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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Snake was born on NES.
Metal Gear was first released on the MSX2. The NES Metal Gear is a different game.
Shulk is a Xenoblade character and is first party whose origins are a license appeared in 2002 by Monolith Soft.
Xenoblade, Xenogears and Xenosaga are different IPs. The Xenoblade IP, which Shulk belongs to, is Nintendo owned.
 

Good Guy Giygas

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
3,154
Location
Official Doomguy Hype-Man®
Switch FC
SW-6635-8915-7294
Hunter of Monsters

Chance: 20% - I still think the Rathalos boss and MH music is all we'll get for representation, but MH is huge, so I really can't count a character out yet I suppose.

Want: 10% - I don't know much about the series so I can't say that I'm super into the idea of MH getting a fighter, but I think they'd at least have the potential to be cool. However, I feel like Monster Hunter is more about the monsters anyways, so I think Rathalos is a fine enough representation for the series (but that's just me). Also, I'd still prefer a Resident Evil character over someone from Monster Hunter if Capcom did get another rep.

Maxwell Prediction: 2%

Nominations:
Frogger x5
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Monster Hunter

Chance: 40~60%

MH is one of Capcom rising franchises thanks to the release of World last year. Its a series with a unique status given that it is already represented in Ultimate, in the form of Rathalos as a boss, so it's pretty much one of the few third party franchises that have content outside a fighter (although its the biggest one currently).

Among Capcom reps, currently, its a very likely franchise to get representation given its popularity. Main issue against the hunter in particular, correct me if Im wrong, was that I remember the devs mentioning in the past that they want the focus of the franchise to be the monsters and not the hunters. So it really depends on the devs changing opinion and allowing the hunter to be represented.

Want: 90%

MH titles are incredibly fun (although they could use more beasts since its mainly dragons and wyverns), and each hunt is exhilatating. From the preparation, tracking down, fighting, getting carted, gathering resources, collecting the rewards, its a pretty unique experience.

The hunters possesses various weapons, skills, traps and items that help them achieve their objectives. You can go into selecting a particular weapon and moveset to be represented, or just have the hunter use the multitude of weapons that they can use for it. It's one of the characters with the most diverse moveset available in my humble opinion.

Really only character that I would prefer from Capcom would be Chun-Li, I don't remember if I mentioned something like this with Dante (at the time I had forgotten about the Hunter for some reason) but my actual order for new Capcom rep would be something like: Chun-Li, Hunter, Dante, Amateratsu, RE rep.

My dream pick for the series would be Brachydios, which is a pretty cool Wyvern, but dunno how it would be implemented.

Nom: Hayabusa x5
 
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Ornl

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
617
Location
France
Metal Gear was first released on the MSX2. The NES Metal Gear is a different game.
Xenoblade, Xenogears and Xenosaga are different IPs. The Xenoblade IP, which Shulk belongs to, is Nintendo owned.
Metal gear on NES is an amliorioration but it's the same game.
I never said that Shulk didn't belong to Nintendo. Read better.
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
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Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,965
NNID
TCT~Phantom
Metal gear on NES is an amliorioration but it's the same game.
I never said that Shulk didn't belong to Nintendo. Read better.
- Unlike about ≈ 2/3 of Fighters, Monster Hunter is a human male. What he has more than ≈ 1/3 ? In Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite, he has a very large sword, which is reminiscent of this Fighters who come from third party licenses at the origin : Shulk and Cloud.
But you did. You conflate Xenosaga with Xenoblade which is just wrong.

Further discussion like this will be seen as flaming and baiting. I do not want to see this sort of discussion again. If you still wish to talk and understand why peoples are responding this way (which is way more civil then the last time it pretty bad and I had to actually talk to people) take it up in a PM.
 

PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
8,768
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
pokemon trainer

Chance: 3%. I feel like if we were to get Monster Hunter Content, it would've been in the base game. No real reason to seperate Rathalos and the hunter.

Want: Abstain. I've never played a Monster Hunter game.

Noms: X x5
 

Artix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
254
Monster Hunter

Chance: 35%
I feel like Monster Hunter would have been revealed in the base game alongside Rathalos, but that didn't happen. Still, Monster Hunter is one of Capcom's biggest and most popular game, so I wouldn't be surprised if they add the Hunter in the game as DLC. However, the Hunter still has a lot of competition from other Capcom characters like Leon, Amaterasu and Phoenix Wright.

Want: 90%
I was really disappointed that the Hunter never came alongside Rathalos in the base roster, but since DLC comes around, I think the Hunter might have a shot. He may not be my most wanted character, but I liked how the Hunter was portrayed in MvCI and I wouldn't mind if they actually add the Hunter since it doesn't have a Spirit, as far as I know.

Maxwell Prediction: 1.78%

Nominations:
Jin Kazama x5
 

RealPokeFan11

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
1,244
Location
Center of the Zero Point
Switch FC
SW-0818-9732-6979
My overtime challenges and the Ornl debate have both delayed my rating, but here we go. I've been sitting back this debate so I don't get my ass infracted again for simply responding. Anyway, Monster Hunter.

GOTTA HUNT 'EM ALL!
Chance:
60%
Want: 70%


I wouldn't be putting this score so high if it weren't for Rathalos. The fact that the most iconic monster of the series is a boss, yet there's no other MU representation outside of music tracks is pretty suspicious. Being third party also helps the Hunter, since the fighters pass is leaning towards third party characters. The things that get in the Hunter's way are being a Capcom rep with competition, and Reggie's "expect the unexpected" interview at VGA 2018. Capcom has 3 characters already in the game (though one is an echo), those being Mega Man, Ryu, and Ken. On top of that, there's competition. Lots of it. Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, and Leon Kennedy to name a few. The Hunter is also somewhat expected mostly because of Rathalos' inclusion as a boss which goes against Reggie's interview a little bit. Two more positives however is the overall success of the series, and the massive moveset potential the Hunter can bring to the table. About February 8th of this year, Monster Hunter World was nearing 12 million sales worldwide. That's more than impressive. If the Hunter makes it, it will be a well deserved inclusion in my opinion. The Hunter also looks sick with the Rathalos armor and longsword.

Maxwell: 2.24%

Tetromino x5

(Side note: the "read better" quote from Ornl is agitating, but I'm not even going to respond.)
 

Nemuresu

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,240
Location
Mexico City
3DS FC
3325-3200-4137
Hunter/Huntress
Chance: 50%-It's a gamble. On one hand, the lack of overall MH content outside of Rathalos, its spirit and the small stage in the boss battle; justify a DLC pack with the proper content. But on the other hand, I feel like the DLC will introduce brand-new franchises, and since Monster Hunter is already in Smash (even if it's just barely), there's a good chance for it to be ignored.
Want: 90%-While I haven't been able to retry MH games (played 4), I did give a shot to MvCI's Huntress, so I definitely want to see more, specially if they come with more than two armour variants.
Nominations: Morrigan x5
 

Sid-cada

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,779
Monster Hunter

Chance - 50% - Honestly it could go either way for me, a pure coinflip. Monster Hunter is a big, iconic franchise and it is already represented by a boss. The fact that they aren't playable either means we aren't getting more, or they planed him fairly far in advance. I don't think we can say until latter, but for now I have no clue.

Want - 65% - Not super into the franchise, but it is one I can respect. I can allow this third party into the game, which admitily is more than I can say for the majority of third parties.


Predictions

Maxwell


Nominations

Vaati X5
 

SmasherMaster

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
1,679
Location
USA
NNID
TelevisionGamer
He Who Hunts Monsters...I Was Going to List a Bunch Of Famous Monster Hunters but too long list...

Chance: 7%
Not impossible, but Rathalos is already in the game, so I assume that negotiations happened in regards to the franchise. Maybe that actually helps.

Want: 0%
Not a fan of the customization/my unit characters in Smash, at least when it comes to 3rd Party characters. Please correct me is I'm wrong. I never played any of the Monster Hunter games.

Nominations
Decidueye x5
 

Neosonic97

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
304
Master of Palicoes (No, I'm not talking about Prowlers).

Chance: 5%.
NORMALLY, my rating for the Monster Hunter would be MUCH higher, given how they already have representation in Smash via the Rathalos. However, as Reggie stated prior to his retirement (specifically after Joker was revealed), the DLC here is going to be series that are new to Smash, which turns what would normally be a positive into a huge negative- Monster Hunter is not new to Smash and that REALLY hurts the chances for the hunter being DLC. Maybe in Smash 6?

Want: 50%.
We've already had a Monster Hunter in a fighting game (Specifically Marvel vs Capcom Infinite), so there definitely is a lot of potential for a varied moveset. And bare in mind, that only used three (Dual Blades, Great Sword, Bow) of the many weapon types. Smash could theoretically see some of the more exotic weapon types such as the Gunlance, Switch Axe, Charge Blade, Insect Glaive, Light & Heavy Bowguns and Hammer, plus tools such as the Shock/Pitfall trap, Throwing/Poison Knives, etc. On the other hand, there are A LOT of variables to consider, and it may be difficult pinning down a solid moveset, especially considering that many weapons in the Monster Hunter series have an element. In order to properly integrate THAT into Smash, the Monster Hunter would need to have elemental effects on whatever weapon they're wielding, and this changes drastically depending on what Monster's materials are used to craft their weapons and armor. Most likely this is going to involve extensive use of the Fire Element (I mean, come on. Rathalos Armor is THE most iconic armor set), so alts could be different armor and weapon sets (e.g. for instance Glavenus, Basarios, Lavasioth, Azure/Silver/Dreadking Rathalos, Teostra, etc.) if they wanted to make the skins feel different from each other.


Noms: Yuri Lowell x5.
 
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shocktarts17

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
986
Location
Indiana
Monster Hunter
Chance: 55%
Monster Hunter to me feels like one of the 3rd party franchises that just make sense for Smash. They have a long history of Nintendo support, are crazy popular, and the game itself feels very at home among other Nintendo games. I have thought this for a while and apparently Sakurai agrees as we got Monster Hunter content in Ultimate. While some might say that this would shut the door for Monster Hunter for DLC by showing that Sakurai only felt a monster was needed from Monster Hunter, I think the dealings with Cloud might show a different story. It is well known that Cloud was one of the last characters to be confirmed for the Ultimate roster, and many people suspect the reason was because SE wanted him to be DLC again. Why would they want that? Well the assumption would be that they would be able to negotiate for a cut of the DLC profit compared to the one time licensing fee. However Sakurai's dream of "everyone is here" won out in the end and Nintendo was able to secure Cloud for the base roster. My theory is that Capcom has done the same thing with Monster Hunter, they allowed Rathalos to join because they knew he wouldn't be part of the DLC and then asked for the fighter to be held back and released as DLC so they could earn a better share of the profits. It's certainly not a sure thing but I think it seems plausible enough to explain why they would choose Monster Hunter to add a boss from when only a very select few series got a boss. Not to mention the fact that despite earning a coveted boss and assist trophy spot Monster Hunter only has one Spirit, maybe because the rest are coming with a DLC fighter?

Speculation aside, Capcom has shown they are very willing for the Monster Hunter brand to support crossovers with Monster Hunter World having several major crossovers in their DLC on top of them having several fighters in Smash already. This alone should keep the Monster Hunter DLC chances decently high.

Want:
85%
Despite being a total Monster Hunter noob I love the series, mostly because everything about it just looks cool. Getting Monster Hunter in showing off a variety of weapons and cool armor would be super fantastic. The only reason my want isn't 90%+ is that I just a little bit would also like Palico to get in and haven't decided which of them I would rather have.

Prediction: Maxwell 13%
Nominations: Palico x5

Okay Ornl Ornl I want to take a second to try and help you out here because I feel like you already have shown improvement since I first responded to one of your posts and I would love to see you continue to contribute if we can get you the rest of the way. ( TCT~Phantom TCT~Phantom if you feel you have already put this matter to bed I can remove this next part.)

First I want to say that as a fellow lover of numbers and statistics I understand where you are coming from when you respond like you do, anyone can state how they feel about something but when you back it up with numbers it adds credibility to your statement, this is a pretty basic fact about debate. However, one of the first things the professor said in my Stats class was that you should never trust statistics because they can be twisted to say just about anything you want them to say. I think you are trying to use numbers to back up your statements but are falling into a trap of creating misleading statistics where no correlation actually exists. Using statistics in a debate is a fantastic way to add support to your claims, however you need to make sure that you are thinking critically about those statistics so that you avoid using one that would hurt your argument.

The second part is your approach, even if your statistics were flawless just rattling off a big list of them or having every single statement you make be followed with a statistic can come off as grating and turn people off of what you are saying. Remember that while being right is one aspect of a debate, the main point is to convince others that you are right which you won't be able to do if no one is willing to listen to you.

Here is how I would approach your posts for future days. Start by splitting up your sections into Chance and Want and make sure that you leave opinions in the Want section. You should aim to keep your Chance section as unbiased as possible so avoid wild speculations or at least preface those as such and make it clear they didn't affect your scoring much. I would also work to cut down the number of stats that you include in your post, pick the best 3 that most clearly support what you're trying to say and sprinkle them into your post.

I really think you can do this, I would hate to see anyone forced out of participation from something that I enjoy as much as I do. If you have any questions or simply would like some further advice on improving your posts feel free to PM me any time, I'm on a lot less lately but I'll try to respond as soon as I can.
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,965
NNID
TCT~Phantom
shocktarts17 shocktarts17 what ya did is fine. I tend to be more blunt with my criticisms anyway. I will reinforce that while the user in questions posts have improved, there are still many grounds for improvement to make them less flamey. Posts intentions need to be clearer on their part, author repeatedly states what they meant to say in later posts or that the error is on someone else. Today’s was particularly bad imo due to many highly opinionated or outright wrong statements. I do not like coming down hard on individuals within this thread. I have warned and advised the user on how to explain their arguments or why some of them do not fit well. While improvement is there, the general problems still exist. I am personally hoping our differing approaches will lead to a net positive outcome. My warning to said user still stands though. I also am glad that there was a very civil response overall compared to the last time this sort of thing happened.

Anywho

Monster Hunter

45% Chance

A large part of me is leaning towards a season 2 happening. To be fair, the main evidence towards this is the placeholder slots in the data, and unless things go crazy for dlc we are. It getting 30 characters. Regardless, I feel that a season 2 is not out of the cards. Should season one sell well (it will if we go by ultimates sales) a season 2 is inevitable. As such, my ratings will probably be slightly inflated due to the fact I am working with more slots in general.

That being said, Monster Hunter has a few benefits right off the bat. The largest is the ease of getting the character in. MH already has a foot in the door with a boss fight, music, and Capcom being super generous in smash Ultimate. It would be relatively easy to get a MH Rep, let alone more Capcom content.

Monster Hunter also is huge in Japan and has been crossing over into the west. MH had a great year last year, a FFXIV crossover, two hit games, MH world being one of the best games of the year, and smash. It has name recognition in the states and earned its keep.

That being said, I honestly put this lower due to seeing one Capcom franchise as almost a lock for DLC: Resident Evil. I would say that having another Capcom character after a RE character is possible. That being said, it is not as likely. It is likelier than the past couple of characters by far but not super likely. For the record I give RE content as dlc about an 85% right now, especially after reviewing blue’s points back in the base game. I would lean towards Leon or Jill over Chris.

Overall, a solid chance. Can easily happen in my eyes even if there is strong competition.

Abstain want

Need more MH experience before I give this one a fat want score tbh. I’m still a Mh newbie.

Nominating Yuri Lowell x 5

Day over rate Maxwell.
 
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TheCJBrine

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
12,066
Location
New World, Minecraft
oooohhh Scribblenauts.

Chance: 1.5% - While Scribblenauts seems to be a popular game, I just feel Maxwell may not have much of a chance at getting into Smash. It's not a 1st-party, and it's not that big of a third-party compared to others, either. Nintendo did let them have Mario and Zelda characters in one of the games, though, so there's that at least.

Want: 100% - I loved playing Scribblenauts when I was younger, so I would be perfectly happy with Maxwell. I bet he'd have a cool moveset, too, summoning different stuff with that overpowered notebook of his. Flying bathtubs, polka-dot dragons, crazy winged scissors with googly eyes...and the star things could be featured in some way, too, though I guess they'd most-likely just be in a taunt and a victory animation.

Nominations:

Creeper x3
Ninten x2
 
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Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
Maxwell

Chance: 20 - Scribblenauts seems popular, but I'm not sure it's popular enough as a 3rd party to get a character in when there's so many other possible franchises that could/would get one first. It's not impossible really. Scribblenauts has a game on the switch plus most if not all of the other games in the series have been on Nintendo counsels as well. He seems like a situational 2nd or 3rd season DLC guy though.

Want: 100 - I spent so many hours on Scribblenauts when I was younger. There's soooooo much moveset potential here too. Maybe almost too much if that's possible with all the things you can spawn in the game. I would without a doubt celebrate Maxwell being included in Smash.

Noms:
Porky x5
 

Sari

Editing Staff
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
4,436
Location
New Jersey
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Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
If Maxwell actually made it in then we'd have a character in Smash who had an official videogame crossover with Superman and Batman. Just some fun little trivia to think about.


Chance: 10%
Scribblenauts has mainly been a Nintendo-based series and has actually sold quite a lot of copies throughout the years. The series has sold over 13 million copies as of 2015 and at one point in 2011 the mobile release was the top selling mobile game for a while (even temporarily beating out then mobile games king Angry Birds). While the series seems to be still doing alright however, I don't think it's as big as it once was. The series kept releasing new games between 2009 - 2013, but since 2013 all we've gotten was a spin-off game for the Switch/PS4/XOne as well as ports of Unlimited/Unmasked. I think the hype of Scribblenauts being a revolutionary game has kind of died out and is now just regarded as a fun and unique game series. Granted I don't think it's impossible for Maxwell to be in Smash but this along with the other third party competition he faces doesn't help.

Want: 70%
Super Scribblenauts was one of my favorite games on the DS. While there are a lot of other characters I'd rather see make it into Smash first, I'd be pretty ok with Maxwell's inclusion. Also since the whole point of Scribblenauts is to create things using words from the dictionary, Maxwell has an insane amount of moveset potential. Maybe they could use his sister as an echo to fit in even more unique Scribblenauts ideas into Smash.

Cranky Kong chance prediction: 4.74% (Dixie is a huge hurdle)

Nominations:
Concept: Fire Emblem Three Houses rep x5
 
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3DSNinja

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
1,390
Max
Chance:0%: Scribllenauts isn:t popular enough. Especially with all of the big franchises, honestly I think he has no chance.
Want:90%: which is a shame b/c he looks real interesting. Lots o potential.
Nominations: Black Mage x5
 

Ridrool64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
1,398
Location
New Jersey
Fast Yellow Winged Toilet? Evil Green Flaming Book? Metal Frozen Killer Radioactive Gamer? All these things and more are possible in Scribblenauts.

Chance: 10%. Not really anything WRONG with him, or being a major, active factor against him, but I feel like Scribblenauts is a series that's fallen under the radar lately. A shame, as I personally enjoy Super Scribblenauts, but somehow I doubt that he's part of the pass.

Want: 45%. Well as I said before, Maxwell's game is one that I do enjoy, so he has that going for him. I feel like he has too much moveset potential, though, to the extent that he'd probably be better as an Assist Trophy to represent all the cool things he can do since a Smash Moveset only can have so much to work with.

Sly Cooper x 5.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Rooster Hat (just imagine Kirby wearing it!)

Chance: 5%
Scribblenauts was a revolutionary, flagship franchise of the DS. I’m also finding out it sold like crazy. All of this might warrant Maxwell a spot on the Smash pantheon. However, it just stopped pushing out games after a while, and appears to have fallen off the radar. 5th Cell is also not a Japanese company, so that might be another barrier.

Want: 100%
I don’t care if he’s not iconic. Scribblenauts was my childhood. I played every single game and I adore them. If we could get a sequel to Super, or one to Unlimited, that’s all I need. The Starite Hunt is never over.

Noms: no fan favorites x5
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Concept: No fan favorite/highly requested characters x187
Concept: World of Light expansion x185
Q*Bert x179
Sly Cooper x175
Kat & Ana x145
Poochy x136
Concept: Boss Rush x135
Tracer x135

150 - 101

Bonkers (Kirby) x130
Vaati x130
Concept: Undertale rep x120
Ryu Hayabusa x120
Porky Minch x118
Amy Rose x115
Brash the Bear x115
Impa x101


100 - 51

Nathan Drake x100
Concept: Microsoft Rep x100
Aloy x100
Protector (Etrian Odyssey) x100
Concept: Third-party character from unrepped Company x95
Lora (Xenoblade) x95
Freddi Fish and Luther (Freddi Fish) x95
[Rerate] Erdrick x95
Yuri Lowell x90
Boss: Kracko x85
Black Mage (Final Fantasy) x85
Creeper x80
9-Volt x74
Noctis Lucis Caelum x70
Spyro x67
Frogger x65
Jin Kazama x55
Ninten x52

50 - 25

Papyrus x41
Frisk x40
Concept: Fire Emblem Three Houses rep x40
Tetromino x40
Decidueye x38
Metal Sonic x35
Concept: Square Enix rep x35
Concept: Assist Trophy becomes Fighter x30
[Rerate] 2B x30
Adeleine (Kirby) x27
Thrall (Warcraft) x25
Cooking Mama x25
Morrigan Aensland x25

Under 25

X (Mega Man) x24
Boss: Perfect Chaos x20
Kamek x20
Earthworm Jim x20
Gooey (Kirby) x20
Hector (Fire Emblem) x15
Pyra & Mythra (sans Rex) x15
Reporter & Wrestler x15
Palico x15
Brian (Quest 64) x12
Concept: Dragalia Lost rep x10
Concept: Bethesda rep x10
Frog (Chrono Trigger) x10
Amaterasu x10
Beat (Jet Set Radio) x10
Tora and Poppi x10
Concept: Spectator Emotes x10
Concept: Spirits aren’t disconfirmations x10
Saber (Fate) x10
Concept: DLC challenges x10
Concept: Persona Spirits x7
Blacephalon x5
Zhao Yun (Dynasty Warriors) x5
Monokuma x5
Concept: Another joke character x5
Neptune x5
Concept: Crazi Taxi rep x5
Oliver (Ni No Kuni) x5
Concept: Free updates (Splatoon-style) x5
Courier (Fallout) x5
Scorpion x5
Concept: Another literally who Level-5 Character who's popular in Japan, like Achilles or Mark Evans x5
Starman (Pro Wrestling) x5
Black Shadow x5
Marx (Kirby) x5
Malzahar (League of Legends) x5
King Boo x5
Concept: Master Chief Mii Costume x5
Crono x5
Worm (Worms) x5
Kyle Hyde x5
Mike Jones x5
Lizalfos x4
Toon Zelda x3
Eight (Dragon Quest) x3
[Rerate] Slime (Dragon Quest) x3
Boss: Sans x2
Urbosa x1
Stahl x1
[Rerate] Steve? x1

No fan favorites climbs past World of Light expansion and takes first place. Poochy rushes into the top seven, resting at sixth and leaving Boss Rush and Tracer in a tie for seventh.

Jin Kazama soars past 50 noms.

Morrigan Aensland bewitches her way through the under 25 club.

Aaaand this is FancySmash FancySmash ’s regularly scheduled reminder that they have extra noms.
 

Ornl

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
617
Location
France
Okay Ornl Ornl I want to take a second to try and help you out here because I feel like you already have shown improvement since I first responded to one of your posts and I would love to see you continue to contribute if we can get you the rest of the way. ( TCT~Phantom TCT~Phantom if you feel you have already put this matter to bed I can remove this next part.)

First I want to say that as a fellow lover of numbers and statistics I understand where you are coming from when you respond like you do, anyone can state how they feel about something but when you back it up with numbers it adds credibility to your statement, this is a pretty basic fact about debate. However, one of the first things the professor said in my Stats class was that you should never trust statistics because they can be twisted to say just about anything you want them to say. I think you are trying to use numbers to back up your statements but are falling into a trap of creating misleading statistics where no correlation actually exists. Using statistics in a debate is a fantastic way to add support to your claims, however you need to make sure that you are thinking critically about those statistics so that you avoid using one that would hurt your argument.

The second part is your approach, even if your statistics were flawless just rattling off a big list of them or having every single statement you make be followed with a statistic can come off as grating and turn people off of what you are saying. Remember that while being right is one aspect of a debate, the main point is to convince others that you are right which you won't be able to do if no one is willing to listen to you.

Here is how I would approach your posts for future days. Start by splitting up your sections into Chance and Want and make sure that you leave opinions in the Want section. You should aim to keep your Chance section as unbiased as possible so avoid wild speculations or at least preface those as such and make it clear they didn't affect your scoring much. I would also work to cut down the number of stats that you include in your post, pick the best 3 that most clearly support what you're trying to say and sprinkle them into your post.

I really think you can do this, I would hate to see anyone forced out of participation from something that I enjoy as much as I do. If you have any questions or simply would like some further advice on improving your posts feel free to PM me any time, I'm on a lot less lately but I'll try to respond as soon as I can.
Thank you for the care given to your advice.

You say that anyone can state how they feel about something. I don't feel this is true, as already pointed out :
You give ****ing 0% in chance. People are going to take offense.
In this theard, it is expected to respond according to expectations, and I am accused of flamey the discussions by not being consistent with an expected vision. You say that while being right is one aspect of a debate, the main point is to convince others that I'm right. Out, I do not want to be right, I participate in a survey. I do not want to convince, I participate in a survey. I feel especially the will of others to want to give wrong, through frenetic reactions, and those are the egos who are involved.
Lastly, you say I should aim to keep my Chance section as unbiased as possibles. Except that my opinion is impartial, but necessarily arbitrary and intuitive. Regarding Rhythm Girl, for example, I am still criticized today to have compared his dynamic style white skin at WFT. For me, this similarity marks a flagrant redundancy (unlike the fact that there are several swordsmen, for example). Some reactions have had the effect of making fun of, denigrate, accuse of provocation, accuse of making a difficult day, and to want to silence by authority. It isn't a question of using statistics or not.

My conclusion is that this thread is not a poll, but the mirorir of a micro-society that works with a leader. In sociology, they do not like independent opinions, and they want to stigmatize them. The stigmatisation divides and calls the followers to make a block, although it is claimed the opposite ("I designate you as a witch, but I do not want to hunt witches"). Most sociaties operate with scapegoats. What is happening about me isn't a unique case, it is a typical case, a cultural phenomenon. If the ego of others needs to manifest, I can take on myself. This is the price to pay to give a divergent opinion.

Thank you again for your energy and your time.
 

Neosonic97

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
304
No Starites here unfortunately.

Chance: Abstain.
It's been too long since I played a Scribblenauts game, so Maxwell kinda flew under my radar. I don't really have an opinion.


Want: 0% as a fighter. 80% as an assist trophy.
Maxwell is just one of those characters who is FAR better suited to being an assist trophy than a fighter. I really don't have anything else to say on the matter.

Noms: Yuri Lowell x5
 
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Flyboy

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
5,281
Location
Dayton, OH
Maxwell
Chance:
5%
There was a time where I would say he was a sleeper pick. That time was Wii U/3DS. Yeah, he's an outside pick and sold well and started on Nintendo, but his games seem to have really died down after the initial burst of hype that lead to Unlimited/Unmasked. It's a shame, too - they're good games, especially the original. I had the original on DS and Super on iOS and adored both. Unlimited was one of my most-anticipated at the time even though I can't say it satisfied me. They're fun games and Maxwell is a character that makes me smile. But I can't say he's likely, especially since we haven't had a truly new Scribblenauts in what feels like forever.

Want: 85%
I loved the original and Super Scribblenauts so so so much. It was an adorable, fun game that started on DS and I played it to 100% completion. I loved the puzzles, I loved goofing around in the sandbox, I loved the art style...it was really just a joy to play. Unfortunately, I feel a little burned by Unlimited as I didn't really like the mission-based gameplay it went with. However, that doesn't stop me from loving that cute rooster-hat-wearing lad and his first few games. My only concern is being unsure how to adequately represent him in a fighting game. You can't really pause the game to type out your attacks, and cycling through adjectives and nouns in a list seems tedious. That said, just using the sfx and aesthetics of Scribblenauts could work still. I mean, it's not like Joker is gonna be using his in-game menu in his moveset and he still seemed Smash-ready so sure, let's get some Starites!

Nominations: Poochy X4, Tracer x1
 
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BowserKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,847
Location
winnipeg
Maxwell

Chance: 20%
Scribblenauts is co-created with Warner Bros Entertainment, and they need the rights for Maxwell and Scribblenauts for this to happen

Want: 90%
However, I'm a big fan of the Scribblenauts franchise, and Maxwell has a lot of creative potential moves for this game. Plus I think Warner Bros would definitely allow Maxwell to be in this game

Noms: 2 for Boss Rush and 3 for Microsoft Rep
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,522
Location
Drenthe, NL
Maxwell
Chance: 5%
Scribblenauts is a pretty successful series praised for its innovation but I dunno, seems like a franchise a bit past its prime. I didn't even know a new game came out last year on the Switch. Would've made for sense for Sm4sh imo.


Want: Abstaining, it's been way too long since I touched a Scribblenauts game

Metal Sonic x5
Cranky Kong: 5.14%
 

Kirby Dragons

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 30, 2014
Messages
5,015
Location
Another Dimension
Just droppin' in to give a 10000000000000000% want score. Maxwell is one of only a few characters who would make me want to get Ultimate. Any moveset he brings would be great.
 

Garteam

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,147
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Garteam
It's been awhile since I popped in (I think since Lycanroc?), but things are pretty slow, so I'll put in my two cents:

Book Boy
Chance: 2%, Scribblenauts is a relatively big series, but I don't know if it's Smash big yet. It's hard to place it alongside series like Sonic, Metal Gear, or Final Fantasy. Plus, it doesn't really have the large cult following that a series like Bayonetta or Persona would have. Additionally, Maxwell has the misfortune of being owned by a Western dev, which creates a language barrier that causes difficulties in negotiations.

Want: 65%, Maxwell is pretty cool. I remember being pretty hyped for Scribblenauts when it released a decade ago and he carries a lot of unique moveset potential that no other candidate really has.
 
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SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,463
Location
Sweden
Scribbleboy himself:

Chance: 10 %

My biggest worry when it comes to him - as a fighter - is that Nikki, a stylistically similar character, was made AT. Since that happened, I'm not sure how Sakurai views him as a possible fighter, or if Nikki's spot means "Nah, not sure how to go with these kinds of characters". Of course, there's the whole "Warner owns him" thing. I do wonder how people would react to 4th parties in non-playab- scratch that. I can guess the answer. Aka no way. (Sidenote, my opinion on 4th parties differ from most here in one key aspect: I wouldn't mind them if said 4th party has a long history with video games, at least several awesome / classic games, and their appearances in Smash were clearly inspired from those video game appearances. I don't think any 4th party meets those criteria so far though, and that's besides the topic at hand.)

Want: 50 %

That said, potential moveset alone means Maxwell scores pretty high. Despite me not owning a single Scribblenaut game. Part of my want score comes from a Scribblenauts stage possibly being awesome, so there's that too.

Noms: Tracer x5
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
A reminder that Warner owning Scribblenauts just puts Maxwell in the same spot as Mortal Kombat. It doesn’t make Scribblenauts ‘a fourth party IP’.
 

Sid-cada

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
1,779
Maxwell

Chance - 1.5% - Scribblenauts was a notable series back in the day, but it's not as big as it used to be. While it was always closely associated with Nintendo, it never really became supper iconic. Still, he's closely associated, so if something interesting were to happen, I could see him included.

Want - 50% - I used to love Scribblenauts as a kid. While I do enjoy the series, I do think that Maxwell would be interesting, but I feel like he has too much potential, if that makes any sense. Trying to make a move set I feel would be too constraining to him. I think he would be better off as an Assist trophy, doing a reenactment of post 217 (using a time machine to ride a dinosaur to fight robot zombies). Still, if they make it work, I won't complain.

Nominations

Vaati X5
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,463
Location
Sweden
A reminder that Warner owning Scribblenauts just puts Maxwell in the same spot as Mortal Kombat. It doesn’t make Scribblenauts ‘a fourth party IP’.
Nope, I mentioned it because of a) Where any potential discussions between Nintendo and Warner could go. I strongly doubt any 4th party IPs made the shortlist (partly for convinience's sake on Nintendo's end, I'd imagine), but doesn't prevent them from being very briefly considered a la James Bond. And b) that affects Maxwell's potential moveset in very minor - but potentially earthshattering to the hardcore fanbase - ways. Like Maxwell using a normal hangglider wouldn't be a big deal. Loaning Batman's cape for the maneuver would no doubt set off an Internet firestorm amongst the Smash purists. Even if it was for one frame.

Maxwell's kind of in the same spot as Sora, where both are connected to 4th parties in more or less solid ways. And both of them could have implications for Smash's long term future if those elements are included into the characters' movesets. I'm not going to delve much deeper into the 4th party rabbit hole - that could probably be the subject of a doctor's thesis really.
 

PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
8,768
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Maxwell would be swell!

Chance: 5%. With more prominent and popular 3rd Parties on the table, why would they go for him? The guys who own Scribblenauts also own Mortal Kombat. It's at a 5% because there was that Mario crossover in the Wii U version of Unlimited.

Want: 95%. I really liked Unlimited, an d I'm glad the series is somewhat getting revived. His moveset potential is really limitless, he could have 5 movesets and I'm sure the sixth would be unique as well. I'd be really happy if he got in.

X x5
 

Artix

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
254
Maxwell

Chance: 5%
Scribblenauts may be popular, but that was a long time ago. Nowadays, it isn't as big as it once was, so I highly doubt Nintendo would notice the series. He's just like Sora where he is owned by a 4th party company (Warner), which really hinders their chances a bit. Still, there is no doubt that Scribblenauts were released on several Nintendo consoles, but due to many 3rd party characters competing, I highly doubt he would make the cut.

Want: 85%
I gotta admit, I have played Scribblenauts ever since the first game and I enjoyed it. Maxwell has a lot of moveset potential since he can basically create anything. As much as I like him in Smash, there are other third-party characters I want in first before him.

Cranky Kong Prediction: 2.55%

Nominations:
Jin Kazama x5
 

Nemuresu

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,240
Location
Mexico City
3DS FC
3325-3200-4137
Maxwell:
Chance: 0%-I don't see him happening. Scribblenauts has the benefit of being prominent on Nintendo consoles, but that's really about it. It's not superpopular, nor is it a franchise that I personally see Nintendo putting on their list.
Want: 0%-I'm gonna need to be the black sheep around here and admit I never played Scribblenauts. Granted, I do know the game's main gimmick, and can say I'm not interested on it that much.
Nominations: Morrigan x5
 

RealPokeFan11

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
1,244
Location
Center of the Zero Point
Switch FC
SW-0818-9732-6979
MAXIMUM POTENTIAL: AKA the kid who's able to summon a Guzzlord in the middle of battle with just a notebook and pencil.
Chance: 5%
Want: 75%

Maxwell is in the same boat as Sora. Both being owned by companies that are known for movies rather than games. Thankfully this doesn't disconfirm them, because they're still video game characters. What definitely decreases Maxwell's chances, is popularity. He is nowhere near as popular or highly requested as Sora is. He also doesn't have much of a following in general. The one thing he REALLY has going for him however, is moveset potential. Maxwell's potential is limitless. He has the ability to create anything out of thin air, such as weapons, animals, objects, you name it. He can summon a T-Rex with a jetpack. He can summon a giant railgun that can destroy everything in its path. He can summon Goku! (Forget that last part) And he does this all with the help of a pencil and his Magic Notebook. This would make him such an amazing fighter in Smash Ultimate, and I'm thinking about putting him in my most wanted section soon. He could even have custom moves like the Mii fighters because of how much potential he has. Dammit now this needs to happen.

Cranky Kong: 3.33%

Tetromino x5
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Maxwell, the Scribblenauts protagonist

Chance: 10%
Scribblenauts is a franchise that has sold relatively well since its first appearance on the NDS. Maxwell is certainly unique and has appeared in all iterations with the most recent one appearing in 2018.

That said, I think the main issue for Maxwell to get in is that his first and most direct obstacle is Mortal Kombat (which is also pwned by WB) which is more popular and has more popular characters. I feel that Maxwell would be more of an upset option rather than the most likely given the circumstances.

Want: 20%
I have no real attachment to Maxwell, and while his games are fun, I really feel that his moveset is the only real attractive thing he has going for at least in my case.

While I played Scribblenauts Unlimited, I doubt his moveset would be as interesting. As I dont think we would get his full potential of what he can do with his main weapon, creativity, which is the most attractive part of his game as it would be severely limited.

Sakurai has made some things work before, but I would say I would prefer him more as an AT. I feel that the Niki (or Nikki cant recall) AT covers the general idea of what should we expect about a Maxwell's AT. It would involve buffs, debuffs and invokation of stuff like Shoggoths to annoy other players.

Nom: Hayabusa x 5
 
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