• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

"Rate My Moveset!" :: Moveset Critique Thread

kirbyraeg

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
6,440
Location
in Makai
but specs OR Life Orb ice beam 2hko's the standard Latias anyway.

I guess a better use of kyogre's 4th moveslot is really just something like Thunder Wave or Calm Mind, but that looks a hell of a lot like an existing kyogre set...
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,870
So basically

You can't make Kyogre more of a beast than it already is
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
10,438
Location
Maryland
NNID
UltiMario
3DS FC
1719-3180-2455
New Sharpedo:

Sharpedo@Life Orb
Adamant/Technician
4HP/252Atk/252Spe
Aqua Jet
Fake Out
Earthquake
Pursuit/Bite

Is a really annoying son of a *****.

Had to be done
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
10,438
Location
Maryland
NNID
UltiMario
3DS FC
1719-3180-2455
Ice Shard sucks balls on Sharpedo.

Why did we want to use it again? To beat Jumpluff easier or something?
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
10,438
Location
Maryland
NNID
UltiMario
3DS FC
1719-3180-2455
OF COURSE

BITE

Bite really is only superior to Pursuit when you want to do a ton of Damage to Lilibelle. Pursuit does enough otherwise and will catch them on the switch.
 

kirbyraeg

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
6,440
Location
in Makai
when talking just about lilibelle and the general use of pursuit, yes. otherwise, bite is in general more powerful than crunch and arguably more useful given Sharpedo's decent speed and 30% flinch chance.

EDIT: y'know what, here's a set just for funsies:

Phoenix @ Leftovers
248 HP/252 Spe/8 SpDef
Jolly/Pressure

Sacred Fire
Calm Mind
Substitute
Roost

Toxic Spikes. Yes it loses to rest-talkers and is beaten by sr but...that's what taunt+CM Mewtwo is for, and stuff like standard ubers stall is for (gira-o/forrey/bliss)
 

kirbyraeg

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
6,440
Location
in Makai
Yeah, but the point is that it's a stalling set, not a sweeping set. Will-o-wisp would probably be better just so it isn't pp stalled, but idk.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
10,438
Location
Maryland
NNID
UltiMario
3DS FC
1719-3180-2455
If that set was possible in Gen III that would be deadly.
 

Circa

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
2,874
Location
Three Rivers, MI
NNID
timssu
3DS FC
1891-2120-4792
when talking just about lilibelle and the general use of pursuit, yes. otherwise, bite is in general more powerful than crunch and arguably more useful given Sharpedo's decent speed and 30% flinch chance.

EDIT: y'know what, here's a set just for funsies:

Phoenix @ Leftovers
248 HP/252 Spe/8 SpDef
Jolly/Pressure

Sacred Fire
Calm Mind
Substitute
Roost

Toxic Spikes. Yes it loses to rest-talkers and is beaten by sr but...that's what taunt+CM Mewtwo is for, and stuff like standard ubers stall is for (gira-o/forrey/bliss)
I have one big issue with this set: Specially Defensive Mewtwo. Not in the sense that it beats this set, because it obviously doesn't. I just mean that in most (if not all) cases, it's going to be the superior staller. What merit does this have over Mewtwo? Note that you lose to opposing Ho-Oh just as bad, if not worse than the Mewtwo set. It can at least taunt them to keep them from Roosting or Subbing.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
Some silly prediction set.

Cresselia @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Fire
Thunder Wave
Lunar Dance

Comes in against a Dragon Dance Salamence, takes the Outrage and counters with Ice Beam OHKO, outspeeds CB Scizor and severely damages it with HP Fire. If the Pursuit doesn't KO, then Thunder Wave the expected ScarfTran switch-in and then Lunar Dance to whatever you want.

Obviously only works for that very specific set of opposing Pokémon and loses if they revenge with, oh, Choice Scarf Tyranitar instead.
 

Firus

You know what? I am good.
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
7,681
Location
Virginia
NNID
OctagonalWalnut
3DS FC
0619-4291-4974
This should probably be sticked to prevent excess threads of discovered sets in the Battle Tower.
Yeah, I think it would help if this were more noticeable to cut down on potential needless threads.

Sticky-ing this.
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
Infernapes Partner

Lucario@Life Orb
Rash(Naive)/Inner Focus
252Spe/28Atk/228SpAtk
-Close Combat
-Aura Sphere
-Shadow Ball
-HP Elec/HP Ice/Stone Edge

Man this thing hates stuff. With SR up you can pretty much 2HKO or at least severely cripple everything in the game. 28 Atk EVs are all you need as it gives you a minimum of 95% against blissey. Aura Sphere does 69% minimum to Skarmory and CC does a minimum of 33% meaning it cant safely switch in. Aura Sphere does 47.9% - 56.4% to Hippowdon, giving a good chance to 2HKO on the switch. Shadow Ball is for the obvious coverage of Gengar/Rotom-A and the last move is for whatever you feel like killing that would normally wall you. HP Elec is technically the best choice as you'll always outspeed Max Speed Gyara and OHKO. HP Ice is good for the standard Mence/Zapdos switch ins. Stone Edge wont OHKO any of them but allows you to put huge holes in all 3(50% minimum go Gyara/Mence at -1)

The main idea isnt to actually sweep with this it's to open holes that your other pokes can take advantage of. It works well with Infernape as losing one early wont hinder a sweep later. It should be noted that this Luke requires alot more prediction than Infernape as it cant rely on its speed as much. Its often better to bring it out early on something you can scare off and throw out a Close Combat to see what your opponents switch in will be and use that to your advantage later.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
Seems to work pretty well, if you don't mind taking risks. Infernape and Lucario are both incredibly frail, and don't even look like they're resisting the things that they do. The cool thing is that nobody predicts the specially based Life Orb Lucario featuring Close Combat, so poor switches often happen to either reset a Choice item or wall special attacks (hi Blissey!) or wall physical attacks (hi Metagross!). Unfortunately, he's got troubles against simple revenge users, like anything that can outspeed and Earthquake, or even a Choice Banded Weavile using Low Kick.

He seems to partner well with Gyarados and Salamence, who resist both his weaknesses and can thus usually pull a free setup on an attempted revenge counter to Lucario (checks often die because they switched into the wrong set), like ScarfTran. Infernape seems to still go somewhat well with Lucario, since he can switch into walls attempting to WoW.

That's what I'm seeing so far, anyway.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
2,681
Location
Temple University, Philadelphia
@ above: If Luke packs HP Elec, you could just give HP Ice to Infernape. Looks good!

I guess, yeah.

Also I like this anti-lead idea.

Charizard @ Life Orb
192 Atk/176 Spe/140 SpAtk
Rash / Blaze

Sunny Day
Fire Blast
Solar Beam
Focus Punch

Set up sun and depending on their lead use certain attacks. If they're weak to fire, use Focus punch on their switch, it has a small chance at 1hko'ing heatran, will cripple Blissey on the switch, and will maul ttar. If they're not weak to fire, use Fire Blast, since it will KO through OccaGross and anything weaker. If it's Swampert and it doesn't switch out of you as you set up Sunny Day or they bring in a bulky water after you set up the sun (lol), use Solar Beam. It'll lose to speedier leads like Azelf but will walk all over stuff like Heatran, who you can just Focus Punch as they set up rocks. Hits 280 Speed, but could use max attack...I suppose
I love this set but, isn't this just mixape with Sunny Day in the filler slot, Focus Punch over Close Combat, Solarbeam over Grass Knot, and lower stats?

EDIT: So I just thought of this in like a couple minutes. What leads beat this, ignoring hax?

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Levitate: Hasty
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Shadow Ball
- Icy Wind
- Counter
- Taunt

Icy Wind slows things that are faster than you: Azelf, Alakazam, Aerodactyl, opposing scarf dudes. Taunt blocks status, usually sleep, and entry hazards from slower dudes. When they're forced to attack, you counter for the kill. Counter immediately against dudes that always attack, like Machamp (immunity to Falcon Punch ftw). Shadow Ball is there to show Rotom whos boss... and so you're not useless when you return to the battlefield.

EDIT: So just Tyranitar? Any others outside of Sand Stream and Snow Warning?
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
Lead Tyranitar can immediately break your Focus Sash, and if he spends the first turn trying to set up Stealth Rock, then probably the only significant thing you might've managed is stopping that if you opened with Taunt.
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
9,316
So I encountered a build something like this while laddering and I was dumbfounded by it mostly because I was unprepared for it.

Deoxys-S (NOT A LEAD) @ Leftovers
Timid 252 HP/4 SpD/252 Spe
-Cosmic Power
-Recover
-Taunt
-Night Shade/Seismic Toss

I'm not sure about the EV spread. For all I know it ran Bold 252 Def/252 SpD. The point is that this set is quite brilliant in my opinion. It is designed as an incredibly fast staller that takes advantage of Deoxys-S' reasonable bulk, Pressure, and blistering speed and can be very hard to deal with if you're not prepared. It's also easy to function in a team. Its main weaknesses are Trick (which it almost always outspeeds and Taunts except for Scarfed Base 105s and above, which are rare), status (which I'll discuss later), the limitations of which attacking move it chooses (both are walled by one type), Taunters that are faster than it (there are none), and Trick Room (lol). Let's go over synergies on how to prevent these.

TrickChoice

Generally speaking, there's no 100% sure method to avoid Trick. My only advice is to use something that also uses a choice item, such as Jirachi, Kyogre, Garchomp, Scizor, etc. Ultimately though if you've been playing Gen IV for any amount of time you should know how to deal with Trick.

Attacking Move

Technically, you can run whatever you want, but the ones that I saw to be most effective were Seismic Toss and Night Shade. This is because they have reasonable coverage while doing a decent amount of damage to anyone besides Blissey, Wobbuffet, or Giratina forms. This set's bread and butter is the Cosmic Power+Recover tanking combo and Taunt is also needed for support, so you only really have room for one more move and it's a good idea to make it an attacking one incase you do somehow get taunted. Running Seismic Toss or Night Shade basically comes down to if you want to lose to Blissey or Giratina. Since G-O is used almost twice as much as Blissey, Night Shade is probably the better option. Blissey is also not very difficult to deal with since you can Taunt her and then switch out to something that can kill her. If she Ice Beams you can switch to Scizor or Jirachi, if she Seismic Tosses you can switch to Giratina-O, and no matter what she does you can switch to Dialga, Palkia, or Ho-oh.

Status

As with all walls who do not pack Rest, this guy is weak to status effects. As fas as status effects go though, this build is largely unaffected by Burn since Night Shade will do the same damage no matter what. Paralysis is an issue because it limits the ability to outspeed and Taunt things, but Thunder Wave users will usually be Taunted and Thunderhax is all luck which you can't really prepare for (aside from running Groudon I suppose). Sleep is also very minor since there are few things that can put this to sleep without being taunted first unless Darkrai decides not to get rid of his scarf. The biggest issue here is Toxic Spikes, which there are fortunately a number of ways to deal with.

Safeguard Wobbuffet - I say Wobbuffet because, even though practically everything in Ubers learns Safeguard, Wobbuffet is one of the best users of it. The strategy is simple here - Bring Wobb in on something Deoxys can come in on, Encore them to stall, set up a Safeguard, and then bring in Deoxys and stall.

Forretress - We ridin spinnaz. If anyone can find a way to make Starmie work in Ubers, that would be a good substitute too.

Lum Berry - Once you have +6 defenses, the leftovers recovery will be negligible. A simple way to have a catch-all for dealing with status is to forgo lefties entirely in favor of Lum.

Poison types that don't fly or have levitate so that they can absorb the TSpikes - Are you a bad enough dude to run Toxicroak in Ubers?

Taunters in your speed class (Other Deoxys-S)

They're almost all leads so you shouldn't have to worry too much about them. If you do encounter one, just switch out - you'll either win the speed tie and get hit by an attack, win the speed tie and successfully Taunt, or lose the speed tie, meaning that you have a 75% chance of not getting what you want.

Trick Room

lol who does that? Just run Scizor if you're really that worried.

So all in all I was impressed with this set.

Thoughts?
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
9,316
Haven't done any calcs yet but it shouldn't face too much trouble against either once it gets some boosts in.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
It still gets OHKO'd by a full life Specs Kyogre, even after two boosts and +SDef nature. A Calm Mind Taunt Mewtwo can't do much unless it crits you with a Shadow Ball, though. Taunt will stop any attempt to Taunt you or boost, and if he predicts that and starts things off with Shadow Ball, you'll take ~50% when boosted once (assuming you revenged into something and Cosmic Power'd as they switched out), then under 40% after your second defense boost, and you can start pulling ahead with Recover.

If you want to outspeed Choice Scarf base 100s, run Timid with 252 HP/44 SDef/212 Spe. I picked EVs in SDef because short of a STAB Shadow Force from Giratina or Crunch from Tyranitar, most of your threats seem to be in special anyway. If this isn't the case, run them in Def I guess. EDIT: 236 Speed to outrun Scarf Garchomp.

If you're not afraid of Scarfers, Timid with 16 speed is enough to outrun a max-speed Deoxys-A, the next fastest thing in the format that might be a threat. If for some reason you're afraid of Ninjask, Timid with 96 speed is enough to outspeed and Taunt him, though I doubt that would work anyway because it could easily Protect on the first turn to Speed Boost far beyond any level of speed could hope to compete with. Good thing Ninjask kinda sucks, even in the tier he actually sees play in.
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
9,316
Yeah, I initially had something like 252 HP/16 SpD/240 Spe but then I figured eh **** it and decided to run max speed.

As far as Kyogre goes, you have an excellent point. I suppose this could be remedied with Latias?
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
30,536
Location
香港 & 서울
Clefable @ Leftovers
Magic Guard / Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp Def
~ Cosmic Power
~ Softboiled / Wish
~ Charge Beam
~ Ice Beam

I've been trying to work on this for a while now. I have issues with the EV spread, as to smother as much damage as possible from Fighting-types. Registeel also happens to irritate this, as he does with most offensive Pokemon due to his gigantic defenses. With only Charge Beam / Ice Beam Lanturn could be a problem. I could run Toxic or Thunder Wave in place of a second attacking move, but then I'ld be left with Seismic Toss as means of offense, which isn't necessarily bad, but using a set like this is too much fun.

All help is appreciated.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Hey my friend used that set waaaaay back in early DP! =D

I would use either a Burn Orb or a Life Orb as the item, personally. Leftovers is a good choice as well, though.
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
30,536
Location
香港 & 서울
Proper teammates would be Bulk Up Hitmontop to tackle Registeel and other Fighting-types. Moltres is also a great partner for providing supereffective STAB against both threats.
 

Wrath`

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
4,824
Location
Binghamton, NY
I have been loving this Registeel set

Avacado (Registeel) @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Amnesia
- Iron Head

Screws with Mismugus as they NP I Amnesia up and they do 2-10% damage, then I proceed to Rocks or Toxic. Would Sesmic toss be better than IH?
 

Purtle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
229
Location
Massachusetts
If you had Seismic toss then you wouldn't be able to touch Mismagius and other ghosts. I guess it woudl depend on if you run into that problem a lot or not. You could also switch IH for Earthquake I suppose. But that again leaves mismagius open.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
I did a little experiment to see if I could destroy a lead Roserade while not dedicating my team to it. To that end, I built something to the effect of this:

LEAD:
Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice/Grass]
- U-turn

ALSO:
Azelf @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Sleep Talk


Using the combination of Zapdos' U-turn to disable the Sash and Azelf to absorb the sleep and counter with Sleep Talk, you have a 2/3 chance of eliminating the lead Roserade before it can accomplish anything besides putting your Azelf to sleep. HP Ice lets you eliminate lead Dragonite immediately with ~50% chance of OHKOing, while HP Grass can cover Swampert, though it will never OHKO. Overall, I'd recommend HP Ice, since Azelf already has Grass Knot. You can apply similar setups by U-turning into Azelf against an expected Ice Punch to kill Machamp immediately.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,870
I like it. I take it U-Turn to Grass Knot doesn't 2HKO? What if you go Hasty or Naive?
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
I've done a varient of that: I had a scarfed scizor starter that went to a Lum Berry metagross. I also had other stuff for other sashed pokemon(I remember Tyranitar for Azelf).
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
I like it. I take it U-Turn to Grass Knot doesn't 2HKO? What if you go Hasty or Naive?
A U-turn by Zapdos isn't going to deal significant damage to Roserade no matter what, because it's a non-STAB'd 70 BP attack that's hitting for neutral.

Considering that Grass Knot is 4x resisted by Roserade, you pretty much chalk that one up bad luck if it happens. If you're feeling really silly, I suppose you could give Azelf HP Ice to guarantee a KO on the Roserade, but that would kill your coverage and leave you completely walled by Starmie (though Starmie could probably outspeed and OHKO Azelf anyway).
 
Top Bottom