R.O.B. Advanced Tech, Tactics, and Tips

[DrinkingFood]

When I'm thinking about it next i'll test that weak toss regrab tech in frame advance and let you know if it's possible. I highly doubt it is Since PM has higher traction than brawl.

 

[Mister Eric]

Yeah, it was already insanely hard in Brawl. And just looking at glide distance, it doesn't look possible at all. Weak glide tossing in PM is so beeping hard as well.

 

[DrinkingFood]

You can set the c-stick to tilts to make weak glide tossing forward easier, but that also makes retreating strong glide tosses harder
Not really worth it since I don't think that tech works, forgot to test it frame by frame to be sure tho

 

[Mister Eric]

You can set the c-stick to tilts to make weak glide tossing forward easier, but that also makes retreating strong glide tosses harder
Not really worth it since I don't think that tech works, forgot to test it frame by frame to be sure tho

What do you use to test it?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Frame advance in the dolphin emulator

 

[Dandizzle]

Can someone clarify the options we have to get gyro from ledge? The shoot it on stage into booster waveland one is pretty self explanatory, but I have no idea how you would be able to gyro jump from ledge to catch it. With a really strict tming I can gyro jump into a AGT that throws the gyro onstage, but I don't see how you could get it in your hands.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Gyro jump with a Z-catch instead, then boost back to the edge. That and the ones you named are as good as it gets.

 

[Dandizzle]

I already do that but I can't seem to get enough momentum with only one jump to get to it. Do I jump from the ledge or fall off backwards and b-reverse the gyro then jump into grab? I've been trying to do this for hours. I can do most of the other gyro tech just not this.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Release ledge->jump backwards->turn around without b-reversing and shoot uncharged gyro as quickly as possible->try to retain momentum the whole time->Z-catch gyro when you catch up with it you have to fall pretty far)->boost back up

 

[Dandizzle]

I did it but god damn do you have to go deep! I don't know if I'll ever do this considering you have to burn pretty much everything just to get it, I imagine with someone trying to stop you it would be suicide. Maybe I can use it as a mixup against more onstage edgeguarders but thanks for the help anyway

 

[(1UP)]

its definitely not easy. A lot can go wrong because the timing is so strict (it wouldn't be fun getting stuck under the ledge with no jump and no boosts) so I would have 100% confidence in pulling it off before I did it mid-match.

Z catching can be easier than AGT here though because you don't have to airdodge in the other direction anymore.

 

[Dandizzle]

Is there any tech or strategy for mixing up getting back to the stage? Against this one player no matter what mixup I did with boosters, stalls and projectiles I would almost always be successfully edgeguarded by his Falco or Ganon. I know about the AGT's from throwing gyro's at walls, fairjumping, and down aerial/back aerial stalling but I was wondering if there was something to make my recoveries harder to react to. Any help is appreciated.

 

[DrinkingFood]

A video of at least an explanation of how he was edgeguarding you is kinda required before we can advise you.

 

[Dandizzle]

Theres no capture cards or nothing there. Basically I felt that he never had to commit to a read on one of my recovery choices because I was always in a easily punishable spot. My main problems were

1. Getting back to the ground if I recovered high on a stage without a platform or with very spread out platforms. On stages with really close together and low to the ground platforms (I should mention these were just a long series of friendlies, no counterpicking or nothing) I could just shield drop or do whatever from there but otherwise I would pretty much always get punished regardless of what I did. I imagine this just isn't a good option in these situations. The only reason I really did it at all is because of number 2.

2. Coming from the ledge to a neutral or advantageous position on stage eventually. My get up attack, dodge and jump seem really ****ty and even though I practiced getting gyro from ledge I don't think its really viable when someone is right there waiting for you. If I got onstage I would get under high pressure without being able to create any space or distance from him and none of my moves seemed to be quick enough to smack him when he was Falco, leaving me the choice to shield, roll or spotdodge, which were all very punishable from a Falco with shine and pretty good speed. So from there I would either be comboed, sent back offstage or just killed.

I don't exactly think this is matchup related because I beat a different Falco there plus if I did get a grab or get him offstage I would usually kill him or at least know I could of if I didn't mess up. (which I will do less if I play more people) Also his Ganon was just really good and I think I went too aggro plus didn't respect the space Ganon can cover with a move, my Ike may be a bit better in this matchup if I wasn't so **** with him in comparsion to my R.O.B.

I was mostly looking for more general tips and maybe examples of cool recoveries from R.O.B but If it would be easier/more effective for you to be more precise, so be it.

 

[(1UP)]

i try to avoid recovering to the ledge with ROB if at all possible for the reasons you gave already. using extra boosts to recover high seems worth it to me in most cases, and the combination of gyrojump, multitoss, and gyro cancel (along with any leftover boosts) is excellent for a safe landing, as they all provide key momentum shifts. get into the habit of saving your midair jump, this is what I use it for.

bonus points if ganon uairs the gyro

 

[Dandizzle]

I guess I should save my jump so I can do that stuff from there, I never thought of applying that gyro tech while recovering. I do all of that stuff besides the multitoss, I thought that was more of an EY LOOK AT ME HERE DOING THIS MULTITOSS pop off kinda thing but I can see its use now. And this might be a off topic and kinda vague question but do you guys have secondaries and if so what are they? I've been kinda bouncing around characters to go with R.O.B but I want one that just plays the M.U's with him I don't enjoy like Charizard, not just a spacie or another "top tier" because in my mind I would just be better off playing them as a whole, but I enjoy playing R.O.B more. I'm open to a lot of characters I just wanna make sure they can do what R.O.B can't. I'm pretty close to just playing R.O.B solo it's just that I feel I have no hope against some characters and I am god damn tired of losing to my friend all the time with his god damn Charizard, and I seem to do better when I play other characters who do better in the matchup. Also I think R.O.B in doubles is kidna meh, so it would be nice if I had someone else to play teams with.

 

[(1UP)]

at this time I have no secondaries, though I have tried my hand at mewtwo, zard, and squirtle in the past.

also keep in mind with multitossing that you can break the chain anytime you want (and after 1-2 tosses, whichever is appropriate, I would recommend doing so tbh; I've had the **** kicked out of me for forgetting that I use it to land, not go EY LOOK AT ME HERE DOING THIS MULTITOSS).

 

[Dandizzle]

Well thanks for the help, maybe one day I can actually contribute to this thread with some original R.O.B tech, tactics or tips! I might of found something where if you are gyrojumping from ledge if you do a fair right after you shoot the gyro you can catch the gyro a bit quicker, but I was only able to do this once or twice which I don't get because I do every step as fast as possible, but maybe someone who is actually proficient at it can see if I'm not mistaken.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Have you tried edgedashing? ROB's isn't the fastest but it's still his fastest way to get to an idle state from the edge.
And did you try edge hop->low boost->perfect waveland inwards? It's great for taking back center stage from the edge because it's quick and is invincible most of the duration if done well right after you refresh your invinc. You can refresh invinc just by releasing edge and boosting back to it. Once the opponent starts respecting your ability to boost waveland so far in they'll give you more room at the edge for fear of losing center stage. And if they don't you can just boost in, soft land (boost has no landing lag if done close to the ground) and whip out a dsmash. That is also reasonably quick and has a lot of invinc off a refresh.
When going high I usually come down with a fast fall nair. It has the highest priority below and in front of him of any of his moves, the only issue is that it's slow to hit there, but if you start high it's not an issue.

 

[Dandizzle]

Now that is what I wanted to hear! I did not try doing the low boost thing but it does make a lot of sense. And by edgedashing do you mean just jumping up and wavedashing?

Also I asked this before on a different thread but I didn't get a response, how would you guys feel if I made a new matchup thread for R.O.B considering the old one is dead and the title hasn't even updated past v2.5? I probably would start it when 3.5 comes it but I would love to have new discussion about matchups and it may draw people to pick up R.O.B for themselves. I for one would like to know if my ideas of his MU spread are shared plus discussing characters unmentioned or changed since the last thread. If I were to do this what kidna format would you like? Weekly things, free for all etc.? Anyone else is free to make the new thread as well, considering I have never done one and only am a amateur R.O.B player.

Edit: Unless anyone is against it or does it themselves I will most likely start when upon the release of 3.5

 

[Player-1]

People should Usmash OoS, it's really good

 

[Dandizzle]

Woops I wrote a response to the social thread in here, my bad. Also P1 Upsmash OOS is good when they do something laggy on shield or is randomly jumping above you while pressuring your shield, but not as an actual get off me move, for it is 2 slow and the hitbox is too high up in a lot of cases IMO.

 

[Player-1]

it is goodin general and the hitbox is bigger than you expect. First hit is frame 5 + 1 frame for a jump cancel so it's faster than grabbing which is frame 7. I'll say that the vast majority of the time the first hit will lead into the strong 2nd hit unless they're behind you they tend to fall out more often probably because the back end most likely has a smaller hitbox than the front.

 

[Player-1]

edit: double post

 

[DrinkingFood]

Usmash OoS would be good if it weren't easy to CC. Tall characters will still get hit by the second hit but everyone else just gets a free punish if they CC the usmash, unless they below a certain weight and get knocked down.

 

[Player-1]

Usmash OoS should be used for a punish on an unsafe move on shield, they can't CC because they're in the cooldown of their move on shield.

edit: plus people don't tend to try to CC something while you're sitting in shield since you have limited options that aren't usually susceptible to a CC like grab

 

[DrinkingFood]

You can CC while you are in the cooldown of a move lol
Also as soon as they realize they can CC your upsmash OoS they are going to start option selecting for it, unless they are bad

 

[bubbaking]

Hmmm, I think that when you try to CC during the animation of another move, it is referred to auto-CC or something. It's not as effective as 'real CC' (I think KB may not be decreased) but it still lets you SDI into the ground and stuff. Not exactly sure, but I've definitely seen those terms before on the Melee Samus boards.

I use usmash OoS sometimes, but I also don't think it's that reliable. For me, it's because the first hit can actually be DI'd out of. I don't usually get punished if it hits because the opponent gets popped up in the air, but I don't get that second hit, so at low %'s I'm fairly certain I'm very punishable. WD OoS is always good, though. Not enough players use that, even though it's really basic.

 

[Player-1]

You can CC while you are in the cooldown of a move lol
Also as soon as they realize they can CC your upsmash OoS they are going to start option selecting for it, unless they are bad

no you can't lol. If you're in the animation of one of your moves you can't go into the animation of another move, you can DI during another move. If you don't want to use it and stay bad forever that's fine by me. I just thought I'd share because this will be essential for ROB players if 3.5 doesn't give us OoS options.

 

[Dandizzle]

If you don't want to use it and stay bad forever that's fine by me.

YO WE ESPORTS NOW!?!?!?!

 

[DrinkingFood]

no you can't lol. If you're in the animation of one of your moves you can't go into the animation of another move, you can DI during another move. If you don't want to use it and stay bad forever that's fine by me. I just thought I'd share because this will be essential for ROB players if 3.5 doesn't give us OoS options.

Lololololol
Disregarding the hilarious irony of you calling me out, apparently you don't know how CCing works. There are two types of crouch cancels: True CCing (done by crouching) and pseudo CCing (done by ASDIing down into the ground). True CCing accomplishes both of these, since you are holding down during the crouch it also causes the ASDI (automatic SDI). But most of the time when people talk about CCing a move they aren't referring to the crouch, they are referring to the cancelling of hitstun. CCing cancels hitstun by forcing landing the character back down on the ground the same frame they aren't launched by a move, using downward ASDI which can be done at any time. Don't believe me? Go in game as like ROB v marth or something. Have ROB fsmash in the opposite direction, and hold down. Then use marth's jab or something else weak on ROB before his fsmash ends, so that he can't crouch. He won't be picked up off the ground and won't experience any hitstun because of the CC.

 

[Player-1]

....so it's DI which is what I said...

 

[bubbaking]

Guys, please, I already said, holding down while performing a move allows you to perform auto-CC or 'fake CC' (I've heard it called both of those), so you're both technically correct.

 

[(1UP)]

my general solution is just to not shield
obviously i still have a button for it, for wavedashes and AGT shenanigans, but considering you always have the chance of getting poked (barely kidding when i say always), it just gives me one less thing to worry about. unless I'm making a conscious effort to hit very hard out of a particular setup, I don't find his OoS options all that enticing when you always run the risk of getting shafted

 

[bubbaking]

I can see what you'e getting at, but that really isn't a solution when you're dealing with a char who is faster than us (Fox, Sheik, etc.) who is also safe on CC.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Lol, I Dairjump with R.O.B

 

[Jity]

So in the interest of reviving this thread, and I have no idea if this is already common knowledge, but ROB can reset his boost count without actually properly landing if he ends up intersecting the stage's collision with his huge disk of a lower body; it's easiest on stages with slanted collision boxes, but it's possible even when boosting from off-stage onto a stage with a completely horizontal collision box, and even, if timed well enough, just by coming down onto a stage with totally horizontal collision from above. (I tested it on Warioware, PS2, and Battlefield; to do it from on-stage, you have to fall until you're just about to land before boosting; if you boost in the proper window, ROB's feet will collide with the stage without ever actually triggering a landing, and he'll be able to boost indefinitely as long as you keep hitting the window.)

I included a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a88jKmSxIzI

Unfortunately I couldn't get the camera to properly pick up my CRT, and the on-stage variant wasn't something I was able to do on my laggy HDTV, but you get the basic idea from what I was able to record.

As for applications, I don't think there really are any. I could see it as a mixup when boosting on stage instead of a waveland, but beyond that, ROB doesn't really have many options out of a boost that low to the ground. Still, I dunno, kind of neat. Impress your friends with it or something.

Edit: It actually just occured to me to try this on a platform, and that definitely worked, so there might be some practical application for this yet. ROB's options out of boost are much better from that high off the ground.

Edit 2: I also forgot to mention, this can only be done out of the first or second boosts. If you've already triggered the animation for the third boost, this tech won't work. Why that is I don't know.

Applications include:

-Mixing up aerial boost approach options
-Maintaining your boost options when recovering onto stage, either onto a platform or directly onto stage (More useful onto a platform obviously)
-Getting across stage quickly while keeping all your boosts (Really iffy)
-Fun
-Bet your friends ROB has more than three boosts and then win money from them when they say that he obviously doesn't

Endless possibilities!

 

[Dandizzle]

J A N K B O Y S

 

[(1UP)]

-Mixing up aerial boost approach options
-Maintaining your boost options when recovering onto stage, either onto a platform or directly onto stage (More useful onto a platform obviously)
-Getting across stage quickly while keeping all your boosts (Really iffy)
-Fun
-Bet your friends ROB has more than three boosts and then win money from them when they say that he obviously doesn't

Endless possibilities!

so if you had a gyro sitting on the ground, you could AGT as a mixup?
lmao that's gravy

the boost > turnaround edgehog at 3:15 was cool too, not sure how you did that heh

also - do you get your jump back if you've used it already?

 

[Jity]

The Boost > Ledgehog I think was a result of ROB maintaining slight momentum out of a boost that ended almost right on the ledge; he turned around out of a perfect landing and slid off, grabbing the ledge.

I think that you get your jump back, but I would have to double check to be sure. I'll do some tests on it later tonight when I have the time and report back.