Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Drason]

Phoenix Wright:
Chance:65%
He has a pretty storied history on Nintendo consoles and his company, Capcom, has a pretty good relationship with Nintendo. The series has the vast majority of their games on Nintendo characters while being heavily requested so I say he has a pretty good chance. He has an interesting choice of where to pull his moves from considering his entire attorney character. They'll probably take from his Marvel Vs Capcom appearance or place more callbacks to his original games.
Want: 70%
I'm mostly interested in what they could possibly do with his moveset. Will they essentially make him a Loudred where he'll scream his attacks? Or will it be something like ACT 2 Echoes where his words will produce a kind of attack for it.
Dante
Chance:40%
The pizza loving gun-slinger himself. Not much to say here, he's really popular and iconic staple in gaming, has a popular game on a Nintendo console. Dude really has a lot going for him, the only thing that can really hold him back are the other more popular character requested ahead of him.
Want: 80%
I love Dante so I just want to hear what witty or just straight funny stuff that he'll say in the game. I also want to know his moveset and all the combos that you can do with him considerin g how heavy the games emphasize combat.
Ninja Gaiden:
I know nothing. Abstain
Nom: Nightmare (SoulCalibur)

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Dante Chance: 35%

This guy has been "leaked" and rumored more times than I can count, support is definitely there, and I doubt that Capcom wouldn't think of it, but there's still really not much to suggest that this particular character is gonna join the fight.

There's not much suggesting he has no chance, either. Dante's a tough one.

Want: 50%

I'm indifferent to this one.

Phoenix Wright Chance 55%:

Ace Attorney is a pretty damn popular and successful series with tons of fans and attention online and in the media, and Wright is by far the icon of the franchise. He's not a shoo-in but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he made it in. I find his odds much more likely than Dante simply because he has a lot more going for him, imo.

Want: 80%

Ace Attorney's great. I'm not sure how he'd fight in Smash, compared to how he fights in other fighting games that he actually has gotten into before, but I'm plenty willing to give him a shot. I'm sure Sakurai could create a fun, inventive and faithful moveset for the character.

Abstaining on Ryu Hayabusa. I know literally nothing about Ninja Gaiden.

Shantae Prediction: 7.52%

Quote Prediction: 1.02%

Nominations: The Heavy x5

 

[Nemuresu]

Dante:
Chance 50%-Part of me still thinks that the DMC trilogy coming to Switch had some sort of impact. Dante's demands were clearly noisy, and even without that I just can't imagine another Capcom character that isn't him. He's just far more of a mascot to his company than Amaterasu, the guy to be rated next, Frank West and several other characters.
Want: 50%-I like the guy, but he's not my cup of tea, even if he could be just as crazy as in UMvC3/MvCI as far as moveset goes. I do however, like the idea of him crossing over with characters like Link and Bayonetta.

The other Ryu:
Chance: 45%-Even if all rumours with him have gone down, I still see him having a chance just by his character pedigree alone. He's a classic Nintendo character that still appears in the latest Dynasty Warriors and has his games in the NSO service.
Want: 10%-I like what possible moveset he can have, specially the fire magic. But otherwise, not really that interested on what he brings.

Mr. Wright:
Chance: 40%-Yeah, I don't see what makes this guy more likely than Dante when there's, honestly nothing pointing out or suggesting so. Not the presence in games, not recent releases (in fact, what happened to the AA collection that was going to come to modern consoles?) aside from the recent collection, not even in character demand, since polls have shown Dante's the more popular pick. Maybe in the pre-Cloud days I could've imagined this guy getting a better shot, but now? Not really.
Want: 0%-I'm still sour over what happened with him in the UMvC3 days. And even if I weren't, I didn't like how he worked in that game or Project X Zone 2. I don't find him to be a fun character to play as at all, even if he were somehow completely different from his Marvel version.

Nominations: Mega Man Zero x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

not recent releases (in fact, what happened to the AA collection that was going to come to modern consoles?)

Came out last year.

not even in character demand, since polls have shown Dante's the more popular pick

Maybe right now, but not in any moment when that might have factored into their decision-making.

 

[Megadoomer]

Dante (a.k.a. Wacky Wahoo Pizza Man)

Chance: 50% - on one hand, he has a ton of material to work with when it comes to a fighting game, arguably more than any Capcom character from a series that isn't already in Smash. On the other hand, there's a lot of competition just within Capcom, and while the interview with Itsuno (which was followed up by the announcement of DMC1 on the Switch about two months later, which seems like way too quick of a turnaround to be a coincidence) seems promising, I'm not sure if it came too late for him to be considered. I know that a game or series having a presence on a Nintendo console is more of a formality than anything - Joker first appeared on a Nintendo console about a week before his Smash announcement - and I have no idea when the Fighters Pass 2 line-up was finalized, but his inclusion definitely doesn't seem like a sure thing.

Want: 100% - I played through the Devil May Cry HD Collection a few years ago to see where the Bayonetta series came from. All it took was the first three games for me to basically come up with three movesets for the guy, and now that I've beaten DMC1-5, he's easily in my top three most wanted. Even if they stuck with the absolute basics (Ebony and Ivory, one of his swords), there would be so much that they could do with him in terms of his moves, and he would be a ton of fun to play as based on how he controls in the Devil May Cry games and Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

Phoenix Wright (a.k.a. not the bird lady from Marvel)

Chance: 40% - while he's had longer-lasting support for Smash than Dante, there's still a lot of competition within Capcom. As we saw in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, he can work in a fighting game, but when it comes to combat-ready Capcom characters, he's not exactly the first one that comes to mind. Mind you, that hasn't stopped the developers before, with characters like Wii Fit Trainer and Villager, but it seems to me like Phoenix's popularity has waned a bit as other Capcom characters have become more plausible.

Want: 30% - I've played Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (though I'm terrible at the game - I've needed to stick closely to a spoiler-free walkthrough because I'm never sure when to present certain pieces of evidence, and I wound up presenting crucial evidence that seemed relevant to what was being discussed, only to be penalized for not presenting it at the right time that the game wants me to), and I've played as Phoenix in UMvC3, but nothing about him has screamed "Smash fighter" to me. His UMvC3 moveset is awkward and doesn't seem to fit well with the game's fast-paced action, and while I'm sure that the Smash team could come up with something, it seems like missed potential when characters like Dante or Amaterasu (or even Monster Hunter - not a fan of the games, but there seems to be a lot of options for that character) are available.

Ryu Hayabusa (a.k.a. the other Ryu)

Chance: 90% - Koei-Tecmo has built an oddly close relationship with Nintendo in recent years. Not only have they worked on Warriors spin-offs for multiple Nintendo franchises (Fire Emblem and the Legend of Zelda), they were even directly involved in the making of Fire Emblem: Three Houses. I don't know what they did on that game, but being trusted with a main entry in a Nintendo series seems like a really big step for a third party company. On top of that, Ryu Hayabusa seems like one of the last big NES stars that isn't in the game, and if what we saw with Castlevania is any indication, I could see the Smash team (and the composers) jumping at the chance to make a Ninja Gaiden stage filled with references to the series' history, along with remixes of songs like Unbreakable Determination. Much like with Rayman, I find it weird that he hasn't made it to Smash yet.

Want: 60% - while I recognize his historical importance, Ninja Gaiden doesn't seem like the series for me. I'm not the type to seek out infamously difficult games (Ghosts 'n' Goblins, Contra, Dark Souls - the only reason why I beat Celeste was because of sheer stubbornness and the game's generous checkpoint system), and while I've tried both the 2D and 3D games, they were too difficult for me to get into. If he got in, I'd be interested for the historical significance (much like with Castlevania or Pac-Man), but I wouldn't be "jumping out of my chair" levels of excited.

 

[Nemuresu]

Came out last year.

Maybe right now, but not in any moment when that might have factored into their decision-making.

Thanks for pointing out, gonna edit the post with that.

 

[Ninjaed]

Speaking of Koei Tecmo, I can see 3 franchises: Ninja Gaiden + Dead or Alive (Hayabusa covers both), Warriors (Dynasty, etc), Atelier.
I'm not sure there's any other franchise they're known for that isn't anime-related or something. If I missed one, do tell. As for the reps, I'd say they're Hayabusa, Lu Bu and Ryza. I know there are other beloved Warriors characters but Lu Bu tends to be the one that sticks the most to mind - at least mine. Then again, Hyrule Warriors has a few OCs and people are asking for more Zelda...?

Anyway, judging from those, while Atelier has been long running, I doubt they're getting the Persona treatment. As for Warriors or NG+DoA, I'm pretty sure Nintendo and Sakurai would go for the ninja. Ninjara was no problem for Sakurai but the ARMS devs wanted Min Min, so having a ninja is A-ok. And Hayabusa has quite the legacy.

So that'd make Hayabusa their likeliest rep? I'd like to make sure my thoughts are correct before the day is over.

they were even directly involved in the making of Fire Emblem: Three Houses. I don't know what they did on that game, but being trusted with a main entry in a Nintendo series seems like a really big step for a third party company.

Are you certain? Do you have a quote? Because if so, my 20% chance score is a bit too low.

 

[amageish]

Are you certain? Do you have a quote? Because if so, my 20% chance score is a bit too low.

It's not a quote, but here's Koei turning up in the credits (spoilers for the song played over the credits, I guess). Koei reportedly did a lot of the gameplay and mechanics, while Intelligent Systems did story stuff. This is why a lot of the visuals are similar to (and some generic models are just taken from) FE Warriors.

 

[-crump-]

Some music to really get me in the mood for Dante rating:

Spoiler

Dante
Chance: 50%
I think he has one of the better chances out of all potential third parties for this round. He’s got a fanbase, Capcom is very open to Smash cooperation, and DMC has gotten some love on Switch. It wouldn’t be a surprise to me if Dante made it in this DLC pass.

Want: 10%
I really don’t care for Dante’s design, and his gameplay wouldn’t really interest me. The 10% that is there is only because the reactions to him would be fun to watch.

_______________

R. Hayabusa

Chance: 65%
It’s honestly surprising that Koei Tecmo doesn’t already have a playable rep in Smash, considering their close relationship with Nintendo. Of all of the potential characters they could draw from that company, Hayabusa is the clear favorite; his games are NES classics, he’s had multiple modern appearances, and he’s even got fighting games under his belt. Really the only thing that gives me pause on him is his lack of vocal popularity in the Smash fanbase, and the lack of recent appearances.

Want: 75%
We’ve got Simon, Erdrick, and Mega Man as part of the extended NES family, getting Hayabusa in there would be icing on the cake. Plus I just like ninja, sue me.

_________________

Phoenix Wright

Chance: 30%
Popular and a strong history with Nintendo, but I doubt he’d be the first choice Capcom would present. Ace Attorney has been fairly dormant for awhile, so unless something changes there I doubt Phoenix would be first in line.

Want: 70%
I like the series, I love the character, and I want the music in Smash pronto. He’s not my most wanted Capcom rep but he’s up there for sure.

__________________

Noms: Whichever character/concept has the LEAST amount of votes by the day’s end x5

 

[Wonder Smash]

Really the only thing that gives me pause on him is his lack of vocal popularity in the Smash fanbase, and the lack of recent appearances.

Want: 75%
We’ve got Simon, Erdrick, and Mega Man as part of the extended NES family, getting Hayabusa in there would be icing on the cake. Plus I just like ninja, sue me.

He made his most recent appearance just last year in Dead or Alive 6.

 

[-crump-]

He made his most recent appearance just last year in Dead or Alive 6.

I admit I don’t really keep up with DoA, but damn for some reason I thought it came out in 2016.

 

[Ridrool64]

Capcom bois from two series I really need to play someday.

Dante Chance: 65%, though he's under a condition. Dante is way likelier to get in the first three slots than the last three, of which he is too hype. But my analysis will tell me that while I don't predict him outright, I see him as a prime candidate for the first spot outside of Crash. Dante has come back to roaring success and gotten a Nintendo release too late to matter in Volume 1, but just in time for Volume 2. The character is popular among both Smash fans and an audience not already into Smash Bros. Dante is definitely a frontrunner for the first spot barring any potential game changing leaks, I think.

Phoenix Chance: 45%, also under a condition. Phoenix becomes the frontrunner for Capcom with slots 4 and 5, as opposed to 1/2/3. This is a character who is much more likely later on as, while a big deal to the Smash fandom, he's not that big and makes more sense to reveal later. Phoenix has been asked for for many years, and will likely remain a popular request. That being said, I honest to god expect an Ace Attorney Spirit Board event in the future, so I don't think he's showing up this time.

Dante Want: 50%. I've seen his games, and he looks really cool in them! Yet, I've heard horror stories about how broken he is in another game. Still, he and his games are cool, and I've seen enough movesets to approximate how he'd play even if I don't have hands-on experience with the character. Also, Devil Trigger in Smash would be a godsend.

Phoenix Want: 35%. On the bright side, I'm friends with quite a good few many Ace Attorney fans. I'm sure they'd be happy to see him on the big screen with some of gaming's finest. On the other... I'm not exactly convinced his moveset would be terribly interesting, even if it exists. But then again, that would mean Cornered could be in Smash, so that seems cool.

He was on top of the world...

Chance: 50%. Koei-Tecmo is actually already involved with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, because of the Yuri Kozukata Assist Trophy, so I can't imagine it'd be too hard for Sakurai and Ninty's legal crew to work something out with them. Ryu Hayabusa is well known as a strong NES icon, among the three left who have no presence in SSBU (the others being Bill Rizer and Bimmy Billy & Jimmy), but he also has notoriety for his 6th generation era and his fighting game appearances. The latter, plus the fact that we have nobody who uses a katana, and last but definitely not least his powerups in the NES games, give him more of a moveset to work with than ever.

But here's the problem. He's kinda got... not that much relevance, and doesn't have the fan demand to break out of that. Until Ultimate, he wasn't a particularly popular character, and during the ballot, we had plenty more NES icons to go through, not the least of which Simon Belmont probably stood in his way the hardest. I guess he also "competes" with other Koei-Tecmo characters, but it's about as one sided as Sonic vs. literally any other SEGA character in Brawl is, if you ask me. Overall while he's not on my short list, I can see him slotting in as another Terry-type character; not exactly the most relevant or popular fan request, but somebody with a strong legacy. I do think I could see a Mii Costume event in his future, though.

Want: 70%. I have not actually beaten Ninja Gaiden yet, but that game alone has told me everything I need to know about the potential of Hayabusa in Smash. A more strategic, speedy character who is vulnerable to getting combo'd but has all the tools he needs to overwhelm and keep opponents at bay sound pretty nice. Also, Unbreakable Determination in Smash. That alone sells him to me.

Reduce Dante's chance to 50%, Wright's to 40%, and Hayabusa's to 45%. All of them are for the same reason: since Min Min said that the Spirits are free, the spirits are free and the massive pool of both first and third parties hurts all of them. Dante, chiefly, because I'd expected a non-Nintendo character first (not just third party, but a character who isn't associated with Nintendo like Mega Man or Simon). But all their other points still stand, so I think they all still have a good shot.

If the next character is, say, Waluigi or Rex? Their scores tank dramatically.

Frisk x 5, Shantae will get 28.29% if her thread doesn't invade (double the score if they do), while Quote's biggest benefit means less than it did before so 16.69%.

 

[Ninjaed]

It's not a quote, but here's Koei turning up in the credits (spoilers for the song played over the credits, I guess). Koei reportedly did a lot of the gameplay and mechanics, while Intelligent Systems did story stuff. This is why a lot of the visuals are similar to (and some generic models are just taken from) FE Warriors.

Thanks you two, good thing I asked. I had this huge doubt all day nagging at me in the back of my head, for good reason. Such a close partnership changes everything and I hereby join the "why he not in yet" club.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Well, it’s been a while. But here we go.

Dante
Chance: 50%
I do think that Dante lends himself to Smash quite well. My only problem is that overall, compared to something like Resident Evil who has only gotten Spirits, his franchise isn’t that prominent to Nintendo fans or it’s systems. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s out but I feel like even with his overall popularity his Smash popularity came a little too late. I don’t feel like it was enough to really push him to Nintendo’s forefront. All this could also be in his favor though so I really do think it’s a 50/50.

Want: 90%
I can’t lie. I love character action games. Bayonetta, DMC, and Ninja Gaiden are some of my favorite franchises of all time and I feel like some other games like Sekiro, Bloodborne, and Nioh all owe a bit to these 3 REALLY pushing the hard but fair gameplay that would come to be a ludicrous series in the Souls franchise. At least in my eyes. I love Dante. He’s cool, he’s got a great design, and his mannerisms and fighting style would fit in with a lot of the cast. The only reason it’s not 100% is because of a certain other character from a series I listed above that I want in a little more.
———————————————————————

Phoenix Wright
Chance: 40%
Y’know, I dunno, I like Phoenix a lot and I like his moveset in MvC3 a lot but I think that’s the problem. I think Sakurai would like to make Phoenix his OWN character he would love to be unique and whacky but I think MvC3 just did it TOO perfectly and that anything else would just feel derivative. Like I said maybe it’s just me. I know he has a cult following and his games are fun from the little I played but I just don’t see it happening, sadly. Still there’s a chance.
Want: 40%
I really have no attachment to Phoenix. I think he’s great in MvC3 and a ton of fun but overall that game, and a tiny Demo of Dual Destinies, is all I really have to go with. Well, that and a fact that a ton of my friends want him in. I’d be happy to have him but I’d prefer quite a few others.
———————————————————————

Ryu Hayabusa
Chance: 70%
Now I know I’m pretty biased since he’s one of the last characters I REALLY want on the roster but I think a lot of the rumors that were flying around leading up to Terry’s reveal gives me hope. I think there was some truth to them. Even without that, and I know this is subjective, I really do feel like he’s one of the very last NES icons who could feasibly make their way into this game. On top of that he’s been so close knit with Nintendo with the original NES trilogy, the SNES Collection, Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword, and even Nintendo publishing Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor’s Edge as a Wii U launch exclusive. Going even further you can pinpoint Koei-Tecmo as one of Nintendo’s closest collaborators. Having their hands in everything from Pokémon to Zelda to Fire Emblem to Ultimate Alliance 3 to Fatal Frame. I don’t really like to say that a company or character “deserves” to get in but if I did there would be only two companies. Ubisoft and Koei-Tecmo.
Want: 100%
Well, I’ve been cheering for this character for a while and for the better part of forever it seemed impossible. Around Brawl era there was no way because of the Xbox Exclusivity and how violent it is, then Snake got in. Then when NG3RE was a launch exclusive for Wii U I finally saw hope. He didn’t make it into Smash 4. He didn’t make it into base Ultimate, he didn’t make into Fighter Pass 1, but I’m hoping and praying I get one of my very last wants in an already perfect game. So, yeah. You can say he’s my most wanted now. Easily. Sorry Doom Slayer. You’re #2.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Dante:

Chance: 20%
Want: 10%

I don't really care about DMC. Furthermore, there's a certain other Capcom rep I'd rather have join the battle, so that's why Dante's so low. As for his chances, he ticks all the boxes, assuming his FP1 "No he's not in Smash" doesn't stand. He's a highly requested and recognizable AAA 3rd party from a company that isn't represented in the DLC. He's also a corporate asset, having not missed a single MVC game besides the one that was only Street Fighter, IIRC. If the aforementioned deconfirmation is for FP1 only, it really looks like it might be Dante's time.

Phoenix Wright:

Chance: 10%
Want: 90%.

Phoenix is that other Capcom rep. He defined the genre that is Visual Novels, so he's instantly made a legit pick for Smash. Nick is an iconic character from a fun series that has a home on Nintendo, which got him into my Top 5 most wanted from the first two cases. However, he's clearly low on Capcom's, and likely Sakurai's, priority lists, since other Capcom reps such as Dante, Morrigan or even Monster Hunter are likely to be better sales than him. Keep in mind that Phoenix only got into UMVC3, which is a rerelease of a pre-existing MVC game, so the odds aren't in his favor. Regardless, I hope Pheonix gets in to represent AA, Capcom and Visual Novels, as he's a great character that is the protagonist of a great game. I would have absolutely no objections in seeing him become a playable fighter.

Ryu Hayabusa:

Chance: 20%
Want: 30%

I played a bit of the classic Ninja Gaiden on Switch Online. He's just not a character I can make myself want in. With that said, he is one of the last NES classics that could be added to Smash, which gives a good ledge to stand on, both on the should and would. Speaking of which, he's probably first in line for the Koei-Tecmo reps. Nintendo's on good terms with them, but I'm not sure how willing they are with other companies using him, because I know little about KT.

Noms:
FP2 is 3 Nintendo & 3 3rd Parties x5

 

[iMACobra]

Abstain Dante and Nick.

The Modern-Day Super Ninja
Chance: 50%
It's 50-50 at this point at this. Sakurai/Nintendo either approached Koei Tecmo or neglected to consider them altogether despite their still amazing relationship. The latest they worked on with Nintendo is Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Koei Tecmo developed most of it, even a lot of the scenario just like they did with Fire Emblem Warriors so maybe thank them for helping create Byleth.

Ryu Hayabusa's latest video game appearance is Warriors Orochi 4 Ultimate released Dec. 19, 2019 in Japan and Feb. 14, 2020 worldwide. He has competition to represent Koei Tecmo in Warriors/Musou and possibly Atelier. I believe he would probably be best to represent the company since Ninja Gaiden has the most worldwide appeal primarily being a series developed with the West in mind at its inception and having a strong presence on Xbox. Ninja Gaiden may be dead at the moment but the developers, Team Ninja, have expressed interest in a new Ninja Gaiden after Nioh 2 released seeing the success of current ninja/samurai games, such as Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, and others soon to be released, like Ghosts of Tsushima.

Want: 100%
He's my most wanted, what can I say. I played Ninja Gaiden 1 on the NES and beat it and recently am trying to play Ninja Gaiden Black on Xbox. I also love the Dead or Alive series. My hope is that his potential inclusion incorporates facets of all his incarnations and, of course, include the Izuna Drop (and Flying Swallow). Leaving out such an iconic move would be a huge disappointment. That is all.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'm abstain from all except ryu

Ryu

Chance 65%

There's just a lot of thing going for him

And min min may have actually helped him even more from all the stuff so far

According to Sakurai from the arms rep it was a coin flip between her and ninjara for the choice and the other got a costume he has a thing for ninjas I mean greninja was probably picked for that reason and I heard he really likes ninja gaiden So koei-tecmo came up to him about it no way he would turn it down

Want 100%

I liked the nes games so this needs to happen since he's the last one of the majors of that era who isn’t here yet

 

[GoodGrief741]

other Capcom reps such as Dante, Morrigan or even Monster Hunter are likely to be better sales than him.

...Morrigan? Really? I mean, I can get the argument that bigger series = better sales, but how in all hell does Morrigan sell better?

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

...Morrigan? Really? I mean, I can get the argument that bigger series = better sales, but how in all hell does Morrigan sell better?

Less her actual series, more about how she's always in MVC front and center for some reason (probably appeal for not good boys and girls). She's less Morrigan from Darkstalkers and more Morrigan from Marvel VS Capcom, which like I said: Phoenix was only able to be in once.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

I may not be as active as I used to be regarding this game, but I'd be happy to throw in my walls of text for these three.

Dante
Chance: 70%
With Devil May Cry having a resurgence thanks to DMCV and the first three games on Nintendo Switch with DMC3 Special as the "Definitive Edition" of that game, safe to say I think Dante's got strong grounds for a good relationship with Nintendo, especially if Capcom were to push for him. He's got great potential to be a fighter thanks to his great personality and wide range of weapons/fighting styles, so it wouldn't be too difficult to translate him over to Smash Bros. The question is also because of fan demand - Was there enough movement and support within the current life of Ultimate that it was recognised between Capcom and Nintendo that they'd make the deal go through? That's what I want to know, and I hope it's answered in the fighter pass vol 2.

Phoenix Wright:
Chance: 65%
Unlike Dante, Phoenix has usually been associated with Nintendo since the Game Boy Advance/DS handhelds, so he's got a pretty healthy connection to Nintendo. I suppose the big challenge to Wright's chances is his fellow Capcom buddy Dante.

Want: 100%
Both of them are in my most wanted list - the real problem is that I'd love and want both of them at once lol. I adore Phoenix Wright and the Ace Attorney games; Dante was one of my mains back in UMVC3 alongside Wright and Strider Hiryu, so I'd love to see either of them join the battle in Smash Bros. My preference is towards Phoenix, but I think both of them are equally deserving of a chance at Smash Bros.

Ryu Hayabusa:
Chance: 50%
He's a pretty popular retro hero of the 80s and still going strong today through the Dead or Alive games, so they could easily draw from a wide variety of games for Hayabusa's fighting style. Koei-Tecmo also have a good relationship with Nintendo, so I suppose he's got good potential for crossover. I

Want: 75%
Thinking about it, Hayabusa would be pretty cool honestly.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Less her actual series, more about how she's always in MVC front and center for some reason (probably appeal for not good boys and girls). She's less Morrigan from Darkstalkers and more Morrigan from Marvel VS Capcom, which like I said: Phoenix was only able to be in once.

So? If the argument is that she'd sell well because she's been in several MvC games you're severely overestimating the wider market's knowledge for any MvC game pre-3, if we're being generous, and without that you have a character that hails from an obscure and failed franchise, versus an incredibly iconic character from a very successful franchise that's also already popular with the Nintendo fandom that makes the Smash audience.

Also I honestly don't get your point about Phoenix only getting into Marvel vs. Capcom on the third entry. He didn't exist when MvC2 came out, and MvCI had an incredibly pared down roster. And those games have wack selection anyways, Leon freaking Kennedy never made a game yet Servbot did.

 

[fogbadge]

...Morrigan? Really? I mean, I can get the argument that bigger series = better sales, but how in all hell does Morrigan sell better?

i would guess the out fit

 

[YoshiandToad]

Dante
Chance: 50%
Devil May Cry is massively popular and Dante is a pick nearly everyone seems at least okay with. There's some interesting factors here like when being questioned about Dante in Smash the response was "DMC should be on Nintendo consoles first" and then suddenly as if by magic DMC appears on Switch's eShop.

Overall it could be just coincidence as we were all sure he was out the running in the past due to being freely discussed but I'm not ruling it out as a very real possibility.

Want: 20%
I don't dislike Dante, but I'm one of the rare ones who haven't had much hands on experience with Devil May Cry. I imagine he'd play similarly to Bayonetta and we all remember how she managed to break the game in two in Sm4sh. I'd rather we didn't do that this time and I feel like Dante very well could.

Phoenix Wright
Chance: 25%
Phoenix Wright has a big fan base too and unlike Devil May Cry, his games have always been Nintendo centric.
The downside is I can see him being a Mii costume far easier than I can a fighter. I know MvC managed to turn him into a combatant but in my head he translates more poorly than other peaceful individuals like Isabelle or Wii Fit Trainer did due to the nature of his game's genre.

Want: 65%
I'm more familiar with Wright than Dante, but I wouldn't call myself a fan still. However that stuff I said about him not translating as well in my mind? That's precisely why I'd be more interested in seeing what Sakurai comes up with.

Ryu Hayabusa
Chance: 50%
If Koei get a character, it'll be him or Kasumi, and he's far more likely in my opinion. Ninja Gaiden is one of the last big NES titles. However KT have had basically nothing. Not even Hyrule Warriors, one of the Wii U's biggest hits had even a single spirit which was very odd to me.

Want: 0%
Yesterday I mentioned in my Doomguy rating that I had started off indifferent to him but the constant insistence he's one of only six characters who had a chance for the past year and a half.

Plus, on a more minor note, he'd be our third ninja. I guess he can be different from both Greninja and Sheik, but I was against Ninjara as the ARMS character for the same thing since all ninja characters tend to behave similarly.

 

[Heoj]

Dante:
Chance: 25%
I personally dont see dante as too likely, and i remember before byleth almost everyone were saying how dante was gonna be fp5 and i just didnt see it happening. Not much else to say really.

Want: 25%
Hes kind of cool but hes not someone id get super hype over. I would probably just be sad it wasnt phoenix wright. I also havent played devil may cry.

Phoenix:
Chance: 40%
Yeh, bit of a controversial opinion, but i think phoenix is more likely than dante. I definitely think Ace attorney content is inevitable in smash, it obviously could end up only being a spirit event or a mii, but i also think nintendo might be interested in playable phoenix.

Want: 100%
Phoenix is one of my most wanted along with Geno and Min-min(who made it in) so id lose my marbles if he got in.

Ryu Hayabusa:
Chance: 30%
Not much to say, Hayabusa is definitely in an interesting position considering Koei Tecmos involvement with smash and fire emblem three houses. However I personally dont see him as too likely now because i dont really see Nintendo going for Hayabusa.

Want: 25%
Basically the same as Dante, though ive played a bit of the ninja gaiden game on nes online. Hes a pretty cool ninja but again, not someone id lose my marbles over.

 

[Megadoomer]

For those who haven't played Devil May Cry but are worrying that Dante would break the game similarly to Smash 4 Bayonetta, that doesn't seem like it would be the case. At least from my experience, Devil May Cry doesn't have as much emphasis on crazy midair combos as Bayonetta does.

Maybe it does at higher levels of play that I haven't reached, but at least in DMC1-4, Dante doesn't have nearly the amount of options in the air that he does on the ground. It's been a while since I've played DMC5 (might have to go back to that to check), but he certainly wouldn't be able to slow time or have the ladder combos that made Bayonetta so dreaded. (Plus, I'd like to think that the development team has learned a thing or two about balancing these kinds of characters - maybe a bit too much, given how Bayonetta was nerfed to the point of near uselessness)

Also, for those who haven't played DMC, look into the Switch version of DMC3. The first boss can be kind of cheap, but if you upgrade Dante's pistols to their max power, it's much easier to cheese it by standing back and shooting it, and the rest of the game is fairer.

 

[Garteam]

MvC's most busted character
Chance - 10%: Clearly I'm in the minority here, but I really don't see Dante happening. There's just not a ton to set him apart from other Capcom offerings. His popularity only really ramped up at the beginning of the year when everyone thought he would be Challenger Pack #5, so that's a little too late to help him. Likewise, Itsuno's comments always felt like a necessary condition rather than a sufficient one, his Nintendo appearances have just made him a candidate. While DMC3 was a definitive edition on Switch, I'm hesitant to use that as evidence, seeing how Capcom's big on generally rereleasing legacy content and I don't think that port will remain a Nintendo exclusive in the longterm.

Want - 65%: I have no experience with the character outside of Marvel, so he does nothing for me either way. However, it's clear that a lot of people want him, so I'll bump up my want a little bit.

The Funny Objection Man
Chance - 35%: If there's any Capcom character to keep an eye on, I think it's Phoenix Wright. He's got a very strong legacy on Nintendo's systems, a moderate amount of requests that have increased over time, and potential for a unique moveset. His main issue seems to be that his series has been on ice since 2016's Spirit of Justice, so that could be a potential roadblock. Likewise, he has to compete with other Capcom characters like Monster Hunter, Amaterasu, and Dante, so I don't feel comfortable giving him higher than this.

Want - 85%: Ace Attorney has a special place in my heart. I have a lot of great memories playing the Wii ports of the original trilogy with my siblings. Plus, as someone who will (hopefully) start studying law next year, the idea of a lawyer in Smash gives me a kick. The Courtroom would make a great stage and bring an awesome soundtrack.

The only male DOA character people care about
Chance - 55%: Next to Crash, Ryu Hayabusa has the best chance of any character not from an already existing company. Moveset potential out the wazoo? Check. An icon with both a classic and modern legacy that has often involved Nintendo? Check. A strong relationship between his parent company and Nintendo that could be used for easy negotiations? I mean, Sakurai already contacted Koei Tecmo to write Byleth's trailer, so that really says just how well the two companies get along. The only major issue is his series hasn't seen a release since 2014, but that's not a deal breaker.

Want - 70%: Once again, I have no personal connection to the character. However, Delzethin's moveset idea of a character that redefines movement in Smash by doing things like pulling himself onto platforms or hanging off ceilings sounds like too much fun to not go for. Plus, it would feel good to have one of the last major icons of the NES era under Smash's belt.

 

[Ninjaed]

For those who haven't played Devil May Cry but are worrying that Dante would break the game similarly to Smash 4 Bayonetta, that doesn't seem like it would be the case. At least from my experience, Devil May Cry doesn't have as much emphasis on crazy midair combos as Bayonetta does.

Maybe it does at higher levels of play that I haven't reached, but at least in DMC1-4, Dante doesn't have nearly the amount of options in the air that he does on the ground. It's been a while since I've played DMC5 (might have to go back to that to check), but he certainly wouldn't be able to slow time or have the ladder combos that made Bayonetta so dreaded. (Plus, I'd like to think that the development team has learned a thing or two about balancing these kinds of characters - maybe a bit too much, given how Bayonetta was nerfed to the point of near uselessness)

Also, for those who haven't played DMC, look into the Switch version of DMC3. The first boss can be kind of cheap, but if you upgrade Dante's pistols to their max power, it's much easier to cheese it by standing back and shooting it, and the rest of the game is fairer.

You're more than able to perform air combos in DMC. Here's one combo video of DMC5. People have different playstyles and can express themselves in so many different ways in DMC, but yeah... stuff like that is why people are a bit scared:

PS: my personal favourite is at 4:13, complete with an actual finisher.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Day will end sometime around 6 PM est.

 

[SharkLord]

You're more than able to perform air combos in DMC. Here's one combo video of DMC5. People have different playstyles and can express themselves in so many different ways in DMC, but yeah... stuff like that is why people are a bit scared:

PS: my personal favourite is at 4:13, complete with an actual finisher.

I'm not too worried about Dante. The way I see it, he'd be like a snowball; Unstoppable if left unattended, but he falls apart if you get in his way. This would especially be the case in my personal moveset, where the B button controls his guns instead of standard specials, and he'd make up for it with an air dash. He'd get great mobility, but would easily be gimped.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Want: 0%
Yesterday I mentioned in my Doomguy rating that I had started off indifferent to him but the constant insistence he's one of only six characters who had a chance for the past year and a half.

Plus, on a more minor note, he'd be our third ninja. I guess he can be different from both Greninja and Sheik, but I was against Ninjara as the ARMS character for the same thing since all ninja characters tend to behave similarly.

That’s fair. Though, speculation can always degrade your opinion of a character because if it’s not a character you want personally but you keep hearing about them to the point that they seem like their the only thing people talk about you’re bound to have a negative opinion e.g. what happened to Inceneroar.

On the Ninja part I would implore you to look into Ninja Gaiden. Especially the modern trilogy and imagine his moveset. The modern games use not only swords (which actually isn’t a part of either Ninja’s moveset we got right now) bows, shurikens, Claws on his hands and feet, lunar staff, a scythe, dual Katanas, nunchucks and so much more. Just food for thought.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

Phoenix Wright
Chance: 40%
I think Phoenix has the biggest shot out of all Capcom-reps due to Ace Attorney's long history with Nintendo and how unique Phoenix would be. Furthermore he would be the first visual novel-type character and would represent a genre that isn't present in Smash at all. Also there would be no problem to make an interesting moveset and the courtroom would serve as a perfect stage.

Want: 100%
He's always been my most wanted Third Party Rep for Smash and the only character that I'd 100 % main, no matter how bad he is. I simply love the Ace Attorney games and want to have Nick as a representative of this great franchise + there are so many great music tracks that really need to be in Smash. If he gets into roster, I also hope some spinoff-music will be chosen for Smash, just listen to this epicness:

Dante
Chance: 30%
Due to the popularity of Devil May Cry and the release on the Nintendo Switch this is also a possible candidate and imo 2nd most likely Capcom rep (the third being the Monster Hunter). Neither Ace Attorney nor Devil May Cry are represented in any form yet, I think both will get representation by the end of the DLC-cycle. One of them will get a fighter, the other one a spirit-event (similar to how Resident Evil got one).

Want: 40%
Tbh I never played a DMC game by myself, I only know the game from videos, therefore I don't have a personal attachment to Dante. Compared to Ace Attorney, I also don't think the music (and yes, I listened to whole DMC-soundtracks) has as much to offer as the lawyer in blue. I would be happy for the fans, though, and maybe I will play the games myself sometime in the future.

Ryu Hayabusa
Chance: 15%
Despite several "leaks" I don't really think Ryu has a very high chance of being chosen as one of the remaining characters. Yes, it makes sense to have a Ninja Gaiden rep in Smash (especially since the first games were so old and have a history with Nintendo), but still, I think that Nintendo wants to choose other characters that probably have higher priority right now.

Want: 40%
I would like to see him in Smash, yet there are many other characters that I would like to see even more (like for instance Shantae, Rayman, Paper Mario, Mipha, Isaac, Crash, Sora,...). Therefore the want-score is "only" 40 %.

 

[DaUsername]

Abstaining from Dante.

The Cooler Ryu
Chance: 75%
His inclusion just makes sense to me. Ryu's a well known character with a decent amount of fan demand, and he still appears in games somewhat regularly. Tecmo is one of the last big Japanese game companies to not have a character in Smash, and Ryu seems like the most obvious choice. Honestly, I'm surprised he isn't in already.
Want: 60%
I haven't really played that much Ninja Gaiden. He seems like a cool guy, though. I'd be perfectly okay with his inclusion.

Phoenix Wright
Chance: N/A
Want: 99%
I love Ace Attorney. I love characters with wacky movesets. Therefore I'd love to see Phoenix Wright in Smash.

Shantae prediction: like 25% or some other excessively high number
Quote prediction: 10%
Noms: The Bard x5

 

[chocolatejr9]

Day will end sometime around 6 PM est.

This is still in effect, right? Or has there been a change of plans?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

This is still in effect, right? Or has there been a change of plans?

sorry there was a family emergency

 

[Sari]

Day over.

Rate Shantae from the Shantae series as well as Quote from Cave Story.

Predict Saki from Sin and Punishment and RAY from Custom Robo.

Megadoomer

-----

Some songs to get into the Shantae mood:

Spoiler: Shantae Music

Some songs to get into the Cave Story mood:

Spoiler: Cave Story Music

 

[Perkilator]

Abstain on Quote.

Shantae
Chance: 60%
With , we now know for a fact that Spirits don't mean jack pepper cheese. Even if there's a chance there'll be a Mii Costume, as least she went out with her fans knowing this.

Want: Abstain
I've got basically zero proper history with Shantae. I saw one video on YouTube of Pirate's Curse and that's...basically it.

Saki and Ray: 20%

Noms:
Xion as Sora's Echo Fighter ×2
Sakura Shinguji ×3

 

[NintenRob]

It is in my professional opinion that the score presented to the two indie characters can only be

Abstain

Gasp


Nominate content from currently unreleased game x5

Predictions Saki and Ray? Both 1%

 

[SharkLord]

Shantae:
Chance-70%. With how old her franchise is, WayForward's connection to Nintendo, her popularity in the Smash community, and a general lack of indie fighters so far, I'd say things are looking up for the half-genie hero. In terms of indies, her only real competition right now is probably Reimu (Unless Assist Trophies are allowed as well, in which she'll also have to content with Shovel Knight).
Want-70%. I'm not a Shantae superfan, but the games look pretty fun, and I'm thinking of checking them out at some point. Plus, with the points mentioned above, her conclusion would hardly be unwarrented.
Abstain on Quote; I hear Cave Story is pretty big for indies but I don't know enough to say.
Nominate: Klonoa x5
Predictions:
Saki-10%
Ray-5%

 

[Ninjaed]

Predict Saki from Sin and Punishment and RAY from Custom Robo.

For a second there, I thought you were asking us to predict you. Saki, Sari... close enough, no?

-
I'll abstain today, I wouldn't be able to give a fair rating. For instance, I enjoyed playing Shantae and I do see the potential, but I don't see her being the first indie rep when Sans was given the shaft. Then again, while Shantae isn't as widespread a name as others, WayForward were called upon to help polish Bloodstained because of their skills with 2D platformers. An American indie dev being acknowledged like that is certainly something... but likely not enough? I just don't know. I'd say 0% (why her and not Sans?) but some elements cast that into doubt so I'll just spare myself the headache and abstain.

Predictions:
Saki - 1%
Ray - 0.7%

Nominations: concept: more ATs as one new item x5

 

[Calamitas]

"I like singing! I like dancing! I like trains."

Chance: 35%
Shantae has a strong legacy, a good history with Nintendo, and was even included in the base game as a Spirit. But while Spirit promotions in general are on the table thanks to Min Min, I'm still somewhat doubtful as to whether or not Sakurai and his team would be willing to revisit third-party Spirits. The chance for it is obviously there, but I don't see it as too likely.

Want: Abstain.
No personal experience with the Shantae series. So I'll abstain.

. . .Quote the Raven, nevermore?

Chance: 1%
Pretty sure that nothing has changed for this character since we last rated him, regardless of when that was. All an indie hcaracter has ever managed to achieve in Smash is becoming a Spirit or Mii costume, so for one to make it in right away as a playable character is quite a bit of a stretch. Especially when it's one that isn't nearly as much discussed anymore as all the ones that did make it in in some form.

Want: Abstain.
See the want score for Shantae. Never played Cave Story.

Predicting Sake to get around 0.67%
Predicting Ray to get around 0.32%