Rant\Ego Check

[Flamingo]

Hi guys.

It's very irritating when you are playing probably the worst character of the cast that is actually tourney-viable.

My Sheik is good, but at times I am like "Why Sheik, when Metaknight" you know?

Sheik has so many problems in certain matchups it's not funny, but at the same time, other characters have the same problems against her... but instead of being a soft counter, it's a not very fun to play hard counter that usually involves massive amounts of needle camping and F-tilt whoring.

Some moral support would be nice, because seriously I am about to get burnt out on Brawl due to the large gaps between the tiers, (Which is why I advocate B+ but that's another story for another day)

I have an inspiration. I saw the German's Sheik tourney vid. That guy is mad good, I have not seen anyone play as smart as he did. Guys, get your freakin' minds off DACUS and that 'Naritake Step' CRAP and find what works. Stringing Bair looked hot tbh, and granted that MK was probably on my MK level, but not Spamerer, Dojo, or even half as decent as M2K. I had the chance of playing M2K late last month at HERB, and what I found out is that he is Ungodly. lol.

Rant time.

Idk... like it's kinda sad seeing people new come in and try to create guides that they created with an elitist sense, and obviously didn't read the actually-well done ones that are avalible to them.

A note to those new here, please don't come in thinking you know everything, when you have a lot to learn. I did the same thing, I thought I knew a lot, but I didn't. But again, I didn't try to make guides and what-not. These guys will help you with matchups, each one of us has a different specialty and concentrated intelligence on specific character matchups. Me for instance: ask me about Olimar, G&W, and Peach. I know that a lot of people don't have a lot of Oli experience but I have 2 that I play against regularly on our PRs. Just ask. We will help.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

me thinks this is directed towards someone ...tell us how you really feel.

 

[Villi]

Naritake step has a special place in my heart as a curiosity. I'm compelled to say that my gameplay is cogent enough to integrate such curiosities occasionally.

 

[stealth3654]

I can see some nice uses for the Naritake step, but I don't really need it. DACUS on the other hand is a necessity for me for some match-ups, especially against MK.

The reason why I play Sheik, and not some high tier character, is that I just love playing as Sheik! First of all, I am a huge Legend of Zelda fan. Now that's out of the way... Sheik is so fast (on ground and in air) that you can pretty much dance around some characters and strike when there's an opening. Being able to weave in and out of attacks from your opponent and punishing their mistakes easily is just too fun. Sheik's movements are so fluid and Sheik has an easier time combo-ing compared to the majority of the cast. Sheik can punish easily and juggle easily. Also, there is nothing like the look on your opponent's face if you pull off a reverse chain lock in a tournament match, it removes a lot of moral from your opponent when they see their % go from 3 - 105 in less than 10 seconds . Speaking of the chain, Sheik has a nice ranged tether recovery that you can instantly warp to the ledge or ledge hog with. I love gimping, and Sheik as an amazing gimp game (especially against Marth ). Sheik has a few really bad match-ups, but Sheik has to option to switch into Zelda in the middle of the match. Forward tilt might seem cheap, but what do MKs do? Spam spam spam spam spam! Sheik kinda needs the ftilt lock for some match-ups, too. If you still feel bad about using the forward tilt, just look at Armada (German Sheik). He uses the ftilt a lot (look at ROB match-up). Sure I might start playing a high tier character once in a while, but I always get bored and go right back to Sheik.

But that's my oppinion . Just play a character that is fun for YOU to play.

Edit: Since you know a lot about the GaW match-up, did you have anything to add to the Sheik match-up thread?

 

[Flamingo]

I can see some nice uses for the Naritake step, but I don't really need it. DACUS on the other hand is a necessity for me for some match-ups, especially against MK.

Edit: Since you know a lot about the GaW match-up, did you have anything to add to the Sheik match-up thread?

Lolz i know how to play her, and yeah, naritake step might be pointless but it just seems like peoplez try to overplay and do things that are ENTIRELY superfluous instead of doing the BnB (thanks Ankoku) things that make you win a match.

Recently I have been playing MK a ton, but basically you want battlefield for this matchup. i prefer BF, you might like FD if you like to needle. BF makes Dair less of a problem, although I think dair is a horrible move. If you are thinking they are going to Dair, run. or punish at the PRECISE time. if hit correctly on you, there should be enough shield stun so he can dtilt you granted he is facing the right direction. Regardless. Bair is a problem that eats through everything we have, except our speed. if they are wasting time spacing empty Bair, run and charge needles, 2 at a time just to be safe, his range can be deceptive sometimes. (I swear that turtle grows..)
Probably the most annoying thing, an ungimpable, untouchable, STUPIDLY safe recovery that auto sweetspots like a *****. just don't try to gimp. wait for a tipper Usmash from a decayed ftilt or something... heck, he's light, Dsmash him near the edge, idk.
Ummm needles are key in this matchup, bair spacing is near useless due to his disjointedness in the air. play keep-away from him with needles. NEEDLES NEEDLES NEEDLES. cant say it enough. its so late and im being so informal but idc.

GUYS LISTEN UP! If you read anything, read this:

OK this is noobish, but for a cheap kill, at around 85%, on BF i try to bait a dair while standing on a platform, once he goes for it, drop through the platform, tipper Usmash through the platform. It works. Idc how situational it is, probably the best method of killing a G&W IMO.

Um remember in the air after he uses up+B and has his parachute still out HE CANNOT AIRDODGE! So chase with an appropriate, PATIENT aerial. you can't just go chasing cause all of his aerials beats our aerials, THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS. wait for them to use the laggy fair, then FF, 2nd jump, Uair! or something like that.

I havent played this matchup in a while so i might be leaving things out, but this is how i remember it to be.

By the way, I think I remember Blistering Speed say once that when used correctly, chain barely has enough range to go through turtle. so... this might help for a few xtra damage.

Screw it, I might just make this thread an "Ask Flamingo" thread

 

[Flamingo]

me thinks this is directed towards someone ...tell us how you really feel.

To exactly who I adressed. And I made my point clear I thought.

Have humility, accept that there are things to learn. We will teach you (or the good players will, and i'll help too ). ^^

 

[Zankoku]

I select my characters as a combination of whether I enjoy playing that character and whether he/she fits a purpose. To that end, I don't actually main Sheik. However, to my knowledge there's not many characters who can **** a matchup as hard as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDCJtCojA9s

I also play Marth and Peach.

Also, maining Meta Knight takes more effort than it's worth, in my opinion.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Also, maining Meta Knight takes more effort than it's worth, in my opinion.

Explain please.

And yes Flamingo, chain outranges everything G&W has except Chef but you can withraw chain well in time to shield that.

 

[Zankoku]

The only matchups that Meta Knight actually ***** hard in are the low tier matchups, that is, the ones that don't really matter. Everything else is going to be a matter of you being at least equal in skill compared to the other player. Meta Knight just doesn't have any strongly advantageous matchups among the high tiers, and barely so in the mid tiers.

Not to mention that anybody who's worth anything should already be pretty familiar with the matchup against Meta Knight, so everything's on you to learn every ****ed matchup out there against Meta Knight if you want to stand a chance in tournament.

If I want to go for strongly favored matchups I'd learn Snake or Dedede.

 

[stealth3654]

OK this is noobish, but for a cheap kill, at around 85%, on BF i try to bait a dair while standing on a platform, once he goes for it, drop through the platform, tipper Usmash through the platform. It works. Idc how situational it is, probably the best method of killing a G&W IMO.

Screw it, I might just make this thread an "Ask Flamingo" thread

Can't GaW's dair hit through platforms?

While I'm at it, can you also tell me about the Olimar match-up? I don't want to go to a tournament and get knocked out by a random Olimar player.

Thanks.

 

[Tristan_win]

If you don't think sheik is that good and got a meta knight in the wings why not just switch to meta knight?

I know I would if I could use the **** thing.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

you see armada does alot of ftilt , fairs easy 15%. if you do like 6 of those during a stock . your opponent can basically be knocked out with a dsmash because its unstaled dsmash. or unstaled fsmash. sheik is high tier... some of us haven't woken up yet....

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Lolz i know how to play her, and yeah, naritake step might be pointless but it just seems like peoplez try to overplay and do things that are ENTIRELY superfluous instead of doing the BnB (thanks Ankoku) things that make you win a match.

Recently I have been playing MK a ton, but basically you want battlefield for this matchup. i prefer BF, you might like FD if you like to needle. BF makes Dair less of a problem, although I think dair is a horrible move. If you are thinking they are going to Dair, run. or punish at the PRECISE time. if hit correctly on you, there should be enough shield stun so he can dtilt you granted he is facing the right direction. Regardless. Bair is a problem that eats through everything we have, except our speed. if they are wasting time spacing empty Bair, run and charge needles, 2 at a time just to be safe, his range can be deceptive sometimes. (I swear that turtle grows..)
Probably the most annoying thing, an ungimpable, untouchable, STUPIDLY safe recovery that auto sweetspots like a *****. just don't try to gimp. wait for a tipper Usmash from a decayed ftilt or something... heck, he's light, Dsmash him near the edge, idk.
Ummm needles are key in this matchup, bair spacing is near useless due to his disjointedness in the air. play keep-away from him with needles. NEEDLES NEEDLES NEEDLES. cant say it enough. its so late and im being so informal but idc.

GUYS LISTEN UP! If you read anything, read this:

OK this is noobish, but for a cheap kill, at around 85%, on BF i try to bait a dair while standing on a platform, once he goes for it, drop through the platform, tipper Usmash through the platform. It works. Idc how situational it is, probably the best method of killing a G&W IMO.

Um remember in the air after he uses up+B and has his parachute still out HE CANNOT AIRDODGE! So chase with an appropriate, PATIENT aerial. you can't just go chasing cause all of his aerials beats our aerials, THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS. wait for them to use the laggy fair, then FF, 2nd jump, Uair! or something like that.

I havent played this matchup in a while so i might be leaving things out, but this is how i remember it to be.

By the way, I think I remember Blistering Speed say once that when used correctly, chain barely has enough range to go through turtle. so... this might help for a few xtra damage.

Screw it, I might just make this thread an "Ask Flamingo" thread

What about his dthrow to dsmash? That thing is wicked all his smashes are over powered anyone early on is deadly. You go about bair and dair bout what about his nair? Basically you're saying camping needles is how you win this match up? Also I don't think the platform thing works since dair can go through it. Also I wouldn't chase after g&w after he does his upB. Also wouldn't BF go against your strategy of camping needles because of the platforms?

Can't he duck your needles?

 

[saviorslegacy]

What about his dthrow to dsmash? That thing is wicked all his smashes are over powered anyone early on is deadly. You go about bair and dair bout what about his nair? Basically you're saying camping needles is how you win this match up? Also I don't think the platform thing works since dair can go through it. Also I wouldn't chase after g&w after he does his upB. Also wouldn't BF go against your strategy of camping needles because of the platforms?

Can't he duck your needles?

That wicked D-Throw can be teched. All you need is good timing, a tech and then sheild grab that silly G&W for doing a rookie combo. <,<

I agree.. Nair is equally anoying. -_- Freakin fish..... AND THEN YOU HAVE THE TURTLE!!!!! that is more anoying -_-

Yah... I play of the plat forms and then go down below to needle camp a little. Forces an approach from above.
From there you can DUCK and then USmash.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

That wicked D-Throw can be teched. All you need is good timing, a tech and then sheild grab that silly G&W for doing a rookie combo. <,<

I agree.. Nair is equally anoying. -_- Freakin fish..... AND THEN YOU HAVE THE TURTLE!!!!! that is more anoying -_-

Yah... I play of the plat forms and then go down below to needle camp a little. Forces an approach from above.
From there you can DUCK and then USmash.

That's what I thought because i rolled out of it a couple of times but I figured it was because of wifi I had checked the G&W boards and it said it connected on sheik and that it connected so I just went with that.

 

[saviorslegacy]

That's what I thought because i rolled out of it a couple of times but I figured it was because of wifi I had checked the G&W boards and it said it connected on sheik and that it connected so I just went with that.

No... I'm pretty sure you can tech it. <,< Owell... I might be thinking of CF.

 

[DarkThundah]

Wow flamingo you lol me. Time to trim the e-peen

Like it's kinda sad seeing people new come in

lol, Oh god no. NOT NEW PPL NOO!!!!!!! What can they offer that I can't?

and try to create guides

humm somethings wrong....OOIC, fixed:

and create guides

Thereweegoo!

that they created with an elitist sense

Ya know? I....I'm sry I uhh, I just dont see it.

and obviously didn't read the actually-well done ones that are avalible to them.

Well Obviously! C'mon man, lighten up. Its prettier! Its gotz graphix! lol = "ppl w/less than 1000 posts creating superior guides? Insanity! Competition? No thank you, because this is serious business".

I thought I knew a lot, but I didn't. But again, I didn't try to make guides and what-not.

^ YES there you go. An example of how not to act elitist! QQ

To contribute to the supposed topic at hand: I choose my characters based on how much fun I have with them. Sheik/Zelda = the most fun so yeah, I main her.

me thinks flamingo is being 1337s4v10r \/

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

No... I'm pretty sure you can tech it. <,< Owell... I might be thinking of CF.

Like I said I'm just going off of what the G&W boards say i'm not really too sure but you can check their dthrow thread and what characters are hit with a dsmash afterwards.

 

[sniperworm]

Like I said I'm just going off of what the G&W boards say i'm not really too sure but you can check their dthrow thread and what characters are hit with a dsmash afterwards.

If you tech the Dthrow, his Dsmash is not guaranteed. Their Dthrow thread is for guaranteed followups if the opponent doesn't tech (aka you try to buffer a roll or something even less intelligent). So make sure you tech the Dthrow people.

Of course you still need to watch out for their tech chase...

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

If you tech the Dthrow, his Dsmash is not guaranteed. Their Dthrow thread is for guaranteed followups if the opponent doesn't tech (aka you try to buffer a roll or something even less intelligent). So make sure you tech the Dthrow people.

Of course you still need to watch out for their tech chase...

Ah I see I didn't realize that like I said I wasn't to sure because I only did that online so I figure their may have been a lag factor. G&W has a lot of options after dthrow I think it's a bit of a stretch to make a G&W match up and not include his dthrow at all. If G&W jabs after his dthrow can he cancel that into a dsmash and connect it?

 

[Flamingo]

Can't GaW's dair hit through platforms?

While I'm at it, can you also tell me about the Olimar match-up? I don't want to go to a tournament and get knocked out by a random Olimar player.

Thanks.

My friend. Crouch.

I'll get on the Oli matchup later today... i have a test in 4 mins. GTG

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

My friend. Crouch.

I'll get on the Oli matchup later today... i have a test in 4 mins. GTG

speaking of ducking can't G&W duck your needles?

 

[Flamingo]

speaking of ducking can't G&W duck your needles?

His duck is horrible. hardly any characters, and I even dare to say that no character can duck under them. test it if you like. but the thing is, if G&W is playing well, he should be in the air the entire match, you know?

Lots of people forget about ducking. I implemented it in my game a few months ago, I played against a peach who liked to dair and turnip camp. Guess what? for the final kill when we were both at like 120% on our last stock, I crawled under her Dair, which missed, and immediately Usmashed, winning the match. I mean, it's a situational sort of defensive maneuver.

 

[Zankoku]

Ah I see I didn't realize that like I said I wasn't to sure because I only did that online so I figure their may have been a lag factor. G&W has a lot of options after dthrow I think it's a bit of a stretch to make a G&W match up and not include his dthrow at all. If G&W jabs after his dthrow can he cancel that into a dsmash and connect it?

speaking of ducking can't G&W duck your needles?

Both of these questions can easily be answered by trying it out yourself.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

His duck is horrible. hardly any characters, and I even dare to say that no character can duck under them. test it if you like. but the thing is, if G&W is playing well, he should be in the air the entire match, you know?

Lots of people forget about ducking. I implemented it in my game a few months ago, I played against a peach who liked to dair and turnip camp. Guess what? for the final kill when we were both at like 120% on our last stock, I crawled under her Dair, which missed, and immediately Usmashed, winning the match. I mean, it's a situational sort of defensive maneuver.

In your situation it's situational but when my opponent is trying to camp needles and I'm G&W i'd duck to see if it won't hit me.

Both of these questions can easily be answered by trying it out yourself.

I have one controller and I'm at school...I'll just reference the G&W boards and they say it's possible but then again who knows....

 

[DarkThundah]

WTF ankoku. Trolling? ME? I was making some awesome points! I was just saying what half of everyone else was thinking. Don't make me put you on my Lol list lol

 

[choknater]

haha dang ankoku... ur sig shows some good players.. but how come ur not in that banner! get ***** son!! jk jk

 

[Zankoku]

'Cause I'm not good, I've been saying this so much.

 

[sniperworm]

Ah I see I didn't realize that like I said I wasn't to sure because I only did that online so I figure their may have been a lag factor. G&W has a lot of options after dthrow I think it's a bit of a stretch to make a G&W match up and not include his dthrow at all. If G&W jabs after his dthrow can he cancel that into a dsmash and connect it?

I'm pretty sure that you can block the Dsmash if he goes jab to Dsmash since his Dsmash is pretty slow.

However, if you tech the Dthrow he can't jab you, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

To me, the only way that G&W's Dthrow really matters is if he has guaranteed tech chase followups (assuming that he guesses which way you'll roll). That or if he manages to grab you on a platform (in which case you're pretty screwed) or really near to the edge of the stage.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm pretty sure that you can block the Dsmash if he goes jab to Dsmash since his Dsmash is pretty slow.

However, if you tech the Dthrow he can't jab you, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

To me, the only way that G&W's Dthrow really matters is if he has guaranteed tech chase followups (assuming that he guesses which way you'll roll). That or if he manages to grab you on a platform (in which case you're pretty screwed) or really near to the edge of the stage.

Alright thanks for the explanation I wasn't to sure about G&W dthrow.

 

[Xyro77]

armada and sethlon need to play.

ankoku, wjy do u say your not good?

 

[DarkThundah]

This thred has gone from epeen ranting, to oli & g&w vs sheik matchups, to aparently ankoku not being good.

kill it, wast of space.

 

[Crossjeremiah]

sheik dittos are no fun. i hear sethlon is not that great, from lee.