Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[GoodGrief741]

Spoiler: Nominations post-Kamek pre-Saber

Specter Knight x160
Ellie (The Last of Us) x150
Velvet Crowe x140
Gene (God Hand) x125
Adeleine (Kirby) x125
Rundas x115
Ninten x115
Jin Kazama x115
[Rerate] Reimu Hakurei x115

150 - 101

Concept: Another western character x111
Kyo Kusanagi x110
[Rerate] Micaiah x110
Protector (Etrian Odyssey) x105
9-Volt x105
Captain Rainbow x102

100 - 51

Aloy x100
Zhao Yun (Dynasty Warriors) x100
Concept: Valve rep x95
Boss: Kracko x95
Amaterasu x95
Lara Croft x90
Frogger x85
Glover x85
Kratos x85
Noctis Lucis Caelum x80
Sunflower (Plants vs. Zombies) x80
Concept: Dragalia Lost rep x80
Farmer (Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons) x78
Proto Man x75
Blaze the Cat x70
X (Mega Man) x68
Brian (Quest 64) x60
Papyrus x56
Decidueye x53

50 - 25

Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x50
Reporter & Wrestler x50
Prince of Persia x40
[Rerate] Arle Nadja x30
Concept: Any grass-type starter x28

Under 25

[Rerate] Dovahkiin x20
The Blob (De Blob) x15
The Horrible Goose (Untitled Goose Game) x15
[Rerate] Bandana Dee x10
Earthworm Jim x9
Chun-Li x5
[Rerate] Tetromino x5
Sparky (Clash Royale) x5
Concept: Overwatch character x5
Giygas x5
King Boo x5
Quote x5
Thrall (Warcraft) x5
[Rerate] Geno x5
Concept: No more stages beyond the Pass x5
Monokuma x4
Black Shadow x2
Urbosa x2
Concept: Pokéball Pokémon becomes playable x1

Jin Kazama and Reimu Hakurei break into the top seven. They're tied for sixth place with Rundas and Ninten.

9-Volt and Captain Rainbow zap over 100 noms.

Concept: Any grass-type starter and Arle Nadja leave the under 25 club.

Today's newcomers are Quote, Thrall, Geno, and Concept: No more stages beyond the Pass (with 5 noms), and Monokuma with 4 noms.

Also, has there been a purge of Noms that I was not aware of?

I don't know how you missed it, but yes.

 

[NintenRob]

I don't know or care about who this, but I know know one thing. If I don't know who they are, I don't want them in Smash.

Chance abstain
Want 0%


Nominate no more stages after the pass x5

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah I don't know this character either so I elect to abstain as well.

Chance: Abstain
Want: 0%

1st party characters after this pass x5

 

[BowserKing]

Sabre

Chance: 10%. Has a slight chance, but competition would be the main concern. But mostly, there is a chance that Sabre wont make it in.

Want: 50%. I don't kno0w much about the character, so I would be neutral. The character would be fun to play however, but that is all I got.

Noms: 2 for Giygas, 1 for King Boo and 2 for Urbosa

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Saber

Chance: 0%
No. There is no chance in hell we're getting a Fate rep. GoodGrief741 said it pretty well, but I'll say how I feel about it personally.

Fate, to me, is associated with porn. There's just no way around the fact that the game is so completely entrenched in... "adult entertainment." I had a problem with Bayonetta getting into Smash because of her design being M-rated. You think that's bad? Try an entire game of characters literally created to be **** material. God. I know there's more to the series than that, and I'm sure there's at least 3 people on earth that enjoy it for completely different reasons, but I don't want it anywhere near my Nintendo fighting game, thank you.

I guess that's more of an explanation of why I don't want it than why it's not likely... So, I'll just say that I think Nintendo, a company based on being family-friendly, doesn't want people to search for the series on google. There's also the whole "literally no one has heard of this series outside of memes/porn" thing. Y'know Astolfo? They're from this series.

Want: 0%
See above.

On top of that, it leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth because of the people I associate the series with. People who I've personally talked to that are fans of the series, as well as 4chan enjoying it so much. (I wonder why...) I don't want anything in Smash that reminds me of 4chan, thank you.

Kyle Hyde Prediction: 1.059%

Noms: Grass Type Starter x5

 

[Calamitas]

Are You Sure This Character's Name Isn't Spelled "Sabre"

Chance: 0%
I was originally going to give this character a chance between about 5 and 10%, but after seeing what GoodGrief741 and PokéfreakofBACON have said on that matter. . . yeah, I agree. It's not happening. There's no way that Nintendo will want to associate themselves with something like that. Though on the other hand, that apparently didn't matter when they hired Saito as character designer for Xenoblade Chronicles 2

Want: 0%
. . .I really have no idea how I could say it with any more variety than my usual "I have no connection to this character and am otherwise also unconvinced". I got nothing.

Predicting Kyle Hyde to be around 1.111%

Nominating Amaterasu x5, which should put her at 100 by now.

 

[zferolie]

Jesus christ.... i havent seen this much hate for a character ever on this board. I myself an neutral on Saber Artoria, and i do really enjoy the fate series. Yes it came from porn, but it had grown way past that since that first game.

And the hate for it being a gatcha game now is unjustified. Its a f2p game that has gatcha elements. Nintendo is doing this too and i dont see you guys hating that as much. I feel if a game is f2p then something like gatcha is fine with it. Just make sure you put regulations on it to dont let kids just spend like crazy, and be very upfront about it. Plus you can play fate grand order without spending a dime decently well you know...

Ah i guess i should put my rates.

Chance:5%. I really think any game world not having a fighter has a chance. 5% is low though for me.

Want: 50% im neutral. I think it would be cool, but i dont need it. Honestly i like Nero more bit Artoria is the one that started it.

Nominate reimu +5

 

[3BitSaurus]

Let me preface this by saying that my experience with fate is 94% anime, 5% a little bit of Stay/Night, 1% Best Friends Play. Even then, it isn't much. That said...

Saber
Chance: 1%
Let me start by saying this: Fate is a game series, no matter what anyone else has told you. It began as a game first, even though most of its popularity overseas comes from the adaptations. Saying otherwise is no different than saying Agumon is ineligible because "virtual pets can't be called video games in today's standards".

Fate has had fighting games before, so it's no stranger to that sort of content. However... it's still very much niche. Even with FGO, a game that almost literally lays golden eggs for its company, the appeal of Fate is restricted to several small pockets, even more so than series like DQ, Banjo-Kazooie and Fatal Fury (which draw bigger crowds in Japan, America/Europe and Latin America/China than in other places, respectively). It's not a priority by any means.

But if I'm being honest... I don't really see anything else against it. Sure, not being well-known is a big hit, but other reasons I've seen appear to be more knee-jerk reactions than anything else.

"Made for fanservice"? Maybe the current Fate games are, I wouldn't really know, but if memory serves, doesn't the original VN have less explicit content (in terms of amount, not the content itself) than, say, Bayonetta? And weren't the scenes perfectly skippable, like most VNs with this stuff? Honestly, this feels exactly like "Doom is too violent for Smash" all over again.

"Mobile gacha hell"? As much as I dislike them, Nintendo has been flirting with the idea in recent times, so I can't count that as a minus.

There's technically the issue of historical figures, but this is a bit of a gray area, because people also use this as an argument against, say, Warriors, yet we have a spirit from a game called "Napoleon" and an Assist Trophy based on a real life person in Dr. Kawashima. It's hard to know if this is really a roadblock right now.

Want: 1%
I do like Saber, both in terms of design and character (and I remember that being more than I could say for most characters in the anime adaptation). That said, I've seen the old Fate fighting game, so I really can't see her doing anything really appealing to me.

I put her slightly above series like GTA or Fortnite (which I really don't have any interest in as Smash picks) and Undertale and Silent Hill (the things that make them special to me can't easily be translated into a fighting game), if only because, again, I kinda like her specifically. Any other Fate character would probably get a 0% from me though.

Having said that... I find the emotional responses I've seen really weird. Like... it's fine to dislike the series (it's certainly not my cup of tea, even as someone who likes VNs, I'll tell you that), but things like "historical revisionism" and "because fanservice" really sound like excuses. And I'm only saying this because I was one of the people who legitimately thought Bayonetta was "too sexual for Smash". I've eaten that crow once and I'm not keen on doing it again.

Predictions
Kyle Hyde: 1.32%

Nominations
Arle Nadja x 5

 

[Artix]

So, the day is finally here, huh? Well, here goes...

Saber

Chance: 10%
I know it's a bit high, but come on, we're reaching to the point where ANY video game character can get in Smash. Anyway, Saber may not be the likely candidate for a VN Rep, but the Fate series' massive popularity in Japan is something you can't just ignore and it's also quite popular in the West as well. Sure, she's from an Eroge game but really, has Nintendo OR Sakurai ever said that they're not gonna include characters beyond the M-Rated ones? Besides, Saber is pretty tame herself and the whole Eroge concept has been dropped after the first VN. But, I gotta admit, she does face some competition, especially Phoenix Wright, in terms of a VN Rep. But with the inclusion of Hero (a character mostly popular in Japan) and Terry Bogard (a character no one really expected to show up), not to mention the fact that we're getting more DLC Fighters after the Fighter's Pass, I feel like we're getting literally ANY video game character in Smash.

Want: 90%
When I first played the VN, I was pretty confused about the character. It wasn't until the halfway point that I started to like Saber. She's my most wanted character ever since I discovered that she's technically a video game character. As for her in Smash, despite being yet another swordfighter, I believe she might bring something new to the table like invisible sword, Command Seals and sword beam! Who wouldn't want that in a Smash game?

Prediction:
Kyle Hyde - 1.07%

Nomination:
Jin Kazama x5

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

History teacher's worst enemy
Chance: 0.1%
So this is the first time I heard that Saber originates from an eroge... not to create another fan rule but I really doubt Nintendo themself would go for a character if their source game is so borderline NSFW that would make Bayonetta seem tame in comparison. They gotta have some decency. Besides, Fate and Type Moon have very little connection to Nintendo, so if gatcha were to be represented why would Nintendo choose Fate instead of other gatcha series they own more stock in?

Want: 0%
I'm not much of a fan of Visual Novels, gatcha games or H-games so I wouldn't want a character that represents all of those genres. Also Saber herself just looks bland and uninteresting to me. Maybe she's actually super likeable if I got into the series (lol no) but her desing just radiates Fire Emblem and SAO energy to me and that's a turn off.

Kyle Hyde: 0.88%
Bandana Dee x5

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

Saber
Chance 10%:whille Saber does have a chance(she has appeared a on a Nintendo system at least once Fate/Extella:The Umbral Star for example), her chance is small, she has competition with Phoenix Wright, and having her first game being an eroge doesn't help.
Want 20%:while she's not a character pick I like, I be okay with saber being in the smash world.
Predictions: Kyle Hyde 2.50%
Nominations: King Boo X5

 

[RouffWestie]

Nintendo themselves used to run a love hotel, just saying.
Saber
Chance: 30%
It's incredibly popular in Japan. It would bring in the mobile game audience. But it's barely known in the West. And Granblue Fantasy would probably be the first game they go to for mobile characters.
Want: 0%
Doesn't look like she could bring something new to Smash wothout it being incredibly forced. Also I have no history with this character and would prefer getting other mobile game characters.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Chance: 30% I can see this being a Sakurai pick, and this isn't that crazy when everything is now 3rd party Sakurai picks. She has Japanese popularity and could've even possibly done well in the Japanese ballot based off polls.
Want: 25% More for the franchise than the character, this would be a entertaining franchise to have be represented in Smash even if I'm not the biggest fan of it, and basically everything I want is in the game already anyway. It is pretty much the most direct technicality to have an anime without breaking the rule.
Nominations
Concept: Lord Fredrik as an Echo Fighter of K. Rool x5

 

[ProfPeanut]

My Arthurian Legend Can't Be This Cute

Chance: 5% -> 20%
Look, if one of the most successful visual novel franchises hasn't got a prayer, then the entire Agumon thread should likewise give up and go home.

Yeah, it's a multimedia franchise better known for its anime than anything else, but that doesn't necessarily nigh-disqualify it. Not knowing what it is doesn't disqualify it either (speaking as someone who didn't have a single clue what King of Fighters was last year.) Obscure animes don't get away with having one of the most profitable mobile games on the planet with just luck and whale-baiting.

There's plenty of skeeviness to worry about, of course - and all of it would be ridiculously easy to keep out of Smash while simultaneously representing Fate as a whole. Saber's default get-up is one of the most conservative costumes that you can find for a Japanese female lead, and she doesn't even have to strip to power up or anything like that. While it might be concerning to build a bridge between curious children and the shameless insanity of Fate, Smash has already built similar bridges with Bayonetta and Persona.

The real questions lie in things like "How much does Sakurai care about visual novels?" or "Does Nintendo care about getting a character from Type-Moon, the publishers of these VNs?" I don't find her chances extremely likely myself because Smash might be more interested in more interactive types of games, but it's not an impossibility, and there's a definite coolness factor to be unearthed from bringing this franchise of overpowered mythological figures into the fray.

Want: 20% -> 20%
You could do a lot worse in terms of moveset potential, and Saber's been fighting with her own brand of swordsmanship for ages. So yeah, it'd be another sword user, but it'd be a person titled Saber of all things. (And a cool woman too. That'd satisfy a certain emerging demand regarding roster diversity.)

Saber has plenty of moments of respectability, and it's easy to imagine Sakurai sticking to those moments instead of mucking it up with fanservice. Still, she's not the first video game woman that comes to mind - and "video games" aren't the first thing that come to mind when one thinks about Saber either. Not to mention that I don't think visual novels require a Smash rep that badly, and Phoenix Wright could represent visual novels too.


Nominations
Arle x5

 

[DanganZilla5]

Saber

Chance: 0.001%

I don't normally give characters this low of a score, but just like the others have said, the series has been associated with mature content that is more infamous than Bayonetta. Not to mention I never heard anybody talk about or request this series or character, so the fan request is niche at best. Saber is a visual novel character, and Phoenix Wright will definitely get in first due to him being much, much, much more popular. I see no chance for this character. Why would Sakurai or Nintendo ever choose a niche character like this over even someone like Monokuma who has a decently big fanbase? No chance for this character.

Want: 0%

Don't know this character outside of basic research. Don't care. 200% would take Phoenix and Monokuma or even a character from 999 over this character.

Nominations:

Quote (Cave Story) x2
Dante (DMC) x2
another western character x1

 

[GoodGrief741]

Jesus christ.... i havent seen this much hate for a character ever on this board. I myself an neutral on Saber Artoria, and i do really enjoy the fate series. Yes it came from porn, but it had grown way past that since that first game.

And the hate for it being a gatcha game now is unjustified. Its a f2p game that has gatcha elements. Nintendo is doing this too and i dont see you guys hating that as much. I feel if a game is f2p then something like gatcha is fine with it. Just make sure you put regulations on it to dont let kids just spend like crazy, and be very upfront about it. Plus you can play fate grand order without spending a dime decently well you know...

Ah i guess i should put my rates.

Chance:5%. I really think any game world not having a fighter has a chance. 5% is low though for me.

Want: 50% im neutral. I think it would be cool, but i dont need it. Honestly i like Nero more bit Artoria is the one that started it.

Nominate reimu +5

You ever wondered how is it that you can play one of these games without spending a dime? I mean, there's gotta be profit somewhere, right?

That's because while you're not biting the bait, the game is financed by a group of people that do, these are called whales. So you get to enjoy your little free game on the backs of people paying more money than reasonable, perhaps suffering from gambling addictions.

Maybe the current Fate games are, I wouldn't really know, but if memory serves, doesn't the original VN have less explicit content (in terms of amount, not the content itself) than, say, Bayonetta?

The original game is an eroge so it literally has people ****ing.

 

[zferolie]

You ever wondered how is it that you can play one of these games without spending a dime? I mean, there's gotta be profit somewhere, right?

That's because while you're not biting the bait, the game is financed by a group of people that do, these are called whales. So you get to enjoy your little free game on the backs of people paying more money than reasonable, perhaps suffering from gambling addictions.

The original game is an eroge so it literally has people ****ing.

I do spend money on it, but i am careful and budget myself. I know there are people who dont though...

But the other fate games are fantastic. Fate extella is a very fun mousou game and the extra, and ccc are a great rpg.

And literally only the very first game had the sex. No other games have sex in them at all

 

[3BitSaurus]

The original game is an eroge so it literally has people ****ing.

Yes. I'm aware. I said so in the rest of the post. Again, my point was about the amount, not the content itself. If I recall, the original Stay/Night has, like... 3 or so scenes like that, right? All of which were cut from the original anime adaptation to the point that if you didn't play the games (like me), you wouldn't even be able to tell it's an eroge at first glance.

I can understand people's concerns with this, but... objectively speaking, it wouldn't be the worse thing that happens in one of the Smash-associated universes. Far from it. And even from what little I know, Fate can stand up on its own feet without that, so hypothetically, it's even easier to deal with than Bayo's clothes or Joker and Snake's weapons, because you don't even need to associate the mature stuff with their gameplay.

 

[Neosonic97]

EX....CALIBAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Chance: 15%.

First, getting this right out of the way... only the original Fate/Stay Night had any truly erotic scenes in them (And only like... what, one or two per route)? And in subsequent re-releases of Fate/Stay Night, like Realta Nua, those scenes were censored. And while the series has since flirted with the fanservice (I'm looking at you, Nero and Tamamo), Arturia, the original Saber class servant (who we're talking about right now), is actually pretty far removed from all of it. So I don't think that'd be an issue for Saber getting into smash. Otherwise we'd have to disqualify Doomguy for the Doom series making liberal usage of blood and gore even in its earliest releases, to say nothing about its more recent games, or Scorpion, given one of the main highlights of Mortal Kombat are its Fatalities, the gruesome ways in which one finishes off a weakened opponent.

My thought process is that, if we get a visual novel rep, and it's not Phoenix Wright, it's going to be Arturia. Still, I'd argue that Phoenix Wright is the main thing really keeping Arturia's chances down right now.

Want: 20%
She'd be cool I guess? While I do have a few concerns, mostly about what her Up Special would be, Saber certainly has most of the fundamentals down. She's just not really a high priority for me at the moment. Not while characters like Reimu go unrepresented.

Noms: Reimu Hakurei rerate x5.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yes. I'm aware. I said so in the rest of the post. Again, my point was about the amount, not the content itself. If I recall, the original Stay/Night has, like... 3 or so scenes like that, right? All of which were cut from the original anime adaptation to the point that if you didn't play the games (like me), you wouldn't even be able to tell it's an eroge at first glance.

I can understand people's concerns with this, but... objectively speaking, it wouldn't be the worse thing that happens in one of the Smash-associated universes. Far from it. And even from what little I know, Fate can stand up on its own feet without that, so hypothetically, it's even easier to deal with than Bayo's clothes or Joker and Snake's weapons, because you don't even need to associate the mature stuff with their gameplay.

Well, objectively speaking, porn would be the worst thing associated with Smash. It's definitely the most extreme thing happening in a source material. Some of the series in Smash have content that garner M-ratings; this one has content that qualifies for AO.

Obviously I wouldn't expect anything sexual to be translated to Smash, but I'm talking about the problem being the source material - I don't doubt that Saber could be easily translated into a regular old swordfighter.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Well, objectively speaking, porn would be the worst thing associated with Smash. It's definitely the most extreme thing happening in a source material. Some of the series in Smash have content that garner M-ratings; this one has content that qualifies for AO.

Obviously I wouldn't expect anything sexual to be translated to Smash, but I'm talking about the problem being the source material - I don't doubt that Saber could be easily translated into a regular old swordfighter.

Yeah, I get the part about AO, but... I still find it bizarre that people are taking this much issue with that fact. Maybe it's because I saw the anime first, but I really can't associate Saber with any pervy stuff. So I don't know how much weight "the source material" actually holds here.

Plus... Extella is rated T and is on the Switch, so the series absolutely can be translated to ratings closer to Smash. If the concerns are "advertising" an adult game in Smash, that's a very similar agument leveled against Doom. Other users have chimed in to say that apparently only the first game had AO content, so I dunno, can it even be counted as a reason against Fate anymore?

Just to state this again: I mean no disrespect to those who just... don't like the series. I don't have any horse in this race, but I'm still not convinced this is actually an argument we should be using.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Saber-tage
Going to have to abstain on Saber's chances as I'm so unfamiliar with Fate I feel it wouldn't be fair.

Looking at her she seems to be...wait...is she an anime swordsman?

CHANCE: 100%
SHE IS AN ANIME SWORDSMA-

Okay, no I have no clue. Phoneix Wright or Layton are more familiar visual novelly-esque games for me and are more well known throughout the world.

Abstaining on want too.

Nominations:
Lara Croft X 5

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yeah, I get the part about AO, but... I still find it bizarre that people are taking this much issue with that fact. Maybe it's because I saw the anime first, but I really can't associate Saber with any pervy stuff. So I don't know how much weight "the source material" actually holds here.

Plus... Extella is rated T and is on the Switch, so the series absolutely can be translated to ratings closer to Smash. If the concerns are "advertising" an adult game in Smash, that's a very similar agument leveled against Doom. Other users have chimed in to say that apparently only the first game had AO content, so I dunno, can it even be counted as a reason against Fate anymore?

Just to state this again: I mean no disrespect to those who just... don't like the series. I don't have any horse in this race, but I'm still not convinced this is actually an argument we should be using.

I do think the series' origins are pretty important. I don't see family-friendly Nintendo associating that heavily with a series that for all intents and purposes started as an H-game, no matter how much they've cleaned up their image.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I do think the series' origins are pretty important. I don't see family-friendly Nintendo associating that heavily with a series that for all intents and purposes started as an H-game, no matter how much they've cleaned up their image.

Eh, I'd say so too, but I have a feeling that - like with my predictions about Bayo in Sm4sh - it would just be my own bias talking.

Either way, I think we do agree on the fact that Fate in Smash is not likely, our divergence is only the why.

 

[Nquoid]

Saber

Chance: 0%
Want: 0%

I think that's my first double 0%? I like to stay open minded about a lot of characters (even whilst thinking their chances are not likely). But man, no matter what the franchise has become it started off as eroge. WHICH ISN'T TO SAY THAT EROTIC MEDIA CANNOT BE GOOD ART. But man, this is far and away not the kind of content that Nintendo wants to promote in their games. It's also the kind of content that is routinely dismissed by the gaming public at large. You can say it's massively popular and would sell. But there's a huge swathe of the gaming public that would turn their nose up at this, and be actively annoyed if they had paid for it as part of a pass.

And are these games even important? They're big and sell well but do they actually matter? Are they good pieces of art? In the way that every single third party character has been so far. (Yes even Banjo). I know it's such a subjective ****y thing to say, but I don't think Fate is something particularly high on Sakurai's list of influential video games.

Not the sort of game I play, and it represents a part of Japanese culture I actually find sort of repellent? And it's not even the treatment of it in Japan, it's the way that it gets fetishised by westerners. I'm an incredibly pro-sex person, but there's something icky about the presentation of women in this kind of thing that I just can't get along with.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm going to abstain, as I know nothing about Fate. However, I do want to say this: Nintendo can be highly unpredictable at times. We may be having a discussion as to whether or not they want to be associated with eroge, but they HAVE shown to be willing to associate with M-rated content (Bayonetta 2 wouldn't exist without Nintendo's help). Plus, as people have stated, the series has moved on from that, even going as far as to censor itself on the matter. I know that there are people who genuinely think this series deserves recognition, and I choose to give them the chance to show off their passion. So please, be respectful.

Nominations: Concept: Dragalia Lost rep x5

 

[Neosonic97]

I do think the series' origins are pretty important. I don't see family-friendly Nintendo associating that heavily with a series that for all intents and purposes started as an H-game, no matter how much they've cleaned up their image.

My issue with this line of thought comes down to the fact that other series, like Doom (which, bare in mind embraces ultra violence now more than ever), are given a pass even though looking at it logically, it falls into the exact same trap, though for different reasons.

My thoughts on it are: if Doomguy is passable when Doom is perhaps one of the poster children for blood and gore in video games, why exactly is Saber's source game (bare in mind, the only version of which people will likely have access to nowadays is the censored Realta Nua version [which is the definitive version anyway]) such a big problem? I don't see it.

 

[RoboFist]

Since I know nothing about Saber, Fates, or Kyle Hyde, I'm going to abstain from discussing anything this week.

However! I will be taking advantage of my weekly nomination!

Thrall from WoW x5, thank you very much.

 

[3DSNinja]

Abstain.
Specter Knight x5.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Saber

Chance: 0%
She's one of those characters who only were noticed due to a fake leak mentioning her. Before that, there was zero demand for her and the majority of people didn't even know she exists. There are far more profitable deep picks for Nintendo to go with that I doubt she'd even crossed their minds.

Want: 0%
I know zilch about her other than I'm in the majority in that department. She doesn't really have anything that makes her stand out or hold my interest. Since I have to pony up the cash for each fighter, I rather get one worth spending the money on.

 

[GoodGrief741]

My issue with this line of thought comes down to the fact that other series, like Doom (which, bare in mind embraces ultra violence now more than ever), are given a pass even though looking at it logically, it falls into the exact same trap, though for different reasons.

My thoughts on it are: if Doomguy is passable when Doom is perhaps one of the poster children for blood and gore in video games, why exactly is Saber's source game (bare in mind, the only version of which people will likely have access to nowadays is the censored Realta Nua version [which is the definitive version anyway]) such a big problem? I don't see it.

First off, I should clarify that I don't think Doom stands much of a chance due to Japan's distaste for the source material.

Second, in most cultures worldwide pornography is seen as a step further than the good old ultraviolence. Even in Japan, which is far more lax about sexualization and more squeamish about violence, pornography is still a step beyond.

So I don't think pornography is comparable to anything but more pornography.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Genderbent King Arthur

Chance: 15%
Let's get straight to the point. The reason why Saber doesn't have a 0% is because of Grand Order's immense success and because of Nintendo's current direction with the DLC. Fate has become huge in recent years and has essentially become a multimedia powerhouse. It also helps that the series does have some presence on Nintendo consoles.

The origin of the series is from an eroge which I feel might pose a problem, but that's for Nintendo to decide. The series has abandoned it's erotic origins and even republished the original VN as a sfw version by removing all the 18+ scenes, so perhaps there could be justification for this inclusion. Yet even then, why not choose a gacha rep from someone that they're friends with like Cygames? Cygames created both Granblue and Dragalia Lost, with the latter being published by Nintendo.

The 15% chance might seem generous at first, but it's there in case Nintendo loses it's mind and decides to go full corporate and choose the biggest gacha game on the market for it's number of consumers and generated income.


Want: 5%
Funnily enough I knew of the Fate series before Grand Order and I played the visual novel. But despite that I can't see myself liking this inclusion. As someone who was acquainted with the series before, I do not like the current status of the Fate franchise and TYPE-MOON as a company in general.

The creator of the series, Nasu, abandoned all his other projects in favor of Grand Order. He sold out his series to Sony for it to be milked endlessly with a never ending supply of waifu pngs. For the life of me I can't find myself to respect the inclusion of this series into Smash. ZUN, the creator of Touhou, has been adamant against corporations taking use of his creation and he has continued to create bullet hell games for decades instead of selling out, abusing the popularity of the series, and exploiting his fans. This stark contrast is why I would defend Touhou's inclusion in Smash but not Fate.

Saber would be fun to play...... so I guess that's enough reason to give it a 5%. But man the inclusion of this character would make me question Nintendo as a company.


Kyle Hyde prediction: 0.8%

Nomination: Reimu x5

 

[SKX31]

My issue with this line of thought comes down to the fact that other series, like Doom (which, bare in mind embraces ultra violence now more than ever), are given a pass even though looking at it logically, it falls into the exact same trap, though for different reasons.

My thoughts on it are: if Doomguy is passable when Doom is perhaps one of the poster children for blood and gore in video games, why exactly is Saber's source game (bare in mind, the only version of which people will likely have access to nowadays is the censored Realta Nua version [which is the definitive version anyway]) such a big problem? I don't see it.

To boil it down somewhat - cultural taboos can be kinda weird. It comes down to how video games were marketed as and whích stereotypes it took. If you watch old Japanese game commercials you'll notice a large focus on "Fun for the entire family!" and obvious toy-like appearances. I mean, Nintendo named their first console the "Famicom" for a reason. Sure, some Japanese games and ads leaned into edgyness, but that's the minority. And sure, you saw sexual games back then too - but again, minority and shunted into its own private sector. Something Nintendo never touched themselves.

American game ads though? Look up old Electronic Gaming Monthly and you'll see - Boom. Sure, some (hey there 32X) leaned onto sex, but again, minority. It was all about being COOL. And XTREME! It's no wonder Doom and MK took off, especially not after that. Sure Ultra-Violence was also the source of a lot of controversy too (MK being the subject of congressional hearings alongside Night Trap) but by that point ultra violent games had gained a major foothold in America. Something which it never did in Japan until GTA caused significant controversy. CEVO's much harsher than ESRB partly because of the notion that video games are mainly meant for the family.

Fate's problems here come in with the origins as a completely sexual game. It's easier to tone down Bayonetta's sexuality for Smash because her sexuality was not the key gameplay focus, nor was it the story focus. It was a major selling point, yes, but Bayonetta's ultimately a Devil May Cry-esque character. With Saber it's a bit more difficult. Yes, the line's very blurry between Bayonetta, Persona and Fate. But here's where GTA San Andreas' infamous Hot Coffee mod comes in.

Hot Coffee's entire point was, you guessed it, sex. Yes, it was only a minigame, and yes it was disabled by default. But trust me, I remember the ****storm that caused in America when it was hacked and found out. Neither Bayonetta nor Persona have had sex as the central point. I think the situation would've been completely different had Realta Nua been the original game. But, it isn't. So if Saber is included, and people find out where Saber comes from...

Well, Nintendo have just given fuel to those Jack Thompson types that latched onto Hot Coffee and wouldn't. Shut. Up. About it. I don't blame Nintendo for wanting to avoid that.

My ratings then:

Chance: 0-1 %

Yea, I'm one of those. See above. Wunderwaft does make a good point - if Nintendo decides to go full corporate I could see it. But that'd mean Nintendo going full EA, which is a major personal nope.

Want: Abstain.

Never played, so not gonna comment there. However, its connections to eroge makes me extremely wary of the franchise. Honestly, my first impression is that significant aspects of the FATE franchise feels completely off.

Kyle Hyde: 0,665 %

Noms: Jin Kazama x5

 

[Neosonic97]

Fate's problems here come in with the origins as a completely sexual game.

Fair point. Although once again, only the original release of Fate/Stay Night has the sex scenes. Realta Nua either censors or removes the scenes outright. To that end, its situation isn't too dissimilar to a game that's already represented in Smash. That being one Fire Emblem Fates (I'm specifically singling Fates out amongst the series for a very specific reason which you should know of).

Said situation being that it was censored to remove certain inappropriate elements to appeal to a wider audience.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Fair point. Although once again, only the original release of Fate/Stay Night has the sex scenes. Realta Nua either censors or removes the scenes outright. To that end, its situation isn't too dissimilar to a game that's already represented in Smash. That being one Fire Emblem Fates (I'm specifically singling Fates out amongst the series for a very specific reason which you should know of).

Said situation being that it was censored to remove certain inappropriate elements to appeal to a wider audience.

All the more reason to remove Corrin from Smash

 

[Jomosensual]

Well, objectively speaking, porn would be the worst thing associated with Smash. It's definitely the most extreme thing happening in a source material. Some of the series in Smash have content that garner M-ratings; this one has content that qualifies for AO.

Obviously I wouldn't expect anything sexual to be translated to Smash, but I'm talking about the problem being the source material - I don't doubt that Saber could be easily translated into a regular old swordfighter.

So I probably shouldn't try to nominate a character from BMX XXX or.....

 

[Jomosensual]

Going to abstain here because I'm not going to have the time to put in enough research on the character

Noms: Kratos x 5

 

[Deleted member]

Chance: 20%
I'd say that this would be a niche yet very Sakurai-ish pick.

Want: 75%
If only I had this much hope.

Noms: Jin Kazama (f*** I need some Tekken in this...)

 

[Artix]

Fate's problems here come in with the origins as a completely sexual game. It's easier to tone down Bayonetta's sexuality for Smash because her sexuality was not the key gameplay focus, nor was it the story focus. It was a major selling point, yes, but Bayonetta's ultimately a Devil May Cry-esque character. With Saber it's a bit more difficult. Yes, the line's very blurry between Bayonetta, Persona and Fate. But here's where GTA San Andreas' infamous Hot Coffee mod comes in.

The sexuality was not the key gameplay focus or story focus for Saber either. What are you talking about? Besides, she's pretty much tame compare to Bayonetta in terms of character design.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The sexuality was not the key gameplay focus or story focus for Saber either. What are you talking about? Besides, she's pretty much tame compare to Bayonetta in terms of character design.

In the original VN? Sexuality's definitely the main gameplay focus. I'd even argue that it's still a main point of the character design, to a tamer degree.