R.O.B. Advanced Tech, Tactics, and Tips

[(1UP)]

what's up guys, finally time to show my face around here
I'm going to be making a video of some gyro tech with ROB within the next few days (whenever my USB adapter gets here), but until then here's a sneak peek at some of the stuff i'll be showing off:
http://www.twitch.tv/deadlywolf844/b/517374296?t=1h41m13s it goes on for roughly 45 seconds

 

[KuroganeHammer]

oh it's @ bubbaking

that sure does take me back to the stuff I used to do for brawl Dedede

 

[DrinkingFood]

what's up guys, finally time to show my face around here
I'm going to be making a video of some gyro tech with ROB within the next few days (whenever my USB adapter gets here), but until then here's a sneak peek at some of the stuff i'll be showing off:
http://www.twitch.tv/deadlywolf844/b/517374296?t=1h41m13s it goes on for roughly 45 seconds

I've been doing a thing for awhile now where I glide toss down towards the edge then recatch gyro with Z as soon as I go off
mostly it's just for show but I use it to retreat when the opponent has respawn invinc as well

 

[(1UP)]

I've been doing a thing for awhile now where I glide toss down towards the edge then recatch gyro with Z as soon as I go off
mostly it's just for show but I use it to retreat when the opponent has respawn invinc as well

yeah, I showed it once at the end of that little clip, though I failed my AGTs I was supposed to do after that .

grabbing gyro isn't the only thing you can do there, because you're airborne you can forward AGT the gyro back at them right away for example (thus landing back onstage) or AGT downwards to escape a platform
and for me it's with X, not Z, claw masterrace tho

i'll explain everything in more detail (like why it matters at all) once I upload the video. that may be as soon as tomorrow

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

IDK where to write this so i am putting it in this thread. first I want to say that in some ways rob is one of the best made characters in that if he was ported into melee he would be a high mid tier or high tier character. That being said I feel that in the environment of PM he is lacking. He has a few problems which I feel if addressed would make him a better and completed character.

1: he has bad oos options. his roll is bad his shield is small and his only 2 decently fast oos options are his upsmash and fair. his fair only covers things in front of him and his upsmash only hits with the side weak hit which pops into the stronger hit, this can be cc or di'ed and punished so its also not a very good option.

Here are some solutions to this issue. 1: give his grounded up b a hitbox and make it activate fast so he can up-b oos to get away from pressure. 2: give his up-b some invincibility frames so he just escape pressure.

2: His recovery is very predictable and at times very bad in certain positions.

Now I understand some people think his recovery is very good for some reason, but I feel it could use a few tweaks. One idea if possible is to make it so it can go diagonal instead of just straight up or sidways. Another idea is to add the ability to charge it like diddy's up-b and luigi's side B for some more distance. (not as much as luigi can gain but more then the current un-boosted side B.

3: Lastly his kill power is very lacking.

The easy solution to this is to just make his moves kill earlier. But I was thinking instead of boosting a bunch of his moves power how about instead just boosting the power of certain moves that share a trait. Like boosting all the moves that use his fire from his rocket feet, such as nair, bair, up-smash, and dair. or maybe the ones that use his laser eyes such as up-air, fsmash, and fully charged laser. Of course you could just change up certain moves with dont have a connection to each other such as stronger tilts or something.

Once again i think rob is well made but just feels lacking next to a bunch of the other characters in this game. I feel these are suggestions which will give him the buffs he needs without taking away from how he is currently built and without making him broken or just to good.

ps. I understand this is just my opinion on the character, but i just wanted to voice my thoughts and concerns on his current pm build

 

[DrinkingFood]

1. Iirc ROB actually does have invinc on grounded up-b, straight outta brawl, it's like 4-5 frames. But you're right that his OoS options are definitely subpar. Anyone smart enough should know they can CC usmash out of shield if they bother to space that close, and ROB has no other threat up close out of shield that makes CC a bad idea, only grab which doesn't care either way. His OoS options are great with a gyro, but I don't feel like the solution to ROB should always be "hurr durr get a gyro" because it's really not that simple.

2. His recovery is fine. It's got a huge distance and a lot of options, especially for stalling and shooting at edgeguarding opponents. Being really susceptible to gimps and mostly following a linear recovery path is a fair trade-off, for sure.

3. ROB isn't really lacking kill power. Usmash kills spacies off the top at 110 percent, with good DI, and can be combo'd into out of dthrow very easily.
On floaties, they'll die off the top around that percent from Nair, and much earlier from usmash.
Bair also kills well because it sends at a low-ish angle, and will set up for edgeguards at low percents... if you can hit with it.
You shouldn't be relying on fsmash that much, it isn't very good. It's very disjointed, and can hit opponents hanging on the ledge, but it doesn't have a whole lot of knockback and the hitbox only lasts for 2 frames. Beside ending dthrow CGs on spacies with it (and I think bair might be better for that purpose anyway), you'd really only get great results out of it at either very high damage, or near the edge to set-up for edgeguarding, or to cover options on an opponent who has to up-b to the ledge.
Remember also that ROB can and should be going very heavily for gimps as well. Fair is basically jiggs fair, uair is basically falcon's, and he's got three boosts+jump, so he can go out, cover a lot of options, smack the opponent out the blast zone, and still recover.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

well happy to see that it is agreed his oos options are lacking and could use a buff. I believe this buff alone might be enough to make rob a very viable character in pm.

I am going to skip ahead to his kill power first. I do agree his upsmash is strong and only included it b/c i was naming attacks that use his booster. Still i wouldnt name his upsmash as a good kill move b/c it is hard to hit at kill %'s so its not very reliable. I am surprised to hear that his nair is that strong, while I feel like its not weak i often find myself surprised at things surviving my boosted nair at decently high %'s, maybe I am mostly fighting ff's. What i didnt know was that f-smash only last for two frames, I haven't been using it much b/c it didnt feel very good and know I know why. With this new knowledge I would just suggest making that move last a couple more frames that could really help rob out.

I can let the recovery issue I have go, but i do wish he could go diagonally. this would help from when i get stuck under stages when going for gimps, this would let me just use one boost instead of two to back from under the stage to a position where I can use a boost to get to the ledge.

I do have a question, its been a long time since I have played brawl but i remember robs f-tilt having more knockback at higher %'s and his d-tilt being safer (did it trip sometimes in brawl i dont recall). have these been changed or is it a melee mechanic thing?

edit: just wondering why his rolls were never changed, there is no good reason for him to have such terrible rolls.

 

[DrinkingFood]

JCaesar doesn't believe in ROB buffs
His continued success at Xanadu is proof that Fsmash doesn't need to be accurate to the graphics
that rolls don't need to be good
that getting shield poked at almost full shield doesn't matter
that side-b only needs to do its job 75% of the time anyways

 

[(1UP)]

been working on the video for the past couple hours.
it looks like it's going to be fairly lengthy, and I want to make it a quality video (as in, people who don't main ROB/may not know certain terms will actually be able to understand it), so I may not be able to finish it tonight

 

[DrinkingFood]

Good, I can't wait to steal some of your tricks
Even though I know some of them, I want to see exactly how well they can be used
You are very generous
Compared to me at least, I will probably not ever bother making a video to share my tricks

 

[Juushichi]

I know my ROB is pretty basic and lacking a ton of gyro tricks, but the next time you're around 1UP, I'll show you a few of my movement tricks as well as one of my 2 favorite shield/cross up options.

 

[(1UP)]

Good, I can't wait to steal some of your tricks
Even though I know some of them, I want to see exactly how well they can be used

there won't be a whole lot of footage vs. human opponents, but fortunately I don't really need much in the way of that.
I also do not run dolphin at 60FPS because my laptop is slow, so frame-by-frame dissections are going to be impossible
other than that, there shouldn't be anything wrong with it and I'm glad I have some motivation to make it

I know my ROB is pretty basic and lacking a ton of gyro tricks, but the next time you're around 1UP, I'll show you a few of my movement tricks as well as one of my 2 favorite shield/cross up options.

unfortunately I'm not going to be in cbus again until august
duly noted though

 

[(1UP)]

here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rWtMwZvKY
good luck

 

[bubbaking]

I agree for the most part with N.A.G.A.C.E. aka Ben. ROB's kill power is pretty lacking. I don't know if we're playing the same game here, but I don't recall killing the spacees with usmash that early when they DI well unless we were playing on YS or something. That's fine and dandy, though. I don't really expect to kill spacees vertically anyway. The real problem is that ROB can rarely combo into his kill moves during percents at which they would kill. For instance, dthrow > nair doesn't work at kill %'s against most chars. He has to go for uair and that is much, much weaker. Nothing combos into usmash outside of low %'s. He.....doesn't have other strong kill moves. At least he has a throw that kills most of the cast at 150%. <__<

 

[Vickyboi]

What about Uair then?
It does like 20% if you hit with all the hits and if they DI wrong it kills off the side really early, dthrow>boost uair combos well at kill%.
And when dthrow doesn't combo any longer you can often just uthrow them for the kill.

 

[Bstuk]

here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rWtMwZvKY
good luck

Awesome, thanks for posting. Some really interesting new stuff in here, everyone should check this out.

 

[Oracle]

here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7rWtMwZvKY
good luck

Looks sick. Im definitely gonna steal the **** out of some of this lmao

 

[(1UP)]

I suppose I should give my own experiences with that tech so far also
the two pieces in that video that I use most often are gyro-jumping and multi-tossing. I gyro-jump a LOT, to the point where I consider it to be essential to ROB's item game, or maybe just his game in general. it actually makes him quite good at platform camping too, on standard 3-platform stages
I'm getting used to using the retreat on platforms, to a good deal of success when I remember to use it, and holy hell was it satisfying when I wall-tossed successfully in tourney yesterday
the rest of the stuff is kind of counter-intuitive so I may not be on that level yet haha

 

[bubbaking]

What about Uair then?
It does like 20% if you hit with all the hits and if they DI wrong it kills off the side really early, dthrow>boost uair combos well at kill%.
And when dthrow doesn't combo any longer you can often just uthrow them for the kill.

I mentioned both of these things already. After dthrow > nair stops working, you have to go for uair and that won't kill until really late. You'd have to get at least three more dthrow > uairs before you might actually send the opponent far enough, and ROB can't even string in more boost uairs to rack damage because the opponent is sent too far. Your best bet at this point is to try to hit with a fully-charged beam for the kill or with a light beam for the gimp. Uthrow doesn't kill until 150%, so that doesn't really help matters.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Which percentage is this normally (when d-throw nair stops working), assuming a average weight and fallspeed so one can easily extrapolate it on other values?

 

[bubbaking]

Idk, around 100 I guess. You can just test this yourself. <__<

 

[Chesstiger2612]

OK thank you, I will try it out. Was asking first because then I can check if I am doing it right (sometimes you otherwise get used to bad timing or misspacing)

 

[DrinkingFood]

If they DI away dthrow nair stops working really early just because forward is the last place nair hits :/ depends on the character tho. so if you dthrow them you'd have to go for a fair or uair even at earlier percents
Which isn't too terrible because then you could go for a fair string into an edgeguard

 

[Juushichi]

You can probably pivot nair to catch it if you want it to hit with a hitbox earlier.

 

[JCaesar]

1UP do you have a twitter? This is a fantastic, informative video and I'm gonna tweet it out and I want to make sure you get the credit you deserve.

I don't think I've wanted to practice smash tech skill this much in like a decade heh.

 

[(1UP)]

1UP do you have a twitter? This is a fantastic, informative video and I'm gonna tweet it out and I want to make sure you get the credit you deserve.

I don't think I've wanted to practice smash tech skill this much in like a decade heh.

hold on, I'm setting it up right now @1UPpm
this stuff does get pretty technical when used one on top of the other, so be prepared

 

[Juushichi]

I'll be sure to add it. : )

 

[Vickyboi]

Do we have a ROB skype chat?

 

[DrinkingFood]

There's like less than 10 ROB mains and we hardly ever talk
So no there isn't one and for the same reason there doesn't need to be one

 

[(1UP)]

There's like less than 10 ROB mains and we hardly ever talk
So no there isn't one and for the same reason there doesn't need to be one

I disagree
correct me if I'm wrong but lately this board's been more active than it used to be

 

[JCaesar]

There's an old school Brawl ROB Skype chat

For PM ROB discussion we tried a facebook group but it didn't stay active very long. Anyone interested in reviving it?

 

[Juushichi]

I think a skype is probably more useful than a FB group, so I probably wouldn't join the latter.

 

[(1UP)]

I've found a few more interesting nuances with a couple pieces of the gyro tech that definitely expand their uses, so I might make a (much shorter) video within the next day or two
this stuff isn't going to make your jaw drop or anything but I consider it very practical so I don't want to leave it out

 

[megaexplosion]

Just a quick question from a fairly new R.O.B. player: does anyone else have a really hard time wave-dashing with him?

Apart from a the occasional wave-land, I can't for the life of me consistently wave-dash with R.O.B. It also seems, from the matches I've seen, that people don't wave-dash too much with him either. So is the wave-dash good or should I just focus on mastering other R.O.B. strats?

 

[DrinkingFood]

ROB has a mediocre wavedash because it takes him 5 frames to get off the ground and he doesn't go very far, but it's important for picking up your gyro and exiting your shield safely. If you have issues with it, that might be because you are used to another character's timing.

 

[Sneez]

Quick question: I've seen a few robs do the ground side-b straight into his down smash, how do you do this?

 

[DrinkingFood]

By down smashing after your grounded side-b
Really, there's no trick to it

 

[Sneez]

I'm having a tough time getting the down smash out this fast, maybe my timing is just a bit off?
http://youtu.be/lsBN9tpW9Yg?t=40s

 

[batistabus]

I like this guy. Comboing into laser for the off-screen finish is soooooo satisfying.

Also, I don't see how people say ROB's recovery is OP. He's the only character in the game that doesn't get a refresh when he grabs the ledge, which is a big deal.

 

[(1UP)]

I like this guy. Comboing into laser for the off-screen finish is soooooo satisfying.

Also, I don't see how people say ROB's recovery is OP. He's the only character in the game that doesn't get a refresh when he grabs the ledge, which is a big deal.

I think people have stopped complaining about it for the most part (and/or by now they know how to deal with it). sure, it covers plenty of distance, but the window where you can interrupt him is pretty large compared to some other characters.
he can recover high for days on end though