Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[fogbadge]

A question for everyone, since we made the distinction in the scores. Do you think AoC's Impa getting the shaft also means regular Impa is disconfirmed? Or does she still have a fighting chance since she's technically a base game Spirit?

This event also puts a big question mark on BotW Zelda, who we've also rated. She's absent from this event, and it's specifically for Age of Calamity and not Breath of the Wild 2. But on the other hand it takes out easy candidates for her Spirit Board. Questions, questions...

im gonna second the idea that we wont get impa

as for botw zelda well i suppose occum's razor probably cause she a spirit in the base game

 

[3DSNinja]

the devil may cry series
Chance: 25%: He is a huge capcom representative, and the Devil May Cry series just appeared on Nintendo. As well, he's one of Capcom's biggest icons and DMCV was beloved. But, he definently has a couple of issues beyond that, namely being that Capcom has a ton of other characters and franchises that have been far more inmportant to Nintendo then Dante has been. As well, the timing could have easily screwed him over, as we don't know if FP2 was decided before the annoucement of the DMC ports.
Want: 100%: Dante has always been a character I've loved, and him getting in Smash would be great. He's one of my favorite characters in the MVC series, and giving him style switching and making a characters who's super flashy and fun to play sounds like a ton of fun. I don't care if he's broken, he'll still be awesome as hell! So yes, put Dante in! Also, Devil May Cry music in Smash. Just. .DMC music in Smash.
The Turnabout King
Chance: 45%: Phoenix has a ton going for him, more then against. He's popular, easily one of the most popular Capcom suggestions for Smash. He's important, being the Visual Novel to prove that they could be viable and in general being a popular franchise. Objection is famous for this reason. As well, he has a huge Nintendo history, having every single one of his game start out exclusive to a Nintendo console and all of them have appeared on a Nintendo system. As well, he's been in Marvel vs. Capcom before, proving that he can work in a fighting game format. being the most popular Capcom suggestion, as well as having a big annivesary next year and having a huge Nintendo history is all a huge benefit for Mr. Wright.
Want: 100%: Yes, I'd love Ace Attorney in the game. His moveset could be creative and interesting, the stage could be awesome, his designs could be neat. .As well, there's a ton of characters that could make great spirits, and that would be awesome. As well, the music is a bop, and getting some of the Pursuit themes, the Objection themes, Great Revival, etc. . .There's a ton of incredible content here. And Ace Attorney is one of my favorite Visual Novels ever, so getting it in the game would be awesome. Yes, please put this in here.
lol no
Chance: 5%: I really don't think it's happening. Namely for a few reasons. 1, the Imram leak about Byleth being based off a scrapped character. The only character that could really fit the bill and overlaps with Byleth is Monster Hunter. As well, Monster Hunter is more popular to be represented through the monsters, not the playable Avatars. The Monster Hunter team hated the character in Infinite, and they didn't get in Marvel 3 for that reason. And the final reason is that Monster Hunter is already in the game. Yes, there could be more representation added, but I don't get why you would add it to the game in base only to add the playable fighter later in DLC pass 2. That just. .doesn't feel right to me at all. Good thing too, because. .
Want:20%: I'm not a fan of them getting in. Don't get me wrong, Monster Hunter is fine, but. .there's so many other Capcom franchises I want more. Final Fight, Darkstalkers, Bionic Commando, Resident Evil, Ghosts n Goblins, Gargoyle's Quest, Strider, Captain Commando, Viewitful Joe, Okami, Asura, and many more are all far greater priorities to me. As well. .I'm not a huge fan of generic avatars. And the fact that their moveset could be similar to Byleth, a moveset that I despise in Smash Bros, would definently be something that I wouldn't be happy about. So, I am not a big fan of Monster Hunter. Sorry.
Nominations: Peppino x30.

 

[Louie G.]

aparently, the Monster Hunter developpers still don't want the Hunters to represent the series, as it seems that the Hunter in MvCI did not do much to change their minds

The Monster Hunter team hated the character in Infinite

Y'all, come on... Please... I beg you all to fact check the arguments you use...

There is still absolutely zero evidence that proves this. No articles whatsoever, no word from the developers on anything of the sort with the only point resembling this being a nine year old article referring to MVC3.

Using that as evidence after Hunter debuted in MVCI is like using Sakurai's statement as Villager in Brawl as evidence toward the idea that he didn't actually want him in Smash 4 and would be cutting him in Ultimate. Or that the initial reservation from Sega toward Sonic in Brawl and his lame execution meant that they would be removing him for future games. It's ridiculous unless you can find something to back it up, and I've searched far and wide for it, asked everyone who's used this argument against me for their evidence, and I have still yet to see a single bit of this outside of Imran's recent claims...

Which, to put it bluntly, kind of sound like bulls**t to me too. They're just baseless rumors that fans had already been peddling around for months now, insider or not there's nothing stopping Imran from getting bogged down by red herrings and unfounded speculation that just spread way too far into circles that start to believe it. As someone who's actually put in extensive research trying to find out everything the MH devs have supposedly said about the Hunters, I think I'm justified in feeling that way too and honestly get extremely annoyed when people buy into the stuff about MVCI by word of mouth and nothing more.

Find MH unlikely for all I care but I beg you guys to either stop using this argument or find real actual support for it. I must sound like a broken record at this point but I feel obligated to speak out about this whenever it comes up.

 

[Handy Man]

This post will mostly focus on Phoenix Wright, as he is my most wanted character after King K. Rool got in, and I have already written about him three different times in this thread. I'll talk about Monster Hunter and Dante a bit afterwards.

Phoenix Wright

Chance: 25%

Going into both Fighters Pass 1 and 2, Phoenix Wright seemed to have a good shot getting into both passes, likewise for other Capcom characters. However, with only three characters left to go in Fighters Pass 2, a lot of things happened with just the last two characters alone. Steve and Sephiroth drastically mixed up how the rest of fighter pass 2 shakes up in my opinion. For one, we already had Microsoft and Square-Enix reps in Fighters Pass 1, thanks to Banjo & Kazooie and Hero. This shows that Nintendo doesn't prioritize companies that are unrepresented with DLC characters, like Capcom, Namco, and Konami. This also shows that Nintendo is willing to double dip with companies that already have DLC characters for Ultimate.

Lastly, Sephiroth introduces the concept of existing franchises in Smash getting a second, unique fighter for their series. This new revelation has gotten people to talk about many other characters that haven't been discussed as much prior, like Dr. Eggman and Tails. More notably, this also includes characters from the Mega Man and Street Fighter series, like Sigma, Mega Man X, Chun-Li, and Akuma. This means that, not only is Phoenix Wright now competing with characters like Dante and Monster Hunter, but he could also be competing with characters from franchises already in Smash. Since Mega Man and Street Fighter are both big IPs for Capcom, I wouldn't count out the possibility of one of them getting a second rep as the Capcom DLC fighter in Fighters Pass 2. Personally, I think Chun-Li is a real threat, as she is the first female character in all of fighting games, and she appears alongside Ryu in multiple crossover games.

With that aside, the race for Phoenix Wright to get into Super Smash Bros. has gotten a lot tighter. With no sign of a brand new Ace Attorney game coming anytime soon, along with the fact that Phoenix Wright basically has to beat out every Capcom character that isn't Ryu, Ken, or Mega Man, the competition has become really fierce. However, Phoenix Wright is no stranger to desperate situations; A lawyer is someone who smiles no matter how bad it gets. As soon as things don't go Phoenix Wright's way, that's when a miracle of a turnabout occurs. The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over, so until all three remaining Fighters Pass 2 spots get revealed, I'll keep the hope for Phoenix Wright in Smash alive.

Want: 100%

Ever since King K. Rool was revealed, Phoenix Wright has remained my most wanted character for Smash. Phoenix Wright is one of my favorite characters in all of video games because of his positive, never-give-up attitude and goofy-yet-determined personality. Phoenix Wright is someone who believes so strongly in others and himself, that he is willing to constantly walk on thin ice for the best outcome possible. We've seen this in action in the Ace Attorney games multiple times, with my favorite example being against the prosecutor in case 1-4 of the first Ace Attorney game.

As a Smash character, his character would translate nicely, because Smash is a game where comebacks and underdog victories are possible. The idea of going to a tournament and causing upsets in brackets with none other than Phoenix Wright is perfectly in-character for him. Not only that, but since he's just a regular human compared to most of the characters in the game, his sheer will and passion allows him to topple over characters that are very powerful in their own game's canon, like Palutena, Ness, and Bayonetta. I will never not be satisfied by winning with Phoenix Wright. On top of that, Phoenix Wright is a goofy and expressive character. He would have some really silly attacks that would be fun to watch during a Smash match, like dropping The Thinker statue or doing a Desk Slam.

Fun fact: Almost five years ago, I wrote a guest article for SourceGaming called "The Case for Phoenix Wright". The fact that I wrote this article long before the idea of Phoenix Wright in Smash became more popular shows just how much I care about him and his series. I really hope Phoenix Wright can join Smash, hopefully the miracle happen.

First Post (9/28/2018)

Phoenix Wright

Chance: 10%

Phoenix's support has not been as loud as other third party characters, like Geno, Banjo, Rayman, and Sora. As a result, Phoenix may not be seen as a high priority character choice. Plus, Mega Man and Ryu are already in the game, with Ken being likely as an echo fighter as well. I do not think that Phoenix Wright will be included in the base game of Ultimate.

With that said, awareness of his existance with the trilogy re-release next year will definitely help in gathering support for Phoenix. A new installment for the Ace Attorney series may also be announced next year, since the last game, Spirit of Justice, released in 2016. The game before that, Duel Destinies, released in 2013. A three year development cycle for a new Ace Attorney game seems pretty reasonable, and if we are getting Ace Attorney 7 next year along with the original trilogy, then 2019 could end up as an important year for Phoenix Wright.

Like I said, I don't think he is in Ultimate, but I can see a glimmer of hope of him being added as a DLC fighter. I know I would buy him for sure, hopefully he gets added after a potential resurgance next year.

Want: 100%

The Ace Attorney games are among my favorites of all time. With great stories, fun characters, fantastic music, and gameplay that rewards critical thinking and reading comprehension, the Ace Attorney games are some of the best visual novel games out there. The novelty of a lawyer fighter is also too good to pass up, and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 has demonstrated how Phoenix's playstyle could potentially be handled. Phoenix also has two viable choices in echo fighters; it could be his childhood friend and long time rival Miles Edgeworth, or his future successor and co-worker Apollo Justice.

With Phoenix's games being very high quality, along with his long standing history with Nintendo systems, Phoenix would truly be a unique and quirky character addition to Smash. No objections here.

For further reading, I wrote an article for Source Gaming a while back that discusses why Phoenix should or should not be in Smash.


Nominations: Tetris stage x5

Second Post (6/17/2019)

I'm abstaining on Bandana Waddle Dee and Doom Guy, I'm only posting in here to show my support for Phoenix Wright. Here goes!

Chance - 65%
Capcom has a ton of great IPs, such as Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Okami, and of course, Ace Attorney. With Capcom loving to create DLC for its games, plus the fact that the Mega Man and Street Fighter series are already represented in Smash, this gives Phoenix Wright a lot of competition. In my opinion, the Ace Attorney series biggest threat right now in terms of other Capcom IPs is Resident Evil. With a long standing history going back to the PlayStation 1, plenty of movies being made, horror games going unrepresented in Smash, and over 90 million sales across the series, Resident Evil can be seen as a major threat to a relatively niche series like Ace Attorney. Monster Hunter can be seen as a threat as well, but with spirits and music from the series already in Smash, I don't think it would entirely fit with the specifications of the fighter pass. With that out of the way, Ace Attorney has some things that make it stick out as a great choice for a Capcom DLC character, so I'll take a dive into what Ace Attorney could bring to the game, and how it could beat out other options for a Capcom DLC rep.

Ace Attorney, like Resident Evil, has many games in its series. Ace Attorney also has an anime, a few mangas, a live action movie, theme park attractions, live orchestra concerts, and so much more, especially in Japan. To compare, Persona has also received its own orchestra concert, and Dragon Quest has received a theme park attraction as well. With all the media surrounding the Ace Attorney series in Japan, it shows that Capcom really loves the series over there and does a lot to push the franchise forward. With that said, Capcom is not totally confident in the series outside of Japan. Capcom have made certain games in the series download only, like Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice, or even not released outside of Japan at all, like The Great Ace Attorney and Investigations 2. Meanwhile, Resident Evil has seen mainstream success worldwide, and almost all of its games have been released outside of Japan.

Ace Attorney life time sales are also somewhere around 10 million units, and while that may seem bad compared to Resident Evil, it has sold around the same range as Shin Megami Tensei's 12 million total units, which is the parent franchise to Persona. The Banjo-Kazooie series has also sold around the same range, with Kazooie selling 3.6 million, Tooie selling 1.5 million, and Nuts & Bolts selling roughly $500,000. The only fighter pass franchise added with high sales numbers so far is Dragon Quest, being at a staggering $70 million. This shows that a franchise's sales may not hold much weight, but with Ace Attorney's relative obscurity in the west combined with Resident Evil's worldwide success may push Capcom towards pushing for Resident Evil over Ace Attorney, let alone other series like Devil May Cry or Viewtiful Joe.

Ace Attorney also has some other factors that may make it appealing for Capcom to choose, but nothing truly definitive. One of the bigger examples is the fact that Ace Attorney represents a genre not seen in Smash; visual novels, or point-and-click adventure games. Visual novels are rising in popularity over the years, and Phoenix Wright is one of the biggest reasons the genre is getting exposure outside of Japan. Plus, all of the Ace Attorney games are critically acclaimed. With the high bar Ace Attorney sets for the genre, adding Phoenix to Smash would not only bring attention to his franchise, but a genre that greatly needs more exposure.

The fact that Phoenix Wright would have a unique moveset may also push Capcom towards using him over Chris Redfield or Leon Kennedy, as Phoenix's unorthodox methods of fighting may make him a more interesting pick to Sakurai. Resident Evil characters may use weapons already used by characters like Snake or Joker, while Phoenix Wright's desk slamming and step ladder shenanigans may make him a more appealing choice. With that said, Sakurai may see more value in a moveset for a Resident Evil rep than Phoenix, and may find a way to make the Reisdent Evil rep play differently. Another interesting point is the music and stage either franchise would bring with them. Phoenix Wright has a strong stage contender in the courtroom, while the Resident Evil stage would largely depend on which protagonist is added to Smash. Either way, both Ace Attorney and Resident Evil bring unrepresented genres with them to Smash, so that becomes another tough decision for the potential Capcom rep.

In conclusion, Phoenix Wright definitely has some things going for him as a possible Capcom rep, plus Capcom really loves his series in Japan. With that said, the mainstream success of Resident Evil may have too much power over Capcom's relatively smaller franchises. We also may not get a Capcom rep at all, but considering how much Capcom loves DLC, plus the fact that Ryu was DLC in Smash 4, that would greatly surprise me. I think Phoenix Wright has a good shot for DLC, especially if Ace Attorney 7 is announced at Tokyo Games Show in September, but it's ultimately up to the higher ups at Capcom and Sakurai to decide what franchise would be best for Smash. All we can do is believe in our clients innocence, or the miracle never happen.

Want - 100%
Ever since King K. Rool was revealed back in August of last year, Phoenix Wright has remained my most wanted newcomer for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. The Ace Attorney games mean so much to me, as they have became some of my favorite games of all time. I can heavily relate to Phoenix Wright's never give up until it's over attitude, plus the fact that he always goes against odds but still perseveres through everything reminds me a lot of my mindset and experiences at Smash tournaments over the years. The Ace Attorney games have also always been on Nintendo platforms, with some games being ported to mobile and now even the PS4 and Xbox One. I feel like the Ace Attorney games are at home on Nintendo, much like the Mega Man series, and I feel like they deserve some sort of reward for the consistant support they give for Nintendo.

Plus, Ace Attorney in Smash would bring a lot of great content. Of course, you can't go wrong with the courtroom being a stage, which would be a hilarious stage to participate in. The music in the series is fantastic too; if I had to choose exactly 11 songs to put in the stage, like Joker's Mementos, here are my picks:

1. Pursuit ~ Cornered
2. Steel Samurai (Remix)
3. The Great Revival (Remix)
4. Pursuit ~ Caught (Remix)
5. Fragrance of Dark Coffee
6. Apollo Justice ~ Objection!
7. Athena Cykes ~ Courtroom Revolutionnaire
8. Pursuit ~ Cornering Together
9. Confrontation ~ Presto 2009
10. Pursuit ~ Wanting to Find the Truth
11. Naruhodou Ryuunosuke ~ Objection

The moveset would be interesting too. With a step ladder up special, desk slam down smash, The Thinker statue as a projectile, Objection bubbles, and so much more, there really wouldn't be a character in the game like Phoenix Wright. I imagine a lot of his attacks being goofy and resulting from accidents, like how Isabelle accidently fires off party poppers or whistles to stop signs. It would be cool if there were also some kind of evidence gimmick, which could power up Phoenix's Objection, based on how much evidence he has collected. Plus, he could have alternate costume variants, like my darling feenie, older Phoenix Wright from Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice, or even the hobo costume, which I would personally rock due to the irony of it. Maya Fey, Phoenix Wright's assistant and sidekick, could also show up for his taunts and victory theme, much like Morgana does with Joker. For the older Phoenix Wright, his adopted daughter Trucy Wright may show up for him instead of Maya Fey. Other characters like Apollo Justice and Miles Edgeworth could also make cameo appearances on the courtroom stage.

Overall, Phoenix Wright could bring a lot of great content to Smash. He even has an easy choice for a series icon, as it is seen in many of the game's logos. Plus, many people in Japan would absolutely love Phoenix Wright as his games are beloved over there, plus it would give the Ace Attorney series a much needed boost in the West. We are seeing a similar effect with Dragon Quest as well, as many people in Japan love those games, while they are relatively niche in the West. No character that could be added would make me happier than Phoenix Wright; his character development throughout his games is very satisfying and relatable to me, and I've played every game except for The Great Ace Attorney 2 and love all of them very much. Getting Resident Evil in Smash over Ace Attorney would be a respectable loss, but Capcom deciding to push Ace Attorney instead would be a miracle. I really hope said miracle does happen, as the only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over. We just have to keep fighting until the bitter end, and I will personally never give up in my client; Phoenix Wright will absolutely be my main if he ever gets announced. If you have read everything up to this point, I appreciate your interest very much. No hard feelings if Ace Attorney goes unrepresented, and good luck to everyone else who is waiting on their dream character to be added to Smash.

Third Post (6/25/2020)

Phoenix Wright is the last Smash character I truly want. I have previously voiced my thoughts on him in this thread not once, but twice. As we commence the speculation cycle for the rest of fighters pass two, I think Phoenix Wright's chances are as good as ever. This post will largely focus on the Ace Attorney himself, but I will chime in on Dante and Ryu Hayabusa near the end.


Phoenix Wright

Chance: 70%

With fighter pass two now underway, some things have definitely changed in the speculation community. For one, Min Min now deconfirms spirits, meaning that other third parties like Rayman and Shantae can now be considered "competition". On the other hand, fighter pass one added mostly third parties, with the biggest one being Banjo & Kazooie, an incredibly popular, long-time request from fans. With some companies, like SNK and Microsoft, now represented through DLC characters, it gives some breathing room for other third party companies, like Capcom and Namco.

With that said, I still think Phoenix Wright has pretty good odds. I would be incredibly surprised if there were no Capcom characters at all, as they have one of the largest pools of IPs to use of any company, and are notorious for DLC in general. Resident Evil may not be serious competition anymore, as most of the main characters from that series were added as spirits post-release, but as Min Min proves, one of them could be promoted regardless. Devil May Cry is also notable, as it recently entered the world of Nintendo through its recent Switch ports. One more Capcom series that I think is worth noting is Okami. Okami could bring a lot of Smash, being an artistic game and a cult classic, and Amaterasu would be a very unique fighter.

All things considered, Ace Attorney still has an edge with its seniority. As Ace Attorney has been a Nintendo mainstay since the GameBoy Advance, only being ported to non-Nintendo consoles last year, it feels Wright for Phoenix to join Smash. Worst case scenario, we may not get any Capcom rep at all, but I personally can't see that happening. Capcom has so many IPs that would fit well into Super Smash Bros., and while Ace Attorney is a series that wouldn't feel out of place in Smash, it's also competing with other third party companies and fellow Capcom reps.

Want: 100%

Phoenix Wright is the only character I would main if they were added as DLC at this point. With his strong sense of justice, the ability to believe in his clients because he wants to bring out the best in them, and overcoming many ludicrous odds throughout the Ace Attorney series, I can heavily relate to him as a character. The fact that Phoenix can go against foes that are more experienced than him, and still come out on top, is what could make him satisfying as a lower tier character if he became one. Plus, he would be a funny comedic relief sort of character, with wacky moves like pulling out a ladder/step ladder as an up special, dropping The Thinker statue as a down air, and the infamous desk slam as a down smash.

The Ace Attorney games are also among my favorite games of all time. The Ace Attorney games are very high quality, containing likable characters, great stories, fantastic music, and gameplay that rewards creative thinking and reading comprehension. I have played every game in the series, except for DGS2, and the games do a fantastic job of gripping me into their world. In my opinion, Ace Attorney is too good of a franchise to leave behind as a niche in the gaming community, and Smash would give it the push it needs to become more mainstream, just like Persona and Fatal Fury. The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over; Phoenix Wright being added would make me pop off so hard, and I would do my best with going to tournaments with him.


Dante

Chance: 70%

As I said with Phoenix Wright, Devil May Cry is another Capcom IP that could enter Smash. I feel like he and Phoenix Wright are the two most likely Capcom characters to be added as DLC in my opinion, and Dante's chances are also pretty good. With the recent ports of Devil May Cry 1, 2, and 3 on the Switch, it seems like Capcom wants Nintendo fans to be more aware about Devil May Cry and Dante in general. Dante also has a ton of moveset potential for Smash, and he seems likely to be a higher tiered character in my opinion, potentially making him common and popular in the competitive Smash community. While the ports are much more recent than Ace Attorney's Nintendo debut on the GameBoy Advance, they do fit within the time-frame of when fighter pass two characters would have been negotiated for. If Capcom will have a representative in fighter's pass two, it's probably going to be a toss up between Phoenix Wright and Dante. May the best man win.

Want: 5%

I personally don't really want Dante that much. I feel like he would become another top tier, which would be cool, but I don't find myself playing as top tier characters that much. Aside from that, I haven't played Devil May Cry before. While I would be happy for those who wanted Dante, getting Dante would mean that Phoenix Wright probably wouldn't join instead. That would disappoint me personally, but I would accept that Dante got in instead and just move on. Plus, I wanted King K. Rool in Smash the most out of any character overall during pre-release, so I can't really complain no matter what happens. Dante fans are just as passionate as Phoenix Wright fans, so Capcom would win regardless.


Ryu Hayabusa

Chance: 40%

As a character that has been around since the NES, Ryu Hayabusa has the history and cultural significance to be worthy of joining the Smash roster. Ninja Gaiden is iconic for being tough-as-nails, being one of the first games to feature cutscenes, and its tight and precise gameplay. Koei Tecmo also doesn't have a wide variety of IPs that would work well with Smash, in my opinion. Ryu Hayabusa is one of the best choices for repping the company, due to Ninja Gaiden being one of their most recognizable IPs, as well as the moveset potential he could have combining his original NES games and the Xbox reboot games. The arcade version of Ninja Gaiden is also on the Switch, which is worth noting. He would be one of the only NES era third parties left that could be added, along with the BattleToads, Jason from BlasterMaster, and Bill Rizer from Contra.

With that said, I don't feel too strongly about Ryu's chances. Koei Tecmo and Nintendo already have a strong relationship, largely thanks to games like Hyrule Warriors and Fire Emblem Warriors. If Nintendo picks a Koei Tecmo rep specifically, I feel like they would have to have a really good reason for it, but it's definitely possible. Koei Tecmo is also competing with many other new-to-Smash third party companies that may want in, like Activision, Level-5, Ubisoft, Nippon Ichi, Team Shanghai Alice, and more.

Want: 15%

I think Ryu Hayabusa would be a cool addition to Smash. He would represent one of the most graphically impressive games of the NES era, and Ninja Gaiden is among Koei Tecmo's most important IPs. All things considered, considering the playstyle Ryu Hayabusa would bring to the game, it wouldn't do a lot for me personally and I wouldn't find myself playing as him too much. It would be cool to see him alongside other characters like Mega Man and Simon Belmont though.

NOTE: Since I haven't played Devil May Cry and Monster Hunter before, I'll keep these next two posts more brief. I mostly want to chime in about them because they directly compete with Phoenix Wright, and I think it's worth comparing their chances in an un-biased manner.

Dante

Chance: 25%

Devil May Cry entered the world of Nintendo in 2019 for the first time, with ports of Devil May Cry 1, 2, and 3 on the Nintendo Switch. This seems to have been a strategic plan on Capcom's part. As the Switch has been doing well since it's release in 2017, Capcom probably wanted to capitalize on its success by porting some of their franchises that have never been on a Nintendo platform before. This has allowed Nintendo fans to get better exposure to the Devil May Cry series. While it's nice that the Devil May Cry series is now on Nintendo platforms, Capcom is probably using this as a stepping stone for brand new Devil May Cry games to release on Nintendo platforms for the foreseeable future. The latest game in the series, Devil May Cry 5, is only available on PlayStation and Xbox platforms for now, but there may be plans to backport it to the Switch in the future.

With that said, Dante is a pretty popular choice for Smash DLC, and has been for a while. However, like I mentioned in my Phoenix Wright post, competition for a Capcom character in Fighters Pass 2 has become really fierce. Dante is competing with Phoenix Wright, Monster Hunter, and other characters like Amaterasu, Chun-Li, and Mega Man X. As a result, I feel like any individual Capcom character's chances has gone way down in general. This is due to there only being three spots left for Fighters Pass 2, the unlikely scenario of two or even three of those spots all being taken by Capcom characters, and the competition of all of the Capcom characters reducing each other's chances, due to the fact that only one of many will most likely be selected.

Want: 5%

I have never played a Devil May Cry game before, and I only knew of Dante from the Marvel vs. Capcom games, so I'm very indifferent to him. I would be happy for Dante's fans if he got in, and he would bring in a very unique playstyle of Smash. I can't say that I would play as him much myself personally, although I may be pleasantly surprised. Plus, as long as Phoenix Wright remains my most wanted character, other Capcom characters will always remain a lower priority for me. May the best man win.

Monster Hunter

Chance: 30%

Monster Hunter has been a pretty iconic series on Nintendo since the Wii era. After Capcom released Monster Hunter Tri for the Wii, the series became more well known in the West, with more games in the series being released on the 3DS, Wii U, and Switch. Monster Hunter is also one of Capcom's most financially successful IPs, and promoting Monster Hunter content in Smash more seems like a wise move.

Wait... what do I mean by more? Monster Hunter in Smash is an interesting topic. Rathalos has been a boss in Smash Ultimate since it's release, and the Monster Hunter Mii costume from Smash 4 is one of the couple of DLC costumes from the last game currently missing in Ultimate, along with Lloyd Irving from Tales of Symphonia. I think a Monster Hunter character would break some rules, For one, there is technically a stage in the game already for Monster Hunter, thanks to the Rathlos boss. There is a Monster Hunter song in the "Other" section as well, also for the Rathalos boss fight. With that said, I think this actually doesn't affect Monster Hunter's chances of a Fighters Pass slot that much, although I used to think it did. The Rathalos boss song could just simply be in both the "Other" category and the "Monster Hunter" category. The stage is also already made more or less, so they could either what they currently have to make it a bit more interesting, leave it as it is, or even make a brand new stage just for non-Rathalos-boss matches. There are definitely ways that they could ignore things like that, and Monster Hunter taking one of the remaining Fighters Pass 2 slots is still a possibility.

The reason that I think Monster Hunter has a higher chance in my opinion than both Phoenix Wright and Dante is simply because most of the groundwork has already been done to include Monster Hunter content in Smash. There's a stage, there's one song, and Rathalos is both a boss and an assist trophy. All that would really be left is a playable character and more songs. Since Smash already has the rights to use Monster Hunter content, negotiations would be very easy. But there's two things that still make Monster Hunter not any more likely than 30% in my eyes; competition with many other Capcom characters, and the Mii costume from Smash 4 returning would kill off any chance of the Monster Hunter becoming playable. Monster Hunter has some security thanks to the base game content that it already has, but that could also very well be all that it would've ever gotten in Smash Ultimate regardless.

Want: 5%

I have also never played a Monster Hunter game before. Like with Dante, may the best man win. I'm sure that Monster Hunter would have a dedicated playerbase, and be another unique character in Smash, but I'll always be rooting for Phoenix Wright over any other Capcom character.

 

[Megadoomer]

I have never played a Devil May Cry game before, and I only knew of Dante from the Marvel vs. Capcom games, so I'm very indifferent to him. I would be happy for Dante's fans if he got in, and he would bring in a very unique playstyle of Smash. I can't say that I would play as him much myself personally, although I may be pleasantly surprised. Plus, as long as Phoenix Wright remains my most wanted character, other Capcom characters will always remain a lower priority for me. May the best man win.

This also applies to anyone else who hasn't played a Devil May Cry game before, but I'd strongly recommend the Switch version of Devil May Cry 3. It's a prequel (so you don't need to play DMC1 or 2), and the Switch version adds features that aren't in any other version of the game, which makes it a huge improvement over other releases of DMC3. (and fixes whatever issues I had with my original playthrough on the Xbox 360) Plus, it goes on sale quite often.

I don't know what to recommend for Monster Hunter (since, as I said earlier, I've had trouble getting into the series - I got Tri on the Wii and didn't find it fun to play), though Monster Hunter World is what got a lot of people into the franchise by my understanding. (I haven't played it, so I can't say how accessible/good it is for beginners)

 

[Handy Man]

This also applies to anyone else who hasn't played a Devil May Cry game before, but I'd strongly recommend the Switch version of Devil May Cry 3. It's a prequel (so you don't need to play DMC1 or 2), and the Switch version adds features that aren't in any other version of the game, which makes it a huge improvement over other releases of DMC3. (and fixes whatever issues I had with my original playthrough on the Xbox 360) Plus, it goes on sale quite often.

I don't know what to recommend for Monster Hunter (since, as I said earlier, I've had trouble getting into the series - I got Tri on the Wii and didn't find it fun to play), though Monster Hunter World is what got a lot of people into the franchise by my understanding. (I haven't played it, so I can't say how accessible/good it is for beginners)

That's nice of you to suggest which games I should play first for Devil May Cry and Monster Hunter, but as someone who has been playing the Ace Attorney games for the last decade, my attachment to Phoenix Wright as a character is very strong. I'm sure that Devil May Cry and Monster Hunter are great games as well, but I've been wanting Phoenix Wright in Smash basically as long as I wanted King K. Rool, the latter of which has become my most used character in Ultimate by far. I would co-main Phoenix Wright alongside King K. Rool if he ever joined Smash, and I feel like Smash has already added most of the characters I wanted anyway. I won't respond to any replies to this post, as I do not want to derail the topic, but I appreciate you sharing which games I should try out.

 

[Inue Houji]

Dante
Chance: 15%
Had I rated him earlier this year, I would probably have rated him higher. With the Switch-exclusive version of DMC3 releasing, it seemed like a good opportunity to further promote the games. I guess there is a chance of DMC4 appearing still though.
Nevertheless, he's still an icon and the main protagonist of a genre-defining series. He's got moves for days, and a unique flavor that has yet to be seen in Smash. The DMC director's comments regarding Smash certainly seems like a good sign, though it might also just be him trying to generate hype for the games.

Want: 80%
DMC4 was my introduction to the series, so I have a soft spot for Nero. The combat was unlike anything I'd ever played. His giant demon arm would've been fun as a grab. Later in the game I found myself playing the handsome devil himself, Dante. And that's when I realized.... I sucked at this game.
I still love his personality though, and through watching proper gameplay, found out he's pretty awesome himself. I've also played DMC3, and I recently bought the rest of the games from my local GameStop's going-out-of-business sale, but they're still in my endless backlog...


Phoenix Wright
Chance: 20%
This is somewhat likely, mainly for one reason. The Capcom leak.
Other than that, the series has a history and is present on Nintendo consoles. The games span almost 2 decades, and helped popularize visual novels in the west. While the games themselves aren't quite mainstream, the famous "OBJECTION!!!" is still recognizable throughout the internet.
Phoenix himself is the poster boy of the series, being the original Ace Attorney. There's no doubt whatsoever he'd be the choice if the series is picked.

Want: 60%
I've played through the first two games, and currently on a indefinite hiatus from the third. The games are great, no doubt about that. My concern however is his moveset.
Yes, yes, I know MvC3 exists. I'm not sure how I feel about reusing the concept though, novelty can only take you so far. He's also far from the only Capcom character I'd like to see, and I'd rather see someone that can stay true to their games.


Monster Hunter Hunter
Chance: 30%
I would have rated this a bit higher, but the probable announcement time period(release of MH: Rise) overlaps with the Tales of anniversary. And I'm pretty certain there will be a Tales character.
Monster Hunter has many things going for it, as well as against it. The popularity of it is definitely a big plus. Their new title being a Nintendo exclusive(albeit only temporarily) is also a good sign. They could still be Mii costume'd, but already having content in base game makes one wonder why it hasn't already happened.
The developers seem hesitant to add the Hunters themselves, though the executives at Capcom can still override them, seeing as how they got into MvC:Infinite. Or they might just have had a change of mind, who knows. There's also the rumor of the Hunter concept being scrapped and reused for Byleth if Imran Khan is to be believed.

Want: 20%
Going down from last time. Been long since I last played MH: World, so I'm starting to lose interest in a character that didn't really appeal to me in the first place.
I generally don't like generic avatar characters in Smash.

Predictions
Dixie Kong: 3.8%
Waddle Dee with a bandana: 7.8%

Nominations
Beat x25
Rallen x5

 

[zferolie]

I want to preface my scores that I really feel like we aren't getting another capcom rep. They already have so much 3rd party representation that it feels like Nintendo and more importantly Sakurai would want to branch out more.

Dante:

Chance: 10%

Outta these 3, I feel he has the lowest chance. Nintendo hasn't shown a keen interest in DmC so far, other then old ports. Plus, they got the spirital successor from the creator of Dante already in the game, Bayonetta. I know they play differently, but I feel like they would go another route. IF capcom was going to get a rep, it would be someone else. Honestly I feel he is the most over hyped character expactation for this game.

Want: 10%

I love his games, just don't care for him in smash. At least not yet.

Pheonix:

chance: 25%

Outta these 3, I feel he has the highest chance. He basically feels like a Nintendo character already but in name. The majority of his games are on nintendo, he originated on nintendo, and Nintendo has always pushed his games hard. He also could bring a very unique/fun moveset, which it seems like Sakurai wants to prioritize. Still, I don't think any capcom rep is coming, so I can't put my score higher then this.

Want: 50%

Neutral About him honestly. Fun character an moveset, unique, and brings a new genre of game into smash, but I have no actual attachment to him

Monster hunter

chance: 15%

Monster Hunter is about the monsters, not the playable character. Thats why we got Rathalos in base game as a boss. Why would they wait till now to add a hunter? Plus, I feel Byleth took their weapon swapping idea, so it wouldn't but super unique, unless they added Palicos and traps into their moveset. The only reason they aren't lower then Dante is because there is a new game coming to the switch, but as we know, Smash RARELY picks characters for promotions. for DLC it only happened once so far.

Want: 25%

I honestly would rather have a Palico as playable haha. would be super fun and unique. Plus cat,

Nom: Marina Lightyear x5

 

[DynoStretch]

Dante

Expect - 50%

Dante has been a pretty well requested character for a while now. DMC is a series that Capcom's definitely pushing, There's also that comment his creator made that he'd only ever be in Smash if DMC was on a Nintendo console which sounds rather odd, then again he's a total troll so who knows?

Want - 15%

Speaking as someone who tried playing DMC1, DMC3 and DMC4, I could never find myself getting into the franchise much. He's a fun character, don't get me wrong, but I dunno, it just didn't pull me into other action games such as Bayonetta, so I'm not a fan of his series. That said, since we already have plenty of characters with big swords, (Sephiroth and Ike) characters with guns and stylish maneuvers (Joker and Bayonetta), I personally feel like he'd be a bit redundant at this point, but maybe Nintendo isn't as OCD as me.

Phoenix

Expect - 10%

As much as Phoenix has had a place on Nintendo's consoles, I just can't see Nintendo picking him over the other two options. Maybe if they wanted to throw a curve-ball to shock people like with Banjo and Kazooie, but I really doubt it. His inclusion in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 was due to fan demand, so maybe Nintendo might acknowledge that demand?

Want - 80%

I admit that he's my absolute Most Wanted after we got Banjo and Kazooie. I've been a huge fan of the Ace Attorney series since the first game, and Phoenix is one of my favorite video game heroes. I'd love to see him weaponize his lawyer skills in battle, probably a lot better then he did in UMvsC3.

Monster Hunter

Expect - 40%

Nintendo has been pushing Monster Hunter pretty hard, and with Rise coming to the Switch as an 'early exclusive', I could see them pulling a Hero and Dragon Quest 11S type of thing to promote the game. The only things I could think against it is if they consider Rathalos enough representation, and there's also the missing Mii costumes, which for all we know could be enough for them.

Want - 5%

I'm sorry to the MH fans when I say I have virtually no interest with having the Hunter in Smash. I bought and played a number of the games desperately trying to figure out what people see in the franchise and I absolutely could never have fun playing them. It's just not for me, and when I say this I get people screaming at me that I either suck at the game or that I'm not playing the mandatory 200 hours to understand it (I got the same reaction from Dark Souls fans come to think of it).

As far as Smash, I'm in a similar situation with Dante, as I feel any possible moveset they'd use would just feel redundant in this game, especially with Byleth being already on the roster as a multi-weapon user, he/she even has a tether move so not even that hookshot thing Rise introduced would make the Hunter unique.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Abstaining on Phoenix Wright and Dante, their chance and want percentage are both around 30% and 20% for me, as I have no attachment to their games.

Monster Hunter

Chance - 30%
Monster Hunter has steep competition when compared with other Capcom reps, plus with the whole rumor that Byleth was based off of a scrapped Monster Hunter moveset concept, they're less likely than I thought they were before. If MH was released, they might be more based off of Rise than previous entries if the Byleth rumor is correct.

Want - 100%
I love the Monster Hunter series, so of course I'd love to see a playable hunter. There's a ton of moveset potential for the character that isn't taken by Byleth, with features like traps, bombs, and 14 weapons at their disposal.
I also see the argument that the Hunter shouldn't be a character as the monsters are the true stars of the game, but just because the hunter gets in doesn't mean that the monsters have to be left out. With Rise's new feature wyvern riding, there's a way to incorporate the monsters into the hunter's moveset, perhaps for a special limit break that allows you to summon a monster to ride for a limited time. You have to admit it would be cool to ride a Tigrex into battle.

 

[Louie G.]

Monster Hunter is about the monsters, not the playable character. Thats why we got Rathalos in base game as a boss.

I said this kind of thing about Minecraft, how it was about the world and not "Steve" and how it could be sufficiently represented through other means without a playable character. Contrary to my own opinions, Nintendo and Sakurai disagreed and added Steve anyway. And he's a fun, creative character who represents his home series faithfully.

Monster Hunter is about two things. Monsters... and hunting. Only one of those things is currently represented in Smash. I just find this stance against Monster Hunter to be very weak even if I don't entirely even disagree with the sentiment - because there's plenty of evidence that Smash doesn't really care about this through the presence of multiple "avatar" characters by this point.

Smash RARELY picks characters for promotions. for DLC it only happened once so far.

Aside from the fact that this isn't entirely true, Monster Hunter would be added for a similar reason to someone like Hero rather than Byleth. Monster Hunter is a gigantic series and doesn't need to hinge on the presence of two new games to justify their inclusion... but it certainly doesn't hurt. Just as Dragon Quest is a massive cultural phenomenon that also happened to have an upcoming release on Switch (that they took the time to tie directly into, mind you, with Luminary being the default), Monster Hunter could be largely the same idea. It's kind of odd to me that I've seen so many people assume MH is expected on the basis of being a promotional character and not being arguably Capcom's heaviest hitter franchise at the moment.

 

[Bobthealligator]

Shared Pros:
Capcom has revealed two exclusives for the Switch next year and several more that we know about through the leak, there is a strong correlation between Console exclusives and Smash Characters
All 3 are relevant right now and characters that Capcom may want to push and have the moveset potential to appeal to Nintendo
Shared Cons:
Capcom already has three characters
The Capcom Leak had no mention of Smash and, while not a complete disconfirmation, as they likely didn't get everything, it certainly doesn't help their chances.
Capcom's biggest series outside of the ones in Smash is probably Resident Evil, and that only got a Spirit Event

Monster Hunter:
Pros:
Nintendo and Capcom are both pushing this hard
Huge in Japan and a decent following in the west
Moveset basically makes itself, much like Terry
A decent presenceon NIntendo Consoles, though thathas diminished somewhat in recent years
Cons:
Sephiroth's playstyle focuses on learning your opponents habits and using his comeback mechanic to exploit it, his game plan is similar to how the Hunter would be (Though I doubt this is intentional)
Also not as big a deal as people like to claim but the Monster Hunter devs don't like using the Hunter to promote their franchise.

I'm not going to include the rumour that Byleth was originally supposed to be Monster Hunter, because that's stupid.

Phoenix:
Pros:
Very recognizable.
This year is looking to be a big year for Ace Attorney (2 games)
Cons:
Not nearly as easy to design a moveset for.
His evidence gimmick from MVC is very similar to Steve's mining.
The franchise isn't nearly as big as the other two, though Ace Attorney Trilogy seems to be doing very well on the Switch

Dante:
Pros:
Like Monster Hunter, the moveset makes itself
Very Recognisable
Cons:
Bayonetta showed that maintaining a balance between faithful to the source material and balance can be difficult
Very little presence on Nintendo consoles, especially compared to the other two
While there has been a game recently, I imagine that Ace Attorney and Monster Hunter need the push more, as it's mutually beneficial for both parties.

In conclusion:
If there is a Capcom character in the pass, it's probably Monster Hunter. Monster has the most going for it and almost all the counter arguments are entirely superficial. Then I think I'll go Dante then Phoenix as I feel like Phoenix would be too similar to another character in the pass and too difficult to adapt for Nintendo to consider it worth the royalties. But honestly I think the odds of any Capcom character getting in are a bit too low to reasonably consider any of them as likely, mostly due to the Capcom leak.

 

[zferolie]

I said this kind of thing about Minecraft, how it was about the world and not "Steve" and how it could be sufficiently represented through other means without a playable character. Contrary to my own opinions, Nintendo and Sakurai disagreed and added Steve anyway. And he's a fun, creative character who represents his home series faithfully.

Monster Hunter is about two things. Monsters... and hunting. Only one of those things is currently represented in Smash. I just find this stance against Monster Hunter to be very weak even if I don't entirely even disagree with the sentiment - because there's plenty of evidence that Smash doesn't really care about this through the presence of multiple "avatar" characters by this point.



Aside from the fact that this isn't entirely true, Monster Hunter would be added for a similar reason to someone like Hero rather than Byleth. Monster Hunter is a gigantic series and doesn't need to hinge on the presence of two new games to justify their inclusion... but it certainly doesn't hurt. Just as Dragon Quest is a massive cultural phenomenon that also happened to have an upcoming release on Switch (that they took the time to tie directly into, mind you, with Luminary being the default), Monster Hunter could be largely the same idea. It's kind of odd to me that I've seen so many people assume MH is expected on the basis of being a promotional character and not being arguably Capcom's heaviest hitter franchise at the moment.

Im not saying it couldnt work, and i know avatar characters are not new. I just feel like rathalos in the main game meant sakurai had a plan for a playable hunter, but then decided to have the boss instead and thats it.

Plus, i did forget, but that massive capcom data breach and leak had no smash news in it. I know thats not concrete, but its telling that its likely there are no smash plans.

Plus, i really feel what Imran said on resetera, who has had some inside knowledge, was that some early plans for hunter was moved to Byleth.

 

[Louie G.]

Plus, i did forget, but that massive capcom data breach and leak had no smash news in it. I know thats not concrete, but its telling that its likely there are no smash plans.

I don't believe that any significant crossover plans were leaked.

I find it unlikely that the MH costumes won't at least return, which would still be something worth reporting from a data breach if it was there - not to mention that not everything had been leaked and reported (including Street Fighter V's own DLC, which would DEFINITELY be there).

 

[zferolie]

I don't believe that any significant crossover plans were leaked.

I find it unlikely that the MH costumes won't at least return, which would still be something worth reporting from a data breach if it was there - not to mention that not everything had been leaked and reported (including Street Fighter V's own DLC, which would DEFINITELY be there).

True true. I do feel the hunter armor will return randomly, like all the other ones missing have.

 

[Mr. MR]

Plus, i really feel what Imran said on resetera, who has had some inside knowledge, was that some early plans for hunter was moved to Byleth.

I'm replying to this one because it's the most recent but I think it applies to everyone who cites Imran.

First off in his first post that created the talk around MH he started off by saying:

From what I know but honestly maybe all my info is bull**** who knows don't trust me:

Basically, he's not 100% sure and he even takes his own information with a grain of salt. This leaves it as a rumor or at most an informed rumor.

Secondly, Imran never said it was the Monster Hunter his info was referring to. Although, I do agree that the Hunter would be the best candidate. However it's still far from a conformation of a scrapped Monster Hunter. It just puts some doubt on that interpretation.

Without saying in any way that Monster Hunter was the character

The Monster Hunter team has traditionally been very against having "Monster Hunter" as a character in games, but doesn't mind crossovers with levels and monsters. They were seemingly feeling burned by MvCI despite relenting on it.

On Imran's point that the Monster Hunter team does not like the Hunter being represented as a character in other games, there's a few things to add. As Louie G. has pointed out in his post, there is no recent substantial evidence that says the Monster Hunter team hates the idea of the Hunter being represented in other games. I would like to point out that Imran used the word 'seemingly'. I wouldn't put too much weight on the words that follow.

Lastly he could be right in all this and the rumors could be true. And it could be partially true.
Lets say Byleth indeed took her moveset from a scrapped prototype Hunter. That doesn't necessarily mean the idea of a playable Hunter was scrapped. It could be that the planned moveset for the Hunter was scrapped and they decided to go another route. Possibly after the Monster Hunter team thought the Hunter could be implemented better, especially after all the new stuff coming from Rise. From what we have seen so far from Rise there's a lot of new mechanics and ideas that would work spectacularly for Smash. The wirebug's inclusion makes perfect sense for a Hunter in Smash and from what we have seen today with the new monster mounting mechanic where you basically ride and command the monster to attack, it would make an awesome Final Smash. In my post for this RTC day, I pointed out the many ways the Hunter's moveset could be implemented. It doesn't have to be like Byleth/MvCI.

What Imran said isn't a fact but at best an informed rumor and I don't think it's a bad idea to put some stock in his words. But I don't think it's wise to bet the farm on it. There's still many ways this can play out and also some ways where both can be right.

 

[ThatShadowLink]

I was summoned here as a Dante fan, but I'm a big Capcom fan in general so I'll rate all three of em.

Dante
Chance: 10%

I claim responsibility for overestimating Dante's chances on many occasions. I work for Source Gaming and due to my presence there I've shown a big spotlight on Devil May Cry and exposed our audience and maybe the larger Smash audience(?) to the possibility of its inclusion as well. I made the Source Gaming 'Rate That Character' episode for him for Smash Ultimate's base game, and I rated him higher than I probably should have, because I bought in to the fake leak that Dante was the last character.​

I have also claimed Dante is the most likely Capcom character for Pass 2. I still believe this is true- maybe not if we include Chun Li- but it's not really a big accomplishment considering the competition he has, which uh, I guess I'll get to my logic about that in a moment. The timing on the comments of current series head Hideaki Itsuno, saying that Devil May Cry should come to Switch before Dante can be included in Smash, was highly suspicious. He said that people should request for the series to come to Switch and that plans hadn't moved ahead yet, only for it to turn out that Devil May Cry was coming to the Switch mere months later. The way his statements were worded implied that there were no plans yet for the series to come to Switch, and I doubt he wouldn't have known the series was coming already. Itsuno likes to be cheeky about things he can't talk about, so I'd say this the strongest evidence that Dante could already be in. But that's really only if he was being cheeky.​

In the end, Devil May Cry is the biggest action game franchise in the world, and the pioneer of the genre, so there's definitely an appropriate amount of legacy for his inclusion. Capcom considers it among their premiere franchises after the success of Devil May Cry 5, so there's a possibility that they may have leveraged for his inclusion, but that's a big if, and it might have been too late.​

Want: 100%

I've only got three wanted fighters left who have a chance of still making it into Smash due to sweeping disconfirmations, and Dante has long been my number 1. I made a video for his moveset potential and dear god I'm making another moveset again. He just has so much potential for an interesting character. He could be a swordsman, yes, but he can also be so much more. Styles; a plethora of weapons; Devil Trigger- he's got a lot of potential. It's also criminal that Bayonetta is in before him. Devil May Cry is my favorite franchise, and it would warm the cockles of my heart if he was included. Just please don't come with 'Subhuman.'​

Phoenix Wright
Chance: 1%

Ace Attorney is one of Capcom's most active long-running IPs, but it also performs very poorly on average. It is much more successful in Japan than overseas, but not a single game in the franchise has sold over a million units, and the series, including countless re-releases spanning across 30 titles, has only grossed 7.9 million units sold overall, which is pathetic for a long running franchise, meaning most titles in the franchise barely sell anything at all. The series stays around due to it being very easy to make on a budget, as the appeal of the games to begin with was how much they could get away with not presenting expensive exciting scenarios. I just don't see Capcom or Nintendo putting emphasis on this series. A Spirit Event might happen sometime. Maybe? Probably.​

Nintendo wants Smash DLC to bring players in that might not have Smash or be the biggest Nintendo fans. Make them buy the game or even a Switch. "Niche franchise that barely sells" doesn't really feel like it would fit that criteria. Still though, the character might be bigger than the franchise he is from, which is why I'm not ruling him off as an impossibility.​

Want: 90%

I love Ace Attorney. As far as Capcom franchises go it's my #2. I made a video collaborating with someone about a potential moveset and content pack and tbh I'm down with Phoenix for the music potential alone. The only reason I'm a bit tenuous on his inclusion is that I don't really know if his moveset would feel natural. I don't like the disjointed feeling of Villager's attacks and Nick might function in a similar way, which is a prospect that terrifies me. If they don't mess it up, I'm in 100%, but I don't have full confidence in his execution.​

Monster Hunter
Chance: 1%

The Monster Hunter devs turned down a generic Hunter for Marvel vs Capcom 3 because they didn't want their franchise represented in that way. They put the most effort into the monsters, so it's only fitting that the franchise should be represented with that. Given that we have the Monster Hunter franchise, one of the biggest most popular franchises in gaming, in the base game of Ultimate, and we didn't get a Hunter, I think that says everything. It's represented by a monster, Rathalos, the way the devs would want it, so it was likely that the Hunter was turned down, but they were on-board for including Rathalos because that's their baby. You may use the Hunter in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite as a counter point, but honestly it only strengthens the argument, as Infinite was a hellish nightmare made with no oversight from the original developers of the IPs being used in it. It's likely the higher ups at Capcom mandated the inclusion of a Hunter, and even if the original developers were able to object, that objection was overwritten because money. This leads in to my final point- that Sakurai really respects the will of the original developers for all the franchises he uses, and doesn't do anything without their express approval. If the original developers objected to a Hunter, he would listen to them. That being said, the reason my chance is not at 0 is because of the cynical minded argument that keeps rolling around in my head that Nintendo could just mandate there be a Hunter to promote Monster Hunter Rise, which is something I pray is not happening.​

Want: 0%

I love Monster Hunter. I do not love a generic Hunter as a fighter. This is the most boring pick you could go for. We already have Byleth who covers a lot of the trappings of the generic Infinite Hunter, and that's the most likely iteration we would get. A big sword wielding character-less character. If you're gonna include a character from Monster Hunter and you want to do the series' charm and appeal justice, make it a Felyne.​

​

I hope I don't seem harsh about any of this, I don't mean to be, I can just be very blunt in text sometimes. I mean no disrespect to anyone's favorite characters.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I’m on my phone so bear with me.

Pizza Paizano
15% chance

Dante for me seems like one of the more consistently overrated third parties in terms of chance. It seems that to me people read a ton into the comment on waiting for his games to come to the switch a bit too much. DMC I will say is a big deal. It pioneered modern action games (and I’d argue it’s style is the closest to a modern 3D beat em up). It’s undeniably a popular series, and Dante in a relatively short time has become a popular choice for speculation. So, why am I cynical on him? Well, he’s got some strong competition, such as Chun Li, Phoenix, and MH to name a few. It also does not help that, well, we haven’t gotten anything in the Capcom data leak that I would say helps him right now.

100% want

Dante is a cool choice. My connection to DMC is weak I won’t lie, but this is just a character that oozes cool. DMC3 is the only one I played and it’s a blast. The soundtrack is fun and Dante would honestly fit in pretty well due to how over the top DMC is. I also would love to see Dante in smash since it would be cool to see another combo oriented swordsman. Not to mention that DMC is a franchise that much like Doom can make a strong argument to be in due to its influence. Smash is about gaming as a whole now, so that’s something I am all for.

Eat your sushi hamburgers Apollo

25% chance

If I had to bank on a Capcom character rn, I would go on Phoenix. First off, I’ll edit in later due to not wanting to mess up spoiler tags anything in the Capcom leak. Outside of that, Phoenix has a solid case that he can make for himself. His series has always had a strong association with Nintendo, all of his games have been on Nintendo systems. AA is a pretty iconic visual novel series to boot. What I think helps him over some of his other competition is he has been a relatively popular request. While not an S Tier request, Phoenix has done well on fan polls for a while now which could be a boon he has over other Capcom choices.

Spoiler stuff will go here

100% want

Look the AA games rock. Awesome soundtracks, tons of charm. While I might prefer some weird Capcom choices, I would be super down for Phoenix. He was one of my mains in UMVC3 but I sucked at that game. I would love to see Phoenix in as well because, well, it would be a fun wacky choice. He clearly is not a fighter and it would be a great contrast to everyone else. Also I mentioned the music but oh my god it’s so good. I would love to hear all the remixes Smash would do. Imagine a jazzy courtroom remix, a metal objection remix, it goes on.

Rexxar

20% chance

I will be honest, if you asked me on another day, I’d be a lot more optimistic about a Monster Hunter rep. But in my eyes the base game sitch with MH is something that looms heavy for me. If I didn’t think rn it was as big of an obstacle, I think I would say MH would be bar none the most likely choice for a Capcom rep. But Rathalos being in the base game just makes me think this is a huge wild card. I rated this higher in the past, and my ratings, like many, are subjective. I think that MH if I had a gun to my head would make a ton of sense. It is just that is in such a weird spot. The content is there and it would be easy to negotiate for, it’s just a matter of when.

Also I don’t buy into the Khan stuff, he has a decent tract record but it doesn’t seem right.

Abstain want

Look I am still a MH outsider. I’ll get Rise, it looks cool. But as of now, I have no connection to MH at all. I know some people would be happy, but right now I would prefer...most other Capcom choices. That being said, it is on my backlog so I do want to give it a try at some point. It makes sense, and I wouldn’t be against it, but until I play as them or play MH I can’t say I would like them in.

Mike Haggar x 15
Neku x 15

Dee 32.22% (this one will get hyper inflated)
Dixie 18.88%


Day over. Rate Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong, predict Rex and Concept: Gen 8 Pokémon.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I love Monster Hunter. I do not love a generic Hunter as a fighter. This is the most boring pick you could go for. We already have Byleth who covers a lot of the trappings of the generic Infinite Hunter, and that's the most likely iteration we would get. A big sword wielding character-less character.​

For heaven's sake people, Monster Hunter is not just a heavy sword wielder. They also have hammers, long swords, dual blades, insect glaives, hunting horns, charge blade, bowguns, lance, gunlance, etc. Byleth only maybe covers 1/4 of what Monster Hunter can do. Also, Smash does not have to replicate a moveset from a different fighting game series. Sakurai is creative enough to incorporate a variety of weapons into a moveset. Heck, you could even come up with multiple movesets for Monster Hunter.

 

[Jomosensual]

Bandana Dee

Chance 10 - Could happen I suppose since they're doing spirit upgrades. IDK if we'll actually get another now but it's on the table. My chance score stays the same from last July however. I don't find him likely for DLC though because it feels like, based on Sakurai's comments at the end of the Byleth presentation and what we saw with Min Min, the focus might finding characters who can have unique and fun ways to play. Min Min and Steve added to that as well and even Sephiroth kinda did with his wing system being unique. And that's my issue with BWD. He most likely wouldn't be fun to play. A spear user would be unique, but would it be fun? No. No it wouldn't be. And that kinda does him in for me. Fan demand keeps him alive for me but if we see him in the game with a super fun and standout moveset then Sakurai is a god.

Want 0 - Just gonna be blunt and say this character bores the hell out of me. With a spear you can jab, throw, spin, and......? I don't play Kirby much so I don't have any attachment to him and just on the surface Marx comes off as a significantly more interesting option. I'd be more interested in seeing fun movesets from less requested characters than boring characters who just get in on fan demand right now.


Dixie Kong

Chance 10 - Rating stays static from last time as well. Spirit upgrades being on the table help her out. Still concerned about a good an interesting pass being based around her. Just more Donkey Kong content isn't enough for me to be sold on that. For our 1st party fighters pass reps(so not Plant who was a stand alone) we got one from a game that had nothing in 3 Houses and one from a series that had basically nothing outside of a few spirits, mii costumes, and ATs. DK already has multiple songs, characters, and stages in the game. Will they feel she's a worth while addition when there's nothing of any real hype coming with her? I don't know. I didn't even notice the lack of Tropical Freeze content in the game until someone brought it up in here. Also like BWD is she's hurt by the fact that in all likelihood the only other Nintendo character in the pass will probably be the final one from a major release. It could be a new DK game but that gets announced I can't say it works in her favor.

Want 0 - Pass for 2 reasons. First, I'd rather get Cranky as the next DK rep since he's the original DK and would be more fun to play. The 2nd being that I don't think she'd be that fun to play either. I've never really cared that much about Dixie either so her not being in the game doesn't bother me. If she got in as a Diddy echo that would be fine since I can only care so much people being echo fighters but as a fully unique I just don't really want it that much.

Predictions:
Rex - 59.42%
Gen 8 Pokemon - 23%

Noms:
Far Cry rep x10
Bioshock Protagonist x10
Riptor x5

 

[Perkilator]

Abstain on Dixie.

Bandana Dee
Chance: 20%
With each character revealed, I can understand not thinking Bandana Dee to have too much of a chance.

The list is getting smaller
Only three more sho-ots
For your dream pick's slo-ot(s)

May we all stand taller
No matter the small chance
Dee can blow your pa-ants

Want: 100%
Contrary to popular belief, Dee would make as much sense for the roster as anyone. He's one of those characters who should've been in two base games and three DLC cycles ago, and I'd gladly accept him.

Call a Hat Goomba all you want, but he's himself. And that's something I wanna be proud of, because I am.

Rex: 20%
Gen 8 Mon: 50%

Noms:
Crazy Dave x5

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hat Goombah

Chance: 1% He's just a regular mook with a slight difference what a waste smh. Joking aside, Bandana Dee does have stuff going for him but a big roadblock, I'll start with the positives. For starters, he's a pretty damn popular request, I dare say he's in the top 3 most discussed Nintendo characters on this site not already in the game. Japan adores Waddle Dees and they're highly marketed there so that makes sense to include as Bandana Dee does hit the notes for a more casual character. He's also not going anywhere soon as seen with HAL really pushing the little guy a lot since he started, with HAL also confirming Kirby would have some games in 2021. What kind of games are currently a mystery and whether Bandana Dee will have notable presence is unknown but theoretically speaking, he could end up promoting a new game which does help a lot. What's also noteworthy is Plant, sure, they were meant to be on the base roster, but if a literal generic enemy can get in, why would Bandana Dee get shot down for being generic when he's gotten his own individuality over the years? However, this is where the positive stuff ends. A smaller issue is his moveset, as I feel he's not very unique anymore as when picturing his normals, all I'm able to think of is Belmont but smaller, doesn't help we've had 3 characters who focus on rather precise disjoints as DLC so far. Finally, the big roadblock which absolutely tramples most of this. Sakurai. Sakurai has been pretty clear that he prefers adding Kirby content from games he's worked on and while he did initially create Bandana Dee in Super Star, Bandana Dee's claims to fame all come from post Sakurai games. He's gotten slightly better with overall content but it's very telling to me that when the Epic Yarn stage got scrapped in favour of Woolly World, the Kirby stage we got was from another game Sakurai himself made.

Want: 50% It's kinda funny, Bandana Dee used to be my most wanted character and was the first character I thought of when thinking of who should be in Smash but nowadays I don't really care all too much about him. His moveset while simplistic is also quite dull in retrospect outside of Spearcopter considering what I've mentioned early and how I've been exposed to so much more exciting games as a whole, and worst yet, there are other Kirby characters I'd prefer to see like Galacta Knight and the objectively correct choice known as Susie. I've also grown less fond of Kirby as while there are no bad games in the series, the formula's starting to get a tad stale, especially when the big gimmick of the previous game was just mishmashes of other Kirby game gimmicks and said game would have been painfully mediocre had it not been for the DLC. That being said, it would be wrong to say that Bandana Dee would be an utter waste in my eyes, we kind of need him before any other character gets added, it'd be like adding Tingle before Ganondorf or Geno before adding Peach. Not to mention that Bandana Dee would come with more Kirby content, specifically, modern Kirby content that typically gets the shaft in favour of games Sakurai's been in charge of and while Ultimate has somewhat rectified this by adding more Modern music like the highly beloved CROWNED and Dedede's final smash, more could never hurt, especially if we get more Robobot tracks as Robobot's the best Kirby game we've gotten period.

Has lasted 6 times longer than her namesake

Chance: 1% Dixie Kong really has it rougher than most, going from being one of the most requested Nintendo characters to being almost completely ignored after K.Rool got in, fulfilling the role of 'DK rep' and having most people eye for Banjo. Now that Banjo's in though, she's been getting her popularity back, especially after the criticism that we haven't had many female characters in quite a while, but I feel she's kind of gotten that too late. It doesn't help that Donkey Kong's gone dormant again outside of a Tropical Freeze port that emphasized Funky Kong and Retro's currently been so busy with Prime 4 that they keep needing to hire more and more people, so she doesn't seem to have luck on her side for promotional reasons. The final kicker for me though is how we know for a fact that she was considered for Brawl one way or another but ultimately got scrapped. For some reason, Sakurai has yet to revisit that idea and he seems to have dropped it, possibly because he intended a character switching mechanic and Pokemon Trainer taught him not to do that **** again. She'd work very well as an echo, but we know for a fact they aren't happening so she's **** out of luck again. Someone give this girl a break, goddamn.

Want: 40% I'm not really a huge fan of DK as my experience is pretty much the original and a few hours of Returns and TF, though I've seen full lets plays of the entire trilogy and Retro's games, so I've seen Dixie's stuff in particular and while the games look pretty fun, Dixie herself seems pretty basic all things considered. Yeah, she can whip her hair, use it as a copter and has her own bubblegum popgun, but I can't really see how she'd be an exciting addition as herself, so I just can't see how she'd excite someone who's not already a fan. This isn't a requirement by any means but this does affect my personal tastes and hey, maybe I'd be proven wrong. Despite this, just like with Bandana Dee, her absence is noticable so at worst I'd say "At least DK feels complete now". After all, the franchise doesn't really have any other major characters after her besides Funky Kong, who's only recently become a playable character. It's just nice when all the essentials are included and I like DK enough to think it deserves that at the very least.

Velvet Crowe x10
Zagreus x10


Also TCT~Phantom you jokingly said we'd rate Wooper on the Rex and Gen 8 day on your fixed roster schedule post and I'm genuinely considering a writeup for Wooper solely for ****s and giggles, may I do that or do you retract the joke addition of Wooper on that post? This is a very serious question

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Bandana Dee

Chance: 15%
I think he has about the best shot of any new Kirby rep at getting in the game; he's by far the most requested character from the series, with only Magolor coming close. I still don't think he's that likely considering the path DLC has taken so far but there's enough demand that it's plausible.

Want: 45%
I respect Bandana Dee. I always thought he was a fun character in Return to Dream Land and I like spear users in general. I don't quite have the personal attachment to him that his diehard fans have since I kinda haven't played a Kirby game since the Wii era but I like this guy and love seeing more cute characters added to the roster so I'd be happy if he got in.

Dixie Kong

Chance: 10%
Despite being a very iconic character in her franchise and someone that many consider "surprisingly absent", I just have a hard time seeing her being an exciting character for most. The only reason I'm going as high as 10% is because of rumors of a new Donkey Kong game being a possible reason she might be added.

Want: 100%
Dixie Kong is my absolute most-wanted for Smash. She's been one of my favorite video game characters ever since DKC2 and she is CRIMINALLY overlooked. After all, she had her very own game, and yet it took her this long just to get into Mario Kart! I think she brings a lot more to the table for a unique moveset than people realize, and a lot of different ways to go about designing one.

Noms: Have we done Lloyd Irving in a while? If not then Lloyd Irving x10

 

[Inue Houji]

Have we done Lloyd Irving in a while?

He's on the schedule, we're rating him in a few days.

 

[Sari]

Some songs to get into the Bandana Dee mood:

Spoiler: Bandana Dee Music

Some songs to get into the Dixie Kong mood:

Spoiler: Dixie Kong Music

 

[fogbadge]

not the only missing nintendo all star despite what her support thread title would have you believe

chances: 10% so far the dlc characters have been a really mixed bag but i think nintendo for their own characters would suggest big switch titles. and whether or not that may include ports is impossible to tell at this time. of course nintendo could just suggest another DK character so thats something. a she still has a strong following of fans which is helpful. of course considering how much trouble everyone had get k.rool in im not sure sakurai is in a hurry to put in any more. and of course dixie nearly made it into brawl along with diddy but sadly that doesnt mean anything as any supporter of many other considered characters would tell you.

want: 70% fighting with a ponytail and a bubblegum gun sounds fun. i do like the character a think she would be a good character to include but there's just a lot id rather have. even among dk characters my choice would be cranky. still she is one of the few characters who may actually deserve to be in smash due to being a missing nintendo icon along with toad and tom nook.

kirby's bff

chances: 5% it's not happening. yes hes popular, yes hes a modern nintendo all star, yes hes now the fourth main kirby character but all that does not matter to sakurai. true its perfectly believable that nintendo would suggest a character from star allies but its also believable that sakurai would turn down the idea. from what weve seen so far sakurai prefers kirby to be the way he made it which means we're probably only gonna have his trio as playable. now theres also the idea that sakurai just does whatever nintendo tells him to with dlc but thats just an idea that came from the nintendo picking characters thing and then filling in the blanks with whatever. sakurai can still reject any character he wants and there could be all manner of reasons for why he does. we only ever get told the most bare bones version of what goes on at smash. so right i just dont think sakurai will be breaking his kirby focus anytime soon.

want: 100% the guys awesome, and adorable. ive really grown to love this guy and would love to have him in smash with his spear and parasol. he could even have the augments from star allies for extra effect or summon a big ball of waddle dees. they guy could do all sorts of things so hed be tones of fun to play as. plus itd be quite nice to have a version of the apple juice song as well.

nominate qbby x10

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Oh I like today! Quite topical too now that the most recent “deconfirmation” has been what I, amd maybe others, viewed as the most likely first party game shill recency relevancy timing promotion blatant advertisement buzzword.

Bandana Dee
Chance: 20%
This I think could be higher, first of all. I think a ballot-popular, requested first party (as opposed to recency-driven first parties or a pick based on “this is so cool we won’t get to include if not now“) is one of those “how did we not see this coming?” things like Steve was. Somehow it’s a thing we don’t expect, even if we do know that popularity is measured and taken into account through the ballot.
Even if that is not the case, we know that Kirby is doing.....something and, well, judging HAL, Bandana Dee is gonna be a part of it.
However, what Bandana Dee lacks is positive evidence. Kirby has been cruising on DLC and free-to-play online games for a while now, and there’s no guarantee Kirby’s 2021 is going to be the grand return to Dreamland that we want and that will keep Bandana Dee out of this weird Toad-esque role of being “playable character number 4 when he’s not throwing items”.
Moreso, unlike other ballot favorites, Bandana Dee is...absent. Not even suspiciously absent. He’s there as Spirit like the others, but in terms of acknowledged popularity Smash-wise, we only have our faith in our fanpolls to go off by.

Then there’s Sakurai’s involvement in Kirby, which unlike the Smash 4 days, does have evidence in favor of it now in the form of the Marx boss and Chef Kawasaki of all creatures being the new Kirby Assist Trophy.

Want: 70%
I respect Bandana Dee as a long-time request from a from what I’ve seen nice fanbase. As a character he also has the resume to claim the fourth main character slot, or at the very least as the first in line and I’d hate to let that overqualification lead to a Toad-like situation. But if there is one playstyle that has gone from zero-to-hundred in the span of one game, it’s distance demon.
Belmonts started off the trend with what is already a legacy version of the Bandana Dee-in-Kirby moveset so famously touted by the fans as being so portable to Smash. While that moveset was never really interesting (Stab up, stab forward, rapid stab and stab drop down), it was at least something new as a thin-but-precise version of the zoner archetype. Now with Belmonts, I’d say a large part of that is gone.

This is exacerbated by Kirby’s lack of sticking mechanics that could spruce up his playstyle. His moveset stayed the same since Dream Land, with the only added bonus being I think what is essentially the Ground Thrust Mii Swordfighter special, which in turn is Falcon Kick. What was once an elegant and simply-flowing moveset has now turned into a charicature of a well-tread ground and his general design oozes this very idea. It’s sympathetic, but also deliberately simple and aside from his Kirby size and floatiness, I can’t think of anything that would elevate his spear from the Kirby’s Return to Dreamland set to a Smash Bros one. (I bet Sakurai can, which is why this is in want and not chance)

I mean, I think I can? If you take Beam as an additional inspiration you can do a “half Pika, half Belmont” set as a close-up part to a long range set, and the small frame means Bandana Dee wouldn’t commit himself to the distance demon range rat race that is now won by Min Min in Forward Smash range and Sepiroth in overall reach. Add the Parasol for protection and Palutena Back Air shenanigans and Dee can take the protection that the spear provides to any range and stage of the game and focus less on ”the opponent is in-or-out” and more on “several layers of protection before the opponent faces a literal Kirby-weight“, but the skeleton of the Spear moveset lurks over him and when it comes to specials, he misses the mechanic to make it glue. (Though I don’t argue he has to. Sepiroth comes by fine with “projectile projectile recovery counter)

It’s a variation on the uncanny valley: The basic spear moveset is so Smash-like in some aspects, but in all of them it’s the minimum in such a way that you can’t port the moveset, but you also can’t build a set from scratch that leaves out things like “throwing spear” and “tilt in x direction is stab in x direction”.

If we look at the DLC so far, Byleth took on the spear itself as one of many weapons and coined the term distance-demon (and I guess weapon master if you want to nitpick at the beam-parasol concept), before Min Min and Sepiroth took it in their own direction in this very pass.

Now, I don’t want to say that it’s all done and Bandana Dee has gone totally without moveset potential. His small frame, multiple jumps, floaty nature and above-average mobility could very well lend itself for a Young Link/Toon Link take on the archetype and that would be very exciting! Like a mini-Sepiroth or mini-Belmont that trades pure range for non-weight safety and attack speed. But the fact I’m already calling it an archetype and the fact that he’d be the third of said archetype in this very pass is a far cry from the free reign he had in the Smash 4 days and a hard sell with so many other Kirby characters coming out to show their fulll potential in Kirby Star Allies and Kirby Fighters 2.

So....why the high score?

We don’t have all the facts yet, which is that I love him.

Dixie Kong
Chance: 15%
Poor poor Dixie. What is in potential a megaton popularity got snuffed out twice by her fellow Rare candidates. Already having to split the DK vote in the ballot with acknowledged megaton King K. Rool, she went into both Ultimate and the first wave of DLC with a Phil Spencer-tweet specter above her head. That Dixie stood and continues to stand on her own against these two is a massive feat, which makes it all the more sad that the timing just wasn’t in her favor to truly take center stage, now ironically dwindling in the era of third party shockers. Leaving behind an era of once-power-hungry DK fanbase, stampeding into Smash 4 and its ballot with but 2 DK characters, Rare-to-the-throne King K. Rool was the main course for Smash Ultimate, and what should’ve left the fanbase clamoring for dessert turned out to be the ultimate treat of Banjo‘s return, ultimately leaving the ferocious fanbase satisfied with their trophies and leaving Dixie behind.

That said, unlike Bandana Dee, who we are used to being Kirby’s number four and whose fate is uncertain even if Kirby returns, a new DK game could finally relight the spark for Dixie, but I doubt it’ll be enough to keep her afloat when the pass has already been decided.

Want: 60%
I not only respect Dixie for being Nintendo’s biggest heroine not in Smash (I think I can say that for now), I also want her. Which helps. Otherwise, she’d be in the same boat as Bandana Dee, except with a skeleton of spear stabs, she’d have the frame of Diddy Kong already in the game. However, unlike Bandana Dee, she has one big signature that isn’t taken by anyone, which is her multi-facet hair.
It can not only spin to give her recovery, it acts as a fifth limb that can really bring home the animations necessary for an acrobatic playstyle that, in a nice turn of events, makes the most sense for her even if we’re looking at Diddy for inspirations. Handstands, hairstands, hair flips and copters are all on the table. Dixie does struggle with finding special moves (I mean you’ve seen the guitar-based specials), but with the barrels of DK content not in Smash yet (mostly the barrels-part), Dixie can essily toss together something that makes sense for her bouncy and aerodynamic personality and playstyle. (This is a jab that Bandana Dee fans don’t deserve but this is why it’s nice for a character to have a personality)

Concept: Zelda newcomer xN

(N = I don’t know how many nominations I have considering the rule changes I know about but do not know and the fact I got tagged for extra noms like once but I’d like to use all of my nominations on this concept please and thank you.)

Rex: 13.5%
Gen 8 Pokémon 34.5%

 

[NintenZ]

Bandana Waddle Dee

Chance- 50%

Hear hear. While it might seem doom and gloom for Dee there are some things going for him that make me think he could get in against all odds. Some things to note of importance. First off he got a Nendoroid Figure recently, which is pretty significant seeing not even Dedede has gotten one. He’s a very significantly popular request especially among Japanese fans likely because of Kirby’s cultural phenomenon status in Japan. Then there’s HAL's 40th Anniversary with Bandee being there in front, acknowledging his importantance with the rest of the cast. Numerous Kirby Spirits are missing such as Chilly, Dark Meta Knight, Taranza, Adeline, Hyness, and etc. Sakurai is friends with Kumazaki (the person who makes Modern Kirby games) & went with Kirby Cafè with him, & was excited for Star Allies, meaning he doesn't really dislike the Modern Kirby games Contrary to popular belief. Speaking of Kirby Cafe, Bandana Waddle Dee has a new song that came out last year related to that. Now that Min Min got in, the spirits deconfirm fan-rule has been broken. Kirby Fighters 2 came out last year, while probably too late for planning it does show he’s maintained relevance throughout as he has a prominent role With the inclusion of Byleth, it proves that Nintendo isn't afraid to promote existing franchises in Smash. And finally, Makiko Ohmoto (Bandana Dee's seiyuu) responding to a comment about Bandana Dee awhile back saying "I hope he gets in" or something along those lines. With all this taken into account there are some interesting things to take away from this that could lead to his inclusion, the biggest roadblock however I guess is Sakurai and his stigma against using content from Kirby games he didn’t make, but as aforementioned he doesn’t seem to have a problem with those games and is friendly with the new developers so I don’t think it’s that big of one, overall it really just depends on the circumstances.

Want- 100%

Bandana Dee has been one of my most-wanted characters for Smash for almost a decade. I love him as a character and find him an endearing underdog who always gives it his all. In terms of moveset he’s simplistic yes but I find that actually an appealing quality of him. We have so many characters that have been added with complex gimmicks as of recently that it would be nice to have a more streamlined character. At this point it just feels kinda weird not having him, so yeah I’m fully on-board with him.

Dixie Kong

Chance- 50% (Echo Fighter) 10% (Unique character)

Lemme explain this one real quick, her case is largely circumstantial and depends on if they want to add more Echo Fighters. Diddy does not use tail attacks in his moveset and she’s a very popular character who was actually planned for Brawl. As Min Min showed being a Spirit doesn’t really matter all too much. If we do get more Echo Fighters I’d be surprised if she wasn’t one of them. As for a unique character... Yeah I don’t really see it, I could maybe see her getting in as a duo with Kiddy Kong as like a wildcard since it kind of replicate’s Sakurai’s original concept in Brawl but I don’t think that’s particularly likely since Kiddy hasn’t appeared in a game in years, to me it’s Echo or nothing.

Want- 100%

Another character that I’ve wanted for years that feels like a bizarre exclusion to me. She’s the last DK character who truly feels missing, like she had her own game for crying out loud and she kept appearing in games while K. Rool faded out. Even the original creators are on-board with having her in. Honestly I don’t care how she’s implemented she just needs to be in imo.

So all-in-all, two Nintendo characters that feel weirdly missing from Smash that I would love to see at some point, I think both have their own merits and I hope that they get included someday .

Nominations:
A Xenoblade Character (10x)
Kaede Akamatsu (10x)

 

[NintenRob]

I'm at the point where I think pretty much every character is equally as unlikely asthe next, its just impossible to predict at this point. Which is why i haven't been partaking in these.


That said, I can still want
Bandana Dee 100% want
He's cute and adorable and has a ready made moveset. Modern Kirby is also immensely underrepresented. Just give me the Dee.

I should probably use my nominations, lets do a Carmen rerate, Carmen Sandiego x50

 

[Bobthealligator]

Dixie Kong:
Pros:
She has a decent fan following
Cons:
I feel like she's too similar to Diddy to really be considered for DLC. I am aware that she wouldn't be a clone of him but that's more similarities than any DLC character has had to another fighter.
She's got a following but the following isn't as big as someone like Geno, who didn't get in, or Bandana Waddle Dee, more on him later.
She also doesn't tie in to any big Switch releases.
Also despite what Dixie's thread claims, she is neither the only, nor even the most notable Nintendo Allstar missing. (Waluigi, Rhythm Heaven And Bandana Dee again say hi)

Bandana Dee:
Pros:
There is reason to assume that Sephiroth was added in order to rectify Final Fantasy's abscence of any non fighter related content. Another reocurring complaint about representation in Smash is that the Post Sakurai era of Kirby has almost entirely been ignored, something that Waddle Dee can rectify
Kirby gets a new installment every year, so he's basically eternally relevent, and is very marketable
Cons:
I feel like Sephiroth overlaps with this character a bit too much, along with MinMin I do question if Nintendo would put 3 disjoint zoners in one pass
The Post Sakurai era has been ignored for a reason (Namely Sakurai being against the level of sequelisation the franchise usually sees), while this could change, there is precedent. But while others have used this idea, I don't think it's significant. Sakurai has said on multiple occasions that while he is able to turn down one of Nintendo's suggestions, he has yet to use it, so the only way that this affects his chances is if whoever at Nintendo is picking the characters assumed he'd say no and didn't actually put the idea forward.

In conclusion:
I really don't think Dixie has a chance as DLC, she's too similar to an existing characterto really sell and her popularity is insufficient to overcome that. Bandana Dee is in a weird place, Sephiroth has both improved his chances but also made his moveset somewhat redundant, I do think he's being somewhat slept on but I still wouldn't put him as likely. It just goes to show how unpredictable this Fighter Pass has been so far.

 

[BowserKing]

Bandanna Dee

Chance: 30%. I think Bandanna Dee’s chance is quite high. Bandanna Dee being a spirit does not effect him since Min-Min became playable. Also his chance is quite high due to his popularity and being from the Kirby games, so this could give him a chance. His chance will also be higher for potential sequels. Another note is that Bandanna Dee would be easy to create. All you need is a saddle Dee model, give it a moveset and a few changes, and you have a new fighter.

Want: 100%. He is my most wanted Kirby character and I think he will be fun to play as. I can see him using a few moves from Kirby: Star Allies as part of his moveset. I can also see him fight Piranha Plant, R.O.B and Jigglypuff in a free for all. Overall, Bandanna Dee should defiantly be in Super Smash Bros.

Dixie Kong

Chance: 25%. Her chance is quite high in this game. Due to Min-Min being playable, Dixie Kong’s chances has risen quite a bit, and due to her fan base, popularity will rise as well. Also she was going to appear in Brawl, but was cut, and since several cut characters ended up being playable, it’s plausible that she would be playable as well.

Want: 100%. She is not only my most wanted Donkey Kong Country character, but she is also my most wanted First Party Echo Fighter. She would be fun to play as, and I already came up with a moveset. Her moveset includes a Bubble Gum Gun, Hair Helicopter and a Guitar, with Rambi and Ellie as her Final Smash. I can see her team up with Diddy Kong against Mario and Peach, or Link and Zelda in a 2v2 match. Overall, Dixie Kong would be a brilliant choice for a Smash Bros Rep.

Prediction: Rex (20%) and Gen 8 Pokémon (35%)

Noms: 5 for Boss: Rayquaza

 

[zferolie]

I'm replying to this one because it's the most recent but I think it applies to everyone who cites Imran.

First off in his first post that created the talk around MH he started off by saying:

Basically, he's not 100% sure and he even takes his own information with a grain of salt. This leaves it as a rumor or at most an informed rumor.

Secondly, Imran never said it was the Monster Hunter his info was referring to. Although, I do agree that the Hunter would be the best candidate. However it's still far from a conformation of a scrapped Monster Hunter. It just puts some doubt on that interpretation.


On Imran's point that the Monster Hunter team does not like the Hunter being represented as a character in other games, there's a few things to add. As Louie G. has pointed out in his post, there is no recent substantial evidence that says the Monster Hunter team hates the idea of the Hunter being represented in other games. I would like to point out that Imran used the word 'seemingly'. I wouldn't put too much weight on the words that follow.

Lastly he could be right in all this and the rumors could be true. And it could be partially true.
Lets say Byleth indeed took her moveset from a scrapped prototype Hunter. That doesn't necessarily mean the idea of a playable Hunter was scrapped. It could be that the planned moveset for the Hunter was scrapped and they decided to go another route. Possibly after the Monster Hunter team thought the Hunter could be implemented better, especially after all the new stuff coming from Rise. From what we have seen so far from Rise there's a lot of new mechanics and ideas that would work spectacularly for Smash. The wirebug's inclusion makes perfect sense for a Hunter in Smash and from what we have seen today with the new monster mounting mechanic where you basically ride and command the monster to attack, it would make an awesome Final Smash. In my post for this RTC day, I pointed out the many ways the Hunter's moveset could be implemented. It doesn't have to be like Byleth/MvCI.

What Imran said isn't a fact but at best an informed rumor and I don't think it's a bad idea to put some stock in his words. But I don't think it's wise to bet the farm on it. There's still many ways this can play out and also some ways where both can be right.

Before i voted wanted to reply. Yeah i get its theory crafting and hearsay and may be wrong but it makes sense and worth considering honestly. Still, my main reasons for the low scores were just i really dont think capcom is getting any more characters.

Anyway to the ratings!

Bandana

Chance:5%.

While he is a popular character, i really get a geno feel here. He is only really popular with his fanbase, and otherwise nintendo only considers him a side character not worth adding to smash, at least as dlc. His best bet i feel is in the next game as a base character, or in a possible 3rd pass thats based soloy on a fan poll/smash ballot.

Want: 60%

While not a huge fan i think he would fit fine into smash, and be a fun character with his spear.

Dixie Kong

Chance:10%

I honestly feel that if we get any more 1st party characters, its going to be someone nintendo considers more popular and/or a new series. I love dixie and would want her in, but i feel nintendo is looking more at Waluigi or Rex. Heck honestly i think her biggest hurdle is that she can work as either a Chrome style echo or a full character. With these characters in dlc all pretty unique in one way or another Sakurai would look for someone that doea have an option to pull moves from other characters. As i said with Bandana, her best chance is in a base roster in a new smash.

Want: 100%

Love dixie, i wish she was in the game sooner. I also wonder what it would have been like if the origonal plan of dixie and diddy as a duo style character as was supposidly planned back in brawl

Prediction: Rex 40% pokemon 20%

Nom: marina lightyears x5

 

[Iko MattOrr]

You know my opinion on BWD, I'm just tired of writing the same stuff over and over, so I won't rate him again this time.
My opinion on him did not change, he's still the only character I actively don't want in Smash, I'm indifferent to ok with anyone else.

Two versions of Smash and Kirby got little to no content, and if when they finally add something it's the most uninteresting and boring stuff they could add from that series, then I'd be extremely disappointed.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Bandana Dixie Dee

Chance: 15% for both

I have been confident in Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong for a while now. However, their score will be dropped from a 60% (from my last rating of them) to 15%. Why the steep drop? Well I believe their last rating was right after Min Min.....and then we got Steve and Sephiroth. While I do believe we will get at least one more first party character, the more I think about it, the less I'm certain about these two. Looking at Smash's history with first party DLC characters, the only non-veterans are Corrin, Byleth, and Min Min. The Fire Emblem crew were clearly shameless shill picks and we can only assume that Min Min was chosen in an attempt to resurrect ARMS. I see these as unique situations as Min Min is ARMS' first rep and Fire Emblem has a rotating cast of characters so it does make sense for it to get characters often. What I'm getting at is that I do believe that if we get a first party character, it will be to promote something. I know, it might be risky logic but it is logic that is backed up by a pattern. It doesn't help that both Kirby and Donkey Kong have plentiful content too. Sure, Kirby is lacking on the modern front but Sakurai doesn't seem to be interested in incorporating modern Kirby content into the game.

Don't get me wrong. Both of these characters have their merits. They are fan favorites, Nintendo all-stars, and are arguably the next character in line for their respective series. They have their place in their series and they deserve to get in. But I feel like Nintendo needs to show more interest in them for them to be a strong consideration. It's hard for me to explain in words, but basically I feel that they are better suited as base roster picks than DLC characters. Of course they would be good DLC choices but the reality is that Smash mainly focuses on third party for the majority of the DLC. Plus they don't have much to promote right now. Donkey Kong has no new games right now and Kirby has Fighters 2 but that had little fanfare.

Overall, I will give them decent scores because they are notable Nintendo characters and their absence is felt by me and others. But right now it's kind of hard for me to imagine them as DLC characters. I will believe it when I see it, but for now I will stand by this post.

____________________

Want for Bandana Dee: 65%

I like the little dude. He is cute and I disagree with people saying that he is bland and doesn't have enough moveset potential. Look at the fan games like Smash Flash. They show off some pretty cool things that Dee can do with a spear. And Sakurai can add even more personality to him if he wants. Heck, he gave Steve and a literal plant personality. Personally, I do enjoy using Dee in the Kirby games and I have been getting into the series lately so I'm down for another Kirby rep. He would bring in more content from newer games and plus spears are just cool.

________________

Want for Dixie Kong: Abstain

Same as last time. I've played half of Donkey Kong Country and some of DKC 3 and I'm still not interested in seeing Dixie make it to playable status. She just doesn't interest me at all. But with that said, she is a Nintendo all-star and one of the biggest first party characters not playable yet. So I cannot bring myself to give her a low want score. If she got into Smash I would welcome her, but I probably would not be all that excited.

Predictions:
Rex - 75%
Gen 8 Pokemon - 15% (It feels like the time has passed for this, at least that's how I feel, so I'm expecting lower scores)

Noms:
Among Us character x10
Excitebiker x10
If I don't have enough noms due to the abstain, then just give Excitebiker 5 noms.

 

[Sari]

Abstaining on Bandana Dee

-----

Dixie Kong

Chance: 10%
A very popular first party pick on her own. If we're going by longtime popular Nintendo characters then she's definitely got that in her favor. However, we already have a lot of DK content in the game and even got K. Rool. This is not to say Dixie can't happen, but with how DK is currently represented I don't think Sakurai has a really big urge to add more content from it. Not counting the Tropical Freeze port, there hasn't been a new Donkey Kong game since the SSB4 days. I feel like both Nintendo and Sakurai would want to promote characters from either recent Switch titles or new and upcoming ones.

Want: 100%
My favorite DK character. I have very fond memories with DKC3 (the GBA version specifically) which I beat all the way to 103%. Dixie herself is such a cool character that I'm surprised Nintendo doesn't promote her as much as they do. My only hope is that if Dixie gets into Smash one day that she is not an echo of Diddy. I can maybe get being a semi-clone like Lucas, but Dixie deserves more than to just have a copy/paste moveset. Plus I don't like Diddy's moveset in Smash.

-----

Chance predictions:
Rex: 50.00%
Gen 8 Pokemon: 42.94%
Wooper: 100%

Nominations:
Curly as Quote's alt/echo x5
Trevor Philips x5

 

[Lionfranky]

Bandana Dee

Chance: 7%

Problem with DLC is that each candidate should bring enough new contents to fill the slot. Sephiroth at least had merits of FF7 lacking in contents. I can't say the same about this guy. The only way I think he can appear on dlc would be if there is another fighter pass that relies purely on fighters without much additional content. While Nintendo tries to appeal to fans as much as possible, it's also important to promote whatever financial gains they can get. I'm not sure what more they can get from Kirby at this point.

Want: Abstain

I haven't been into Kirby series that deeply. He would still bring one area that Smash needs: spear user. But, I am not attached to this guy that much. So, I can't rate him here. It has been long time since I played Kirby game.

Dixie Kong

Chance: 15%

Just like Bandana Dee, Dixie also suffers from fresh new contenst to decorate her slot. There is Tropical Freeze... but is it on Nintendo's radar to promote recent DK games? If new DK game is on horizon like the rumor says, I guess she is on the line. Even then, timing doesn't seem to line that well for her. I think she would be the next DK character to join definitely since KKrool is in. I don't think other DK character can get in her way. It makes little senes imo.

Want: 85%

DK trilogy on NES is one of my favorite series of all times. It would be nice to see trio united under Smash. I think her hair will show funny yet cool moveset. She wouldn't need special gimmick that much. We can use simple fighter for once I guess. I think she can definitely stands out from Diddy. It would disservice just to relegate her to echo slot.

Nom: Characters that don't have their games on Nintendo platform x 10
3rd party company gets more than one fighter in the same pass x 10

 

[RouffWestie]

Bandanna Dee
Chance: 5%
I rated him the same score last time he was rated, and nothing's changed in or out of his favor. He still has huge support, but I still don't believe Nintendo would spring for him as a DLC character over a star of a new 1st-party franchise or Pokemon/FE. Unless the current Kirby director takes over for the next Smash, I can't confidently say he'll ever be in.
Want: 50%
As someone who recently replayed every major Kirby title, I would love to see any new content added for the franchise. I haven't ever enjoyed playing as him, so he'd probably need to have some big changes for me to want to play him in Smash. Ideally, he'd tap into the multiple friend-based mechanics throughout the Kirby franchise alongside just spear moves.

Dixie Kong
Chance: 3%
Still a somewhat requested character who has starred in a title of her own. She did recently appear as a playable character in Tropical Freeze, so being dead can't be an excuse. But I find it too unlikely that DK was even on Nintendo's radar when deciding DLC for Smash.
Want: 100%
Been waiting for Dixie since Brawl. C
She comes from my favorite 2d platformer of all time . it'd be an actual blessing to have her and K. Rool both end up being newcomers.

 

[ahemtoday]

Bandana Waddle Dee
Chance: 10%
I feel like BWD has some stuff going for him, considering his large number of fan requests and the Kirby series seeming to be more successful than ever nowadays. Normally, I'd say that he wouldn't really fit the pattern of DLC characters we've been getting, but... is that actually true? We got Byleth, a first-party character from a represented series. We got Min Min, a first-party character from a game that wasn't super relevant at the time. And just recently, we got Sephiroth, another character from a represented series that can't even really be said to be a new "universe". When you look at those three together, BWD doesn't seem like as much of a stretch.

Want: 75%
Hey, this guy feels like the logical next Kirby addition. I'm more familiar with the GBA-to-DS era of Kirby myself, but I'd still like this guy. If only to spite people calling him a Goomba with a hat. It's probably no coincidence all that talk died out when we got Piranha Plant, a metaphorical Goomba with no hat. It'd feel weird for the next Kirby character to be anyone but him, is all I'm saying. People are saying he wouldn't have a gimmick, but I don't... really think he needs one? Neither did Byleth, really. Well, actually, I thought Byleth's moveset was kinda boring, so a better example - neither did Banjo.

Dixie Kong
Chance: 6%
I hate to say it, but not a lot has been going on with Donkey Kong in a while, which forms the key difference between BWD and Dixie's situations. Additionally, we already got K. Rool in the base game, although considering we got Corrin in Smash 4 after Robin and Lucina, I'm not sure that actually effects much. Barring an announcement of DKC6 - which I say is probably gonna start existing as soon as Retro Studios gets done with MP4 and involve K. Rool, put a chance rating of 100% on that - I think they feel like they've thrown the DK fandom enough of a bone and would prefer to focus on other fandoms and more-relevant properties.

Want: 79%
Dixie Kong is the logical next choice for a DK rep, and as someone who loved Tropical Freeze, it'd be cool to have her - whether that be as some kind of Ken-like echo of Diddy or as a full-blown fighter whose moveset involves... I dunno, the animal buddies or something. However, I have to dock her want score a percentage point because she'd get in the way of my most wanted DK fighter - Cranky Kong, a cane-bouncing rushdown fiend who plays by Melee physics like it's the good old days. It sounds like a joke, but that'd actually legitimately be cool.

---

Nominations: x18 Junpei, x2 Filia

 

[Lyncario]

Fixed schedule part 7: Steel Nintendo Run

Bandana Dee

Chances: 14%

Bandana Dee is a popular character from the Kirby series, as we already know. He is also very requested, even if the fan request he got was more for the base game than dlc outside of Japan where's he still one of the most requested characters on fan polls. So far, the positives for Bandana Dee are that he's a 1st party meaning that he would be easy to get in, he has a lot of fan demand, and also he could be a "shill pick" for the potentialy upcoming Kirby game that Hal has been working on since supposedly quite a while, and could come with a convenient timing for Bandana Dee to get into Smash, especialy if he also happens to be a main character in that game too, especialy since aparently Hal wants to make a big step forward with the next mainline Kirby, to make the Mairo 64 or OOT of Kirby that he still doesn't have espite how old his series is. However, I d'ont think that Bandana Dee would work as a shill for the next Kirby game, espcialy since we already have Kirby, Dedede, and Meta Knight as part of the roster, and well Kirby, is the protagonist of his own series. Furthermore, it's also possible that Sakurai would refuse to put a modern Kirby character in Smash, but I don't really believe that. While it's true there's not a lot of modern Kirby content, It's more because Sakurai prefers the era of Kirby he made himself rather than the modern one since he created Kirby, so of course he would have creator bias for what he did. Overall, I think that it's possible even if not too likely, a part of this being that Kirby is more in a spot similar to FE in term of sales (it gets good sales but the Smash addition would still help it posibly significantly while Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and AC don't need that help at all considering they all sell so much already).

Want: 90%

Bandana Dee is my second most wanted Kirby newcomer, behind only Marx. He could have a very fun moveset, especialy since I quite like his SSF2 moveset (despite how I don't really like the moveset of most of the "newcomers" in SSF2), and also he's very cute, I would even say adorable. And also, he could bring a lot of modern Kirby content with him, like how Sephiroth brought a lot more FFVII content than Cloud did for base game. And really I would like a new Kirby character in Smash a lot, and even if I would personaly prefer Marx, Bandana Dee still ranks very high on my list of 1st party want.

Reject humanity, return to monke

Chances: 8%

Dixie shares multiple positives with Bandana Dee, one of them being that they're both 1st party characters, and so wouldn't be costly at all to licence. Another is that this year is DK's 40th anniversary and DKC is suposedly getting a new game soon according to insiders on ResetEra, which overall, would put her in a pretty similar postion to Banda Dee on many points, with how ger series is getting a new game supposedly soon even if it's not confirmed with it being an anniversary title instead of potentialy being the Mario 64/OOT of the series, though she wouldn't be a great advertisement for the game as DK, Diddy, and K.Rool are all already in Smash and very able to "Smash shill" it. Though another point to bring is that the DK series already got a newcomer in base game that was a big deal, K.Rool, so it's possible that Nintendo prioritise giving Kirby a new character over DK. Also Dixie also has a lot ot fan request, even if not on the level of Bandana Dee from what I persnoaly saw.

And to touch the "echo fighterpass" idea where she would be a Diddy echo with changes similar to the changes between Roy and Chrom, I don't think that an echo fighter pass is hapening at all, since Sakurai said he was done with Ultimate after FP2. While the team could continue without him, I don't think that they would, as Japan is pretty big on respect and all that, and since Sakurai is quite the big name in the video game scene when it comes to developers, I don't think that they would continue his game if he stopped.

Want: 65%

I would be ok with Dixie joining Smash even if it wouldn't personaly hype me that much, she would be more a "ok, I get why she's in" type of character rather than a hype or super hype pick for me, since I'm not really that big on DKC, even when it comes to pure 2d platformers where I generaly prefer Kirby, though Celeste rose to be my favorite game of the genre ever since I finished it (Celeste is a really great game btw, even if it's hard). I would be mostly happy for one of my friend who has her as one of his most wanted. She could also have a pretty cool moveset, even as an echo. And like with how modern Kirby has minor representation, so does DKC:TF, so it would also be nice to have more contnt from that game, even if ultimately, she wouldn't hype me nearly as much as Bandana Dee for direct comparaison.

Nominations

Madeline mii x20

Predictions

Gen 8: 31.4%

Rex: 42.6%

Wooper: acquire the sire any% glitchless speedrun world record

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Wanya!
Chance: 35%
Sephiroth has showed us that characters not from "new worlds" are totally still on the table and no, Kirby certainly doesn't have too much content for it to not be eligible for a pack. One glance at the imbalance of game representation could tell you that. Remember, Min Min also proved that base spirits can be reused for a DLC spirit board. In theory, there should be very little holding Bandana Dee back at this point.

Doomers like to mention Sakurai's Kirby bias but I'm not so concerned about that with Nintendo at the helm and I can't imagine Sakurai drawing the line at BWD of all things. Others like to point out he'd be too basic as a DLC choice cause there isn't some obvious gimmick they can attach to him. That's implying every character has to have a gimmick forced upon them, last time I checked, Banjo and Byleth looked pretty down to earth. It's not like Dee has nothing to work with either. Remember elemental enhanced movesets from Star Allies? Well there you go.

A development since the last time we rated him is the confirmation of multiple Kirby projects this year. Timing plays a big role in the character making process. Now this does not automatically have to equal Smash DLC but it should allude to Bandana Waddle Dee still having a future and not going anywhere. Combined with his huge popularity, especially in Japan, puts him on a pedestal not reached by other ballot era fan requests.

Still I have to remain cautiously optimistic. There's just three spots left and while I'm certain we're getting atleast one more first-party, there's always the looming possibility I get gut-punched by a Rex or Cinderace or some pick like that.

Want: 100%
The Kirby side of Smash just won't feel right without him. He'd be so charming. He would fix modern Kirby representation. The Goomba spouters would be silenced. His reunion with the trio would be a blessing. Just give us our boi, Nintendo. We've been waiting so long.

Dixiecrat
Chance: 8%
I just don't feel the same optimism for Dixie as I do for Dee. There's no sign of a new DKC being in the works for starters. I know we now have the SNES triliogy on the Switch but I don't think it has any huge implications. With retro studios still being busy on MP4 I think the DK franchise is currently put on hold which could really hurt her chances. I also don't see Dixie having enough fan-outcry to compete with other bigger first-party candidates like Dee, Rex or Waluigi. Since she was also second banana to K.Rool, I'm also thinking Nintendo would be really hesitant to ad another DK character.

Want: 15%
Dixie is fine and cool and all but she wouldn't excite me that much. She has a guitar and a bubblepop gun but moveset wise she'd largely be Diddy with a ponytail which isn't the most hype thing in the world. Her inclusion would certainly be warrented but there are quite a few first-parties I feel deserve it a bit more. In a strange way I'd actually prefer Cranky Kong as well. She would bring more DKC content with her which is always welcome, especially if her pack would be Tropical Freeze themed.

Gen 8 mon: 39.75%
Rex: 57.64%
Henry stickmin x20