just joking with dreamcloud i dont have the urge to read any of those long *** posts =p

 

[BigRick]

Sss-lash!!!

 

[Raistlin]

"Hypocrisy, yah I guess that could be the case, but at the very least I understand what I'm doing"

I do enjoy all your not-so-subtle jabs at my intelligence. I'm probably one of the smartest people you'll ever have conversed with; but that's really irrelevant, I guess. What's really funny is you don't seem to have ANY idea what the hell you're doing. You bash King's writing style and claim to like more concise writing...but then you go and talk like THAT. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously after such obvious bullsh**ing?

 

[Prodigal One]

dreamcloud got owned by wobbles...anyways, I think Dreamcloud is a pseudo-intellect.


In in all fairness, KING has earned the right to be "arrogant", although if he chooses to act on this "right", I know not.

 

[Dark_Crono]

This is really amazing article it made me think of why i lost in the finals of the last tourney i played and the reaction i had when i lost. Congratulations

 

[tarheeljks]

@dreamcloud: your own posts regarding king's arrogance are an indictment of your own. so, who does that make the hypocrite here?

 

[The King]

Do I speak in the same tone in which I write? Not to the same degree, no, because explaining something in that great of detail would exhaust too much breath, and take up far too much time to make my point in a normal conversation. Also, few people speak in essay form. However, I try to be both as articulate and concise as possible in real life. I choose to write in the style I've adopted because I happen to love writing, and have a flair for making my works sound interesting and entertaining to read. I could write far more concisely, but that isn't my style, pure and simple. I like to have fun with what I write out, and I do so while utilizing all the words, terms and cliches I'm familiar with in the English language.

And quite frankly, it isn't arrogance which with I lace my articles. It's called confidence. I say this with complete confidence because I know just how good I am compared to a lot of people, and am very experienced in this game and in game theory in general. I've competed and held my own against the very best in the nation. However, I choose not to speak about myself in my articles unless need be, and when I do I try to maintain a modest and humble tone. Doing otherwise would usually distract people from the points of my article I'm trying to make. But it's not like I sugarcoat everything. I don't flat-out try to hide what I'm capable of in this game if I need to mention it; I simply don't enjoy bringing it into a spotlight. I'm a modest person, and those who know me can testify to this. And I promise you, if I held a personal aura of arrogance or loftiness, I sure as **** wouldn't spend my time writing out large articles on stuff I already know, in an attempt to help others improve.

And in the end, I was hesitant to argue for myself because it really isn't worth the trouble doing so. You think I'm arrogant? Rofl fine, go right on ahead and keep thinking that. Doesn't change my viewpoint on the main topic at hand, which I discussed in my first point. Arguing against the point or message of someone's article is one thing, which I'm comfortable with in receiving both praise and criticism. Drawing conjectures from my writing style and my signature about my personality is something totally different. You've taken this thread and attempted to bomb it just to try to call me an arrogant *******. Wow.

King Out

 

[NJzFinest]

This is amazing King.

 

[Bloshi]

Great guide. I think I have already taken a lot of the steps mentioned. I still need to work on analyzing my own game though. It was just today that I rolled into a Fox up smash, and I said out loud "I'll never do that again". Two minutes later, I did it again. After that, I didn't do it again. There was some improvement, but I shouldn't have done it in the first place.

I never remember going through the ego-trip phase. I remember when I could beat a lot of the people I knew, but I never claimed to be the best, or even to be a high-level player. What I do remember is challenging everybody without knowing what i was getting into, which eventually led me into the CO smash scene. I think I just kept the cockiness mostly to myself.

P.S. The term for "self-epiphany" is "anagnorisis", although most people here wouldn't know this term, so leave it out anyways. Just...getting that out there, for future reference, you know.

 

[Aaron_Sketch]

Your post was really inspiring, it made me wish I actualy owned his game so I could go to Training Mode. (I usually play at my friends' house for two hours every morning and two hours at night)

...Anyways, @ the dreamcloud guy, you can't really apply any accusations to us cause you don't actually know how we act in life. So you can't really call us a fanboy cause like you said yourself, you need evidence to back up what you say. And what's so bad about using big words? Lol, there's nothing wrong with using big words cause I find that big words give more accurate descriptions of stuff than just using general terms. I know, I don't use big words too often, but that's just cause I'm lazy.

Continuing on. Awesome post King. I'm impressed at your dedication to get your point across, when arguing with the dreamcloud there. And Wobbles, and all the other guys who helped defend King, you're all cool too. I know I don't really decide who's awesome and who's not, but whatever. You too Dreamcloud, nice dedication, but mabye you should use your powers for good instead of evil.

And so yeah. I'm bored so I think I'll go look up some more IC vids. Cya

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

WOAH, **** there have been alot of posts since I've been gone.
As for what King has said, eh, you have your opinions, I have mine. I'll say whatever the **** I want, and you can do the same, only thing is I don't have a reputation to uphold, it seems like you do.

pseudo-intellect, I'd like to think of myself more as an entertainer.

As for wobbles, do thoughts have periods? Didn't think so. Do I care if my thoughts are in an appropriate format for you to peruse, not really, so thus do what you want, how you want it, and leave the rest to my judgment.

Basic retort? Then what's an advanced retort? Like advanced tech? FUNNY ****.

#13, Look again FOO, back near the first page.

Circles are better than squares.

Finally, This is just a game. Do you know what separates a game and a sport? As such, when one talks theory in a game it's relatively useless. I go so far as to say it's a joke. I guarantee you this, instinct will beat strategy no matter what. Simple approach with advanced tech and instinct are the key to dominating. Unfortunately, only two to three characters can do this consistently, fox, falco, and maybe falcon.

As for why I don't say much good about King, he doesn't need it. Look at all his supporters, LOOK at all the praise. Y'all don't seem to add to his post, myself included, however mine is a protest, not a praise. I protest the idle-minded, the people who simply read and do not question. None have asked for clarification nor given their own, even if opposing, thoughts on the subject. Where's the contrast. It seems like people have only complimented style or wording, not so much the content, taking for granted that experience lends wisdom to those who have it.

 

[Bloshi]

This distinction between why and how still seems unclear to me. I will break it down according to how I see it and I hope King or someone else who understands can tell me where I go wrong.

How I lost: I fell into his trap. I wavedashed back and he daired me into a combo.

Why I lost: I fell into his trap. I wavedashed back in order to evade, he predicted it, and started a combo.

It seems that how deals with particular instances of matches and why is a more generalized interaction between the two players. Why appears to deal with why I fell into his trap instead of how, which deal with the fact that I did. I don't know. Is this right?

 

[Raistlin]

"Do I care if my thoughts are in an appropriate format for you to peruse, not really, so thus do what you want, how you want it, and leave the rest to my judgment."

You're still making no sense. The whole reason you even started posted was to complain that King had written the article in the style you prefer, and yet you freak out when someone points out that your posts were incoherent at best? What?

And what exactly are we supposed to be leaving to your judgment? Your view on the article? We're not allowed to give our view on it either, or say what we think about your bull****? You sure are person of many contradictions. And based on your whole attitude, I'd have to guess you're in your first or second semester of college, majoring in English or Philosophy at a northeastern school. If not, you sure ACT like a pretentious *******.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Why = What I did to lose.
How = What happened to me to cause my loss. Usually as a result of what I did to lose.

That's what I got from your post.



Hmm so you agree, East Coasties are pricks. Excellent.
Also, no philosophy, no english. As well, I judge and thus formulate my own opinion, considering another's stance but not basing my own opinion off of that directly. However that's just nonsense that I put in to incense your, apparently, fickle temperament.