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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

SharkLord

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Ah yes, Sakura. Quite possibly one of the most divisive characters on this thread.

Even though I defended her staunchly on Day 500, I actually didn't know any of the fine details on the gameplay or the storyline or whatnot. I'll still defend her, but yeah, that was decidedly not my finest moment. Now that that's off my chest, let's do it right this time.

Sakura Wars is an interesting case. It's a truly massive series in Japan, having a metric %$#@ton of adaptations. Animation, manga, stage shows, themed cafes, you name it. If there's a form of media, chances are Sakura Wars has an adaptation there. Good luck accessing them if you're an overseas fan, though. As such, Sakura's in a unique situation in terms of speculation. She's emblematic of the lopsided popularity situations; If Smash was Japan-only, she'd be a frontrunner, but in the West, she'd be lucky to squeeze into the double digits of likelihood. Overall, I'm gonna have to give her a 30%.

But hey, at least she's in a better spot than, say, Takamaru, right? :4pacman:

But anyways. Now that we've addressed the elephant in the room, let's get down to business. Explain what this series is all about so you know her as more than that one speculation darkhorse who gets brought up a lot.

Sakura Wars is an interesting blend of genres. For starters, Sakura herself is a samurai who pilots a steampunk mech to fight off demons and is also a stage actress in her off hours. From that alone, you can tell it's a very Japanese sort of game. Sakura Wars itself is half-strategy RPG, half-dating sim, where you take the role of a commander for a branch of the Imperial Combat Revue, a defense force against the demons that disguises itself as a performance theater. The mood and emotions of your units influences their performance in battle; If you've been treating them well during the interactive segments, their stats will surge, and if they're feeling blue their performance will be rather shaky.

Sakura is a country girl and newcomer to the Flower Division of the revue. Though she can be rather awkward and clumsy at times, she is a very skilled swordfighter. Wielding the ancestral Reiken-Arataka, Sakura is skilled enough to slice water droplets in two. While she can fight on-foot, in her home series she primarily pilots a Koubu, a steampunk mech powered by magic. If you want a mech fighter, you know where to look.

Sakura Wars released in 1996 and exceeded expectations, causing Sega to heavily invest in the series. Aside from the many adaptation I listed above, it got a sequel to similar acclaim, followed by a third that focused on a Paris branch, and a fourth game that was more of an epilogue than a full fourth game, bringing the two divisions together. Notably, the four games were able to be linked together, meaning the relationships started with your units could be carried over to the next game. A fifth game was released that focused on a American branch, and was actually translated, something that was planned from the original.

Unfortunately, the franchise had been on decline for a while, and so it was put on the backburner for a while. That being said, the franchise was still quite popular, winning two polls for "Franchise revival" and "Brand investment," even while the series was on a lull. The franchise also got top billing in the Project X Zone games, and was finally revived in 2019, starring a new Imperial Combat Revue and a new Sakura. I think it's safe to say that Japan loves the franchise, and if Nintendo wants a Japan-appeal character, Sakura would be a pretty good pick. Only if they want a Japan-appeal character, though; The lopsided popularity issue means that's the only niche she can really fit.

Want score is 70%, I don't know the series very well, but it seems pretty cool and I'd play it if I could access it. Besides, magic steampunk samurai mech. What's not to like?

For further information, watch this video. It explains things much better than I could, though it was made a while ago and doesn't go over the 2019 game.

Abstain on KOS-MOS. I've done enough writing for the morning.
 

NintenZ

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Okay before I bail once again I have another thing I need to address

Looking over some of the ratings, I keep seeing Sakura and KOS-MOS being heavily rated on the basis of the company they come from and other characters from said company without people focusing on the characters’ merits themselves, not a great mentality to have imo

We don’t play Smash for companies, we play them for characters, I suggest focusing on the characters themselves and their merits instead of their “competition”, cause I highly doubt Sakurai and his team are taking into account other characters from these companies when deciding on inclusions, it’s all individualized on a case-by-case basis

That’s all I wanted to say
 

Sari

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Banjo: Not relvant for the past 20 years, yet still got it.
Banjo is one of the most requested Smash picks of all-time, has had a ton of support ranging from the first game up to his actual reveal, and was even considered for Melee. To say that KOS-MOS is in the same boat as Banjo just because both of their series have been dormant is ridiculous.

Terry: He's a Sakurai pick, and is repping the dead Fatal Fury Series, not the ongoing King of Fighters series. Heck, hes not even the main character of the KoF series. One of them yes, but its arguable others are the main character and more popular.
I thought it was pretty clear from the content Terry brought that in addition to Fatal Fury, he was also repping King of Fighters as well as SNK as a whole (his stage being a King of Fighters arena with KoF character cameos should've been a dead giveaway). Whether he's the true main character of KoF doesn't really matter because at the end of the day he's SNK's most well-known character that would be the obvious choice for Smash if they struck a deal with Nintendo. The same can't be said for KOS-MOS when other Namco characters like Lloyd exist.

Only Nintendo and Sakuari pick. If they want them, they get in. And let me tell you: Sakurai is a huge Xeno series fanboy. He has said it before, he has vastly enjoyed all the games, and has wished he had the time to put in Rex and Pyra from the newest game.
I'm going to need a source on this. Yes I know that Sakurai greatly enjoyed Xenoblade 2 as he said in that one interview, but I can't find anything online in regards to him talking about the Xeno series as a whole.

Now I can't put her higher then 30% because of other factors mentioned by other users. The Marketing assesment hurts her, but I always hated Marketing tests. It killed Darkstalkers, and ruins many games and movies. The people in marketing don't know what the **** they are doing or the actual audience.
Tetsuya Takahashi, the creator of the Xenosaga series, said that the Xenoseries didn't do well and that Xenoblade was made in response to Xenosaga's failures to quote: "make a game that players will enjoy.”

...I think it's safe to say the marketing team wasn't wrong on this one.
 

zferolie

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Banjo is one of the most requested Smash picks of all-time, has had a ton of support ranging from the first game up to his actual reveal, and was even considered for Melee. To say that KOS-MOS is in the same boat as Banjo just because both of their series have been dormant is ridiculous.


I thought it was pretty clear from the content Terry brought that in addition to Fatal Fury, he was also repping King of Fighters as well as SNK as a whole (his stage being a King of Fighters arena with KoF character cameos should've been a dead giveaway). Whether he's the true main character of KoF doesn't really matter because at the end of the day he's SNK's most well-known character that would be the obvious choice for Smash if they struck a deal with Nintendo. The same can't be said for KOS-MOS when other Namco characters like Lloyd exist.


I'm going to need a source on this. Yes I know that Sakurai greatly enjoyed Xenoblade 2 as he said in that one interview, but I can't find anything online in regards to him talking about the Xeno series as a whole.


Tetsuya Takahashi, the creator of the Xenosaga series, said that the Xenoseries didn't do well and that Xenoblade was made in response to Xenosaga's failures to quote: "make a game that players will enjoy.”

...I think it's safe to say the marketing team wasn't wrong on this one.

Oh I know banjo was a huge fan request, but again, the main point people are saying against KOS-MOS, is that the series is dead and there are no more games planned, and Banjo fits that bill 100% its Hypcritical to say another series has no chance when another in the game was dead for longer.

I mostly was putting Terry in there to show the other side of the spectrum, that it doesn't have to be a huge fan request to get in. Banjo was the opposite in a sense, a dead series but huge fan, while terry is an alive series, not that huge, but low fan request. Really I want to show these fan rules people keep making are assine, and people need to stop judging characters byt that, or at least as strongly. the only rules that are 100% for sure is they have to original from a video game, and Sakurai wants to make them playable. thats it.

I know I read this awhile ago, he was gushing about past XENO games somewhere, close to Rex's reveal I think?

And yeah I know the series didn't sell well, but KOS-MOS herself is still very popular to Namco and Monolith. there is a reason why merch keeps being made, she keeps being put in crossovers, and shes front and center of the 20th anniversery picture for Monolith soft.



you forgot rex
I thought people were still saying her that Miicostumes disconfirm. I don't think they do but I thought thats what most people on this thread beleived
 
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DrifloonEmpire

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“They’re bringing back older franchises and Sakura Wars is not among them”

uhh sure buddy

I wasn't sure what the year this was released was so thank you for correcting me there. Nonetheless, it isn't being pushed nearly to the extent of Yakuza or Puyo Puyo (ESPECIALLY Puyo, given that it's now an eSport at Western events). Meanwhile you don't see much marketing for Sakura Wars, nor do you see people talking about it outside your bubble. Furthermore, why would Nintendo choose to advertise the PS4 exclusive over the successful Puyo Tetris and Champions games that are readily available on Switch? Yes, we have Joker and Sephiroth, but Sakurai more than likely influenced Nintendo to go with Joker over SMT (since he loves Persona 5) when choosing an Atlus rep (and I cannot see Sakurai giving the same treatment to Sakura Wars). Meanwhile even if the Switch doesn't have FF7 Remake, it still has the original, and Sephiroth is such a big deal that he more than makes up for it. You can't play the Roy card either. FE was completely non-localized on Melee's release. Meanwhile Sakura Wars has had two games localized already and neither of them made any kind of splash in the west. If you really think that Sakura would be chosen, especially when SEGA has LOADS of competition more beneficial to Nintendo and with WAY more financial potential, then you have to be as delusional as the Geno thread was.


DAB.jpg
 
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SharkLord

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Meanwhile Sakura Wars has had two games localized already and neither of them made any kind of splash in the west. If you really think that Sakura would be chosen, especially when SEGA has LOADS of competition more beneficial to Nintendo and with WAY more financial potential, then you have to be as delusional as the Geno thread was.



View attachment 298106
Y'know, this just seems unnecessarily mean-spirited and generalizing on two different fronts
 
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Dan Quixote

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Hot damn y'all really hate KOS-MOS don't you? It seems that a lot of responses so far cite the reason as her (or Sakura) possibly taking a spot in FP2 from another new fighter from the same third-party company that you want. idk about that attitude tbh, and it introduces a weird external factor into your "want' scores. Besides we've already gotten a second new fighter from Microsoft and Square Enix and even Nintendo themselves, so I don't think there's a quota here.

fun with acronyms

CHANCE - 20%
That said however... Yeah Xenosaga just doesn't have the clout it used to. I remember in the mid 2000s when I was first getting into epic gaming and went on the Internet, KOS-MOS was one of the more popular characters out there. Anecdotal evidence, sure, but I'm sure anyone my age can confirm seeing KOS-MOS's popularity during that era. For the record, KOS-MOS has a Wikipedia article dedicated to her. Apparently Xenosaga didn't sell too well, but sales don't mean everything. Sometimes a certain aspect of any media franchise might eclipse the thing it came from. Y'know, like Steve Urkel. You know him, but do you even remember what show he was from? That's why I don't really care about those statements from the devs that a Xenosaga remake wouldn't sell. Maybe they're right, but KOS-MOS as a video game character has evolved past Xenosaga. The main kicker here is just that it's been too dang long! Banjo-Kazooie was also a dead franchise when those two were added, but they had the special case of being requested constantly for a solid 20 years. It took a lot coming together perfectly and an army of fans to get those in, especially as DLC. KOS-MOS has a pretty solid legacy, lots of gamers could recognize her on sight. Yet it's been so long since her heyday, a lot of other characters with similar legacies have outlasted her. Without a connection to the currently smash hit Xenoblade Chronicles series, this would be 10%.

WANT - 35%
Hey she's pretty cool though. Brief section since I haven't touched Xenosaga myself, but KOS-MOS is a character I've known for a while. Her design is cool and iconic, she has a lot of sci-fi weapons at her disposal, and while Rex is obviously the "Xeno" character I and most of us have the most current connection to, KOS-MOS would be pretty shocking in a hype kind of way. Plus maybe it'd give Xenosaga a push into popularity, making those remasters actually worth it lol

Korekiyo Shinguji

CHANCE - 10%
Sakura Wars eh? That's not a game I've thought of in a long time now. I'll reiterate a point from my KOS-MOS section here, and that's that popularity often goes past sales. I know this never got localized for the longest time, but the series is still somewhat recognizable among gamers, especially for codifying a lot of current traits of visual novels and dating sims. So it holds a lot of respect, but sadly not a lot of fans. It looks interesting, but the nicheness of this series really just kicks it in the shins here. Doesn't help that Sakura Shinguji herself is not really that popular separated from Sakura Wars. I know I stated in my opener that you shouldn't base your opinions off of someone "taking a spot" from your fav, but Sega is definitely one of the most "let's promote our current stuff!" companies in Smash, so they'd likely gloss over Sakura here.

WANT - 15%
Unlike, KOS-MOS, I was never really introduced to Sakura in any notable way. I knew about Sakura Wars, especially since I love visual novels, but not much about it. I can see that she'd have an interesting moveset with her mech and swordplay, and she has an appealing design. Oddly enough her design is super basic for Japanese games but not really represented in Smash yet. I just have little to no personal connection to her, so the biggest hype factor would be introducing a new franchise into Smash which is always welcome.

Nominations: Tetra x10, a 4X strategy rep x10

Predictions: Dante 50%, Phoenix Wright 33%, Monster Hunter 55%
 

Blankiturayman

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KOS-MOS
Chance: 10%
Here she is again. I'd say my rating as it is doesn't change; as you guys know the chance scores I've been putting recently have all been fairly low due to the few spots. That being said, KOS-MOS hails from Xenosaga, Monolith Soft's very first project as a standalone studio. While they had high expectations at first (6 episodes? Damn man) eventually they ended up making just 3. Not a bad amount. Over the years there's been a fairly small want for a remaster of the games, which sadly, seems like it can't go through according to Harada from Bandai Namco, which owns the series' IP at the moment. While Xenosaga itself isn't doing so hot, the same can't be said for KOS-MOS.

Whenever Monolith gets the chance, they add her into crossover games, let her appear in cameos and whatnot. It's to the point that even in the latest "Xeno" entry, XB2, she appeared as a "guest" Blade, completely new design and all (as well as T-elos). Even in the latest Monolith Soft anniversary artwork, it's KOS-MOS who appears front and center. It's clear they care for her. Now, would this be of any importance to Nintendo themselves, who are making the selections? Probably. Do I feel Rex or some other Xeno character is likelier for Nintendo to pick? Sure why not. I just wouldn't call KOS-MOS impossible.

Want: 100%
KOS-MOS is pretty cool. I've played Xenosaga I and the two Project X Zone games where she was in. Generally I like robot characters and KOS-MOS was no exception. She's got loads of weapons to make a moveset, reminding me a little of Zero who was rated not too long ago. I liked the game and I like her, so I think it'd be pretty cool to see her. Sure she's no "big" character or whatever but it'd be pretty nice. Plus, while little, Xenosaga also has its fair share of good music, and depending on what stage they chose it could be pretty fun. Overall I'd be most stoked to see what they do with her moveset since she can do a lot.

KOS-MOS also has a lot of designs, but if you ask me, I'd hope they focus on Ver. 1, RE from XC2, and Ver. 4. I'd say these are the nicest ones. She's definitely my go-to pick for "Xeno". Seconding her, I think Fei would be cool as unlikely as he is.

Sakura
Chance: 10%
Ahh, Segata Sanshiro's girlfriend. While Sakura Wars' popularity is mainly in Japan, it definitely is not nonexistent elsewhere. Sure it's not huge by any means but it's clear SEGA wants to do something with it. The newest Sakura Wars game was actually localized, which is something that had not happened in a while. As far as I'm aware of, the first few games were pretty well received on Japan, despite being on the late Saturn. Before the newest game, the only one to be localized was "So Long, My Love" which apparently didn't do all that well. Nonetheless, they're taking a shot at the series again. While I'm not confident on it either, it's possible Nintendo picks this character as more of a "Japan" pick while also helping it expand.

Admittedly, the Nintendo connection isn't highly there, but "So Long, My Love" did come out on Wii, even if it was years ago. Sakura has also appeared in crossovers that are on Nintendo games, but that's a little iffier to count. All in all, if they were to pick her I'm sure it'd be due to the overall appeal. It's certainly possible.

Want: 70%
I've warmed up to her over time. Crossover games certainly helped, and I like the main themes the games have. I'm not super familiar with all the games so the score isn't THAT high, but when it comes to having her playable in Smash I think she'd be cool. Not near my top picks or anything like that but I'd like her. What I'd like the most is if they somehow incorporate her mecha into battle. It'd be pretty interesting to have a character like that. Also from what I've seen Sakura herself is pretty endearing.

Nominations:
Worms x20

Predictions:
Monster Hunter: 47%
Dante: 33%
Phoenix Wright: 21%
Should be fun to see these tomorrow.
 

Jomosensual

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Man, I got to say, Smash boards a full of idiots who hate JRPG characters it seems like. If it isn;t Sora, Ryu, or Geno, I don't want them basically.
Might want to check what character has the highest satisfaction score for DLC before saying garbage like this
Everyone keeps mentioning their own dumb ass fan rules is sad. Is KOS-MOS or Sakura highly likely? Probably not, but 0's for them mostly? Sad sad people.
What fan rules? The market survey failing isn't a fan rule, it's an actual tangible thing that happened.
Terry: He's a Sakurai pick, and is repping the dead Fatal Fury Series, not the ongoing King of Fighters series. Heck, hes not even the main character of the KoF series. One of them yes, but its arguable others are the main character and more popular.
Do you know why he's a Sakurai pick? It's because KoF heavily influenced Smash as a whole. Kinda an important fact you're leaving out there.
 

fogbadge

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I thought people were still saying her that Miicostumes disconfirm. I don't think they do but I thought thats what most people on this thread beleived
well if i recall the last time we rated him most people viewed him as one of the more likely characters
 

Champion of Hyrule

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I wasn't sure what the year this was released was so thank you for correcting me there. Nonetheless, it isn't being pushed nearly to the extent of Yakuza or Puyo Puyo (ESPECIALLY Puyo, given that it's now an eSport at Western events). Meanwhile you don't see much marketing for Sakura Wars, nor do you see people talking about it outside your bubble. Furthermore, why would Nintendo choose to advertise the PS4 exclusive over the successful Puyo Tetris and Champions games that are readily available on Switch? Yes, we have Joker and Sephiroth, but Sakurai more than likely influenced Nintendo to go with Joker over SMT (since he loves Persona 5) when choosing an Atlus rep (and I cannot see Sakurai giving the same treatment to Sakura Wars). Meanwhile even if the Switch doesn't have FF7 Remake, it still has the original, and Sephiroth is such a big deal that he more than makes up for it. You can't play the Roy card either. FE was completely non-localized on Melee's release. Meanwhile Sakura Wars has had two games localized already and neither of them made any kind of splash in the west. If you really think that Sakura would be chosen, especially when SEGA has LOADS of competition more beneficial to Nintendo and with WAY more financial potential, then you have to be as delusional as the Geno thread was.


Woah, way to assume things buddy. I’m laughing my ass off here because Arle, who you put an image of dabbing, is literally my most wanted potentialSmash newcomer

Nice try dude, maybe next time don’t get so aggressive against someone who was just correcting one mistake you’ve made in a post
 

Neosonic97

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I'm abstaining on Sakura, due to lack of familiarity with Sakura Wars, but for the other...?

KOS-MOS
Chance: 10%

Generally speaking, the main obstacle KOS-MOS faces is simple: She just has way, way too much competition, and Bamco already has plenty of other works that are far more likely to get representatives than Xenosaga, lest we forget that Tekken, Soul Calibur, Tales and Digimon are things. Because if we're getting a rep from Namco Bandai at this point, it's going to be from one of those four series. Granted, KOS-MOS does have a connection to Nintendo through being playable in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, but unfortunately that's probably just not going to be enough. Given the series' recent resurgence and of course the rivalry factor I'd say the most likely rep of the bunch is Agumon (also helped by the fact that Agumon is the one with the most connections to Nintendo through the variety of Digimon games that have appeared on Nintendo Consoles), but eh, I could be wrong.

Want: 50%

I'm honestly fine either way. I don't have a huge connection to KOS-MOS, but I can see why people want her, and do think she'd be a cool addition to the cast. My main issue with her is her design- there's not really much doubt that KOS-MOS is kind of fanservice-y, and, lest we forget, that kind of design is what left Mai Shiranui snubbed from appearing even as a cameo in Terry's stage. Well, that and Lloyd/Yuri, Nightmare and Agumon exist.


Speaking of Agumon...

Noms: Agumon Rerate x5
 
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DrifloonEmpire

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Woah, way to assume things buddy. I’m laughing my ass off here because Arle, who you put an image of dabbing, is literally my most wanted potentialSmash newcomer

Nice try dude, maybe next time don’t get so aggressive against someone who was just correcting one mistake you’ve made in a post
I did thank you for correcting my mistake, but you could've chosen better wording then, you sounded a bit condescending.
 
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warpenguin55

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KOSMOS
Chance: 0%
Bandai-Namco doesn't think it would be profitable to remake Xenosaga. That's a death sentence. Why would they pick her over Lloyd or a Soulcalibur rep when they think her franchise isn't worth bringing back? Why would they promote something they don't think is profitable? Exactly, they wouldn't.

Want: 0%
Nah, I'm good. Looking at Steve and Sephiroth, it looks like Nintendo is going for iconic characters for this pass. Lloyd or Heihachi would fit the bill better and have more name value.


Abstain from Sakura

Man, I got to say, Smash boards a full of idiots who hate JRPG characters it seems like.

BTW Persona 5 and FF7R are my 2nd and 3rd favorite games. Or they were, since I clearly hate JRPG's now. **** Joker and Sephiroth, worst additions to smash I've ever seen. I put 100 hours into XB2 and DQ11 and hated every single one. Now that you mention it, XB Definitive is annoying the hell out of me as well. I just can't stop buying games from my least favorite genre. It's like an addiction. If you need me I'll be checking into rehab.
 

NintenZ

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FE was completely non-localized on Melee's release. Meanwhile Sakura Wars has had two games localized already
I wasn’t going to comment on this originally but you realize that literally helps her case since that means her series is accessible in the West in contrast to FE... Right...?
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Abstain on both. I don't know enough to legitimately rate them. And I'm not saying this because of the next line, which is its own thought.

(Also, you shouldn't respond to flaming. Just report it. They were trying to cause trouble. Don't take the obvious bait and let the mods handle it).

Noms: Fulgore x 5
 

DrifloonEmpire

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I wasn’t going to comment on this originally but you realize that literally helps her case since that means her series is accessible in the West in contrast to FE... Right...?
One game, not her entire franchise. Now maybe this could grow in the future, but for the time being its' success still remains limited to Japan.
 

NintenZ

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One game, not her entire franchise. Now maybe this could grow in the future, but for the time being its' success still remains limited to Japan.
It was two games, not that it really matters since as I stated I was less focused on the success aspect and more on the accessibility aspect.

Also I do want to ask
even similarities with western games like Mass Effect are purely coincidental.
Would you please provide a source on this where the developers at BioWare specifically mention the similarities between the two are purely coincidental?
 

DrifloonEmpire

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It was two games, not that it really matters since as I stated I was less focused on the success aspect and more on the accessibility aspect.

Also I do want to ask

Would you please provide a source on this where the developers at BioWare specifically mention the similarities between the two are purely coincidental?
It's not a statement coming from them, it's simply a logical conclusion. Bioware's developers are primarily Western, and I highly doubt they even had access to or played Sakura Wars at all. Most of Mass Effect's inspiration comes from old Western CPRGs, and Sakura Wars doesn't get credit every time a game has an in-depth relationship system. It's like trying to say that the concept of alchemy in a game automatically means that it was influenced by the Atelier series. It's like convergent evolution, two or more different parties created similar concept independant of each other.
 

SharkLord

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It's not a statement coming from them, it's simply a logical conclusion. Bioware's developers are primarily Western, and I highly doubt they even had access to or played Sakura Wars at all. Most of Mass Effect's inspiration comes from old Western CPRGs, and Sakura Wars doesn't get credit every time a game has an in-depth relationship system. It's like trying to say that the concept of alchemy in a game automatically means that it was influenced by the Atelier series. It's like convergent evolution, two or more different parties created similar concept independant of each other.
Or it could be a chain of influences. Sakura Wars creates social elements -> Some other games implement social elements as well and get ported to the West -> Bioware plays those ported games and implements the social elements into Mass Effect.

Granted, I'm not an expert on this subject matter so I could be wrong 🤷‍♂️
 
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chocolatejr9

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Or it could be a chain of influences. Sakura Wars creates social elements -> Some other games implements social elements as well and gets ported to the West -> Bioware plays those ported games and implements the social elements into Mass Effect.

Granted, I'm not an expert on this subject matter so I could be wrong 🤷‍♂️
How about we find a list of games confirmed to have influenced Mass Effect and figure it out from there?
 

DrifloonEmpire

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Or it could be a chain of influences. Sakura Wars creates social elements -> Some other games implement social elements as well and get ported to the West -> Bioware plays those ported games and implements the social elements into Mass Effect.

Granted, I'm not an expert on this subject matter so I could be wrong 🤷‍♂️
This stuff is complicated, and we may never truly know. I was just making the point that just because a game has in-depth social elements doesn't mean that it's attributed to Sakura Wars.
 

Rie Sonomura

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KOS-MOS

Chance: 10%. Yes, I do admit that the remaster being scrapped due to a lack of potential market interest doesn't look good for her, and that her series is over. She is in several crossovers, including but not limited to Xenoblade 2, but that might not be enough.

Want: 100% That being said, I've been a huge fan of her since playing Xenosaga episode I for PS2. XSI was just... it took 14-year-old-me's breath away with the setting, storytelling, and gameplay. I'd also love to see Xenosaga as a whole make a triumphant return someday.

Sakura Shinguji:
Abstain for both, I am unfamiliar with the character.

Rating:
League of Legends rep x5
 

NintenZ

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It's not a statement coming from them, it's simply a logical conclusion. Bioware's developers are primarily Western, and I highly doubt they even had access to or played Sakura Wars at all. Most of Mass Effect's inspiration comes from old Western CPRGs, and Sakura Wars doesn't get credit every time a game has an in-depth relationship system. It's like trying to say that the concept of alchemy in a game automatically means that it was influenced by the Atelier series. It's like convergent evolution, two or more different parties created similar concept independant of each other.
I’m going to be perfectly honest this isn’t exactly the most telling and kinda borders on making a baseless claim since you said it in a definite sense

For the record it’s not the social aspects on their own that have similarities to Sakura Wars, two notable examples of their similarities are the fact you can transfer data between titles to continue your progress (something that was a pretty distinct feature of Sakura Wars) and probably the most striking one is the similarities between the LIPS system and the dialogue tree.

The LIPS system in Sakura Wars stood for the Live and Interactive Picture System where you were given a choice between three options and the game would give you a short amount of time to answer the question and depending on how you answer it would affect story choices, giving a sense of pressure towards the player. It’s funny because Mass Effect did that same thing where you have a dialogue tree and are given a short amount of time to answer a question that might affect story choices, and when you put them side to side
C074A318-0533-46FE-81F3-E4C0F1AB694C.jpeg

60B5C7FB-17DD-48A8-B2D5-FD8E4915D785.png

You kinda notice the similarities.

The two are noticeably similar in concept and execution, if that’s purely a coincidence then that’s sure a wild coincidence, but without a statement from the developers we can never really know for sure and instead just make our own inferences.
 
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DrifloonEmpire

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I’m perfectly honest this isn’t exactly the most telling and kinda borders on making a baseless claim

For the record it’s not the social aspects on their own that have similarities to Sakura Wars, two notable examples of their similarities are the fact you can transfer data between titles to continue your progress (something that was a pretty distinct feature of Sakura Wars) and probably the most striking one is the similarities between the LIPS system and the dialogue tree.

The LIPS system in Sakura Wars stood for the Live and Interactive Picture System where you were given a choice between three options and the game would give you a short amount of time to answer the question and depending on how you answer it would affect story choices, giving a sense of pressure towards the player. It’s funny because Mass Effect did that same thing where you have a dialogue tree and are given a short amount of time to answer a question that might affect story choices, and when you put them side to side
View attachment 298114
View attachment 298115
You kinda notice the similarities.

The two are noticeably similar in concept and execution, if that’s purely a coincidence then that’s sure a wild coincidence, but without a statement from the developers we can never really know for sure and instead just make our own inferences.
We can make our own inferences, but I still think it's a matter of convergent evolution. Yes, I can't disprove it, but you can't prove it either. There's nothing definitively linking Mass Effect's development team and concepting to Sakura Wars. So all we can do is make guesses. If there's no definitivve link, then your claim is just as baseless as mine.

I know this isn't a court of law, but in the words of Miles Edgeworth, "If you don't have evidence, you don't have ANYTHING."
 

NintenZ

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We can make our own inferences, but I still think it's a matter of convergent evolution. Yes, I can't disprove it, but you can't prove it either. There's nothing definitively linking Mass Effect's development team and concepting to Sakura Wars. So all we can do is make guesses. If there's no definitivve link, then your claim is just as baseless as mine.

I know this isn't a court of law, but in the words of Miles Edgeworth, "If you don't have evidence, you don't have ANYTHING."
Yeah I guess that’s fair, we can agree to disagree though I do think the similarities are notable at the very least which why I wanted to point them out
 

AugustusB

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A RTC I am interested in...here it goes!

KOS-MOS, "That one robot waifu"

Chances: 65%
I'll be the crazy one here and say she has a pretty decent shot at being in the pass. Her representation would not only be a Namco rep, but double as a Monolith rep at that. Of course, there are "bigger" characters for Namco to choose from. Lloyd is the biggest one, however, with Heihach AND Geno being unceremoniously Mii Costumed, I think it is safe to say that the costume is returning. Soul Calibur would be the next big one, which I could not argue its legitimacy. That being said, I think the door is opened a little more than people are giving KOS-MOS credit for. She is a literal walking swiss army knife...with guns. That is pretty neat.

Wants - 100%
I took a chance with this game many years ago and I am glad I did. The story telling is incredible and kept me wanting to find out more. Of course I would tell others to, perhaps, read up on Xenosaga 2. That game started strong, but the difficulty spike (Looking at you Olgua!!!) is ridiculous. Xenosaga 3 is the best IMO with story telling and gameplay.

Abstaining on Sakura since I have not played their games. Would not be fair if I didn't play their game.

Nominations... GoodGrief741 GoodGrief741 dealers choice ;)
 

I.D.

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Am I really rating her a third time, apparently so

Kose Mose
Chance: 16.666666666667%. She is Monolith's mascot. Monolith has not received any meaningful content in Ultimate so far. Not like any of this means anything.

Want: 50%. R-Cannon go pew pew. R-Blade go slash slash.

Sahkoorah
Chance: 40%. Sakura Taisen is a big phenomenon in Japan. It had a cafe, and anime and musicals and stuff.

Want: Dunno, 25%. Why did her game skip switch again? I think I would have bought it. Maybe.

Don't @ me
 

TCT~Phantom

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KOS MOS

Before I go in depth, I wanna address some claims I have seen certain users make about this thread and rating KOS MOS in general.

First off, let me show you all this.

X1.jpg


I have played through Xenosaga 1. I ordered a copy of Xenosaga 2 in the mail. Once COVID is over and I have more disposable income, I will get Xenosaga III, but that game is hella expensive. I also have Xenogears in my top five favorite games of all time.

I know some people claim that people are "haters" because they give a character a low want score or chance score. This is a debate thread first and foremost. You do not have to agree with anyone's scores. If you want to argue the finer points, so long as you do so respectfully that is completely fine. TBH, I usually end up linking the RTC thread in support threads for certain days specifically so a character's fans can make their case. The main reason I did not today was I was busy.

I will also say that some character's have dramatically done better in this thread due to repeated debate and discussion. If you want examples for this game, Adol who we rated yesterday is a great example of this. Adol's fans were able to make a very strong case for the character that ended up convincing many people, myself included, in their ratings.

Essentially what I am saying is this is at the end of the day a forum game/debate thread. RTC has had a mixed history of predicting characters. That being said, I think it is important to be respectful in terms of debate. Just because someone disagrees with you or critiques your argument, that does not mean they are hating on your characters. If someone points out the flaws in your argument, counteract those points with more evidence that can support your conclusion.

Now with that said, onto her rating.

2.5% Chance

Look, the meat of this is the fact that while KOS MOS does appear in a lot of Namco crossovers, her franchise is kind of...dead right now. I know someone will bring up Banjo or Terry, but those situations are honestly super different. Banjo has the benefit of being one of the single most popular requests for Smash of all time. Seriously, look at the number of fan polls where Banjo got top five, if not outright won, prior to his confirmation. I know KOS MOS has her fans, but if we are being honest the huge amount of fan demand Banjo had, especially on the ballot, is what got him in. In terms of Terry, I think that pick is less of how Fatal Fury is dead but more of SNK as a whole. Terry still shows up in their fighters because he is their mascot. Terry is effectively not just a Fatal Fury rep, but an SNK rep at large. SNK still is pumping out fighting games to this day and re releasing their old ones, so saying Terry is dead I feel is disingenuous.

Xenosaga as of this writing is a dead franchise. Namco right now does not see the value in re releasing/remastering it. Maybe it will happen someday, but right now the Xenosaga franchise is kind of dead. The sales at the time also leave some room to be desired. The best selling game, Xenosaga 1, managed to sell over a million worldwide. That being said, the second game under preformed. The third game also sold poorly, although I would say part of this is it is a PS2 game that was in a smaller franchise released in 2006. At the end of the day, Xenosaga is a very small franchise in and of itself that has not had a game in over a decade.

While KOS MOS has had some spin off appearences, I think it is important to remember that Monolith Soft made a lot of them, like Super Robot Wars, Namco X Capcom, and Project X Zone. It is clear that Monolith Soft has a soft spot for her, but unfortunately they are not the ones at the end of the day choosing the characters. Maybe Nintendo would throw Monolith Soft a bone after buying them out, but even then that would seem unlikely in my eyes given how Nintendo has selected DLC up to this point.

Another factor that hurts KOS MOS is a simple one: we could get a different Namco character. Dark Souls, Tales, Soul Calibur, just to name a few franchises, are undeniably more successful franchises than Xenosaga and could easily end up getting a rep in Smash. Now, while I am a strong believer that we likely will end up getting more DLC after FP2, I doubt we would double dip on Namco in the same pass. Combine that with mild skepticism on a Namco pick in general due to us getting the Heihachi mii costume back, and I have my reservations for this pass. I know some people think that mentioning that we could get a different character is dumb given what I saw some people post, but the logic makes sense at least for chance.

One final thing I want to take note of is the 5chan leak that mentioned Crash, Sephiroth, KOS MOS, and Reimu. I would say keep an eye on it since I was one of the only people saying Sephiroth had a realistic chance. The leak is fragile, if any of those characters is not announced next, it is a dead leak. Text leaks are often wrong anyway. However, if we get Reimu and to a lesser extent Crash (mainly because Crash is one of the most likely characters in my eyes) next, that leak has a lot more of my attention.

Overall, you have a character that ultimately does not seem to me to be likely. Maybe if we did get a Xenosaga port/hd remaster I would change my tune. Maybe if that one 5chan leak ends up true I would also change my tune. For now, she just does not seem likely to me.

100% Want

Tbh, I honestly considered abstaining from this until I finished the series. Most of my knowledge is limited to Xenosaga 1 right now, as I have purposefully tried to avoid spoilers for these games. That being said, I think KOS MOS is a cool character that I would enjoy to play as. It is hard to explain, but I think the character would just be fun to play as. Throw in some good music and I am sold.

I will say though the other reason I considered abstaining is just how nasty some of the KOS MOS supporters have been. I'll say that the ones that have posted in this thread so far have been relatively civil. That being said, in the KOS MOS thread I have seen some very toxic comments...because people think KOS MOS is not likely. You can always have some gripes with how the process goes, but there are one or two posts I saw that took things way too far. That sort of toxic mentality almost made me want to abstain. But I like the character enough that I chose not to.

Now for Sakura.

10% Chance

I originally was going to give Sakura a 5%, but after further review I bumped it up a bit. Sakura Wars is an influencial game and has had some attempts to break into the West with V and the newest game on PS4. That being said, it is still a very Japanese locked franchise that is not easily accessible to people in the west. Sakura also suffers competitions competition from other Sega choices, like Eggman, Arle, Axel Stone, and even a SMTV rep. Could it happen? Potentially, but I would not bet on it.

90% Want
Perkilator Perkilator and SharkLord SharkLord thank you for suggesting this series, played the first game on the saturn recently and I can see the appeal. Plan to play the others soon, but it is on my backloge. Music is aight too. I guess my main concern is she might only use her Kobu in her final smash, though I would prefer it play more of a role in her moveset though. Other than that, its an old school choice that RTC helped me warm up towards. I do not have as much to say on her as I do KOS MOS, but she's aight.

Neku x 10
Mike Haggar x 10
 

NintenZ

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You know what, I’m in a good mood so I’m gonna rate KOS-MOS

Chance: 40%

Okay I know what you’re all thinking, why would I rate a character like this this high? Well simply put it’s because of Monolith Soft themselves. Yeah I know her series is finished and I know the remasters were blocked by Namco. However I think Monolith still has interest in the character. For one she headlines the company artwork for Monolith Soft’s anniversary page, for another she’s in Xenoblade 2 and get this, has a scale model of herself from that game. Only Pyra and Mythra have scale models thus far so to see a character considered secondary have one like that is pretty insane. I do believe Tetsuya Takahashi has a lot of interest in the character, considering Yabuki asked for Min Min I could see the same thing happening where he asks for KOS-MOS. However, the reason I’m uncertain is because of her competition from her own franchise. Simply put, while she was in Xenoblade 2, that game has rotated out of relevancy and now 1 is the most relevant now, because of that I feel she has the most competition from Melia and Fiora so I’m uncertain if they’d go for KOS-MOS. Nonetheless she’s still on the back of my mind and I’m not ruling her out.

Want: 100%
I haven’t played Xenosaga (being a Xeno fan that’s probably a crime somewhere) but I would love KOS-MOS going off her Xenoblade 2 appearance alone where she helped me get through some of the toughest parts of the game (Spirit Crucible being a prime example), I eventually do want to play her games though once I find an affordable copy but at the moment I’m completely sold on her. She’d be a kickass addition.

I guess I’ll nom too

Kaede Akamatsu (20x)
 
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