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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Louie G.

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Messages
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based on Sakurai's comments, this DLC was not decided on in full until around November of 2019. We also can use the timeline for Banjo to get a rough idea of when talks in specific would happen for a smash character, in Banjo's case they appear to have happened around June of 2018. I think after that point we can say that the future of the franchise was not as much of a question mark anymore around 2019, when this wave of DLC would have been chosen.
Yeah, and this is funny enough the reason why I'm most skeptical of Crash too. Because it seems like we're on the same page about this, and how Crash established himself most confidently somewhere in 2019 or so, but I'm not really convinced that FP2 being decided by Nov 2019 applies to third parties, especially not ones that would have required overseas negotiation. I think that applies most to characters like Min Min and perhaps another first party or very very close third party partner whose negotiations would be a lot less complicated.

But that's just my theory anyway, we really don't know but I think Steve and Sephiroth set more of a precedent toward "these characters were under heavy discussion / potential negotiation like three years ago at least".
 
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SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,462
Location
Sweden
All right, so:

Crash:

Chance: 12,5 %

Now, I'm basing my chance percentage on the fact that there are only 3 spots left (unless Sakurai and co. decide to go for more characters, which feels far-fetched unless he directly confirms this). Given that, Crash feels semi-likely - he's practically in Nintendo's wheelhouse and has quite a lot of legacy behind him as a former Mario rival.

Activision-Blizzard has proven to be rather mercurial though - they can cooperate in some aspects, but also be completely "Nah, we wanna get what we want!" in other aspects. That's given me a lot of pause when it comes to their games overall - not just Crash, although he's the highest profile within these circles.

Want: 65 %

While my Crash experience is mainly based on Wrath of Cortex, it still left a pretty decent impression on me. He's also a likeable character in his own right, which is a plus in my book. He does have some interesting gameplay-related quirks, but can't say that those rank amongst my favorites. Still a plus.

Tracer:

Chance: 2 %

For me Tracer's a bit of a weird spot. She's Overwatch's mascot by and large, but not to the point where other characters are neccessarily overshadowed by her. Overwatch never really took off in Japan; there's one Japanese(-American) professional player in the Overwatch League, ta1yo who plays for the San Fransisco Shock... but that's just one Japanese compared to the 91 Koreans and 19 Chinese players in the League. Also, there's no team representing Tokyo yet - contrast that with Seoul and four Chinese cities (Shanghai, Chengdu, Hangzhou, Guangzhou) being represented with teams.

While professional play does not neccessarily translate to how popular a game is within a country... such a big disparity is telling. Also, Overwatch League spots were valued by Blizzard at the 20 - 60 million dollar range (depending on which season the team entered the league), which is telling. The thing that does make me flinch the most with regards to Overwatch's place in Japan though, is this:



While this image refers to competitions held within Japan, it tells quite a bit. If Nintendo's interested in an IP heavily linked to e-sports... they might wanna look to League.

Want: 70 %

While I've cooled off a bit on Overwatch, I'm the kind of person who likes action-heavy games. And Overwatch was right in the alley when it came out. Yeah, she would have to compensate a bit with the moveset (that can be said for any Overwatch or lets say MOBA character) but the way Blink and Recall interact with each other would create very interesting dynamic within Smash.

Also, I just like the character as well - she's also a likeable one in lore, as she's cheerful and confident, but also protective of those she cherises.

Nominations: LoL Rep x5, 4X Strategy Rep x5
Predictions: Sora 5,5 %, Layton 13 %.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
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Messages
22,801
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on the subject of sales, we gotta remember in our speculation that its not the same thing as popularity. after all theres bound to be people who buy something and dont like it
 

TCT~Phantom

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My bad on the first one, but I'm going to disagree with the second point, Crash 4 was announced in 2020, and while I will admit there was a decent chance Crash was making a comeback, nothing was certain. That is a small con though, I don't think it makes a massive difference but still thought it might be worth mentioning.
I mean, Crash 4 was announced in 2020, but that game certainly was well into development for a while. If I had to pinpoint a timeframe where it was certainly being worked on to start...September 2018, when Spyro Reignited was basically done and getting the final touches on. I think that at the very least once the sales numbers for Crash were in Activision would go full steam ahead, which is likely when they decided Crash was now one of their flagship brands. I think that at the very least Nintendo would likely have known the franchise was going to go further since its not unusual for Nintendo to get material in advance to help with the decisions third parties make for Smash. MGS IV stuff in Brawl and the Grappling Hook for Joker come to mind as evidence for that.

Basically, odds are if talks were in place for Crash, Activision would tilt their hand to let Nintendo know about Crash 4. While it wasn't publically announced, it would make sense for Nintendo to know in advance if Crash was coming to smash.

Yeah, and this is funny enough the reason why I'm most skeptical of Crash too. Because it seems like we're on the same page about this, and how Crash established himself most confidently somewhere in 2019 or so, but I'm not really convinced that FP2 being decided by Nov 2019 applies to third parties, especially not ones that would have required overseas negotiation. I think that applies most to characters like Min Min and perhaps another first party or very very close third party partner whose negotiations would be a lot less complicated.

But that's just my theory anyway, we really don't know but I think Steve and Sephiroth set more of a precedent toward "these characters were under heavy discussion / potential negotiation like three years ago at least".
I mean, I am using that as the baseline for the latest negotiations would have went. I would say that Crash cemented himself confidently in terms of his comeback in 2017 with the N Sane Trilogy and Activision saying in 2018 that Crash was one of their flagship franchises up there with Call of Duty, WoW/Hearthstone, and Overwatch to name a few I remember from then.

In terms of negotiations, its hard to speculate because we have pieces of info that more or less contradict each other. One one hand, it is basically an open secret that negotiations for banjo took place in June of 2018. Considering that the first pass was decided in November of that year, I think that further supports that. On the other hand, we know Steve talks were going on for a while, but it is complicated to say to what extent since we do not know. I would say though that in my eyes Crash would have cemented himself by 2017, and by 2019 CTR was launching and Crash 4 was well under way. But this is more or less splitting hairs because it is a question of when Crash truly came back.

on the subject of sales, we gotta remember in our speculation that its not the same thing as popularity. after all theres bound to be people who buy something and dont like it
While that is not untrue, I think it is a little disingenuous. I would argue consistent success with sales, combined with Smash requests gives plenty of evidence that Crash is pretty popular. Sales are not an end all be all, otherwise we would actually get a Tetris rep. But it is important to weigh them in speculation a little at least.

I’m a tad discombobulated so it’ll be a bit before I can get my post out with coherent thoughts on both characters

Just a heads up
No worries, day will likely be going on until at least Tuesday, so rest up.
 

Lyncario

Smash Ace
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Dec 3, 2019
Messages
926
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Hell
Fixed schedule part 9: huh...

"hey plumber boy, your new 100-0 matchup is here!"


Chances: 16%

People have varying opinions on Crash joining, between the people saying he's extremly likely, a lock, unlikely, nearly impossible, or impossible. Personaly, I see his chances as more neutra lthan anything else. First of all, let's get that out of the way: yes, Crash is a very big and iconic character, who also was notably is one of the first western characters to become popular in Japan. He also did good on that japanese poll for Melee that was like 20 years ago. However, there's also nuance to those. FIrst of all, the melee poll was over 20 years ago and extremly small, it's a non-factor. Second of all, while Crash did do good in Japan 20 years ago, he doesn't do nearly as good there anymore nowadays, even i fhe still does better than say, Rayman and Spyro. For the part of Crash being big and iconic, that's true, but I'm also in the opinion that we already got the 2 big hitters of the pass with Steve and Sephiroth, so in my opinion characters like Crash are a bit less likely now. He is also very requested, and while he was requested since a while in Japan, it was never xtremly big, and it only got big in the rest of the world since Ultimate's aouncement, meaning that while the requests for him are big, they're also recent. Another things is Activision Blizzard, who are very hard to work with according to every source about companies who made a collaboration with them. However, Nintendo does seem to go with them more easily than other companies, as shown with how DK and Bowser are both in the Wii U version of that one Skylanders games, though the relationship between both isn't nearly as strong as say, between Nintendo and Capcom, or Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo. And now, leaks. I do not believe in the 5 year plan to make Crash an icon again leak, and even if it was true, Crash in Smash would be something that Activision wants, not something that Nintendo asked, so it would be a small factor, just that Activision would be very ok to work with Nintendo for Crash in Smash. Speaking of Activision working with other companies, the leak of the Crash cartoon being cancelled because of Activision, probably true, but also pretty much says nothing that we don't already know already. And the SephiReiCrash-MOS leak (yes that's how I'm naming it and you're all obligated to refer to it like that too now), is a thing that could be true even if most likely false in my opinion, so only time will tell about it, but if KOS-MOS is the next character then Crash does become extremly more likely. And I think that this is it.

Want: 88%

Sure, Crash's games are very fun, and he could have a cool moveset that is more than just spinning, as some people like to think his moveset would be. More importantly, Crash is the most wanted of two of my friends, so I would be very glad for them if he got in. Also, a Crash stage could be nice. And also what I think is an hot take, but I'm also getting kinda tired of the "Crash is the next character" culture that has been going on for the entirity of this pass, like do people not remember the period where the speculation scene was like "the 2 last characters of the fighter pass are 2 out of an RE rep, Doomguy, Hayabusa, and Lloyd"? Especialy since this "Crash is the next" culture has been started by relatively big youtubers who post their wishlists as predictions. I still think that Crash would be cool, but he's nowhere near being a lock as some say.

KILLER QUEEN'S THIRD BOMB, BITE ZA DUSTO!

Chances: 1%

Overwatch is a big and popular game that is on Switch and is also getting a sequel, and we're only disscussing it because some people though that the leaked Overwatch Switch case meant that Tracer was going to be in, it's not even on the level of a 4chan text leak. Anyway, we all already know the drill, Overwatch is the new big game that Blizzard made around 5 years ago, it's been very big ever since, a big part of it being because of the E-sports surrounding it. I don't think that it being a big E-sports disqualify it to get in despite Nintendo's view on competitive Smash, after all we have Ryu, Ken, and Terry, but Overwatch would kinda rely a lot on it's big E-sports scene in order to get in, and if NIntendo wants to touch that audience, then they could simply set on League Of Legends, the biggest E-sports game since like a decade ago, who is also owned by Tencent, with who Nintendo are already working with to bring the Switch to China and to make Pokemon Unite. Also Activision Blizzard is hard to work with but it doesn't disqualify any of their characters, please refer to the mini-section I made about it in the chance section for Crash sor further details. In the end, I just really don't think that Tracer is hapening at all, partly because the reason as to why she entered the speculation scene is so stupid, about on the level of when I saw some people saying that Crash was confirmed because Crash 4 wasn't on the Switch yet (yes, I saw some people argue that somewhere, don't remember when tho).

Want: 50%

If Tracer gets in, then I would have so much fun shouting "KILLER QUEEN'S THIRD BOMB, BITE ZA DUSTO!" everytime she use her go back some seconds in time ability. And that's pretty much all what I can say about me wanting her because I don't play Overwatch or even fps in general. The recent controversy that there was in China isn't helping her for my want rating of her, bu it's also not going against her that much even if it makes me go "Activision-Blizzard doesn't deserve anything good", but then again, I want Rayman in Smash and Ubisoft has been way worse as of recently. Anyway, that's it.

Nominations

Madeline Mii x20

Predictions


Sora: 6.4%

Layton: 18.7%
 

fogbadge

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Messages
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Scotland
While that is not untrue, I think it is a little disingenuous. I would argue consistent success with sales, combined with Smash requests gives plenty of evidence that Crash is pretty popular. Sales are not an end all be all, otherwise we would actually get a Tetris rep. But it is important to weigh them in speculation a little at least.
oh i dont deny crash is popular i just think its something we should bare in mind. i may not like crash but i think hes got a good chance
 

Enigma735

Smash Lord
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Mt. Cuminshidmore
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SW-0889-8796-1569
TCT~Phantom TCT~Phantom recommended to me that I should participate in this Rate Their Chances, and I thought it sounded really fun, so here we go!

CRASH BANDICOOT
Chance: 90%

I'm kinda surprised to see a lot of pessimism over Crash's chances in this thread. I have been following Crash speculation for quite some time, and I genuinely think he has a decent shot of happening. I made a huge list detailing big pieces of evidence in favor of Crash's likelihood over on the Crash thread, and you can view that list in my signature. However, to save you some time from reading that whole thing, I suppose I should briefly break down some key things in favor of Crash's inclusion.

1. Crash has been seeing quite a bit of support on the Nintendo Switch with his games coming out on the system and Crash-themed controllers. I do understand that a franchise getting new games doesn't necessarily mean that a character is getting in to Smash, but what it DOES mean is that this seems to be a franchise Nintendo has on the back of their head. Not to mention the fact that in the March 8 2018 Nintendo Direct, the tagline for the N. Sane Trilogy reads "GAMING ICON CRASHES NINTENDO SWITCH", which proves that Nintendo is fully aware of just how big Crash is as a character, and it would make so much sense to capitalize off that popularity in the biggest gaming crossover of all time.
2. Not only that, but we also have that huge Activision Document Leak, which is basically a leak that lays out some plans for the Crash franchise for the next five years. That leak includes the N. Sane Trilogy, Nitro-Fueled, Crash 4, Crash on the Run, and most importantly, Crash in Smash 2021. While their isn't too much backing the leak, I actually think this one could possibly be real as Activision sucks at securing leaks, and it would not be surprising if this really is a real leak on our hands.
3. Also, unlike most Western characters discussed as potential characters for Smash, Crash has had pretty big success in Japan, which is important as Smash is a game made by Japanese developers. I would highly recommend giving this video by Canadian Guy Eh a watch, as he goes pretty in depth on just how popular Crash was in Japan.
4. Another thing is that Sakurai has been made a few references to Crash through his Pic of the Days on Twitter. Before anyone says anything, yes, I am 100% aware that not everything Sakurai says is a hint for something, but Sakurai has made hints in the past, so I can't completely say that these can't be hints. We just need to wait and see.
5. Activision has also been really pushing Crash as a video game icon again. He has been getting all sorts of games and promotion lately, and I would be completely shocked if Smash wasn't a thought for both Nintendo and Activision, considering how Activision and even Nintendo sees him as a video game icon.

I listed plenty of other things on my List, but I think these are the really big things going for Crash right now, and I'll be shocked if he doesn't happen at this point.

Want: 100%
Crash is one of my last remaining most wanteds, and I'll be screaming of excitement if it happens. I have so many fond memories of playing Crash games as a kid, and the remakes of his games are some of my favorite games of the 2010's era. Seeing Mario, Sonic and Crash all in the same game together has been a life-long dream of mine, and I completely think Crash has rightfully earned his spot on the roster. Not to mention the fact that I think he would be a fun and wacky character, and I think Crash would really fit in well on the roster, which is why Crash is my most wanted fighter as of right now.
 
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DanganZilla5

Smash Champion
Writing Team
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
2,436
To all of the people that cite Activision as an obstacle to Crash's chances, I would like to point you to this article.


Reggie stated that for the inclusion of Donkey Kong and Bowser in Skylanders, Activision approached Nintendo. Activision thought about Nintendo and they initiated the discussion of this exclusive content. Now they don't look so intimidating to negotiate with, don't they? This goes to show that Activision would be open with Nintendo and they negotiate like any other company.
 

Commander_Alph

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
1,792
In conclusion, just because they are hard to work with on something with another company doesn't mean they will act the same in a different project. It's not rocket science nor a social experiment, everyone does that everyday.
 
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Perkilator

Smash Legend
Writing Team
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Apr 8, 2018
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The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
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Cash Banooca
Chance: 80%

Contrary to popular belief, the supposed cancellation of the Crash cartoon doesn’t spell doom for Crash at all. I think Crash in his most prime to be in Smash; his popularity‘s exploded in recent years.

Want: 100 Wumpa Fruits worth (100%)
YES, YES, YES!
Cash Banooca, along with Sora, is one of my most wanted! I’ve been a huge fan since the N. Sans Trilogy came out, and I’ve been an active Crash supporter ever since.

Abstain on Tracer. I don’t think Blizzard deserves anything after the Blitzchung controversy.

Sora: 35%
Layton: 10%

Noms:
Crazy Dave x5
 

ChunkySlugger72

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
1,834
Crash Bandicoot:

Chance: 75%

The former mascot of Sony's Playstation brand and one of the big and few mainstream characters left and without a doubt the biggest platforming mascot that hasn't made it into Smash, Me personally feels like his ommision would be the most obvious in terms of 3rd party characters for a game like Smash because of his rivalry with Mario and to a lesser extent Sonic, He just absolutely fits in to that "Club" of company/platforming mascots of Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man, Donkey Kong and even Banjo-Kazooie that seem like the focal point of Smash seeing as it's a "Platform Fighter" after all.

He's got a lot going for him, 2017's N.Sane Trilogy and 2019's CTR Nitro Fueled very successfully revived the character and franchise, Both are on Switch and the long awaited follow up "Crash Bandicoot 4": It's About Time" is very likely to get a port sometime this year which could concide with his Super Smash Bros debut.

I just have a hard time believing that the only DLC platforming mascot were gonna get is Banjo-Kazooie.

My biggest concern with him is being a western character, and while Banjo-Kazooie helped break down that barrier, It's still an uphill battle and I can see a scenario where the rest of the pass is catered mostly to Japan even if Crash Bandicoot is one of the few western characters to have actually thrived there in the past and has solid popularity, That being said...

Super Mario vs Sonic the Hedgehog vs Crash Bandicoot absolutely "Needs" to freaking happen.

9cbd704332e90bc32404cac778362b4d.jpg


Want: 85%

While I grew up with the Nintendo 64 and Nintendo consoles in general and wouldn't have it any other way, Outside of my Nintendo bubble, The one console I probably have a decent amount of nostalgia for is the original Playstation and Crash Bandicoot and to a lesser extent Spyro the Dragon are the main reason why, I didn't own a PS1, But I knew people growing up who did and everyone of them had games from the Crash Bandicoot trilogy, So while I mainly gamed on the N64, In a way I still somewhat grew up with the orange marsupial. I also absolutely love platformers and cartoony animal/mascots, Mario, Donkey Kong and Banjo-Kazooie etc, So you can see why I also love Crash Bandicoot as he was pretty much Sony's take on what I already love. I already got my most wanted character in Banjo-Kazooie and 2nd most in King K. Rool and that has left me pretty much 90% satisfied with the roster, But when I look at the roster and character select screen it just feels like something big and obvious is missing and that something currently is my most wanted character Crash Bandicoot.

Tracer

Chance: 15%

While anything can happen, I just don't see Overwatch coming to Smash, While it all comes down to business, I personally feel like from Activision's roster of candidate's Crash Bandicoot has the legacy, seniority and is just the most obvious choice and makes the most sense for a game like Super Smash Bros.

Want: 0%

I don't care or see any appeal in any of Blizzard's side of gaming in terms of my personal taste, Seeing how I am a console gamer and a majority of their output is more PC oriented, Their style of games just aren't my cup of tea and don't grab my attention. Hell I barely even care about Activision's portfolio too and the only reason I even pay any attention to them is because they own both Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon IP's.
 
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SneakyLink

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Activision vs Blizzard? Sounds like a fighting game idea!

Crash Bandicoot (WHOA!)

Chance: 50%
Crash is of course a more recent popular request, especially around base game when N. Sane Trilogy was new on the Switch, being announced the same direct as Smash's first teaser. Of course as time goes on, he seems to have either become more or less likely depending on a variety of factors, but right now, it's all up in the air. For all we know, Crash could get nothing but a Mii Costume or a single event spirit. That said, with Activision willing to cooperate with Nintendo (and having done so in the past) it could go either way

Want: 70%

Although I only recently returned to N. Sane trilogy, I admit the first game is a bit brutal. That said, Crash reminds me of a wacky Looney Tunes character that I feel would work in the zany world of Smash. Then again, the world of Smash has proven anything can work and there are other characters I want more than the Bandicoot, but he'd be a solid choice.

Tracer (Cheers Love! The Calvary's Here!)

Chance: 25%

Coming from the Blizzard side, Overwatch, while still played, is slightly loosing popularity. Part of this is due to other events, but the game has had some questionable choices. As for Tracer herself, the biggest hurdle she has is that one interview where someone from Blizzard said if Nintendo wanted her they'd say yes. That was after Overwatch had released on Switch and after the DLC has likely been finalized.

Want: 90%

The 10% off is because I feel there are better moves wise characters from Overwatch that could work (Sombra's hack in particular could be interesting), but ever since the release window, Overwatch has been one of my favorite games, to the point where I returned to it this past November and can't put it back down. While I am completely unsure how someone from the game could work in Smash while incorporating their abilities, I feel Tracer would provide some unique recovery options (or be aggravating to fight against).
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
[Rerate] Monokuma x315
Qbby x305
Concept: Characters that don't have games on Nintendo platforms x305
Marina Liteyears x280
[Rerate] Neku x279
Beat (Jet Set Radio) x265
Concept: Among Us character x265

250 - 201

Worms x245
Henry Stickmin x235
Mii Costume: Madeline x235
[Rerate] Velvet Crowe x230
Concept: A 4X strategy rep x230
Crazy Dave x225
[Rerate] Concept: League of Legends rep x202

200 - 151

John Marston x180
Peppino (Pizza Tower) x172
Concept: Team Fortress 2 rep x170
Concept: Far Cry rep x164
Tetra x155

150 - 101

Mike Haggar x145
Concept: A 3rd party company gets more than one fighter in the same pass x140
Mii Costume: Monika x135
Zagreus x130
Concept: Curly as Quote's alt/Echo x125
Excitebiker x125
Boss: Ender Dragon x118
D.Va x115
Agent 47 x115
Stage: Bowser's Castle x112
Mii Costume: 2B x110
Boss: Rayquaza x110
Riptor x110
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x108
Concept: A BioShock protagonist x106

100 - 51

Concept: A Challenger Pack with 2 Fighters x100
Concept: Miles Edgeworth as Phoenix Wright's Alt/Echo x100
Estelle Bright x100
Kaede Akamatsu x95

Fulgore x94
Giygas x90
Junpei (Zero Escape) x81

Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x75
Concept: Rocket League rep x75
Echo (Bowser) x70
[Rerate] Concept: New Zelda character x70
Senator Armstrong x70
[Rerate] Concept: Any new Xenoblade character x65
Ghirahim x60
[Rerate] Carmen Sandiego x60
Echo (Olimar) x56
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x55
Gooigi x55
Vi (Bug Fables) x55
Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x55
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x55
Magolor x55
Jin Sakai x55
Rallen (Spectrobes) x55
Trevor Philips x55

50 - 25

Stage: Tetris x50
Billy & Jimmy Lee x50
Ryza (Atelier) x45
Filia (Skullgirls) x31
Mii Costume: Zagreus x25
Concept: Large and Normal Final Destination made into separate stages x25

Under 25

Regigigas x20
[Rerate] Metal Sonic x20
[Rerate] Agumon x20
Yarn Yoshi x15
[Rerate] Shovel Knight x15
[Rerate] Zhao Yun x15
Tetris x10
Slash Kamei (Snowboard Kids) x10
[Rerate] Yuri Lowell x10
Jesse (Control) x10
Infernape x10
[Rerate] Louie x10
Concept: Rocket League content x5
[Rerate] Thrall x5
[Rerate] Lara Croft x5
Stage: Tetris 99 x5
Concept: Raizing shmup rep x5
Donbe and Hikari x5
Soma Cruz x5
Concept: KOS-MOS with T-elos alt x5
[Rerate] Master Hand x5
[Rerate] Arthur x5
Firebrand x1

Concept: Characters that don't have games on Nintendo platforms crosses 300 noms and ties with Qbby for second place. Marina Liteyears shakes past Beat and Neku, landing in fourth place. Concept: Among Us character ties with Beat for sixth.

Concept: League of Legends rep claims 200 noms.

Concept: Team Fortress 2 rep shoots past 150 noms.

Riptor, Agent 47, and Concept: A BioShock protagonist sneak past 100 noms.

Rallen and Trevor Philips steal more than 50 noms each.

Joining the noms list today is a rerate of Louie, with 10 noms.
 

SWSU

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Messages
127
Might as well give this a shot.

Crash Bandicoot:
Chances: 50%

Crash is honestly someone I can see fitting right into Smash Bros, he just has that vibe of... "He just fits in" Which is something I struggle with when it comes to some of the other top tier speculated picks. I feel like the reasons WHY Crash should be in are apparent and Nintendo and Sakurai knows them just as much as we do, its just a matter of do they want him, and was he important enough to be in their Top 6 for this Second Fighters Pass.

At this stage in the game, I don't feel confident ranking anyone higher than 50%, so all of my probabilities are likely going to be on the lower end.

Want: 100%

Want Scores on the other hand. Yeah they can go as high as possible. Crash is probably the last Gaming Icon that feels omitted from Smash at this point, and him getting in just feels right.

Tracer:
Chances: 30%

In the First Fighters Pass, I was higher on their chances, but now that we're entering Fighters Pass 2, I don't feel as confident. If we're getting a FPS Rep, it's going to be from Overwatch, that much I feel confident on. Master Chief Feels Deconfirmed due to Steve, and Doom Slayer, like what I said with Crash... just doesn't really seem to fit in with Smash aesthetically or personalitywise. Tracer I could see the animators having a ton of fun with. But with the Controversy surrounding Blizzard around the time the DLC's were decided, I don't think here odds are great anymore.

Want: 60%

I've never played Overwatch, but she'd def earn her spot in Smash if she did make it in, and if its between her and the other FPS Reps, I think she's the best case scenario. (In my eyes at least)
 

rfarleydude97

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Crash Bandicoot:

Chance - 60%

Crash Bandicoot is one of the most iconic characters of the video game industry from the west and someone who has a pretty good appeal in other markets and one of the most iconic choices left that could be added to Smash Brothers. He is easily one of my top 3 likely choices of who could be in Smash Brothers in the final stretch of this Fighters Pass based on what a character can bring to the table on the moveset and their character legacy.

Want: 100%

As someone who has been a big fan of Crash Bandicoot for majority of my life, it would be really awesome to see my favorite character of all time make it into Smash. Based on the fact that there are 3 slots left and with Crash being one of the most iconic choices left, I would say his chances of being in the game are pretty good based on what he brings to the table. A bit biased I will admit, but here's to hoping he will make it in!

Tracer:

Chance - 5%

Didn't really play much OW as much from before (last time like a few years ago) since my appetite for the game really fizzled out quite a bit and while Tracer is someone we have seen in certain predictions and "leaks", I'm not really someone whose that hyped nor into the idea of her being in Smash.

Want: 0.1%

Not much to say here really, but I could prob see her as a Mii costume more likely then her being in the game as an actual fighter.
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

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Bayonetta but more bri'ish
Chance: 0.25%
Let's not forget about that time the OW devs held a Reddit AMA and brought up Overwatch in Smash. It would've likely broke NDA if it was actually happening. The game also wasn't released on Switch yet by the time the new pass was finalized and while I don't know much about how that version is doing, I believe Nintendo would see it as too recent to make the cut. Tracer being a western FPS rep makes the situation even stricter for he considering the western third-parties we already have. I also just find Crash just way likelier as an Activision rep and don't think Tracer can bring much new to Smash.

Want: 0%

Hong Kong controversy and the state of Blizzard aside, I have no interest in the OW IP. Online games like that aren't my thing and I haven't heard many good things about the community. Furthermore, she's a western third-party competing with my most wanted. I also expressed above that I don't think Tracer would have an interesting moveset. She only has a few abilities to work with in her own game and would be too simillar to characters like Bayo and Zero Suit IMO. I'd imagine her reveal would be recieved very negatively as well which wouldn't be fun in either case.

Also Warcraft better, c'mon now.

Krass Boondifnoof
Chance: 25%
You ever know a character who everybody is predicting to the point you get the gut feeling they might not actually come to fruition? That's basically Crash for me. I get why people are pointing towards him. We all know his positives, he's a gaming icon, made a huge comeback in the last few years, has sold amazingly, even got a brand new installment and has grown to one of, if not the most requested Smash character. Yet people are hyping him up to such extend to the point where the scenario where Crash doesn't keeps sounding more plausible. Not to sound like a pessimist but all it will take is negotiations not working out or Nintendo's priorities lying elsewhere for the Crash dream to shatter. As this pass progresses and with Steve and Sephiroth already behind us I grow more sceptical of Crash considering how the last pass ended. I keep thinking budget theory and how it may not favor characters like Crash. Not to say the final three won't be exciting to people but they probably won't be on Crash's level.

Want: 7.5%
I can respect Crash but all the hype around him can be a little fatiguing to the point where if he actually happens I'll be like "oh well okay". Also again, he's a western third-party. There are very few, if any characters I'd take that would damage my most wanted trifecta.While I'm also not so focussed on movesets as others, I'm not sure Crash would be a very exciting character to play. He spins, slides and slams but that's about it for the most part. Tho perhaps that is just me not being that attached to him.

Sora: 9.46%
Layton: 13.37%
Henry Stickmin x20
 

Lionfranky

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Crash

Chance: 50%

Crash has everything going for him. There is no denying that. I can see point that Nsane trilogy was kinda late to get Nintendo's attention. While Activision worked with Nintendo before, they also cooperated with Sony. Actually, that's where Crash started. Look how they denied PSABR. Sure... Sony was stingy with budget, and Nintendo would most likely shell out more. But, even with history of Skylander cooperation, you never know how inside trade goes. Activision might ask more than they bargained for. There is concern about popularity decline in Japan, but Banjo was worse in that regard. And Crash at peak sold more than Banjo at prime in Japan. So, Crash now sold as many as Halo at peak there. So, I hope people don't use current circumstance later as disadvantage too much. I don't think current popularity/status of Crash and Halo in Japan is night and day difference from look of recent sales. Banjo got less popular in Japan with each installment (Nuts and Bolts anyone? I don't care whatever excuses you bring. The duo still got less popular if we go by sales in Japan.) While I understand all the reasoning, I think his chance is overblown. It's tossup for me.

Want: 50%

I'm largely indifferent to him. I played his game before. I see the charm, but unfortunately, it didn't click for as much as he did to others here. I would be happy for his fans, but the way he gets rated so high kinda rubs me in wrong way. Almost wish Nintendo subverts people's expectation to... Nah, I won't go that far. It's good to see another big icon joining. There is no denying that he perfectly fits Smash aesthetically at least. But, it would be also fresh to miss mark of people's expectation. I'm fine either way.

Tracer

Chance: 3%

It's like Doom developer's interview all over again. It's not some random official twitter account guy who wouldn't have any idea about insider information. It was from Jeff Keflan. He expressed his approval for Tracer in Smash. I think that's fine line on breaking NDA. It's not on level of Grant Kirkhope's misleading. He would simply evaded the question with more vague statement if she was underway. Also, the fact that Nintendo canceled Overwatch event really hinders her chance greatly. People mention how Nintendo worked with Tencent to publish in China as well as working with Konami... but Blitzchung incident was technically far worse offender. Just look at overwhelmingly negative reaction all over the world. It's not comparable. It's entirely plausible that Nintendo wouldn't want to deal with Overwatch with ten foot pole. Still, I think people bringing up Overwatch's decline in popularity in Japan while overlooking the same problem for Crash sound hypocritical. I'

Want: 65%

I've spent good amount of time playing OW with my friends. That's why score is this much. But, I don't want her to take spot of first FPS rep. After that, I will be pretty much cool on her. Some people say her moveset would be boring. Then again, others said Crash would be too basic with few movesets, so I'm not that surprised. She fits aesthetically to Smash with her design and personality. It wouldn't too much trouble for Sakurai to come up with fun moveset and unique gimmick for her.

Nom: Characters that don't have their games on Nintendo platform x 10
3rd party company gets more than one fighter in the same pass x 10
 

Commander_Alph

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Just a minor question, is the Blitzchung incident happened during the tournament of Hearthstone? Why drag Overwatch down with it just because it is also an online game made by Blizzard ori is it because there's a fan art of Mei from Overwatch regarding that controversy? Just asking as isn't Nintendo just now or last year featured something regarding Overwatch in their youtube channel and twitter?
 
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YoshiandToad

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Just a minor question, is the Blitzchung incident happened during the tournament of Hearthstone? Why drag Overwatch down with it just because it is also an online game made by Blizzard ori is it because there's a fan art of Mei from Overwatch regarding that controversy? Just asking as isn't Nintendo just now or last year featured something regarding Overwatch in their youtube channel and twitter?
I think it's more because they announced Overwatch 2 almost straight after they realised the fans were not going to let the Blitzchung incident slide.

Fans saw this as a scumbag move to try and shut their voices up and so Overwatch unfortunately got dragged into this hot mess even further.
 

Commander_Alph

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I think it's more because they announced Overwatch 2 almost straight after they realised the fans were not going to let the Blitzchung incident slide.

Fans saw this as a scumbag move to try and shut their voices up and so Overwatch unfortunately got dragged into this hot mess even further.
I mean that's entirely unrelated and I know what it feel it's just that Overwatch is just a side dish in this controversy and in speculation it is always thought to be the main reason for the controversy, I mean Nintendo doesn't give 2 cent about that controversy and they knew it because it didn't involve Overwatch directly because they knew to back away on a collaboration and luckily Hearthstone isn't on Switch.




In conclusion, treat the Blitzchung incident as a side effect to Overwatch rather than being the main issue.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I mean that's entirely unrelated and I know what it feel it's just that Overwatch is just a side dish in this controversy and in speculation it is always thought to be the main reason for the controversy, I mean Nintendo doesn't give 2 cent about that controversy and they knew it because it didn't involve Overwatch directly because they knew to back away on a collaboration and luckily Hearthstone isn't on Switch.




In conclusion, treat the Blitzchung incident as a side effect to Overwatch rather than being the main issue.
Honestly it always ends up feeling like "I will use literally anything to discredit competition for my favourite who happens to be owned by the same company meaning it should also apply to my favourite but let's agree to ignore that". It's like seeing people go "I WOULD be ok with this but ONLY AFTER exactly what I want so nope it's trash". Just say you don't like it instead of making an excuse
 

Lionfranky

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Honestly it always ends up feeling like "I will use literally anything to discredit competition for my favourite who happens to be owned by the same company meaning it should also apply to my favourite but let's agree to ignore that". It's like seeing people go "I WOULD be ok with this but ONLY AFTER exactly what I want so nope it's trash". Just say you don't like it instead of making an excuse
I was just giving my two cent. The fact that Nintendo canceled Overwatch event was pretty damning though. This is coming from a guy who is sick and tired of Crash getting all the praise and high rating.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I was just giving my two cent. The fact that Nintendo canceled Overwatch event was pretty damning though. This is coming from a guy who is sick and tired of Crash getting all the praise and high rating.
I looked up 'Nintendo cancel overwatch' and all I found was Blizzard shutting down the launch event, do you mean Nintendo allowing refunds like they did with Sword and Shield?
 

SKX31

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I was just giving my two cent. The fact that Nintendo canceled Overwatch event was pretty damning though. This is coming from a guy who is sick and tired of Crash getting all the praise and high rating.
They didn't, however, cancel any other Overwatch stuff, just the event. For me that looks like Nintendo tried to distance itself where the heat was most visible, but not entirely pull back since they might not want to damage relations with A-B.

Well, whoops, see Gwen's response.

Just a minor question, is the Blitzchung incident happened during the tournament of Hearthstone? Why drag Overwatch down with it just because it is also an online game made by Blizzard?
The whole thing got attached to Overwatch partly because Mei became used as a symbol by the protesters. But yeah, it was a Hearthstone tournament and Blitzchung is still a pro player. Tempo Storm - the team that signed him - haven't dropped him.

Now then, I don't think that the incident mattered much at all for Nintendo because (edit, inserted spoilers because it's veering off topic):

A) Nintendo have not moved a finger to sever their contracts with Tencent and NetEase - NetEase was going to release Pokemon Quest in China, but that had seemingly stalled long before the incident. It's important because Activision-Blizzard also have contacts with those two titans: Tencent handles CoD Mobile (as well as CoD Mobile's servers there), NetEase publishes Blizzard's games in China (including Hearthstone).

I'm mentioning those two in particular since, well, Tencent and NetEase are by far the two biggest video game corps in the country. Those two do fight with each other, other corps and the Chinese state from time to time (it's messier than it initially looks), but the connections are many and solid too. And the Chinese state's policies in the late 90s indirectly ensured those two megacorps could rise.

Tencent's origin as a social media corp and NetEase's initial successes with MMOs point to one major reason they're so big. Tencent's as big as Facebook, NetEase's as big as Spotify by the by. Both those two corps have vast ad networks and have built rock-solid foundations for marketing and keeping games going. Nintendo's President Furukawa alluded to this:

“The reason for our collaboration with Tencent is because they hold one of the largest positions in China’s network communication and game marketplaces, which we think will allow us to maximize the expansion of our business there. In the past, our dedicated video game systems like Nintendo DS and Nintendo 3DS were sold in China under the brand of our consolidated subsidiary, iQue (China) Ltd., but we cannot say these were a great success.”
He's not kidding: Tencent owns and operates two huge social media platforms: QQ and WeChat; WeChat's Mainland Chinese version is a super-app of sorts that does everything (as long as one follows the government's regulations and don't question things openly in the name of social stability). NetEase is not a social media corp themselves, but regardless have an extremely strong presence within the country.

B) Really, Nintendo only care that much about a couple of political things over the medium / long term: tariffs (they have exited countries like Brazil in the past due to that), laws regarding IP protection and access to their consoles. Otherwise they often don't care to show their hand publicly because it's seen as contrary to Nintendo's family friendly image.
 
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Lionfranky

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I looked up 'Nintendo cancel overwatch' and all I found was Blizzard shutting down the launch event, do you mean Nintendo allowing refunds like they did with Sword and Shield?
I guess I misremembered. Yeah, it was Blizzard who did it. Still, the atmosphere around the event was pretty huge and dark. That forced even US congress to attack Blizzard. Even Nintendo should be aware of that. Yeah, taking down Mei statue from the store didn't help either.
 

YoshiandToad

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WHOA! WHOA! WHOOOAAAA!
Chance: 50%

I'm honestly not sure anymore. On the one hand Crash SEEMED like the obvious choice given his previous status as the PlayStation mascot and his recent successful revival in Crash N. Sane Trilogy and the Crash Team Racing Nitro Fueled seemed to bring him back to some of the highs he felt in the 90s.

However Activision have been known to be a pain in the butt to work with, Sakurai's stated it's difficult to work with western developers in the past and I'm really not 100% sure where I stand with the legitamacy of the cartoon pilot.
I've worked in the animation industry and have worked alongside disgruntled animators and a lot of the stupid aspects of it including the usage of Mario in the Crash cartoon is something I've experienced similar to with scant regard for intellectual property UNLESS it's their IP being infringed.

Crash 4 didn't do particularly great but that was long after the Fighters Pass was decided.

I remember stating last time about how difficult they were allegedely to work with to the point they demanded more money for Crash and Spyro's inclusions in Playstation All Stars than the entire budget

Want: 75%
I'll admit it, I'm more of a Spyro fan than I am a Crash fan, but I'm also not an idiot. Spyro has no presence in Japan and it's one of the worst regional ports of any game I've ever seen. Crash meanwhile did pretty well for a western IP, and is the one Activision are pushing super hard.

It'd be super cool to see Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash (vs. Steve/Banjo I guess for Microsoft) in Smash, of course it would be. This is more than just Crash himself, it's the faces of the consoles coming together and clashing.

Unfortunately Crash for me wasn't quite the massive childhood influence that Mario and Sonic was or even his little buddy Spyro, and Activision managed to annoy me with their microtransaction fiasco with Nitro Fueled which actively put me off buying the game in the end.

I'd still be happier to see Crash than not though.

Cheers Luv!
Chance: 10%

Thinking back a few years ago, Overwatch took over the world.
Tracer is the face of the game(and likely Overwatch 2 too) and would be the defacto choice should Nintendo wish to dip their toes in to Overwatch.

The only downside is Nintendo kind of missed the golden age of Overwatch fever, launching a year and a half after the peak of the excitement, and dedicated Overwatch fans having had three years to pick their console of choice to play the game on.

With Overwatch 2 on the way I can see the appeal for Blizzard to push Tracer, particularly because it seems to also be coming to Switch...hopefully earlier than the previous game did.

Want: 20%
Eh...I respect the game but Overwatch never gelled with me.

I'm a Team Fortress 2 kinda guy, and the buzz around Overwatch being the "Team Fortress killer" got both tedious and turned out to be bull**** because TF2 is still thriving today, but god damn it was annoying. The two games can easily co-exist and honestly they fill different niches despite being both team based shooter games. Overwatch actually focuses far more on team work than the one with team in it's name.

However; Tracer herself is actually a pretty interesting character with a cool look, fun personality and some neat abilities. As a Brit I will say, it's nice to see some of the luverly cockney accent in gaming.

She's about the only Overwatch character I'd be okay with but she's also not one I'm going to rush out and purchase myself. Now if Heavy got released? Ho boy, I'd be buying the entire Fighters Pass based off him alone.
 
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Opossum

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Crash time.

Chance: 50%
There are three slots left, but honestly...I can only see Crash being Challenger Pack 10, specifically. If they're adding him I think they'd use a big event like E3, and since 9 is likely in March and 11 in the fall, E3 2021 lines up well for 10. It's then or never as far as I'm concerned.

Want: 100%
My most wanted third party, and most wanted in general that hasn't been disconfirmed. I'd be ecstatic if he got in.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Ok not getting completely tinfoily but why is Crash in this ad instead of something like Luigi's Mansion 3 or Mario Odyssey? And why is it only Activision third parties (and Mario and Sonic but like that has Mario in it) getting pushed in this?
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
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10,169
Sonic's ass

Chance: 20%
Like Dante, I think Crash has been one of the most overrated characters in Ultimate DLC speculation.

For the positives: from a fan's perspective he makes all the sense in the world! Iconic, successful, worldwide popularity, fits right into Smash, would be pretty hype, is relevant, is on Nintendo consoles, etc. I get why people would see Crash as a frontrunner.

Now for why I think he isn't that likely: most of those points in his favor have major asterisks. His relevance was a known factor when the pass was crafted, but Nintendo had no way to know whether Crash would stick around after the remakes. Obviously Activision isn't going to share stuff about their upcoming games with Nintendo before they agree to feature Crash in Smash, so the existence of Crash 4 had no bearing in his inclusion. Crash is also apparently not doing as hotly as he used to in Japan, performing, from what I gather, like an above-average Western title instead of the hit he used to be over there. Crash's current popularity came too late for it to have been taken into account. And Crash 4 is somehow still not on the Switch, which to me is the most damning evidence against him. Does that look like two companies who have a close relationship? Would we really have no word on a Crash 4 port in 2021 if Crash had been set to join Smash since 2019? Bottom line is, like Dante, he's a character that makes a lot of sense to have in Smash, but when I look at him through Nintendo's eyes I don't find much of a reason to choose him. If it were Sakurai I'd be much more confident.

Now I guess I should mention the many leaks about him (which I always find a red flag, since we haven't gotten leaks about actual fighters for a long while). The cartoon thing I think is real, well, the pilot at that. The part about Activision being hard to work with is believable, but I have no reason to believe extends to Activision working with other gaming companies like Nintendo, and even then it's all unverified. The 5 year plan seems like an obvious fake, the part about Crash in Smash clearly piggybacking on the previous 5 year plan leak. Even if real there's no guarantee that Nintendo would have agreed, we all know what happened to Doomguy. As for the one that also has Reimu and KOS-MOS... C'mon, is that really worth giving the time of day to? For one, it has KOS-MOS, but also it reads like a collage made out of previous fake leaks.

All in all, I think it's not his time yet. There's only one place where I think he'd even make sense and that's E3 but even then, I think he's too big not to have been released halfway through the Pass.

Want: 100%
I would be glad to be wrong, Crash would be an amazing character to have in Smash. I love most Crash games, even the bad ones, there's something simple yet satisfying about the gameplay that always grabs me. And that's without getting into the spin-offs, I spent a huge chunk of my childhood playing Crash Tag Team Racing on repeat. Crash would be, if nothing else, zany and hilarious, and for that alone I think he'd be a very worthwhile addition. Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash? Who could say no to that?

The plot of Tenet

Chance: 0%
I don't know why we're rating her, she's disconfirmed. Devs spoke about wanting her in Smash so, uh, she's dead.

Want: 95%
I'm all for having modern icons in Smash. I'm talking about the ones that were huge and that you know are going to have a big impact down the line. The likes of 2B, Geralt, Aloy, and of course, the Inklings and Joker. And Tracer, like many of the cast of Overwatch, is undoubtedly iconic. Overwatch was a very well received and influential game, even if its fanbase has found many things to complain about throughout its evolution as a game. I'm not into competitive multiplayer games as a whole so I'm just here for the characters. As a character Tracer seems like she'd be fun to play as in Smash, it would take a lot of balancing to properly translate her skills into a fighting game but I think it can be done. She has a fun personality and mannerisms. And, well, she'd be a giant step forward for representation and I think to have her in Smash would help validate those kinds of decisions, especially in Japanese game making where they're still lagging.

Noms: Marina x10 47 x10
Sora prediction: ooo this oughta be interesting. Will he escape the wrath of Sephiroth? 40.91%
Prof prediction: I expect the current (and highly exaggerated) news of Level-5's woes to tank his scores (even though it doesn't make sense timing-wise!) 15.68%
 

chocolatejr9

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Ok not getting completely tinfoily but why is Crash in this ad instead of something like Luigi's Mansion 3 or Mario Odyssey? And why is it only Activision third parties (and Mario and Sonic but like that has Mario in it) getting pushed in this?
Stupid question, but is there a Japanese version of this trailer? I saw somebody mention this was made specifically for the West, which would explain why Spyro, who may as well not exist as far as Japan's concerned, is here.
 

TCT~Phantom

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Stupid question, but is there a Japanese version of this trailer? I saw somebody mention this was made specifically for the West, which would explain why Spyro, who may as well not exist as far as Japan's concerned, is here.
Just skimmed the Japanese youtube and doesnt seem like it. That being said, I still find it really really weird that Mario Odyssey and LM3 are not on here. This ad is certainly far from decisive evidence or anything, but it is weird.
 

chocolatejr9

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Just skimmed the Japanese youtube and doesnt seem like it. That being said, I still find it really really weird that Mario Odyssey and LM3 are not on here. This ad is certainly far from decisive evidence or anything, but it is weird.
If we're lucky, Odyssey 2 is finally coming...

Or maybe a Japanese version will come later. Hard to say.
 

SpectreJordan

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Crash Bandicoot:

Chance: 50%


I have mixed feelings about Crash’s chances. I think he has a decent shot at getting in. But so many people think that he’s a sure thing, it make me scared they’ll be heavily burned when Ultimate wraps things up.

In my opinion, Crash is one of the three biggest video game characters not in Smash yet (the other two being Master Chief & Lara Croft). He’s a gaming legend, whose reveal would be huge. The reasons he’s so iconic have been explained countless times, so I won’t repeat them. His inclusion would make waves & sell a ton. It would further the goal of making this game the Ultimate gaming crossover.

In addition to that, Activision has been fairly supportive of the Switch. Many of their biggest franchises have landed on it: Crash, Overwatch, Diablo, Skylanders & Spyro. It’s really only Call of Duty who’s missing (Warcraft/Starcraft are PC only so they don’t count). They’ve even been offering free trials of their games on the Switch. So I could see Nintendo wanting to further their relationship with Activision by using Smash.

But at the same time, Activision is the reason I’m so skeptical of Crash’s inclusion. Activision is a notoriously controversial company. In particular, it doesn’t seem like they want to play with others off of their own turf. Skylanders had Donkey Kong/Bowser & Call of Duty’s had various crossovers; but as far as I know, an Activision IP has never crossovered into an outside IP.

On top of that, it’s come out recently that many major entertainment companies avoid working with Activision. This comes after Netflix had a falling out with Activision over the Skylanders cartoon & more recently Amazon with a canceled Crash cartoon.

This aligns closely with things MaximillianDood (who has various contacts in the industry) said about the PlayStation AllStars devs trying to work with Activision. He claimed that Activision wanted ridiculous things.

Now if anyone is able to get Activision under control, I do think it’d be Sakurai & the Smash team. As they’ve essentially been miracle makers during Ultimate’s development. But I have severe doubts about Crash’s chances.

Want: 100%

Crash is one of my most wanted characters. I really love the Gaming All-Stars aspect of Smash & I feel his inclusion would strengthen that. I also feel he’d have a very fun moveset, even if it was “basic”. He just feels like he belongs in Smash.

Tracer:

Chance: 15%


Tracer has even more going against her than Crash. Alongside all of the Activision shenanigans I mentioned earlier, Tracer’s essentially been straight up disconfirmed by Overwatch’s head. Now there is a chance that he was lying because of NDAs, but I really doubt it.

If it wasn’t for that comment, I’d have rated her higher. Overwatch has been one of the most popular games of the past 5 years. It’s dying down a bit in popularity, but I think Overwatch 2 will reignite things. I could see Tracer being a similar pick to Joker; a modern face that’s made a huge splash.

I feel the Overwatch characters & world would fit in really well with Smash too. The overall tone of that game is a lot more lighthearted than your normal shooter.

Want: 85%

Overwatch is my favorite game of the past generation. It’s my second most played game of all-time, though it’s been a while since I last played. So I’d be super happy if Tracer or any other OW character got in. Though, I’d be a bit miffed if she was Smash’s first FPS character; I feel Master Chief & Doom Slayer deserve that spot a lot more.
 

Blankiturayman

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459
Kurasshu

Chance: 25%

A character that was once pretty big, fell to the sidelines for a time, and then returned triumphantly in the modern days. He certainly can happen, I understand feeling certain about it as well due to his pedigree, which goes without saying. I'm just not entirely sure of it. He's not particularly lacking: has had games on Nintendo for a while, and definitely is a big character. I also don't feel Activision would block his way that much, given they've collaborated with Nintendo often either by putting their games on their consoles or stuff like the Skylanders games having Nintendo characters with figures included. If anyone can get through whatever ordeals Activision provides it's the Smash team.

While all this is great, I don't feel he's got an extremely great chance compared to other characters Nintendo could want, his case is essentially that he's an iconic character and it could help Nintendo get better relations with Activision, which is all well and good, but still. You could also argue Crash's demographic wouldn't expand too much with his inclusion, but I doubt that'd be putting a damper on him much. All in all I think he's got a good shot but definitely not guaranteed. I could see him being revealed in a big event given his pedigree but who knows.

Want: 90%
Count me in, I love the Crash games. I've been playing them for years now, and while he's not at the top of my wants I'd still be pretty happy to see him. My personal favorite is Twinsanity, and out of the original trilogy, Warped. The GBA games are great as well from what I recall, surprisingly so since they were just GBA 2D games. Either way, it's a fun character who I definitely know so it'd be great.

Abstaining on Tracer, don't know enough about her or Overwatch.

Nominations:
Estelle Bright x10

Predictions:
Sora: 14%
Layton: 7%
 

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
1,045
Location
ZE BATH
Crashworth Cortex I:

Oh boy, this one is really interesing.

To put this into perspective, here is my previous rating:
Abstaining on STD today.

El Giros.

Chance: 50%

Like Steve, he's the most likely guest not called Hayabusa in Smash. Crash, like Steve is probably one of the few "western" (specifically American in this case) video game characters whose franchise actually managed to get a following in Japan, thanks to Sony's marketing at the time. While he has fallen off the wayside over there in popularity (ESPECIALLY compared to Steve), he is still a major gaming icon in the rest of the world who has recovered thanks to the remasters of his PS1 games (minus Crash Bash) and even is getting a brand new game following the classic formula!

"bb-b-b-b-BUT IT'S NOT COMING ON SWITCH!"...................and? Persona's mainline games will never come to a Nintendo game and we still got Ren. No don't give me the Q2 bull**** excuse, because Crash's Main games (the original ones that made him the star he is) are on the Switch, again, thanks to the remasters. Also let's face it, Crash 4 will come to the Switch. It will just take a few months to be announced (probably next year assuming 2020 doesn't get worse)

Honestly i can't give any argument against him. Not Nintendo centric? That honestly was never an issue (it's just a fan-rule that never a had a leg to stand on, but i understand why people would want it to be that way, i would rather have Bomberman and Layton over Joker and Cloud) Remember the third party ever shown wasn't Mega Man or Banjo or even Pac-Man, it was SNAKE. Then we got Cloud and Joker. Dead Franchise? Was revived thanks to the N.Sane Trilogy, and the likes of Banjo got in anyway. Non-Japanese Third Party? again, Banjo.

Also, like Sonic, after the 6th generation he started to become a multi-platform mascot with 2 brand exclusive GBA games that were very faithful to his previous adventures (and probably are better than Wrath........) so he really stopped being a Sony Mascot after the PS2 era. Crash has given more support on Nintendo consoles than some of the Guests already in Smash or even some that people proclaim that should be in Smash.

It should also be mentioned that Crash's support in Smash was nonexistent in Brawl or Smash 4, but started to become a thing in Ultimate. Namely due the Crash N. Sane Trilogy Switch port beign announced in the Same Direct as Smash Ultimate (back then not titled). While his support and outcry likely did not affect the development process of the base game nor even Fighter Pass 1, it COULD make a difference for Fighter Pass 2. I wouldn't be surprised if Activision took note of this and went for Nintendo to negotiate for Crash in Smash to get at least SOME positive PR out of this, which is probably one of the reasons why Microsoft even bothered to give Banjo to Sakurai, i don't think we would have gotten Banjo in Smash if that Tweet to Phil Spencer never happened, and the reaction was extremely positive attention for Microsoft too (especially the shoutout Sakurai gave to the Xbox One in Japan) seeing how Activison is getting his ass handed as early as the Skylander Days, giving Sakurai the opportunity to use Crash would be a surefire to get some positive attention for once.

The only reason that i think Crash would not get in, is that Sakurai usually doesn't work with Foreign Companies. It's not that Sakurai hates American Gaming or non-japanese gaming as a whole (if anything he is one of the more open "westaboo" gamers out there) but rather working with a non-japanese company is not the norm for him (language and cultural barriers and ****) so it may make it difficult.

Want: 100%

I usually DO have a bias towards Third Parties who have a strong brand association with Nintendo, if Not Nintendo characters in general, but you know what my bigger bias is? Childhood.

Back when i was young Chilean Lad, i got a Ps1 with Crash's PSX classic Trilogy. Despite me sucking at it (and never beating them due to not having a memory card), i can't lie and i have to admit, i loved them. I always got my hand on any Crash games no matter how sucky they were. Nitro Kart, WoC, Twinsanity, even that crappy Beat em Up where Crash got Titans and ****. Crash was my childhood. In fact, way back in the days before Smash 4 was even formally annoucned to the public, i used to daydream about what characters could be in Smash. Crash was one of them. As soon as the N.Sane Trilogy was announced i hoped anxiously for it, and got it on Switch on its release day and beat them with the best endings, finally fulfilling the dream i ever so desired. I would later also buy and enjoy Nitro Fueled (before selling it because im an idiot) and for all intents and purposes, my passion for Crash has awaken again. Crash is one of gaming childhood darlings, next to Mega Man. He's the reason i always associate the Square Button with Attack and Cross (not X, Cross) Button with Jump. Even with its not a Playstation Controller i still have this control shceme in my brain. To say Crash left an Impression on me would be an understatement.

That's not to say im a hardcore fan, no. But i hold Crash in my heart, and i never realize it. I have been more passionate about others like Simon, K.Rool, Dixie, Bandana Dee, Waluigi etc. But none of them hold the same impact as Crash did to me. He didn't need Smash to do that, and still doesn't need it.

It's always been like this for me. Im not gonna be so upset if Crash doesn't make it, but i would be really happy to see him. I think he deserves it. His best outings are now avaliable to Nintendo players, platforming mascots still hold a place in the minds of many, and Sonic got to finally fight the mascot he was meant to compete against in Smash after getting games like the Sonic Advance Trilogy, Sonic Rush 1 and 2, Sonic Colors and so on. It's Crash turn now.

Woah indeed.
As you can see, i was really optimistic regarding him, and im still on that bank.

-Crash's major obstacles are almost all clear. No PS characters? Cloud and Joker? No western Third Parties? Banjo and Steve. speaking of that.

-Crash has never better been positioned as a franchise than now. He is booming in the gaming landscape right now, and while not super selling COD at any rate, it's pretty clear Activision is putting him in the spotlight real hard and the franchise hasn't seen better exposure since its beggining in the Universal/Naughty Dog era, it's a renaissance at this point. The Entire Trilogy has been remastered on all modern consoles (including the Switch) its has a Spin-Off that is went from an HD remaster to its own beast, and a brand new game that recieved Critical Acclaim from everyone (minus the Completionist camp) There were even plans to make a Crash Animated series by Amazon, but the deal fell through, wouldn't surprise me if they tried again later on. This isn't a long gone franchise that lives in cameos like Xenosaga, or Darkstalkers, this is an A-lister or at least a B Plus lister as of now for all im concerned. It helps that Nintendo would have interest in supporting Crash as a franchise. It's been on Nintendo systems for over a decade since the GBA, with only Twinsanity missing the boat so far (but was intended to come in the GC) and im fully confident Crash 4 is coming to the Switch.

-Crash was actually popular in Japan. Crash was one of the few game series in that country that actually managed to find success there, all thanks to Sony marketing the hell out of him, and being given proper localization to fit in better with the region, and they succeeded. Crash is still one of the few frachises over there that have saw success outside of Minecraft. Yes, Crash is no longer that popular in Japan anymore (thanks to generational graphics evolving and exposing Crash as the wide-grin big-teeth Looney Tunes-like creature he is, and Japan has always been "Kawaii or Die" so it doesn't go that well with them, plus the N.Sane Trilogy is clearly based on the Western versions so the nostalgia appeal does not work there) But the fact that Crash was even popular there at one point in time at all speaks volumes to me, and already makes him more likely in my eyes than any western character possible as of now. Not only that, but Japan has had influence in Crash as a franchise thanks to its popularity. The Crash Dance, Penta the Penguin, and even the whole "Tawna left Crash to date Pinstripe lore" all originated from Japanese media, and were directly ported to Crash worldwide lore (minus the Tawna part, maybe) and even influenced the creation of FAKE CRASH, and would later develop a game for Crash, Crash Boom Bang by Dimps of Sonic Advance fame (it sucks, but still worth mentioning) i don't think i need to mention his worlwide popularity because..............you already know, him. Brits love him (CYOAR) Americans love him, Latinamericans love him (The Crash 4 LATAM dub trailer has more views than the original english one) and so forth. It perplexes me that people give high chances to characters that never made a single success outside of Japan and are only NOW attempting to try for that international pie, or characters that are basically invisible to the human eye and are only playable in their native languague via FAN PATCHES, or characters that are sort of popular in the West but are nobodies in Japan. Yet Crash, a character that is for all intents and purposes a worldwide icon, that has managed to appear in all mainstream regions for years even in his dark ages, is somehow unlikely? Bull, i call bull. The only games that weren't localized in Japan were the Titans games which...............yeah they are not missing much. There are even ESSAYS about Crash's worldwide popularity.

-Crash is requested. Nothing much to say here. He is popular both outside and inside the "Smash Bubble". moving on.


Is there any real thing against Crash? Yes there is two, or three depending on how you look at it.

-The first is Activision. No its not because "Activision Bad", because if you have seen Nintendo for the last couple of years it should stick to your brain that COMPANIES ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND, and Nintendo collaborating with Kona-**** You Kojima-Mi and Square "no just because you put Sephiroth doesn't mean im gonna leave you off the hook-Enix proves is that if Nintendo sees benefit in the collaboration, they would do it. It's because they are a western company, and not its' not because "MUH EVIL GAIJIN COMPANY" either, but rather that international collaborations like this take time, probably a lot. Just look at Steve, who was stated to have been in the Negotiations for 5 YEARS. It's this point that brings my to my next issue.

-Timing. Crash's revival has done wonders for the Orange Marsupial Mutant, but one has to wonder...............did he arrive too late? Smash Rosters are planned well in advance before the game even starts development, and outside of Clones last minute choices are not a thing. When looking in hindsight, it was really stupid to think Crash was going to be in the base game. The franchise was JUST getting its foot back into the game, and trying to ape a Third Party franchise that was basically still on recovery into Smash was a risky move, maybe if Crash started gaining steam back in '13 or '14 my stance would change, but the franchise basically became important again after Smash Ultimate's Planning stages were complete and realistically could only apply for Smash's DLC line up by that point. FP1 made a little more sense by then, but still. It's only FP2 that seems that Crash really stands a chance, but now arises another issue.

-Crash is big, is huge, is popular, and recognizable. He would be an easy sell for the Pass and one of the headliners...............you think you would start the Pass with Someone like HIM. This is the big issue i have. Look at Smash 4, almost all of the hype choices were in the start or middle. Mega Man as the second newcomer revealed, Pacman right around E3 '14 hype, and..........Duck Hunt Dog as the last Base Newcomer reveal. Same goes for DLC, Opened with ****ing Mewtwo, followed by RYU FROM STREET FIGHTER and ends with........Corrin from FE Fates (and Bayo i guess....) BASE ULTIMATE! STARTS with RIDELY FOLLOWED BY THE BELMONTS AND K.ROOL.........and then goes to Isabelle, to Ken, an iconic character, but basically a Clone Character, and they always tend to be given smaller spotlight, which is evident since he shared his trailer with Incineroar (PP is right around the middle of Base Game and DLC) FP1 starts with Joker, followed by the likes of Banjo, and ends with........Byleth.......

It's this reason i just don't see Crash as a shoo-in. Crash is a character that should have been announced by now if im honest. You don't save him for last or even penultimate. Now granted, depending on your view, Terry either counts as a really hype and important and iconic character..........or a really niche one that was a sign of the disappointing finale to come (it should be noted that just like Crash, SNK as a whole was making a come back in the mid to late Twenty Tens and Start of the new Twenties thanks to the likes of KOF XIV and the new Samurai Showdown game, although being of Japanese origin and making their comeback a few years earlier definitely helped) so maybe Crash can still come in as the next Character.

With all of this, i give Crash a:

40% Chance.


Crash has received a hit. He has all the merits Sakurai looks for a character. Popular, requested, could bring an audience from a franchise not in Smash as of now, has made a presence all round the globe on multiple entries on multiple systems, and would easily be a favorite choice that would please many.

However, the circumstances are not in his favor. Western Characters are possible, but it takes a huge a mount of planning to do so, and Activision hasn't collaborated with Sakurai in Smash as of now (that we know of) in any form, so they don't have their foot already on the door like say, Koei Tecmo. Plus, Crash is a character that could have easily been the Game Awards reveal, and to be that spot be taken by Sephiroth instead leaves him in sort of a dire situation, where he once seemed too big to fail, now he seems too big to be left on what is essentially the bottom of the totem pole of reveals, and because of this if he doesn't appear as Fighter Number 9, im convinced it's too late for him and will not be playable, and be something like a Mii Costume at best, or Spirit at worst. The likes of Hayabusa, Arle and Lloyd may be more niche worldwide, but come from Japanese Companies that already have their footing in Smash that makes negotiations easier, plus they are among Smash Disscussion just like Crash and are all in healthy conditions (except maybe Ryu) so for that reason i can't give him a chance higher than any of these 3.

Still for now, it's possible Sakurai may just be wanting to start this year with a Bang with Crash.

For want? Still the same: 100%

I already posted why Crash is my childhood icon, i don't think i need to do it again. Love this fella, and even if he is not playable, im just glad we can talk about Crash in a PRESENT tense, as in he is back to relevance again, and that makes me happy.

Abstaining on Tracey, but i don't think it should suprise you too much that if i were to rate her, i would give her the good ol'e One Chane and Zero Want score, but im not gonna rate a character that quite frankly i couldn't be arsed to research or care about.
 

Commander_Alph

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
1,792
Mr. Crash

Chances: 60%

I can't seem to come up on an argument against him when everyone is clapping and cheering and chanting every possible second which influence my opinion and I hate it. I can't argue about Activision being hard to work with just because they are hard to work with on an animation project which is just a petty excuse. We already knew that with his recent revival his popularity quickly skyrocketed high in the air like he used to in the old days and I don't blame him. The N Sane Trilogy and Crash 4 sold incredibly high but that doesn't really determine him more likely than the other.

Want: 90%

But, if you ask me if I want him or not it's a big fat yes for me, I didn't really grew up with Crash as I only play Crash 3 and Crash Tag Team Racing which actually trigger my nostalgia and after watching Caddicarus several video on Crash's multitude of game I can't help but appreciate how far he has gone till today. Don't care if his moveset just have him spin all I want is my boi back.





Mrs. Tracer

Chances: 30%

No, this is not an act of pity just because everyone has a heavy bias on Crash that they will carelessly trampling her, and possibly Spyro, just because for them it's unrealistic of them to jump over Crash because "hE iS tHe OnLy LoGiCaL pIcK" which is dumb so, shut the **** up (excluding RTC).

For godsake Overwatch is a massive multiplayer
FPS game in recent years but has since died down a bit after the hype. Really Smash hasn't really tapped into or even include an Esports game, which is a big gaming event and somewhat important in the history video game, while LoL is a big contender so does Overwatch but a little small. Though I gotta say considering that Nintendo is in collaboration with Tencent to tap into the Chinese market it would be a great opportunity for them to add Tracer but like I said the chances of her make it in is relatively small compare to someone like Ahri who's game actually created by Tencent themselves. No, the Blitzchung incident didn't make her unlike because it occurred on a Hearthstone tournament not Overwatch, and if we really want to play by that rule Activision also have been affected because they are now merge together (ironic isn't it) but I guess it only affected games that only created by Blizzard.



Want: 30%

That's pretty high for me who doesn't even play FPS game, to be specific Overwatch. She has a charming personality and a fun gimmick in her game which will be blast for that to translate into Smash.

Noms:
Danganronpa protagonist ×10
 
Last edited:

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,412
Mr. Crash

Chances: 60%

I can't seem to come up on an argument against him when everyone is clapping and cheering and chanting every possible second which influence my opinion and I hate it. I can't argue about Activision being hard to work with just because they are hard to work with on an animation project which is just a petty excuse. We already knew that with his recent revival his popularity quickly skyrocketed high in the air like he used to in the old days and I don't blame him. The N Sane Trilogy and Crash 4 sold incredibly high but that doesn't really determine him more likely than the other.

Want: 90%

But, if you ask me if I want him or not it's a big fat yes for me, I didn't really grew up with Crash as I only play Crash 3 and Crash Tag Team Racing which actually trigger my nostalgia and after watching Caddicarus several video on Crash's multitude of game I can't help but appreciate how far he has gone till today. Don't care if his moveset just have him spin all I want is my boi back.





Mrs. Tracer

Chances: 30%

No, this is not an act of pity just because everyone has a heavy bias on Crash that they will carelessly trampling her, and possibly Spyro, just because for them it's unrealistic of them to jump over Crash because "hE iS tHe OnLy LoGiCaL pIcK" which is dumb so, shut the **** up (excluding RTC).

For godsake Overwatch is a massive multiplayer
FPS game in recent years but has since died down a bit after the hype. Really Smash hasn't really tapped into or even include an Esports game, which is a big gaming event and somewhat important in the history video game, while LoL is a big contender so does Overwatch but a little small. Though I gotta say considering that Nintendo is in collaboration with Tencent to tap into the Chinese market it would be a great opportunity for them to add Tracer but like I said the chances of her make it in is relatively small compare to someone like Ahri who's game actually created by Tencent themselves. No, the Blitzchung incident didn't make her unlike because it occurred on a Hearthstone tournament not Overwatch, and if we really want to play by that rule Activision also have been affected because they are now merge together (ironic isn't it) but I guess it only affected games that only created by Blizzard.



Want: 30%

That's pretty high for me who doesn't even play FPS game, to be specific Overwatch. She has a charming personality and a fun gimmick in her game which will be blast for that to translate into Smash.

Noms:
Laharl ×10
Just a head's up, I don't think Laharl has a support thread. You might have to make one before nominating him.
 
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