Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
the most persistent
-
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R.I.P. Kjell Anders "Nappy" Peterson.
- Thread starter SuSa
- Start date
Albert.
Smash Master
Hey guys can anybody link me to some awesome video sets of Snake V Diddy match-up ? Where the snake wins.
I really like watching that match-up, it seems like there's a lot going on.
Thanks
I really like watching that match-up, it seems like there's a lot going on.
Thanks
I did say it was flawed but I certainly didn't expect THAT, low res and it actually looks much better if you run it on an emulator lol, but I still love SS' aesthetics either way, best of the art styles they've cycled through IMO.
Mike2
Smash Ace
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
the most persistent
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
I rarely face a Pit and have little knowledge on it. Judging by the time and your persistence, I think most others here might be in the same boat I am.
Oh, and today is that day for the blackout. Google has its own thing. Wikipedia has its own thing. This might be really effective.
Why exactly due the images look more crisp on an emulator? I've only see melee on the emulator, but if other games are more crisp too... why is that?Etecoon said:
Oh, and today is that day for the blackout. Google has its own thing. Wikipedia has its own thing. This might be really effective.
The Wii and GameCube output at a much lower resolution than modern consoles and computers, an emulator bypasses this and allows you to play Wii and GameCube games in HD(though the textures may still be bad because of space constraints or whatever, but it does look better)
I really need to look into whether or not my computer can handle this, Skyward Sword is already gorgeous even not in HD and I'm thinking about replaying it soon
Protest helps but money still runs Washington, not the support of the people. Signing petitions and calling your congressman doesn't mean a damn thing to them when the MPAA is throwing 94 million dollars at them. If we want this **** to end we need to stop supporting the companies that are driving these acts
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115084-New-Google-Chrome-Extension-Reveals-SOPA-Supporters
Nice tool for identifying who the rats responsible for this are so you can stop giving them money accordingly.
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
Gheb, I'm just curious, what do you think of my Snake? You seem to have the most knowledge about the Japanese around here, especially Snake. Also, do they know of me? If so, what do they think?
I don't know if they know you for sure but I assume they know who you are and how good you are. I think your Snake is very good - if it's not straight up the best out there then at worst you're tied with some other Snake player [right now that would probably be Kuroobi but you're better imo]. One thing that used to bother me about your play was how much you'd spotdodge or roll onto the opponent as an approach but from what I've seen in the Apex videos you've toned down both things noticeably.
More match-up experience against top level ICs, DDDs and Pikachu players is probably something you'd need to push your performances to another level although consistent top 8 at nationals is already a clear sign of improvement. If you get these 3 match-ups down I don't see what could keep you from winning a really big one.
Have you played any of the japanese MKs at Apex? They seem to use a lot less Tornado in certain match-ups and they're used the a completely different style of Snake players. Japanese Snake players are fairly expert at countering Tornado by PSing the first hit consistently and then roll into a favorable position [aka to the center of the stage]. This is something I'm trying to learn and I advise every Snake player to sit down and learn it as well.
More match-up experience against top level ICs, DDDs and Pikachu players is probably something you'd need to push your performances to another level although consistent top 8 at nationals is already a clear sign of improvement. If you get these 3 match-ups down I don't see what could keep you from winning a really big one.
Have you played any of the japanese MKs at Apex? They seem to use a lot less Tornado in certain match-ups and they're used the a completely different style of Snake players. Japanese Snake players are fairly expert at countering Tornado by PSing the first hit consistently and then roll into a favorable position [aka to the center of the stage]. This is something I'm trying to learn and I advise every Snake player to sit down and learn it as well.
DiskaSM
Smash Apprentice
What about Ally? :oI think your Snake is very good - if it's not straight up the best out there then at worst you're tied with some other Snake player [right now that would probably be Kuroobi but you're better imo].
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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1) I must say, we had a good thing going here... for about a day. Oh, well.
2) Also, Ally is AllyKnight now. Underneath that metal exterior there might be a solid soldier in there, but I doubt it.
3) Throwing out another request for people to give me requests on stuff to test out. I've got another couple of days of free time before it'll all be taken away.
4) Snake's Ftilt is extremely stupid, but I was reminded of it recently. Snake can air release -> walk -> ftilt 2 Squirtle and Ganon with it being guaranteed. Have to be dead frame perfect, but that range is stupid.
5) What would be your ideal place to live in? I mean this as in a geographical location rather than what you might furnish in a house or an apartment. For me, I'd like the location to change a lot. I get bored with the same old thing. I suppose a landlocked area would be best for those temperature extremes. Also, it would have to be pretty populated, but not over bearing... and a variety of scenery. Are there any locations like that in the more central states like Nevada to Indiana? Travel the world to find out I guess.
2) Also, Ally is AllyKnight now. Underneath that metal exterior there might be a solid soldier in there, but I doubt it.
3) Throwing out another request for people to give me requests on stuff to test out. I've got another couple of days of free time before it'll all be taken away.
4) Snake's Ftilt is extremely stupid, but I was reminded of it recently. Snake can air release -> walk -> ftilt 2 Squirtle and Ganon with it being guaranteed. Have to be dead frame perfect, but that range is stupid.
5) What would be your ideal place to live in? I mean this as in a geographical location rather than what you might furnish in a house or an apartment. For me, I'd like the location to change a lot. I get bored with the same old thing. I suppose a landlocked area would be best for those temperature extremes. Also, it would have to be pretty populated, but not over bearing... and a variety of scenery. Are there any locations like that in the more central states like Nevada to Indiana? Travel the world to find out I guess.
DiskaSM
Smash Apprentice
Did you see his matches vs Zero? He still has a decent Snake, though imo not technically as sound as it was.
MJG
Smash Hero
Decent is an understatement.
DiskaSM
Smash Apprentice
False
Smash Lord
imo Razer is the best Snake as of now. Ally comes right after, then Fatal.
I'm catching up Snakes.
I'm catching up Snakes.
imo kuroobi has the best nade game. he's most assuredly more creative and has better timing than anyone else.
and ally... i don't think his snake is very good. he's just a very good player himself. his fundamentals are amazing.
and ally... i don't think his snake is very good. he's just a very good player himself. his fundamentals are amazing.
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
Hmm, thank you. I appreciate the input. Yeah, whenever major tournaments come around, I try to become extra weary of those habits of spot dodging and rolling. Still needs some work though. I can agree with your statement about Kuroobi. I assume Shu is their best Snake. For me, it's hard to compare because of the drastic difference in play styles and metagames. I'd really like to see him play in person though. He has a text book snake....but he executes it probably the best, though he still has some flaws from what I've seen.I don't know if they know you for sure but I assume they know who you are and how good you are. I think your Snake is very good - if it's not straight up the best out there then at worst you're tied with some other Snake player [right now that would probably be Kuroobi but you're better imo]. One thing that used to bother me about your play was how much you'd spotdodge or roll onto the opponent as an approach but from what I've seen in the Apex videos you've toned down both things noticeably.
More match-up experience against top level ICs, DDDs and Pikachu players is probably something you'd need to push your performances to another level although consistent top 8 at nationals is already a clear sign of improvement. If you get these 3 match-ups down I don't see what could keep you from winning a really big one.
Have you played any of the japanese MKs at Apex? They seem to use a lot less Tornado in certain match-ups and they're used the a completely different style of Snake players. Japanese Snake players are fairly expert at countering Tornado by PSing the first hit consistently and then roll into a favorable position [aka to the center of the stage]. This is something I'm trying to learn and I advise every Snake player to sit down and learn it as well.
I feel a bit more comfortable with ICs, but I still need to play more to confirm I have it completely down. Could always use more D3 experience as it used to be my bane. I changed my style vs him which is why I was able to beat At0msk at Pound 5 but that was a year ago now. Fully agree about Pikachu. I have little to no experience. I plan on working really hard in that match up though to prepare for my rematch. Imo I should of gotten top 5 or better at Apex. I lost to Ally in quarters game 3, but we both agree that I choked. Shows I got more work to do.
Unfortunately, I didn't play a single Japanese player at Apex. I never found the time really or attempted to find and play them. I really wanted to play them though. I wanted to see how Snake would fair against them, especially their MKs. That is a good way to approach tornado. Instead of going for a punishment with possible risk, return to the center of the stage. Certainly shows the difference in our styles...I'll probably be using it. Depends on the situation.
Fixed. Bro I def think snake doesn't win that MU but I don't have the wins or credibility to call that mu. I'm workin on it though
Havok belongs up there too imo. 3rd or 4th best Snake in the USA atm.
1.) I think the Snake players from Japan generally have a good grenade game even though not all of them camp as hard as Shu does. I think what makes Kuroobi so good is that he seems to realize that Snake "camping" doesn't mean to straight up spam grenades or even use them all that much but more to keep himself in a position where he just doesn't get killed. He uses the "200%" tag and if you watch his sets vs Otori, El or Kakera you'll understand why.
2.) Yeah, I have to agree. His main forte seems to be his ability to intuitively cover the right option at the right time, not to cover a lot of options at once like M2K in his best days does for example.
The thing with Shu is, I've considered him the best Snake for quite a long time [late 2009 - late 2010] but right now I'm not sure what to think of him anymore. He always had an extraordinary grenade camping game and defensive approach to match-ups in general. That strategy generally worked in his favor against the likes of MK or Diddy, whom he still does well against. But whenever somebody like Marth or ROB appears in his bracket he's a bit in trouble because he seems to be unable to break out of his camping game. He is very flexible within his defense and the options he chooses but I've hardly seen him play beyond that from like ... 2011 onward. I think there are match-up where Snake is straight up better off camping less and going more aggro and I think those match-ups will hold Shu back from being the #1 until he starts a more aggressive approach to them. Right now, you could say that he's the best Snake in Japan but at best he's tied with Kuroobi who just has the better results.
False
Smash Lord
I've studied Shu and I don't find him to be too amazing. Gheb is right; he camps hard and outlives his opponents in time to score the kill.
I prefer us style snakes where we play offensively when its needed.
I have some very interesting stuff Ill write up on in the ICs and Wario match up that I don't see Snakes apply. I tested some risky and new stuff against Hunger and Swordgard in R2 pools at Apex which thankfully turned out to be a huge reward getting me into bracket.
Grenade>strip>pick up >jump>z drop>double jump nair is extremely good against Wario. The nair acts as both a wall and an interceptor in case Wario tries to poke or jump over usually grounded Snakes. The nade is picked up when you nair and if yhey somehoe hit you it leads to a trade. When you land you can throw the nade or shield. Its extremely useful. I racked on at least a good 60% on Hunger our first game using that wall. The nair would hit him, then the next time he tried to cross me up and Id shield and the nade would blow up, hitting him. Mixing this up with pivot grabs is awfully amazing.
Against icies camping on one side of the stage like one would do to d3 isn't effective. I will write more on this later.
I prefer us style snakes where we play offensively when its needed.
I have some very interesting stuff Ill write up on in the ICs and Wario match up that I don't see Snakes apply. I tested some risky and new stuff against Hunger and Swordgard in R2 pools at Apex which thankfully turned out to be a huge reward getting me into bracket.
Grenade>strip>pick up >jump>z drop>double jump nair is extremely good against Wario. The nair acts as both a wall and an interceptor in case Wario tries to poke or jump over usually grounded Snakes. The nade is picked up when you nair and if yhey somehoe hit you it leads to a trade. When you land you can throw the nade or shield. Its extremely useful. I racked on at least a good 60% on Hunger our first game using that wall. The nair would hit him, then the next time he tried to cross me up and Id shield and the nade would blow up, hitting him. Mixing this up with pivot grabs is awfully amazing.
Against icies camping on one side of the stage like one would do to d3 isn't effective. I will write more on this later.
Yeah, I always use cooked grenade -> drop -> nair against Wario [leaving the grenade on the groud so I could land and it would explode into my shield] because it gives him little room to approach Snake via the air and the grenade covers the ground. Yours seems like a more techical way of doing this but I'm not sure what the pros and cons are compared to how I'm doing it. Either way, I used to dislike the Wario match-up but once I've start using nair / bair as anti-aerials and covered it with a cooked grenade he had like no options to get in. I don't think Wario is a difficult match-up for Snake at all anymore. It's at least +1 for us imho.
Snake/Wario is even as far as I'm aware.
Wario may have a bit of trouble getting in but once does he racks a ton of damage, maybe even a gimp before you can establish stage control again.
And that's a good idea False. I'll have to try that next time I face Wario. Well actually I already do that except I just pick up the nade while nairing/bairing from the ground if I think he's about to approach from the air. I never considered z dropping it in that situation and then double jumping but I can now see how it would be useful.
It is definetly a good idea to drop a nade slightly behind you before approaching Wario. It could get you out of a combo.
Wario may have a bit of trouble getting in but once does he racks a ton of damage, maybe even a gimp before you can establish stage control again.
And that's a good idea False. I'll have to try that next time I face Wario. Well actually I already do that except I just pick up the nade while nairing/bairing from the ground if I think he's about to approach from the air. I never considered z dropping it in that situation and then double jumping but I can now see how it would be useful.
It is definetly a good idea to drop a nade slightly behind you before approaching Wario. It could get you out of a combo.
Okuser
Smash Ace
Does MVD come on these boards? MVD I play doubles with a pikachu in my state, do you have any tips/ doubles knowledge to share about pika/snake. Thanks.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Does C4 sticky pikachu sticky to someone else from a quick attack? If so, I need to find a pika to pair up with.
UltimateRazer
Smash Champion
@Gheb - Yeah, I havn't seen Shu recently doing well. It's been all Kuroobi lately who looks solid, but he looks like he still has work to do.
Doing that against Wario is a smart option, but I wouldn't do it every time. If you do so and the Wario is smart to learn, he just won't punish and you get a stagnant game. I usually do the wall nair, but I fast fall diagonally back to buffer something in order to catch them. I usually lob grenades first though so they are avoiding both in that sense. I sometimes do the Z drop nade tactic, but if I see no results, move on. Then again, I havn't played Warios in a long time.
Doing that against Wario is a smart option, but I wouldn't do it every time. If you do so and the Wario is smart to learn, he just won't punish and you get a stagnant game. I usually do the wall nair, but I fast fall diagonally back to buffer something in order to catch them. I usually lob grenades first though so they are avoiding both in that sense. I sometimes do the Z drop nade tactic, but if I see no results, move on. Then again, I havn't played Warios in a long time.
DiskaSM
Smash Apprentice
This thread is interesting to watch.
Funny how I hear more from Razer online than offline. But then I'm not the most active offline of the people here. lol
Funny how I hear more from Razer online than offline. But then I'm not the most active offline of the people here. lol
False
Smash Lord
Mixing it up is crucial, yeah.
Can anyone tell me what to do against ROB? ...I'm having problems with him.
Can anyone tell me what to do against ROB? ...I'm having problems with him.
DiskaSM
Smash Apprentice
ROB is evenish, kinda our advantage imo. I used to have trouble with the mu too.
First off I recommend not camping too much. Nades are NOT the best in this MU though there are some uses for them (cause his laser spam blows up nades in your face). Camping is kinda evenish, though I think ROB has the advantage. You may want to slowly approach. Your best thing vs ROB is to grab and tech chase - his rolls are kinda short, and his getup attack isn't too hard to punish either. Watch out for his ftilt and and fair... he has good range with those, and beware of the gyro and laser. Those shouldn't hit you too often if you're watching him.
ROB is really good at punishing your recovery. Be careful, and try to recover high if you can as much as possible. Also, you can try double jump nairs and full hop bairs now and then to block his aerial approaches. ROB cannot airdodge while doing up b either. Take advantage of that now and then.
ROB usually likes to kill with nair, bair and fsmash. Occasionally, usmash (though it's tricky to land), fully charged laser when you're recovering, and fully charged gyro near the sides of the stage will kill you as well. Usmash is his most powerful killing move too, so watch your landing.
ROBs like to use spotdodge -> dsmash, and some of them will getup from your dthrow and do a dsmash right away. Shield it all, and then grab. It has a lot of hits. Also beware ROB's grab. If he grabs you, hold up, cause his fthrow and bthrow are really fast and if you DI wrong it can put you in a bad spot, or kill you. The other throws are kinda slow so you can just react if he does one of them. I think ROB's shield is kinda small too, so abuse.
He dies a bit over 100% reliably from c4/uair/utilt. I've heard some people really recommend a lot of c4 in this MU too.
TL;DR Vs ROB, be ready to approach, tech chase him a lot, and don't use a lot of nades.
If other Snakes want to add input, go ahead. I think most of this stuff is correct but I'm sure there are players who know more about this MU than I do.
Ralph Cecil
Smash Champion
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For R.O.B. tech chasing is beast, & if he puts you off stage try to keep from letting him take your jump. Being offstage against R.O.B. with no jumps is awful. T_T Also a neat little thing I figured out against him is that if you shield his d-smash you can hit him with d-tilt oos, or whatever else I guess is faster and has enough range to it him.
EDIT: Also something else that I saw on the R.O.B. boards is that you can pick the gyro up if you are uphill, & it is downhill from you. Another thing to watch out for is that his gyro hits you in the direction that he is facing, so that leads to some mean glide to combos and stage tricks.
EDIT: Also something else that I saw on the R.O.B. boards is that you can pick the gyro up if you are uphill, & it is downhill from you. Another thing to watch out for is that his gyro hits you in the direction that he is facing, so that leads to some mean glide to combos and stage tricks.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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I'm always amazed how walking backwards ends up working out rather well.
DiskaSM
Smash Apprentice
Anyone have a good deal of experience fighting ZSS? I struggle a LOT in that mu.
I know that we have the edge on the ground, when we're very close with jab/grab/ftilt. And that I seem to get ***** every time I am in the air, and that she dies early. Otherwise I can use a lot of advice with this MU.
I know that we have the edge on the ground, when we're very close with jab/grab/ftilt. And that I seem to get ***** every time I am in the air, and that she dies early. Otherwise I can use a lot of advice with this MU.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Is Nappy really dead?!
DiskaSM
Smash Apprentice
Yes, sadly.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Oh my ****in' god, no way.
What the **** happened?!
What the **** happened?!
DiskaSM
Smash Apprentice
I don't know as many details as some people do, but a lot of stuff can be found in the comments on this blog: http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=128667
i'm not an expert, but some things I have observed...
- her jab is quick, but the third hit can be powershielded. she will normally try and mix it up with a jab cancel into something else (that won't be frame safe).
- her dash attack doesn't have enough knockback at low percents, and you can normally hit her after she hits you anyway.
- she works best at mid range. we win at close and long range. camp from afar, and fight in close. avoid midrange at all costs.
- her grab is trash. this means she has a generally poor oos game. pressure with that ftilt.
- if you're getting juggled, sdi and try to get down. keep your jump where possible. you're gonna take hits here, deal with it, and try to neutralize the situation in the best way possible.
- if on the ledge, watch for dsmash. ledge dropping is dangerous.
- sdi utilt and it won't lead to anything.
and that's all i have to say.
Ken Neth
Smash Champion
So I just got 3rd at a tournament with all the best players in state, but I ended up losing to a DDD and a ROB. Those were my two least favorite match-ups before I stopped playing for two years, and I can now say I still hate them just as much as I did back then. Have there been any breakthroughs on those matchups in the past two years?