R.I.P. Kjell Anders "Nappy" Peterson.

[UltimateRazer]

I was toying with snake in training mode trying to find something new....all I found was that a c4 sticky can only be passed on 2 seconds after its placed or moved onto someone else...

I suck T__T

 

[SuSa]

.... I already knew that.

It also stays on for 13.25 seconds until it falls off. This timer resets everytime its passed along and it still blows up at 26.5 seconds.

 

[Underload]

Where do people (SuSa) find all this pointless nonsensical jibber-jabber >>;

(very british)

 

[UltimateRazer]

I told you I suck

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

I beg to differ. We can abuse that platform 10x more then you can. And the stage is small enough to make a difference.

We can't use the platform at all but the stage is still very neutral to us. If we play smart, we won't fall for any of your platform tricks. that platform isn't a big deal.

Battlefield on the other hand...

 

[SuSa]

It's not even if you play smart... we are simply able to abuse the platform whether or not you like it... especially with the new techs found...

EDIT:
@underload
I do like 90% of the testing for the Snake boards... I know almost everything

 

[napZzz]

if you say that diddy has the advantage anywhere I'll kill you people, its literally like a falco clone matchup. He does gay **** with projectiles and its hard to hit him

you guys used the logic that since falco cant kill you and **** it doesn't matter or w/e, and diddy has some of the worst killing power in the game. I bet a good snake will live at least 170% plus vs. any diddy

 

[SuSa]

Unlike Falco, Diddy has a far more reliable way of racking up damage and setting up gimps besides a chaingrab....

If you were watching the HOBO 17 livestream, Razer was having some issues with Diddy.....also something that Diddy has that Falco doesn't is banana>fsmash/dsmash...........

FD is Diddy's best stage and it's a lot harder to avoid or mess with his banana game there...

 

[napZzz]

watching one snake struggle doesn't represent the entire matchup, player skill is always somethign to take into account

the chain grab is just as reliable if not even more so, and yeah snake can blow himself up avoid it (which is smarter)b ut thats just 50% at the start of every stock gone

I wont try to bring up the argument on things like perfect spacing, but at higher percents if you play with your shield correctly and dont close in on them while holding a banana the diddy is left with like....**** for options other than grabbing you at the worst and thats not all that threatening

are you saying lasers aren't a reliable form of racking up damage? They are far harder to avoid than bananas while if you are hit by one nanners can lead to damage and **** I guess. Lasers are always there ****ing with you pretty much and making it that much more difficult. At least you can use bananas against diddy. Who cares when you can take so much damage and then after a few ftilts or shield grabs maybe a nade or two finish it off? Its no different than any other snake matchup and FD doesn't make it any better or worse

 

[SuSa]

Falco:
Chaingrab --> 50%
Can setup for spike
Lasers --> 3% if fresh, 1% if stale~
predictable recovery
Lasers stop on shield

Diddy Kong:
Constant BCC (Banana Choke Chaingrab) using pummels with a banana --> infinity
Banana > followup (2-5% from banana + attack, can be done at any %)
[at lower %'s attacks link together (DA > Bair/fair/uair/utilt/usmash, etc.]
DBL (Double Banana Lock) across stage --> 3-5% per banana hit, can get about 6? in across FD --> Can be done at any %
Glide toss > Fsmash/Dsmash (reliable KO move at any %) --> Can be done at any %
Better mixup for recovery.
Better grab game overall (easier to get you off stage at good angles)
BANANAS CAN GO THROUGH SHIELD TO TRIP YOU


Diddy overall has far superior options compared to Falco. A good Diddy won't let you use the bananas as much as you think.

 

[etecoon]

pikachu is now one of snake's worser matchups...

falco is a stupidly insane matchup vs snake that it all varies on player by player

I don't see it, pika's CG is one of the easier ones to avoid IMO, snake outcamps and outspaces pikachu, out damages/KO's him aside from CG's and locks that only really hit you if you make a mistake...getting victimized by some ******** chain grab is nothing new for snake, I don't think that alone is enough, you need spacing/camping advantages on him that only a few characters like MK and Olimar have, and even then a lot of characters that have those advantages on snake are horribly outproduced for damage/KO power, destroyed by dthrow, or are themselves victimized by other tricks. pika may have a slight advantage on snake, but I can't put him in the same league as oli or MK...yet anyway, maybe I need a pika to kick my *** since he's so underused I guess

From my experience, Marth, Falco, and Pikachu all beat Snakeeeeeeee!

Snake beats Falco, avoiding his CG and camping isn't even hard you just duck and be stupidly patient. Then once you can't be CG > spiked you outdamage falco, outspace falco, and you shouldn't die until 180% OR HIGHER really. Snake/Marth is about even IMO, Marth WILL beat you if you DI badly, just like Wario, you need to DI everything upward well or else you will get set up to get spiked within like 5 seconds. DI up and cypher immediately, never get parallel or lower with the stage, even if you retreat for the blast zone you'd be surprised how far he can chase you off and kill you...If you avoid that then you have the standard "can't kill me until forever unless I do something dumb" advantage(marth can set up a lot of traps where you think you can punish him but can't and walk into a kill move, so knowing the character is part of it...). Marth can really hurt your landing options with fast falled uairs and pivot grabs, you need to mix up your landing well, I think I've found that nikita dropping is something I get better use of in this matchup than others, it prevents a lot of marth's option covering in this situation where he may have to just trade hits with you and not be allowed to continue the situation. I also find marth to be one of the harder characters to tech chase, not that easy to pressure him into doing something immediately. Definitely a hard matchup, I feel less comfortable with it than MK tbh, but I think that's mostly a personal thing....


edit: I agree that diddy is harder than falco, although half the battle is knowing what to do with banana's, it's why I think I should start playing diddy as one of my top 5 characters but I'm so lazy... <_<

 

[SuSa]

Snake owns Falco in the face if you know the matchup.

For Pikachu, blow yourself up to avoid the 0-105% (42% is farrrr better then 105%) and know the matchup and you should be easily beating him. I found this out vs Jmex's Pikachu (he's not a Pika main, but was a Pika secondary) I went even the first 2 stocks, blew myself up 3rd stock and just owned his face off.

Marth is stupid if they are good....and you don't know the matchup XD like me.... lmao

 

[UltimateRazer]

I was struggling...but also consider that Gnes is a top diddy and we know each other so well .

Its 55:54 snake since diddy can't kill.

 

[SuSa]

55:54? Holy ****! It's a 109% matchup!

xD

Diddy can still setup for KO's and I can't remember if you went FD =p I think you banned it....

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

Diddy haz godly spikes too. And I know how to get around almost every recovery option Snake has cuz im used to the matchup. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then won't we SuSa?`

 

[etecoon]

Snake owns Falco in the face if you know the matchup.

For Pikachu, blow yourself up to avoid the 0-105% (42% is farrrr better then 105%) and know the matchup and you should be easily beating him. I found this out vs Jmex's Pikachu (he's not a Pika main, but was a Pika secondary) I went even the first 2 stocks, blew myself up 3rd stock and just owned his face off.

Marth is stupid if they are good....and you don't know the matchup XD like me.... lmao

yes, and doesn't pika's CG require a pummel at like 14% or something? pika has some really stupid footstool stuff that could be an issue in the future but I haven't seen it make a big impact yet...

I'm slowly getting better at the marth matchup but I still have issues, like idk what to do to stop him from just staying still during tech chase, up tilt stales up tilt(and his stupid fair spacing makes me use this move more than I want anyway)...dtilt and C4 stick are too slow, first hit ftilt and jab miss, marth is light so he can DI out of dair...one of the reasons I'm more comfortable with MK because if he tries it you can just jab > ftilt him.

 

[SuSa]

Diddy haz godly spikes too. And I know how to get around almost every recovery option Snake has cuz im used to the matchup. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then won't we SuSa?`

Your spike isn't guarenteed ever and therefore can usually be avoided. I've only been spiked 2 times by Dao (25th at Genesis, 2nd best placing Diddy there)

Also if people figured out how to get around Snake, he wouldn't be #2. Most everyone thinks they counter us or something.... lol

EDIT:
Velox, you seriously revolutionized Snake on platformed stages..... RC is so epic with grenade leaving...

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

I understand why you guys are god broken but I am always going to think that Diddy has the advantage. Snake ***** counter-picks though. Diddy has just as more potential on FD and SV. I guess there is no reason to argue about a 55:45 matchup anyways. Dao isn't that great btw.

 

[SuSa]

2nd best placing Diddy says otherwise. He's also the hardest Diddy I've faced in SoCal. Nannerz is NorCal and I haven't faced him yet.

And yeah.. 55:45 or 50:50, not much of a difference. XD

Diddy DOES have more potential on FD, not denying that.

I'm just denying SV. :x

 

[etecoon]

And yeah.. 55:45 or 50:50, not much of a difference. XD

or 45:55 and 55:45, look at falco!

I think we should just claim we have an absurd advantage like 80:20 on random characters just to throw people off.

did you know that snake now makes falco UNVIABLE!??

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

MU number are insignificent.

So long as Snake has the potential to take on any character and anyone, he doesn't need a secondary. But just as you can take them on, you can equally **** up and lose.

No one is perfect and doubtfully will ever play a match perfectly time and time again. Accept it and move on. On a side note, how does stage striking work?

 

[Tennet]

I need to relearn snake or have someone train me or something...

 

[Darkshadow7827]

Hmm, just throwing this out there, so we don't have a 100% guarantee buffered jab after downthrow on anyone? So we can only use dthrow > jab on certain characters only if they don't input a get up attack or a roll. The list of "dthrow > jab" is too big for me to memorize. For some reason I thought there were 2 characters where it was guaranteed no matter what.

 

[SuSa]

Darkshadow, it's not that large.

Here's a large list (away-towards attacks) of 11 that I memorized:
Fox, Falco, Wolf, Dedede, Wario, G&W, Ivysaur, Link, Toon Link, Sheik, and surprisingly I can't remember the last person. :x

@Velox
3 neutrals usually (sometimes up to 5)

1 person has a 'temp ban' (strike) on stage x
you strike stage y
you play on stage z

EG:
I striked FD against Falco
He strikes BF
We play on SV

 

[IxxI]

Does anyone know what happened to JesiahTEG?

 

[SuSa]

I think he just mods the PokeBoards or quit his modship. I have no idea TBH.

 

[Underload]

SuSa, could you explain the instant dropdown tech thingy with a little bit more clarity? >>;

 

[SuSa]

The 2nd or 3rd tech I showed?

3rd: Press down, then shield. It's about as strict as the timing on Lucas's Zap Jump. Just... down+Shield rather then side+B+jump

2nd: While airborne and holding a grenade (hold B), hold Shield and a certain height above the platform, mash the analog stick down (Velox has a thread on this)

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Apart from YI that makes the 4th neutral, what typically might take the place of a 5th neutral?

Also, anyone want to play wifi?

 

[SuSa]

Lylat.... lol

and my wii isn't hooked up atm, at a friends.

 

[Underload]

It's PS1 in Colorado.

Great stage, always gets striked first.

Edit: Yea, I'm up for some wifi. Add me, I'll add you.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Lylat.... lol

and my wii isn't hooked up atm, at a friends.

Lylat... Wow. Give Snake a good stage.

Just want to know if I got this right. Ftilt is more of a punishing method than anything right? Sort of like Marth's Dancing Blades. Not really used to poke people with. Grabbing and Jab is more designed for that.

 

[SuSa]

er.... ya... Jab/Ftilt is a punish move (depending on spacing+opponents char).... ftilt doesn't really poke..... grabbing isn't poking, but that's what most people use on shields. XD

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I got you added underload.

er.... ya... Jab/Ftilt is a punish move (depending on spacing+opponents char).... ftilt doesn't really poke..... grabbing isn't poking, but that's what most people use on shields. XD

Poking as in throwing out attacks to hit people with. It seems to me that Ftilt is too easily punished when shielded, so it's best to throw out attacks like jab and grab that aren't as easily punished. Ftilt is great to use OoS or from a dodge. Or if it simply outspaces the opponent.

 

[Tennet]

Why the hell did i ever want to CP snake with falco...

 

[SuSa]

The best Snake counter is Snake.

Because the actual Snake main will probably switch to his secondary.

/like me and Jon T

 

[Tennet]

I'm planning Marth for that MU

 

[etecoon]

The best Snake counter is Snake.

Because the actual Snake main will probably switch to his secondary.

/like me and Jon T

I've lost almost every snake ditto I've ever played, though <_< I HAVE A HIGHER SUCCESS RATE VS OLIMAR WTF

 

[SuSa]

You are supposed to rely on the fact they won't play the Snake ditto. :x

Also topic, people reply pl0x.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=243809

 

[Tennet]

Snake has a 60:60 on Snake. I've heard 100:0 too.