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I mean most consistent. Meta knight has a really good one too (dthrow->bair spike->dtilt) but its much much harder
It definitely is. Roy's down throw is pretty bad, to be honest. It only has enough hitstun to allow for an up air at mid percents, Blazer, or sometimes a forward air. I can only think of one reason to use down throw over forward throw, and that's to bait an air dodge.
Fthrow to Usmash? Not in a million years. You're thinking of Dthrow. Fthrow to Ftilt at 0% only on fast fallers and heavyweights. And Fthrow to dash attack on those same matchups. Both are susceptible to DI. You're already in high tier, no need to lie.
Most consistent is incorrect. Donkey Kong, Kirby, and Sheik maintain combos for far longer than Falcon's 0-40 on just heavyweights who don't DI. And they're not weight dependent either. Furthermore, with Falcon you need more than half of FD in front of you for the combination of the dash grab, the mobile Fthrow, and the dash attack.
Roy's Fthrow combos work on more than just sheik/fast fallers. Although the throw is affected by both weight and fall speed, follow ups are still very possible and practical.
It's not on just heavyweights bruh. It's on a majority of the roster. It's pretty friggin good! You have listed 3 FThrows that are better in that regard as well but I consider Falcon's to be a cut above a large majority of the cast because of this. Perhaps I should've worded it better but I really don't care enough. I'm also unsure how DI out does anything but not make the combo counter register it, but I can't see any option actually beating the dash attack besides the Falcon player messing up? They fly too low to the ground, I would ASSUME jump away but I'm doubtful? Regardless I think Falcon's F-Throw is ranked a bit low in the preliminary list.
Fthrow Usmash is a thing man. The move was a chaingrab tool in Brawl, remember. Maybe it needs a dash grab? Pit's probably getting one anyway, so... The move's not weight dependent, so that's not a gigantic factor.
Momentum or not, it's not a true combo under any circumstance. Would it have killed you to try for yourself? Furthermore, Pit does have a combo throw of his own, why opt for an inferior option if you had the choice?
...What?
ReRaze
Fthrow Usmash is true isn't it? I distinctly remember going over low percent throw combos with you some time ago.
It most certainly can true combo. It's not common but it can, it works for ages on DK....What?
Zapp Branniglenn
LancerStaff
ReRaze
Fthrow → Usmash on DK won't work at 0% in Training Mode, even when I frame skip for Pit's sake to try making it as true as I can attempt it to be. This includes just straight-running uncharged up smash or jump-cancelling up-smash. No matter how much I tried for 10 minutes, I couldn't get it to true combo DK DI'ing away from Pit Fthrow. However, Fthrow → Instant Dash attack is true & deals 21% & that's better damage than Dthrow → Usmash OR Uair.
X -> S S -> A S -> A B -> A C -> A C -> B C -> B B -> C D -> C D -> C F -> D D -> F
**
^This is important. Bowser's heavy yet floaty nature makes him much less susceptible to weight dependent throws. Weight, floaty-ness, airspeed and tools all come into play.Furthermore, here are the weight based combo throws that lose several or all of their followups when throwing heavier targets (not counting throws that lack followups to begin with).
For some of these it matters more than others. When throwing Bowser, Luigi only loses one or two optimal options. But Dr. Mario, Falcon, Yoshi, Ganondorf, Link, Little Mac, Lucario, and Mega Man lose 90-100% of true followups ranges. Marth and Lucina keep Dolphin Slash as a followup, but it puts them at risk to choose that, and they can't seem to Uair anything heavier than a sheik or similarly attributed opponent. Another potential issue comes from lack of practice. It's comical to watch Mario Perform Utilt instead of full hop Uair. You can only buffer one input, and the game prioritizes the last as the player doesn't account for their increased endlag. With these weight based throws, you need to explicitly practice comboing different targets.
gets a good amount of true combos from Dthrow vs most of the cast. Even if the combos aren't true Link can read an airdodge 50/50. Details are here:.
.. These are the characters whose d throws lead into rewarding combos and in some cases KO set-ups...
IDK about the others but this is completely wrong for Link. His Dthrow usually has followups from 10-100% and can combo into Uair to take stocks.Here the in-between d throws. Typically these throws lose their combo potential past lower percents, or are only useful as stock-caps:
You can get consistent followups but it's different for different characters. Link's slow with low jumps so you have to know the %s and options but everything on the chart is guaranteed. Some characters do get a lot more followups on them (Kirby) then others (Samus). It's at least as good as G&W's.
Ok so it doesn't work as well on DI away but that wasn't the point (you don't need DI in btw), the point was that it's a thing unlike what
They would have to DI in for your Fthrow to make it true combo Usmash, but that's a DI mixup discussion I suppose.
EDIT: Even if Fthrow → Usmash could true combo with the character holding DI toward you, I'd rather dash attack personally because you suffer less endlag on top of having a better positional advantage of the moment, & you only deal 2% less damage rather than doing dash attack which is way more reliable & true anyhow.
EDIT #2: Ah man, I forgot to try turnaround jump-canceled up smash out of the dash from Fthrow. Whoops, guess I'll attempt that sometime later tomorrow.
Zapp Branniglenn
was saying that it doesn't work under any circumstances. If you need a video or something just let me know. Again Fthrow > Dash attack is certainly more reliable and its pretty damaging I agree, but I was just pointing out that Fthrow > Usmash is actually a thing. DI away from pit is suboptimal in most scenarios anyways...Doesn't cloud in Limit have access to true combos into Nair which in turn can lead into Limit Cross Slash? pretty sure MSC covered it in his vid.Seeing as how Dthrows are mainly about comboing and not killing outright, let's build a list of down throws with no true combo potential on any matchup or range:
) is probably C since it has some follow-ups at low percentages.) is probably C as well. It deals a respectable 10.2% damage and at high percentages his other throws don't lead into anything, unless you can get them off the stage. Sure, you could use up-throw instead for 10% damage, but you might not want to stale it, since it's a kill-throw.
-A. His main damage starter at low percents combos into every aerial aside Dair and of course his infamous triple Fair. Combos till mid-high percentages on most of the cast. being S. A combo throw at low and a kill throw at high pecents very good move for her and her game A good combo throw against a large part of the cast but often won't work on a few others (such as or ). Also can set up a kill confirm on a good portion of the cast. It's not as constant as other top level combo down throws though. I'd say B because it isn't quite as reliable on some characters. I love how he body slams the character under him. Really only used for damage in between the point when up throw launches them too far and when back or forward throw won't kill. It does around 12% so seriously, don't let Bowser grab you. C tier only because good damage One down throw can equal over 40%. I call that an easy S tier throw Same thing for Mario honestly. Prepatch was like SSS but now I'd say A or even S because he can still demolish you at low % with one throw
: Ganon's d-throw is around B-tier in my opinion (if we're ranking throws like Mewtwo's as C). Decent combo potential at low- to mid-percents, as well as a pseudo 50-50 with D-air near the ledge. He can also get F-air at kill percents if they don't DI away. Of course, the followups Ganon can get are inconsistent due to his poor mobility, and his followups become worse the lighter his opponent (becomes significantly more noticeable with the superheavies).
I said it doesn't work under any circumstance because I didn't take the time to test every character at every percent. With how impossible it looked on Mario, I saw no need to spend time proving 3% of the claim. Mario is the default test subject because he possesses no special attributes like fast falling, low or high weight, or a large hurtbox like the punching bag, DK. Even if you ignore DI, it's only been proposed to connect on DK. Yet during the five posts before that the presumed argument was "It probably work on everybody!" and "it works on nobody". You need to be able to provide even one proof of a claim and it took several days for somebody to come in and name drop DK. That's one out of 58. And I'm not expecting more than two or three additions to the list. The verdict is that ALL of Pit's fthrow followups are susceptible to DI. And fthrow is naturally outclassed by Dthrow in all scenarios.Ok so it doesn't work as well on DI away but that wasn't the point (you don't need DI in btw), the point was that it's a thing unlike what
It's true that that's a DI mixup, but in training mode FD, Bayonetta's Dthrow kills Mario on 196 with DI in. 200 for no DI, and 209 for DI away. I can't imagine an opponent living so long in any competitive match. It would be more rare than...well, Bayonetta killing with Fthrow.
I was unaware of Dthrow to Nair on fast fallers at 0%. Though I doubt it would still connect should the victim DI away. Gunner's Nair swings in all directions, except above and behind, and that's the direction you're trying to reach for a dthrow followup. I have an issue with the assertion that it frame traps. It has neither the active frames to beat an air dodge, nor a quick enough FAF where Gunner would act first against an air dodging opponent. As for Uair, again you're fighting the victim's DI away. Even if they air dodge too fast and get trapped, equal or better air speed can save them as they drift. And you can't expect kills as soon as 120% as long as they are air dodge, since they fall further from the ceiling blast zone for the final hit to kill.
