"Rate My Moveset!" :: Moveset Critique Thread

[Terywj [태리]]

His point was that both those moves (Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb) would be off his poor Attack stat anyway so his Special stat was good for Thunderbolt and Mega Drain.

 

[Gates]

I think annoying was just trying to mix up all the different gens actually.

 

[kirbyraeg]

While we're talking about Gengar, how about this.

Gengar @ Leftovers
252 hp/140 Spe/108 SpAtk/8 SpDef
Timid / Levitate

Substitute
Giga Drain/Shadow Ball
HP Fire/Thunderbolt
Pain Split

The little spdef investment keeps Blissey from breaking its sub with its coverage move of choice, leaving you free to stall it out. Giga drain ***** swampert, Thunderbolt ***** Skarmory and does decent damage to all steel-types. Outspeeds base 95s which are pretty much all you really need to outspeed now with mence gone. This should be a team focus instead of that crappy-*** torment tran set.

 

[Gates]

Definitely go with TBolt over HP Fire so you don't get walled by Heatran.

 

[kirbyraeg]

who cares about being walled by heatran? You sub down to 1 hp then pain split, then go to your water. Heatran is eliminated completely by that assuming it's a stall-based team, as pain split will bring it down to roughly half its health (max hp gengar=min hp heatran) and you can force it to come in on spikes/rocks/etc again. PP stalling its fire blast is also a good thing, as most other options heatran has do jack **** to gengar.

Truthfully, HP Fire lets it better deal with forretress and scizor, which is the main reason to have it over thunderbolt, as both are bigger threats to the pokemon itself than Heatran is.

 

[Wave⁂]

Weavile @ Life Orb
Pressure / Modest
252 SpAtk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
Calm Mind
Ice Beam
Dark Pulse
Focus Blast

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Flash Fire / Adamant
40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
~ Howl
~ Flare Blitz
~ Extremespeed
~ Morning Sun / Toxic / Will-o-Wisp

 

[Zankoku]

Altaria @ Choice Band
Natural Cure / Adamant
108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spd
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk / Dragon Claw
- Rest

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Gabite @ Choice Scarf
Sand Veil / Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
~ Earthquake
~ Outrage / Dragon Claw
~ Stone Edge
~ Pursuit

 

[Wave⁂]

Altaria OHKOs on the switch-in, counter fail

 

[Cease Tick]

This is not a game this is serious business.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Altaria @ Choice Band
Natural Cure / Adamant
108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spd
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk / Dragon Claw
- Rest

I like the use of Choice Band Sleep Talk. It's like Lindsey Lohan, looks good on paper but is actually pretty ******** and ****ty in real life.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I like the use of Choice Band Sleep Talk. It's like Lindsey Lohan, looks good on paper but is actually pretty ******** and ****ty in real life.

So you don't actually like it. Hurr.

 

[kirbyraeg]

sleep talk on choiced things with natural cure is genius though.

You run in and use something after taking a sleep, then you aren't stuck asleep next time you switch in.

it ain't that bad

 

[Pink Reaper]

no, it's pretty ********. Like, even in theory that's a terrible idea.

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm with PR here. It might be fun hitting stuff for a few turns while asleep, but you can't choose your move, you don't know when you're going to wake up, and you have to (probably) switch after waking up.

 

[UltiMario]

Hey PR, what if it was CB Sleep Talk U-Turn with Natural Cure?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Suicune @ Lum Berry
Pressure / Modest
252 SpAtk / 28 Def / 228 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power (Electric) / (Grass)
- Roar / Surf / Ice Beam / Rest

I've been playing around with this as an anti-lead. He beats most common leads, but loses to Azelf, Roserade, and Starmie, so the rest of your team needs to be able to deal with them (Scarf Scizor/Tyranitar make decent teammates). It doesn't stop the other lead from setting up rocks or anything, but it usually gets you a little bit of momentum early game and works late-game as a Gyarados/Heatran check.

228 speed EVs lets Suicune outrun Aerodactyl after the speed drop from Icy Wind. Typically against faster leads it 2HKOs with Icy Wind (to slow them and break their sash) followed by another attack. Hydro Pump is it's primary attack because Surf doesn't 2HKO Machamp.

I use HP Electric over Grass to deal with Gyarados late-game (+1, Adamant, Life Orb EQ from Gyara does something like 67% maximum); Grass cripples Swampert leads, but that doesn't really matter because Hydro Pump does enough damage and Swampert can't threaten Suicune anyways.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal / Jolly
44 HP / 28 Def / 252 Spe / 184 SpD
- Spore
- Stun Spore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

Spore and set up Substitute. If they bring in something faster to break the sub, you can cripple it with Stun Spore and switch to a counter or sub until it's fully paralyzed. Afterwards you can subseed almost anything. It doesn't beat everything (particularly Grass-types and stuff with Taunt or Rest) but it will at least spread sleep and paralysis.

I forget exactly what the EVs are for--44 HP is for maximum Leech Seed/Poison Heal recovery, max speed eases the initial Spore, and since you don't need to invest anything in attack, you can afford a bulkier spread. I think I was too lazy to do damage calculations and just made Defense and Special Defense the same, so that part could probably use some refining.

 

[Wrath`]

Mark (Vigoroth) (M) @ Liechi Berry
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
- Reversal

I like using this in UU, but should I go for Salac's speed? It has 306 base speed now, i don't know the speed of common UU Pokemon. Also Endure for Substitute?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Mark (Vigoroth) (M) @ Liechi Berry
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
- Reversal

I like using this in UU, but should I go for Salac's speed? It has 306 base speed now, i don't know the speed of common UU Pokemon. Also Endure for Substitute?

If you're aiming for a Normal-type sweeper you should use Ambipom or try out Ursaring (Guts / Quick Feet). Vital Spirit is useful here but you're really only getting the jump off Venusaur, and you're not going to enjoy a Leaf Storm / Power Whip. Carrying ThunderPunch and Ice Punch isn't helping out too much with lack of STAB, and Registeel switches in easily and either (a) sets up Stealth Rock, (b) inflicts paralysis or Toxic, (c) breaks your Substitute, or (d) sets up. Should (d) happen you pretty much lost any momentum using Vigoroth since you're going to have to switch to prevent him to sweep your team.

If you're just using this for the unique or surprise factor I guess it's fine. You're going to need more team support to play with Vigoroth, though.

 

[Wave⁂]

Why not use Zangoose?

 

[IceArrow]

Ursaring is a better sweeper then Vigoroth in UU.

 

[Wrath`]

Vigororth has had it's uses, I indeed like him on my team. If it costs me the match so be it. I know things do it's job better, it is an NU pokemon.

I just wanted an Opinion on if I should switch to Salac berry as I do not know what has more than 306 total speed in UU.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Zam, Missy, Scyther, Swellow, Sceptile, maybe a few others that I can't think of. All are quite threatening.

Don't forget every offensive base 95 with +Spe natures.

 

[Pink Reaper]

You know what has more speed than 306 vigoroth?

Scarf Heracross

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Vigoroth is NFE, I'm pretty positive. The only NFE Pokemon which are tiered are like Wynaut, Chansey, Scyther, and Haunter.

I was disproved of Gligar in the past, IIRC.

 

[IceArrow]

Vigoroth is NU

 

[Pink Reaper]

as is Clamperl

 

[Zankoku]

Magneton is a tiered NFE.

 

[IceArrow]

Porygon2 too.

 

[Smugleaf]

As is Shelgon.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Shelgon isnt actually tiered

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Magneton is a tiered NFE.

Magneton fell to NU. Or it rose to UU when Heracross dropped.

 

[mood4food77]

Vigoroth is NFE, I'm pretty positive. The only NFE Pokemon which are tiered are like Wynaut, Chansey, Scyther, and Haunter.

I was disproved of Gligar in the past, IIRC.

wynaut, trapinch, pikachu, clamperl, vigoroth, chansey, magneton, scyther, and porygon2

 

[Nike.]

I was into competitive pokemon until D/P came out. My team got ***** by the transition of phyical/special attacks being split and I ragequit lol.

Currently getting back into it. I have a question. Does this old Suicune standard still do decent in todays metagame?

Suicune @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Bold
252 HP / 188 Def / 60 Spe / 8 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Roar
- Surf

 

[Wave⁂]

It's got the general idea of the now-standard CroCune, but it's not quite the same.

CroCune @ Leftovers
Bold / Pressure
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpAtk
Rest
Sleep Talk
Calm Mind
Surf

CroCune runs max defense because the metagame is very physically-based, and there are many heavy-hitters running around. Speed EVs are basically useless, unless you're trying to Roar out Skarmory before it can you or something.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I think CroCune could really stand to have more usage. With Mence gone there's just not a lot that actually outright beats it anymore, it's a great pocket pokemon to have, sort of like Gayloom.

 

[Gates]

Lead Arceus:

Arceus @ Life Orb
EVs: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 52 Def / 56 Spd / 100 SAtk / 100 SDef
Hasty/Naive
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- ExtremeSpeed
- Brick Break

So I was browsing Arceus' moveset and I noticed he had all the same moves as Lead Rayquaza and wondered if a comparable set could be made. This is my attempt at an Arceus anti-lead and it is EXTREMELY rough right now.

The EVs are pretty obvious...Arceus can't have more than 100 in any stat. A +Spe nature seems pointless but the reason why it is used is to beat out other Arceus. Higher speed means that he will never lose a priority battle with other Arceus and the current spread means that he will also outspeed lead Rayquaza as well as non-scarfed +nature max speed base 90s and neutral nature max speed base 100s.

The moveset is the exact same as lead Rayquaza and it's been working solidly so far. There are a ton of other options though.

Item choice is also a concern and in Arceus' case this means choosing between attack power and typing. I'll just go over the notable types briefly:

Dragon
Pros: Boosts Draco Meteor, resistance to fire, water, thunder.
Cons: One of the most common types in Ubers, everyone will be perpared for it.

Fire
Pros: Boosts Fire Blast, immune to burn, resistant to ice and steel.
Cons: Weak to the most common pokemon in Ubers, Kyogre.

Fighting
Pros: Boosts Brick Break, resistant to dark, psychic is a non-weakness since few psychic types in Ubers actually use psychic attacks.
Cons: Brick Break is ineffective against many things in Ubers.

Dark
Pros: Immune to psychic, boosts power of Punishment if you choose to run it.
Cons: Weak to fighting and bug.

Ghost
Pros: Immune to fighting and normal, boosts power of Shadow Claw/Force if you choose to run it.
Cons: Common weaknesses.

Ground
Pros: Immune to Thunder Wave, boosts Earthquake if you choose to run it.
Cons: Doesn't boost anything, common weaknesses.

Flying
Pros: Immune to ground.
Cons: Doesn't boost anything, common weaknesses.

Steel
Pros: Immune to poison, lots of resistances.
Cons: Doesn't boost anything, common weaknesses.

Poison
Pros: Immune to Toxic, absorbs Toxic Spikes, resists fighting which is commonly used against Arceus.
Cons: Doesn't boost anything, weak to ground.

I'm experimenting with the types, but for now Life Orb actually seems like the best item.

A quick rundown against other Ubers leads:

Deoxys-S - Double Extremespeed actually does not go all the way but Draco Meteor and Extremespeed do. They still set up rocks though unless they Taunt like idiots.

Deoxys and Deoxys-A - Double Extremespeed all the way across the sky.

Kyogre - This needs to be approached with care. Generally I Extremespeed first to reduce the power of Water Spout, a commonly used move on LeadOgres. If I see that it's choiced after it uses its first move, I can switch to something that resists it.

Dialga - Double Brick Break usually gets there.

Darkrai - Extremespeed then react to what they do. If they Dark Void me I have Arceus take the sleep and switch to something else. If they try to Trick me it won't work due to a weird glitch in Pokemon Online, so I just predict a switch and use Draco Meteor.

Groudon - Draco Meteor, then Extremespeed. It depends on the spread, so this doesn't always work but in general it's a good strategy.

Forretress - They almost always switch out so I just use Draco Meteor. If they don't, Fire Blast will still OHKO even with -2 SpA.

Rayquaza - See what I said earlier about the EVs.

Mew - lol. Depends on the specific build but generally Draco Meteor into Extremespeed works.

Tyranitar - Apparently he's used as an Uber lead now.

AUG 2010 UBER LEAD
[...]
|   10 | Tyranitar  |   1043 |    2.64 |

Brick Break will take care of him.

Mewtwo - Generally I switch out since they can hit really hard with Aura Sphere. I Extremespeed first though to check for recoil or lefties.

Shaymin-S - Fire Blast. Flinchax can be stupid though.

Giratina-O - Draco Meteor. Immunity to G-O's priority move is another good point about running a normal type Arceus.

Wobbuffet - I roll over and die. Wynaut is slightly less of a brutal ******.

Magikarp - I tell those French hippies to go back to drinking wine and eating cheese.

Thoughts?

 

[Riddle]

I'm curious as to what this lead does better than Rayquaza.

And trick not working on Arceus isn't a glitch, go check multitype's write up on smogon.

 

[Gates]

He's faster and bulkier.