This thread stopped giving me updates! And today's a big one...
Burger King
Chance: 10%
Want: 10%
Still not big on third parties, but at least the Bear and Bird would fit in well enough stylistically. Unfortunately, DHD came in and stole that thunder already, and I don't want them cut.
Still, my childhood was Sonic, not these guys, so meh.
I think Banjo's looking in much better shape than we did the first time we rated them ages ago, so I'll
bump their chance to 30%. Still, there's a lot of competition among Microsoft...as all of the previous discussion is showing.
I can't really see Master Chief. I think Sakurai did still mention that some Nintendo presence is expected, and Halo is one of Microsoft's incredibly few exclusives left. Not to mention that Minecraft took everything by storm. The one positive Banjo has in this circumstance is that he's still basically known for Nintendo - aka the series has been basically dead and buried since the Rare buyout. Thus, any 'compeitition' argument in the style of "Microsoft won't want to give a direct competitor rights!" is not valid for BK since it's basically "Microsoft has the rights to a bunch of forgotten characters that Nintendo wants for nostalgia's sake."
It really depends on the politics here. Does Nintendo ask for BK because they did well on the ballot (which I assume they did), and then MS says that it's fine and they weren't using them anyway? That's good for the big N, but doesn't do much for MS. Does MS instead want free advertising for their newer stuff and counter with Steve?
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And it seems that whenever Geno's involved, there are always loads of new people for some reason. And look at these scores so far! Evidently someone from the ESRB came out and showed a video of Geno in Smash, since I know Vergeben's "some Square character is in" isn't enough to unambiguously confirm Geno...
Now the big one...
Pinocchio
Chance: 35%
Want: 0%
Sakurai likes him, and he has a rabid fanbase. Sm4sh has shown third parties are a non-issue and he got the Mii costume, so he’s definitely visible.
But ugh, no thanks. At all.
I never understood all the support for him in the first place. A (i) third party (ii) one-off character who’s (iii) spin-off only from (iv) over twenty years ago (v) with no future who’s (vi) not exactly iconic. Any one of those points is used as a hit against other characters we’ve rated so far, so why is a character with all six better?
If Geno gets in above Daisy, that is just a royal **** you to Daisy fans. And feel free to replace “Daisy” with “Waluigi” for another Mario rep, “Midna” or “Skull-Kid” as one-offs who actually bothered to get a remake, or “Doomguy” or “Dovahkiin” for third parties whose games made immense impacts.
Geno’s one of those few characters I actively don’t want because he does hit all the criteria for irrelevance. There are too many characters I want who are denied by various arguments above, so someone with that many hits against him should not be considered a Nintendo All-Star because of nothing but a vocal fanbase. Give him a trophy in the next game and leave it at that.
I’ll bump the chance up to 40%, but very begrudgingly. And I’d drop my want score if I could.
With the game seeming to be fanservicey, and with as rabid a fanbase as Geno has, it’s looking likely. Sakurai has even mentioned him by name, which he’s only done for one other character - Ridley.
Still, Geno is only known from a single spinoff twenty plus years ago, so we can’t assume that there’s some massive secret fanbase of teenagers who make up a silent majority like Bayonetta had. Geno hasn’t shown up in any other spinoffs, so nobody really knows him outside of Smash speculation circles. You’d think Nintendo would just buy the rights to Geno (not like Square’s using him) and start letting him show up in Mario Karts/Parties/etc so people would get a feel for him and his personality (which is an aspect not many people talk about)
We like to say that Waluigi is in a perfect place in the game since he’s never been in a main series game, only every other spinoff where he’s a walking meme. And Geno...was never in a main series game, only a single 22 hear old spinoff where he wasn’t even the most important party member.
Not to mention that we’re hitting saturation on Mario characters (we already have one), and that third-parties need to be more strictly vetted. Bomberman gives a nice idea - stick him as an assist, and then we’re good.
But here’s the deal: I’ll support your one-off third-party from a 20-year-old cult classic if you manage to get in my one-off third-party from a 7-year-old triple A megahit that proved Nintendo can play with the big boys. If I get a playable Dovahkiin, I’m rating everyone 90+in want. But until the roster is big enough for the Dragonborn, Geno’s place is not in the roster either.
I'll keep the
40% chance and the
0% want here.
I still don't like the idea of a playable character who's
this obscure. We know that he's been considered before based on the SourceGaming reports, what we don't know is
why he didn't end up in the game. It may well have been that Square Enix was being overprotective of some IP that they've never even looked at again. Or it may be that Sakurai thought it would be cool, but he's just too obscure for the 'All-Star' title.
I know people hate to consider it, but it really fries me when people will extol Geno as a character on the level of Ridley or K.Rool, and then immediately discount Waluigi since he's just a meme. Waluigi does have actual fans, and has always been **** on because 'he's not in main-series, just spin-offs!'. So is Geno. And Waluigi's been in WAY more games than Geno has. And more recently. And just think - most games add the main character, not just any random side character that comes in. I'm tired of hearing that the title character of one of my favorite games is not Smash-worthy since she's 'just Link exposition fairy in one game and didn't show up again.' Midna is more important than Zelda in that game, and she does have a fanbase. Oh, and he got the Mii costume like K. Rool (who
didn't get a splash screen...nor did Chrom or the Inklings). Just like other important, fan favorite characters like Ashley or Takamaru (who, might I add, were considered locks before the August and E3 directs respectively).
But fortunately, there is a place in Smash for characters who are not main-line characters like Waluigi, Midna, Ashley, and Tak. Geno would make a perfect assist trophy. He's got some potential, and now that Squeenix is playing nice, it's possible. But he's also over 20 years old, and obscure to everyone who isn't involved in Smash speculation or has played SMRPG. If it is literally the best game of all times (as is touted), why has it never received a sequel, or even a rerelease outside of VC? Why did it not even get to Europe until the VC? I think people overplay this game quite a bit. Remember when Brawl introduced Assist Trophies...?
Brawl DOJO said:
Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn't quite make it as playable fighters. You may even see some that only the most dedicated fans will recognize, so you'll have to look forward to them.
Geno does seem to hit that second part there. Just like Sukapon, he's a character with a fanbase, but is completely obscure outside of it. Plus, a Geno assist would still bring the exposure that people are wanting him to get.
It's mostly bias on my part, but I support a few third party characters who are deemed unlikely for various reasons despite being iconic in themselves to be recognizable to most anyone who's ever played video games. It therefore stings that the characters I like are being discarded, most of them for the same reasons that people use to justify Geno. However, if Sakurai is using the ballot, there's a really good chance of seeing Geno show up. And then I'm sure we'll be seeing loads of people get mad when their non-Smash-nerd friends say "Why is this puppet thing in the game? Is he from Kid Icarus?"
Prediction for Heihachi: 38.5%
Prediction for Lloyd: 19.4%
Nom: Dovahkiin x5
