Quick question why do we think mk is close to even...I personally think...

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Quick question why do we think mk is close to even...I personally think it our worst or becoming our worst matchup, the more i watch it the better the options that are chosen by the mk the more hopeless it looks, i can see snake mains learning to beat d3 much easier that learning to beat mk.

At the moment i think the only reason we are winning is because mks don't know the matchup. As i look at more results and continue to see our top snakes decline to lower and lower spots i can't help but think what are we doing wrong? we're suppose to be second to mk but i doesn't feel like that at all...

Discuss Please

Razer, Ally, Candy, Fatal, (i hope you guys name search) lol

 

[etecoon]

I think MK is one of snake's 3-4 worst MU's but not the worst, I don't think it's even in any case and I haven't considered snake to be the second best character in a long time, he's really not all that amazing. I could see him being 5th best tbh after falco, diddy, and ice climbers but that's really another discussion

6:4 MK IMO

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

wow, i love you that's almost exactly my list but it looks more like, mk, wario, ICS, FALCO, Snake, Diddy

 

[RATED]

Falco over Snake? do you guys think? I would like to read something that could at least convince me about it. ( serious post, I hate to troll)

Snake vs MK is hard if the MK knows the matchup AKA plays really campy while baiting ftilt in order to nado you.

 

[-Ran]

I've pretty much given up on Snake vs Mk. Good MK players know how to get you off the stage, and realize what moves they have that go through your aerials. Once they have that on lock down, they have no fear and can gimp you almost every time.

Mk dittos here I come.

 

[napZzz]

this matchup is becoming dumber and dumber......

we dont have any solid counterpicks on him aside from halberd which they can just ban...and FD isn't exactly great for the matchup, if anything, I dont think its any better than any other neutral

the better they get at the matchup the harder it is snake only has so much compared to all of mk's options..

I've never even thought snake was this good, I think he should be around where marth is or a tad lower, I feel as if he's gonna end up how game and watch did, its just taking longer for people to catch on

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I don't think he's THAT linear but I kind of agree with you Nappy. But I don't see him falling below 5th tbh. I'm surprised it took people this long to start doubting whether Snake was 2nd position material. But MK vs Snake just seems dumb. Honestly I'd rather go Falco or Wario for this one. I feel like Snake is not the "MK counter" anymore lol

40-60 MK =/

 

[napZzz]

Snake only stayed where he has been so long because of ally

 

[-Ran]

I don't even want to talk about the counter picking ability has on Snake.

Delfino
Brinstar
Norfair
Green Greens [Shuttle Loop kills so **** early.]
Rainbow Cruise

Even still, the first half of Halberd allows for them to shark without much of a worry. They can, if they aren't impulsive just camp the ship aspect of the ship away.

Recently I found that playing on Castle Siege is another map that's poor in the match up. The initial stage platforms are very favorable to Meta Knight being able to apply pressure, and the second section allows Meta knight to effectively utilize Tornado, avoid Grenades, refresh moves, and air camp with the aid of the tip top platforms without much of a problem. Furthermore, the play at the edge of the level tends to result in quick kills for MK. The third section has angles that throw off grenade game, and function as a tilting FD, and if the Mk feels that he is getting camped, he can simply avoid conflict until the transition.

 

[Attila_]

i've been saying its 60:40 for at least a year now. smash in japan convinced me that snake really has to be too perfect in order to win. and the decline of ally's placings recently are further evidence of this fact.

that being said, we're still losing to warios, marths, d3s and olis. these mus might be worse than the mk one.

 

[etecoon]

that goes along with my other thought that ALL of snake's matchups are gradually getting worse as people gain experience in abusing his limitations. I could see those characters and a few others being as hard as D3 in the future because DDD is similar to snake, a slow character with limited options that punishes very hard when he does manage to do something and lives to high %. I think both of them will or have hit the ceiling long before other characters will

 

[Underload]

There's no way it's even.

I think Snake vs. Metaknight is feasibly close because of human error, and nothing else.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Congrats, you guys just convinced me to drop Snake and pick up MK.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

That means you can join the other half of the "Snake" community, Yume

 

[etecoon]

no one actually drops snake rofl

I've tried so many times

he's still my third character even though I have no intention of using him in tournament again ever

 

[Attila_]

id say that counts as dropping him.

i didnt use him for 3 months at one point; just enough to get over my frustrations with him and start again. that being said, im happy with using him at this point. just had to try not to focus on his limitations, but rather, the endless potential of his nade game. in fact, its pretty much all i use now days.

 

[Underload]

just enough to get over my frustrations with him and start again.

That's what I'm doing right now. I've been using Snake since Brawl's release, and honestly, he teaches you jack **** about the very basics of the game.

But seriously, just because Snake vs. Metaknight isn't a winning matchup doesn't mean it isn't a fun matchup...

 

[Judo777]

MK is the most under rated character in the game. Every MU against MK is worse than it seems.

And I think MK is probably ur second worst MU maybe ur wrost (idk D3 and olimar are in that list also.) Im not that great of a snake but im a pretty good one and I get my butt handed to me by good D3's and good MK's. Dont get me wrong we can totally pull off a win if we can manage to stay on stage and rely on our tilts and grenades but once we get offstage its just a matter of MK guessing right and a few situations dont even require the MK to guess so its rough.

Also i still think snake is number 2 but not by as much as people used to think. However i dont think IC's are above snake tbh they just have too many holes in their game. Wario and Falco i can see being in their diddy is great but i honestly think snake is better than them.

On a smaller note i believe that we will see IC's and diddys (especially) getting worse as people start better learning the MU.

Idk thats my opinion im just a sheik main. Tho i second snake (unless you count zelda) and have the best one in my state (kentucky who cares right?)

 

[etecoon]

diddy being culture shock and just not having people know the MU was TWO THOUSAND EIGHT, really tired of people still saying it lmao ._.

 

[Judo777]

diddy being culture shock and just not having people know the MU was TWO THOUSAND EIGHT, really tired of people still saying it lmao ._.

Except there are still a whole freaking lot of people that dont know the MU............

M2K doesn't know the MU. Neither do most of the people in the MW that dont regularly play like count and AZ.

 

[AllyKnight]

MKs been playing smarter against Snakes, it is way too easy to grab him, this MU has gotten way harder I say its 60-40 now at HIGH level, like Shmot said, Snake has to be almost perfect to go even with him.

 

[etecoon]

Except there are still a whole freaking lot of people that dont know the MU............

M2K doesn't know the MU. Neither do most of the people in the MW that dont regularly play like count and AZ.

there's also tons of people that don't know the snake MU

really MK is the only character that almost everyone decent knows how to fight

 

[Teh Future]

MKs been playing smarter against Snakes, it is way too easy to grab him, this MU has gotten way harder I say its 60-40 now at HIGH level, like Shmot said, Snake has to be almost perfect to go even with him.

your like one of three snakes at "HIGH" level, and the only one that has posted in this topic.

these guys just like to **** and moan about mediocre players they can't beat. That's not the matchup, thats you cats being outplayed.

 

[napZzz]

there's also tons of people that don't know the snake MU

EVERYONE knows the snake matchup

your like one of three snakes at "HIGH" level, and the only one that has posted in this topic.

these guys just like to **** and moan about mediocre players they can't beat. That's not the matchup, thats you cats being outplayed.

This guy's ic's lost to a minnesota ganondorf in tourney

invalid opinion is invalid

trollbait y

 

[Geou]

EVERYONE knows the snake matchup


This guy's ic's lost to a minnesota ganondorf in tourney

invalid opinion is invalid

trollbait y

Rude.

Where are your manners?

 

[Calzorz]

im too tired to put a long post but i enjoy vsing mk its not even 55:45 mk mybe even push for 60:40 depends but id rather vs mk than marth imo marth is a ***** for snake at times (im prety good at the mu with all the experiance iv had but all snake mainers i know hate marth too)

Edit: Recentish tourny match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k67NDXdxdNM

snake can get mk good and mk can get snake good , depends how the game goes once snakes in the air we all know hes a victim its the same with alot of his mu's but i do belive he isnt 2nd best in game mybe like 3rd 4th

 

[etecoon]

EVERYONE knows the snake matchup

they really, really don't. if everyone knew the snake MU, he wouldn't be considered a top 3 character anymore. many people still find that idea itself absurd lmao

 

[Toneh]

everyone go watch youtube so we can all be Ally juniors

 

[RATED]

radix: I hope you are trolling seriously...


everyone else:

STOP *****ing about how "Snake sucks" and that ****

play the friggin game, get better( including myself in that one), learn the game and try to get money.

 

[Judo777]

they really, really don't. if everyone knew the snake MU, he wouldn't be considered a top 3 character anymore. many people still find that idea itself absurd lmao

That's fine i was referring to diddy. And no i really dont think snake will ever drop below 3. TBH falco is really the only char i can see going above him IMO. Snake has too much crap going for him and his weight class alone forces ur opponent to outplay u.

 

[napZzz]

radix: I hope you are trolling seriously...


everyone else:

STOP *****ing about how "Snake sucks" and that ****

play the friggin game, get better( including myself in that one), learn the game and try to get money.

noones ever complaining, we're just talking about matchups

looking at whats bad for our character is whats going to help us get better

 

[Attila_]

i don't think snake sucks, but i definitely think he's overrated. if ally never picked him up, he would never have been ranked two. and now, despite the fact that ally doesn't beat m2k or win majors anymore, he's still ranked second. i would love an explanation, personally.

he's got nades, but outside that, his metagame seems pretty shallow. i'm not *****ing, cause i still think he's **** and defs top 5, but seriously, one mistake, hell making a slight zonal error can just get punished way too hard. and that my friends, is fact.

 

[etecoon]

I like how every time I diss on snake for being free someone accuses me of whining when I don't even play snake anymore. meta knight/marth/diddy perspective, yo

snake is a mediocre character

 

[iFudge]

snake is only good on wifi :O

 

[Judo777]

i don't think snake sucks, but i definitely think he's overrated. if ally never picked him up, he would never have been ranked two. and now, despite the fact that ally doesn't beat m2k or win majors anymore, he's still ranked second. i would love an explanation, personally.

he's got nades, but outside that, his metagame seems pretty shallow. i'm not *****ing, cause i still think he's **** and defs top 5, but seriously, one mistake, hell making a slight zonal error can just get punished way too hard. and that my friends, is fact.

Wait what!? no snake doesnt ever get punished way too hard. Snake gets punished but he doesnt get punished way too hard. Snake is so freaking heavy that he doesnt get punished hard cause hard punishes dont kill him half of the tiime.

Also tilts! Hes got nades but hes also got tilts. Hes got the second best move in the game that deals 21% and is a guessing game that snake always has the advantage in. Snake gets to put stuff on the stage and walk around making sure u watch out for grenades and mines and c4 and a massive ftilt thats like 1/4 the size of FD.

Snake might drop a spot or 2 but he wont drop anymore than that IMO or he shouldnt. Snake realistically has to connect with 6 moves on most of the cast to kill them. The rest oif the cast has to connect about 15-25 moves on snake to kill him. Thats a pretty great ratio if u ask me. Plus snake has alot of solid setups and traps with his projectiles and throws. Snake is a great character people who say he isnt are just crazy (unless u have that annoying attitude of "no characters are good they all suck")

 

[etecoon]

weight doesn't matter as much when you're taking 50%+ when other characters might be taking 10-20%, snake gets ***** by traps hard. the assumption that other characters have to connect with him "15-25" times while he only needs "6" doesn't take into account how easy it is to follow up on neutral situation hits vs snake compared to other characters, once you hit him you have an excellent chance of hitting him another few times.

snake is a GOOD character, but not great. meta knight is great, falco, diddy, and ice climbers might be great. snake is not.

 

[Judo777]

weight doesn't matter as much when you're taking 50%+ when other characters might be taking 10-20%, snake gets ***** by traps hard. the assumption that other characters have to connect with him "15-25" times while he only needs "6" doesn't take into account how easy it is to follow up on neutral situation hits vs snake compared to other characters, once you hit him you have an excellent chance of hitting him another few times.

snake is a GOOD character, but not great. meta knight is great, falco, diddy, and ice climbers might be great. snake is not.

but snake has tons of tools to make u trade with him in follow up situations. Which is a battle ur always gonna lose. and on the off chance you take 50% for ur mistake thats still not far from the same ratio of life snake takes from you when he deals 20%. Also once snake gets above 100% those follow up situations become more scarce because every hit sends him too far away. Snake has a decent recovery when u combine the tools snake has to make u trade or have to watch spacing or read him to where it really isn't an even trade. Not to mention snakes moves are quite a bit safer than alot of other character. ftilt is safe when spaced right and farly safe when misspaced.

 

[etecoon]

this is what I mean when I say that no one knows the snake MU XD

 

[Underload]

When you factor in both weight & damage output, no character comes close to Snake and his inherent properties. The follow-up argument is stupid as hell, because it's all shattered theory craft. The truth is, if you're put in a bad situation as Snake, you're ****ing Snake and you're probably not going to die, so use SDI and DI to put yourself in the best possible position. Everything after that is easy.

Snake is #2 in the game, and the only character that's close to him right now is Falco.

 

[etecoon]

diddy is a much better character than snake.

shattered theorycraft? do you watch any video at all? you constantly see snake's getting trapped for longer attack strings than is typical other top characters. don't see how you can accuse me of that when there's a post right above mine with so many blatantly false statements, ftilt is safe? snake doesn't get trapped at high %? LMAO