"Rate My Moveset!" :: Moveset Critique Thread

[kirbyraeg]

dang bro arceus gets outsped by garchomp

so much for being the god of pokemon if he gets outsped and killed by some punk

 

[Gates]

How is that relvant to using Arceus as a lead though? Garchomp is like never used as a lead, only a revenge killer. It's Scarfed 60% of the time too.

And anyway, Arceus has priority, so even if you don't expect to outspeed and kill Garchomp you can still damage it severely with Extremespeed. In fact, my specific Arceus build can 2HKO Garchomp with Extremespeed a majority of the time after rocks and barely gets 2HKO'd by Outrage. Alternatively, I could take the 50% or so from Outrage and kill right back with Draco Meteor.

So yeah, what's your point exactly?

 

[kirbyraeg]

My point is that it's funny imagining the God of Pokemon losing to something like that no matter how hard it tries just because of its EV restrictions.

the set looks solid as far as I know since I am definitely not qualified to comment on an Ubers set.

 

[Gates]

Well they had to balance Arceus somehow. Why not make him Normal unless you sacrifice an item slot and give him a cap on EVs?

Gamefreak may be largely ignorant to what would balance their game, but they're not completely stupid.

 

[UltiMario]

You do know Arceus won't have an EV cap EVENTUALLY, right?

...I still find it strange that Arceus never got his Azure Flute event... it's something that a non-hacker never see... that's... disappointing.

 

[Fuelbi]

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Timid / Serene Grace
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Calm Mind
Psycho Shock
Thunderbolt
Substitute

What do I do about this?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Timid / Serene Grace
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Calm Mind
Psycho Shock
Thunderbolt
Substitute

What do I do about this?

What exactly do you mean "What do I do about this?". How do you play against it, how do you use it, hoow can you improve it? Your question is a bit vague.

 

[Fuelbi]

Let's see, I take advantage of its bulk to CM then use Psycho Shock or Tbolt (my team really needs the electric support) and Sub... well I just have it there because I can't find anything better myself.

It's not pulling its weight so I don't know what to do about it

 

[Wave⁂]

Meloetta sort of sucks. Find something to abuse Serene Grace. Find something that doesn't leave you helpless against Doryuuzu and Nattorei.

Basically, don't bother with Meloetta.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Meloetta has terrible coverage with Psycho Shock and Thunderbolt. Not only do Doryuuzu and Nattorei resist you, but Psychic / Thunderbolt gets stopped by Shiftry, Claydol, Cacturne, Waruvial, Kirikizan, and Sazandora. And when Shiftry can switch into your moves without worry, then there's something wrong.

Also, Zuruzukin switches and starts setting up. GG

 

[Fuelbi]

Switch Breloom in and Spore Zuruzukin to sleep/Mach Punch Zuruzukin into oblivion?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Switch Breloom in and Spore Zuruzukin to sleep/Mach Punch Zuruzukin into oblivion?

My point wasn't that you couldn't deal with Bulk Up Zuruzukin. My point was if that entire list of Pokemon can switch-in and threaten out your Meloetta, then it's not worth using, is it?

 

[Fuelbi]

Well, that's why I'm asking help on it isn't it?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Well, that's why I'm asking help on it isn't it?

And that's exactly why we're telling you Meloetta's not really worth using as a Calm Mind sweeper. Actually, Meloetta's not really worth using in general. So there.

 

[Fuelbi]

Well what do I do about it then. What the hell can I replace it with?

 

[Wave⁂]

lol i dunno

It's too bad we don't know what the rest of your team is

 

[Fuelbi]

Yes you do

(No, I didn't feel like bumping that thread)

 

[UltiMario]

I just like how Jirachi can run that exact same set with Better Typing.

 

[Fuelbi]

So you're saying that Jirachi would be a much better replacement for Meloetta then? Thanks

 

[mood4food77]

yea, with a more effective moveset even

i think steel typing makes just about every typing better (except for rock and ice)

 

[UltiMario]

except for rock

Aggron would like to have a word with you.

 

[Pink Reaper]

He'd like to, but M4F is busy playing OU and Aggron cant quite seem to get to him.

 

[UltiMario]

I've used Aggron in OU before.

If it wasn't for ****ing Metagross and ScarfTran he'd be really good too.

 

[Gates]

If it wasn't for Stealth Rock, Charizard would be good.

So what's your point exactly?

 

[Pink Reaper]

Also Hippowdon, dont forget Hippowdon.

And Scarf Flygon.

And the move "Earthquake"

And the move "Close Combat"

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Maybe if they meshed Levitate and Rock Head together for some stupid ability exclusive to Aggron, then maybe. Except now Close Combat, High Jump Kick, and Low Kick still completely wreck him.

 

[UltiMario]

Also Hippowdon, dont forget Hippowdon.

And Scarf Flygon.

And the move "Earthquake"

And the move "Close Combat"

Yeah like only 4 Pokemon can live an attack and outspeed RP Aggron to even use those lmao

 

[Pink Reaper]

Yes but plenty of pokemon outright outspeed aggron and can OHKO it, so it's problem is actually coming in and even then congrats on getting one Head Smash KO, now you're left with something that dies instantly to my switch in. Personally I prefer stuff that can attack more than once lol(unless its Wobby, Wobb needs to be super legal again)

 

[UltiMario]

I used to come in on Mence Outrages.

D:

 

[mood4food77]

Aggron would like to have a word with you.

what would probopass and bastoidon say?

 

[Circa]

Part of me REALLY wants to tell you to give Steel-typing to Machamp and see if it's any better, but then another part of me wonders if my hunch isn't right.

You know, because part of what makes Machamp as good as it is actually sits in its lack of common weaknesses. All it really benefits from with it is the ability to come in on some dragon's Outrages/Draco Meteors and be granted an immunity to Toxic Spikes. Oh, and maybe a boost Bullet Punch, although that's mostly negligible. And for that it gains a weakness to Ground, Fire, and Fighting, all of which are extremely common move types mostly due to the existence of Steel-types in the first place. And because Machamp is so slow, he'll rarely get that chance he normally gets to **** over his opponent with DynamicPunch.

I agree that there are a lot of things that would benefit from it, but at the same time I know that there are certain things that could actually get something better (for instance, I think Machamp would benefit more from adding Poison as a secondary typing over Steel (and even over its current single typing), but I'm not going to bother telling you why unless you ask); or are better with what they already have.

 

[Gates]

Cool theorymon bro.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Venusaur @ Life Orb
76 Atk/252 SpAtk/180 Spe
Naive/Hasty / Chlorophyll

Growth
Earthquake/Return
Energy Ball
HP Fire

EVs outspeed +1 110s in sun. Earthquake hits Fire types, though i can imagine other physical attacks would work well here like Return. Energy Ball hits very hard, and HP Fire will maul any other Steels. Just an example calc:

+2 Sun HP Fire vs. 252/252 Calm Jirachi: 354 - 418 (87.62% - 103.47%)

You could also flip this physically, running Power Whip/Earthquake/HP Fire, which would work pretty nicely too.

 

[Plum]

Asked this in a different thread, but this is a much better place to ask and get a response.

Let's take a Choice Jolteon:

Jolteon @ Choice Specs
252 Speed 252 SpA 4 HP
Timid/Volt Absorb
- Thunderbolt
- Shadowball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Change/Baton Pass?

Is the reliability of Baton Pass make it more useful than the potential power of Volt Change?
So far every specs Jolteon I've seen uses Volt Change, and while I have personally not done something like switch Chomp into it for a free SD, I have to imagine that it's a fairly common. Even if they don't Volt Change, you could still be coming in on a Thunderbolt and get the free SD (same goes for Doryuuzu and Landlos as well).
My thoughts are leaning towards Baton Pass. It's a guaranteed switch, and it could be useful to bait out ground types who expect to come in for free only to have me bring out like Breloom on coming in on their Doryuuzu. Now they're in a bad situation, where they can loose Doryuuzu or get whatever they switch in hit by Spore.

 

[Gates]

Just so you know, this thread is generally used for original movesets, not sets that are very common.

And anyway, it seems like you answered your own question.

 

[Circa]

I think in general, Baton Pass is more useful. But if the things you plan on bringing Jolteon in on are almost exclusively things that can be KO'd by either Thunderbolt OR HP Ice (which most probably do), then go with Volt Change and just fire off an HP Ice on your first switch-in. If they take the risk to bring in that Garchomp or Landlos or Zapdos or whatever, then you've just ripped what's probably their only Electric immunity in half. And now you can fire off STAB Volt Changes however often you want.

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm going to break out the classic "it depends on your team". Volt Change only sucks if your opponent has Ground-types. If your team walks all over Ground-types of has sweepers that can set up on common Ground-types, go for it.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Do not run volt change.

The only things that should run volt change are things with secondary STABs that can hit Grounds. Like Specs Rotom-w.

Hell, Zekrom could probably get good use out of it too.

 

[Gates]

Zekrom won't get good use out of Volt Change because Groudon is the most common switch-in.

Anyway, this is an Arceus set I've been using on a stall team and it's been working out pretty well. I should probably post the whole team to put it in context but for now I'll just talk about this set.

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Calm
248 HP/200 Def/40 SpD/20 Spe
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Calm Mind
~ Recover
~ Spacial Rend

The idea behind this set is to burn any physical attackers (read: Groudons) that come in on you and wall everything else with Calm Mind and eventually clean up the remaining pokemon on your opponent's team with Spacial Rend.

The EVs are designed to allow for maximum physical bulk while still maintaining a reasonable level of unboosted special bulk. The speed EVs are to specifically outspeed Groudon and other slow base 90s, though running a Timid nature will allow you to outspeed all non-scarfed base 90s and the slower base 95s.

The moveset probably reminds you of CM Giratina's old walling set, and that's because it basically is. They function basically the same, with the difference being that Arceus trades immunities and some HP for better overall typing, more speed, and a more diverse movepool.

The fourth move is sort of filler. You could run a lot of things in that spot, but I have chosen Spacial Rend for its high base power, increased critical hit rate, and effectiveness against all the dragons that are present in Ubers. There is nothing that has a 4* resistance to Dragon, which makes it almost ideal as an attacking move. Arceus' movepool is diverse enough that you can pretty much run whatever your team needs here.

Ho-Oh is probably the best counter to this set, as he can't be burnt and Sacred Fire will OHKO in the sun and 2HKO in neutral weather while Spacial Rend won't deal any significant damage without an extreme amount of boosting due to Ho-Oh's naturally high SpD. Rain support and Stealth Rock are the best ways to deal with this guy, and quite honestly they're the only way.

Groudon is the second best counter to this set. LO RP Groudon can still get a clean 2HKO on Arceus while burned, but Arceus outspeeds him and taking 22% a turn won't help him stay alive too long. You also outspeed before he boosts and an unboosted Spacial Rend can do 25% or more to help speed up the clock. For all Groudons without a boosting item, Arceus can Recover the hits as they barely 3HKO while burnt. The only way Groudon can beat this set is by using Lum Berry, and Toxic Spikes support from Forretress or Tentacruel can take care of that.

Deoxys, Deoxys-A, Rayquaza, Zekrom, and Ononokusu can all potentially 2HKO with physical fighting or ground attacks, but get destroyed by unboosted Spacial Rend (Technician Breloom can 3HKO with Mach Punch but gets 2HKO'd by Spacial Rend, or he can just use Spore so w/e). Doryuzu, Scizor, Garchomp, Mamoswine, Terakion, Lucario, and Landlos can also 2HKO but get dealt with quite easily by being burnt. Close Combat users also have the disadvantage of being more suceptible to Spacial Rend after using their main attacking move. Roopushin is threatening if you do not have any CMs in as he will only be OHKO'd by a +4 Spacial Rend at the minimum, not counting residual damage. Burning Roobushin is also bad, as it will allow him to 2HKO you with Guts Drain Punch and Mach Punch. Heracross is similar in this regard.

For these reasons, Giratina-O is Arceus' BFF, as he is immune to both Ground and Fighting while being resistant to Fire, Arceus' other weakness. Arceus compliments Giratina well also, since he resists all of G-O's weaknesses.

 

[Wave⁂]

I don't know anything about Ubers, but that EV spread looks inefficient. It looks like you'd be better off Bold and transferring EVs to Speed / SpDef.