Public Requests Thread

[Yikarur]

an automatic calulator would be nice.
like you chose a character + move and you get instantly every data of that move.
dream *__*

 

[Kinzer]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294258





I believe we are being called out

Err...Damn.

Needs more public-relations! I'm tryin'!

Besides the obvious, are there any hubs/threads for that purpose alone? I kind of like Pierce's idea of "chatting with the BBR" jazz, but obviously with less dead. I wouldn't mind managing that myself; as I've been taking it upon myself to learn more and more about the game in general. Raise awareness, make the smash labs' objective(s) clear and what have you.

... Though maybe I need to find out what is the purpose of the smash lab myself. I think of it as a resource to ask individual members of this backroom for data on specific things; as should be expected(?), and gather data of the game in whole (2nd priority to knowing what is known first.), and yeah? Maybe make two subcategories for the second objective, like have people look into character-specific stuff, then maybe stage-specific stuff, and then physics abuse? Just some food for thought, maybe you can even go into MU specific... or that may just be a character specific trait that shared with another character for that time. Whatever.

As for that post in particular... eh~...

How long did it take Melee to get figured out? I wasn't around when/if that happened before I joined, and if it got complete when I was a part of the community, I honestly must say I don't keep up with Melee as much as I do Brawl but would at least prove my point that a complete breakdown of the game takes a long time.

I almost, have Sonic figured out. Lucario is next on my priority list. Once I get that done (within a year hopefully, freaking Lucario and his Aura variables. I'll have Sonic done by the end of this season I bet you), I'll look into some other characters that are in need of a dedicated researcher/have yet to get their data finished.

Such a shame I find it, that not every character (board) is gifted which a dedicated researcher. It'd be so nice if others had the same chances.



Is there a list that has all the members of the Smash Lab ATM? I'd like to know, seeing as how it only seems to be a handful of people that are active. I know some people are busy, but where is everybody? Seriously, if I had to name people, it'd be Yika, rPSI, iJeans, Kaylo!, Cape, Phi, Luxor, (Lux), and A2Z (et cetera). I'm relatively new around here; so maybe I'm missing out on some peeps, but I was hoping there'd be more people doing (more) stuff. Maybe people are just so busy with their projects they don't have time to post what little findings they get on the way? Please tell me it's just a case of people not posting in the Smash Lab and are doing character-specific research, as is the case with me, Phil, and (maybe) A2Z.

A2Z, if you see this, just what are you doing anyway? No offense, I'm just curious.

Uhm, back to the topic at hand.

The "(Complete, quote-end quote) Frame-Data directory" thread is hideously outdated and not even managed by a Researcher. Would it be any bit possible that ownership can be transferred/a new thread can be made? I can do it myself, if nobody else is willing to volunteer. It cannot be that hard to simply keep an up-to-date list of all the frame-data compendiums and do the clean-up/merging later. I am more worried about getting the data before I am about making it nice and tidy. Of course I might need help from other people just in case I overlook anything/ new things get posted, but seriously. Copypasta FTW.

At least that's my plan anyway. I want to eventually see that frame-data be added as part of a/the character guide(s) (as is the case with Sonic's (regardless of it still being a WiP ATM)) once it's all said and done.

Perhaps have a quick find for people looking for that data specifically. A universal Ctrl + F = "[Uairframe]" tag or something. People seem so hellbent on data though and forget other factors too, but I suppose I'll address that another time...

How about it fellas. I hope it wasn't a mistake that I got added here.

 

[KayLo!]

Pika and Zelda are covered..... pretty much all of their data is done (including shield advantage) with a few minor exceptions.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

an automatic calulator would be nice.
like you chose a character + move and you get instantly every data of that move.
dream *__*

o***yes

Err...Damn.

Needs more public-relations! I'm tryin'!

Besides the obvious, are there any hubs/threads for that purpose alone? I kind of like Pierce's idea of "chatting with the BBR" jazz, but obviously with less dead. I wouldn't mind managing that myself; as I've been taking it upon myself to learn more and more about the game in general. Raise awareness, make the smash labs' objective(s) clear and what have you.

Yeah, I had actually given thought to the whole "Chatting with the Smash Lab thing, but then I thought it'd make us look pretty cheap, just ripping off the BBR like that. However, if it did go down, I'd also be up for being a "chatter". Public relation have always been an interest of mine, which led to me taking some after school classes on public speaking, presentation, etc. Also, we have a sort of public relations thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286663

Like I said, kind of.

... Though maybe I need to find out what is the purpose of the smash lab myself. I think of it as a resource to ask individual members of this backroom for data on specific things; as should be expected(?), and gather data of the game in whole (2nd priority to knowing what is known first.), and yeah? Maybe make two subcategories for the second objective, like have people look into character-specific stuff, then maybe stage-specific stuff, and then physics abuse? Just some food for thought, maybe you can even go into MU specific... or that may just be a character specific trait that shared with another character for that time. Whatever.

I've actually grown bored of frames, and so I've been trying to look into the space aspect of Brawl, though it's pretty tough seeing as space isn't easily quantifiable in Smash. So, I've also spent some time trying to wrap my head around some of Veril's older threads on disjoints, hurtbox data, and the like. I had an AIM convo with him about that a little before he went on another one of his hiatuses.

As for that post in particular... eh~...

How long did it take Melee to get figured out? I wasn't around when/if that happened before I joined, and if it got complete when I was a part of the community, I honestly must say I don't keep up with Melee as much as I do Brawl but would at least prove my point that a complete breakdown of the game takes a long time.

M2K was actually a driving force behind all of that Melee research, I know that much, but I don't know when that happened, and for how long it went on. Though I'm fairly certain Brawl didn't have a single person spearheading research like Melee did, which led to the creation off the Smash Lab.

I almost, have Sonic figured out. Lucario is next on my priority list. Once I get that done (within a year hopefully, freaking Lucario and his Aura variables. I'll have Sonic done by the end of this season I bet you), I'll look into some other characters that are in need of a dedicated researcher/have yet to get their data finished.

I thought Phil had Lucario covered? Or have I missed something?

Such a shame I find it, that not every character (board) is gifted which a dedicated researcher. It'd be so nice if others had the same chances.

Freaking this. I was wondering if maybe there could be a system of assigning Researchers to character boards to answer their questions, and seek out suitable members from those boards and make them the Researchers. I think it'd be pretty neat and would help to further integrate the Smash Lab with the rest of the Brawl boards, and keep us in touch with the community.

Is there a list that has all the members of the Smash Lab ATM? I'd like to know, seeing as how it only seems to be a handful of people that are active. I know some people are busy, but where is everybody? Seriously, if I had to name people, it'd be Yika, rPSI, iJeans, Kaylo!, Cape, Phi, Luxor, (Lux), and A2Z (et cetera). I'm relatively new around here; so maybe I'm missing out on some peeps, but I was hoping there'd be more people doing (more) stuff. Maybe people are just so busy with their projects they don't have time to post what little findings they get on the way? Please tell me it's just a case of people not posting in the Smash Lab and are doing character-specific research, as is the case with me, Phil, and (maybe) A2Z.

A2Z, if you see this, just what are you doing anyway? No offense, I'm just curious.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ah0d-wQSDzcUdEVBVmZ4YlZxX2FDWW9FeE52dzhqYWc&hl=en#gid=0
Up-to-Date Afaik. Red means purged


Uhm, back to the topic at hand.

The "(Complete, quote-end quote) Frame-Data directory" thread is hideously outdated and not even managed by a Researcher. Would it be any bit possible that ownership can be transferred/a new thread can be made? I can do it myself, if nobody else is willing to volunteer. It cannot be that hard to simply keep an up-to-date list of all the frame-data compendiums and do the clean-up/merging later. I am more worried about getting the data before I am about making it nice and tidy. Of course I might need help from other people just in case I overlook anything/ new things get posted, but seriously. Copypasta FTW.

At least that's my plan anyway. I want to eventually see that frame-data be added as part of a/the character guide(s) (as is the case with Sonic's (regardless of it still being a WiP ATM)) once it's all said and done.

Perhaps have a quick find for people looking for that data specifically. A universal Ctrl + F = "[Uairframe]" tag or something. People seem so hellbent on data though and forget other factors too, but I suppose I'll address that another time...

How about it fellas. I hope it wasn't a mistake that I got added here.



Well, what this Lord Chair fellow is asking for is like an interactive program hosted on SWF. Copypasting stuff together into a thread would be easy enough, but what this guy wants would require coding and embedding. I'm sure the administration would give it the OK so it could actually be hosted, but the one thing that could present a problem would be writing the program. Or at least imo. I'm no good at that.

Responses in cyan.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

There was this thing I was thinking about while I was on vacation.

If you do Vine Whip and land on a surface before the animation is finished, you don't suffer any landing lag. This is common knowledge. However, there are two things I've been wondering as a result--

When you cancel Vine Whip, do you literally have zero landing lag? If I'm not mistaken, characters normally incur a few frames of "I can't do anything" when they land without doing any attack (which is why airdodging into the ground isn't super-safe).

When knockback/hitstun is ending, can you buffer a B move? Obviously, this is only important for weak attacks, since we can't Up-B the ledge like Link can Z-Air, and momentum canceling with aerials is much more useful than any of Ivysaur's B moves after being knocked away.

If the answer to both of these questions is yes, then, when Dedede is doing his D-Throw chaingrab, can we buffer Vine Whip, land on the ground, and immediately do whatever? That would allow us to play a mix-up game, rather than get chaingrabbed around.

Hmm, I never tried it. I guess I always assumed Ivyaur suffered lag, seeing as every top PT I've ever played has never done anything immediately afterwards.

I mean, lag after a canceled Vine Whip, mind you. I know I've never done it because Vine Whip never occurred to me as a viable option in the situation, probably due to appearing to already be on the ground, but with the Dedede chaingrab, the game may as well consider you to be in the air during the hitstun, because when it finishes, the person thrown does the "I'm landing from the air" animation, which, in some cases, gives Dedede just enough time to grab them again.

Also, I believe the chaingrab timing against Ivysaur is fairly strict (by Dedede chaingrab standards). At the very least, Dedede can't guarantee a chaingrab on Ivysaur on Yoshi's Island due to the slant pushing you just far enough to start a Bullet Seed before he can regrab you.

I don't think so, but it'd be cool if someone tested for him.

 

[DeLux]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=281869

At a free tournament held by my university today (lol) I was playing against a Kirby player with Metaknight, he was on the edge on FD, and I tornadoed at him from offstage. He took percentage without appearing to take any hits, he did not move at all. I think he was invincible but I'm not sure.

Has anyone else ever seen this?

The thread is where the request is.

The video is the TLDR of the thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X5yuyOByxk


My best guess would be that it has something to do with the nado hit boxes. If I've been told correctly, the first one is the only one with hit stun, so perhaps they hit the player with the first hit while invincible, and then proceeded to connect with the hitstunless hitboxes. But then the video obviously counters that.

Outside of that, I'm stumped. We need to do some research on the nado

 

[Kinzer]

My best guess would be that it has something to do with the nado hit boxes. If I've been told correctly, the first one is the only one with hit stun, so perhaps they hit the player with the first hit while invincible, and then proceeded to connect with the hitstunless hitboxes. But then the video obviously counters that.

Outside of that, I'm stumped. We need to do some research on the nado

Unless I'm reading this wrong, that doesn't even make sense. Clearly when somebody gets sucked into a Tornado even after the first initial hitbox, they still suffer the attack as one would expect.

And Hell, everything else is news to me.

 

[DeLux]

Ever since the PSC thread came out, there is all kinds of conflicting info floating around. If someone more experienced in testing could look at it that would be great. Mach Tornado is confusing ><

 

[rPSIvysaur]

(Lux), don't confuse hitstun with hitlag. Nado doesn't have hitlag, not histun. You wouldn't be stuck into nado if it had not histun, ever. This is sort of baffling. The fact that MK has superarmor Kirby's nado likely shows that either MK is too gay, or that Kirby's nado has histunless hitboxes below it.

 

[Toomai]

MK's Mach Tornado loop hitboxes:

Hitbox 0: 1% damage, angle of 90, 50/100 fixed knockback, size 5, position [0,-2,0], 1.0x SDI, 1.0x freeze frames, 0% trip chance, flags 2B410602 (Spin/Slash, hits grounded only), rehit rate 0, special flags 204FFFC3
Hitbox 1: 1% damage, angle of 90, 90/100 fixed knockback, size 5, position [0,-2,0], 1.0x SDI, 1.0x freeze frames, 0% trip chance, flags 2B420602 (Spin/Slash, hits aerial only), rehit rate 0, special flags 204FFFC3
Hitbox 2: 1% damage, angle of 30, 90/45 fixed knockback, size 5, position [-9,7,0], 1.0x SDI, 1.0x freeze frames, 0% trip chance, flags 2B430602 (Spin/Slash), rehit rate 0, special flags 204FFFC3
Hitbox 3: 1% damage, angle of 150, 90/45 fixed knockback, size 5, position [9,7,0], 1.0x SDI, 1.0x freeze frames, 0% trip chance, flags 2B430602 (Spin/Slash), rehit rate 0, special flags 204FFFC3

Kirby's Mach Tornado loop hitboxes:

Hitbox 0: 1% damage, angle of 90, 50/100 fixed knockback, size 5, position [0,-2,0], 1.0x SDI, 1.0x freeze frames, 0% trip chance, flags 2B410602 (Spin/Slash, hits grounded only), rehit rate 0, special flags 204FFFC3
Hitbox 1: 1% damage, angle of 90, 90/100 fixed knockback, size 5, position [0,-2,0], 1.0x SDI, 1.0x freeze frames, 0% trip chance, flags 2B420602 (Spin/Slash, hits aerial only), rehit rate 0, special flags A04FFFC3
Hitbox 2: 1% damage, angle of 40, 80/45 fixed knockback, size 4.5, position [-8,6,0], 1.0x SDI, 1.0x freeze frames, 0% trip chance, flags 2B430602 (Spin/Slash), rehit rate 0, special flags 204FFFC3
Hitbox 3: 1% damage, angle of 140, 80/45 fixed knockback, size 4.5, position [8,6,0], 1.0x SDI, 1.0x freeze frames, 0% trip chance, flags 2B430602 (Spin/Slash), rehit rate 0, special flags 204FFFC3

Differences have been bolded in Kirby's data. What appears to be the critical difference has been painted red in both data sets.

tl;dr: Kirbys doin it rong.

 

[Yikarur]

Ever since the PSC thread came out, there is all kinds of conflicting info floating around. If someone more experienced in testing could look at it that would be great. Mach Tornado is confusing ><

well I stated a lot of facts about PSC but there are always people who forceful say that "Fact X" is wrong without being able to prove it.

 

[phi1ny3]

I'm not sure if this has been looked at much, but is there an ongoing project that lists/confirms/debunks Single Banana locks? All I've seen are some videos of characters, and I'm sure there are some people that would love something that says as to whether their character can lock (until Trela showed me, I had no idea Lucario could banana lock either o_O)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Someone should compile a list for foxtrot distances and frames 'til the pivot is available.

I can definitely see this being useful for Pokémon Trainer.

ten characters

 

[rPSIvysaur]

EDIT: Since there are researchers in here, question. Is there such a thing as an "instant" grab break? I've seen people get grabbed at high %s and break out right away (or almost, like, breaking out right after they get hit by Wolf's first pummel), why/how does that happen?

Anyone want to help me here?

 

[Yikarur]

well there is stuff like that if the characters get seperated somehow and on PS1 when the stage retransforms but I don't think there is such a think besides very fast mashing.

 

[DeLux]

On certain ramps you auto grabbreak as well. At least if grabbed by ICs. For example, try grabbing at the corners of the beach transformation on Delfino. Or the ramp on distant planet.

 

[Yikarur]

Yep, thats universal o:

 

[Kinzer]

I think I've seen a couple of instances with Yoshi's command grab. Care to explain that to me?

 

[Yikarur]

if Yoshi phantom hits with neutralB the opponent gets a break out animation while Yoshi does not. (this is like +29 frame advantage lol)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

@_@ That's insane... (like the trick, not you)

 

[DeLux]

WTF. That's freaking broken.

Time to go main Yoshi.

 

[Kinzer]

... Phantom hits... in mah Barlw?!

 

[Yikarur]

well it's impossible to do this by purpose. You have to do egg lay a lot in hope to get it somewhen

 

[rPSIvysaur]

They don't do damage in Brawl. They just have a little graphic effect. (in most cases)

 

[DeLux]

Public Request:

Smashlab Skype Chat

 

[Yikarur]

I agree tencharsetc

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Someone not me set it up. I'm terrible at Skype, lol.
Alternatively, I would love an AIM group. (I know how to set those up)

 

[Yikarur]

no pls no AIM Group, thats Anti-european no one uses AIM here :/
Skype is universal :3

 

[Sieguest]

I'll set it up after I finish eating. That is if no one does it before that time. >.<

Edit: If you get a contact request from some random person, then it's probably me lol trying to add people now>.<

 

[Toomai]

Wait, you're talking about the Egg Lay grab fail that deals 1% damage?

If so, there is a grab escape "hitbox" in the move that deals 1% damage (similar to the one the deals 6% damage to people that escape DK's Cargo). Because of the properties of said "hitbox" the target does a grab release animation, but since Yoshi isn't in a grabbing state, he doesn't.

Bowser and Ganondorf's dash grabs have one of these odd grab escape "hitbox"es as well, both deaing 3% damage. Maybe phantom hitting with them would cause the same result? Good luck trying to test it though.

 

[T-block]

I will probably bring this up in Skype once I get back from work.

Hey,

So basically, what my research will gather is how soon the victim will be able to act after being hit by Dedede's d-throw.

If the d-throw is inputted on frame 0, then the damage comes on frame 21, and Dedede is first able to act on frame 46 (I think... I input dash on frame 44 in order to buffer a dash). I think Mario is able to act on frame 64 or something.

That's the kind of data I'll be gathering... is it what you're looking for? Is there anything else you'd like me to test, as long as it doesn't require too much more effort?

I figured thats what you'd be looking for. I also need the following moves for frame data if you can:

Jab1's hitbox
Jet Hammer (uncharged)

I also need the find out the ending lag and total active hitboxes on all of his moves but I wont ask you to do that unless you actually want to. The guide that Buuman made only lists the first active hitbox on each move. That's it I need so much more if Im going to be able to make a comprehensive guide. But again don't feel like you have to. I appreciate the work you are doing now. Its highly beneficial.

Looks like he's aiming to make some sort of guide. Think we can toss him the Dedede frame data gathered?

 

[KayLo!]

Why wouldn't you? I didn't think we were actually holding back data from people..... that'd be silly.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

is there a thread, picture, or something that will show me the approximate area that each character can be footstooled?

1010101010

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Why wouldn't he just ask here.

I don't know about the footstool thing btw. Would it be universal? Some characters seem to be easier to footstool than others but this might just have to do with the height of the character.

I also thought 1010101010 was some secret binary code, but it's just you bypassing the 10 character thing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Why wouldn't he just ask here.

I didn't think about it.

Anyway, could someone do me a favor and get hitbubbles/information for aerial Ivysaur Neutral-B and Charizard Glide Attack?

EDIT: Specifically...

http://opensa.dantarion.com/autoframe/FitPokeFushigisou.php#special

This doesn't suggest that aerial Bullet Seed has "hits aerial characters only" properties, but, in-game, the pop-up hit appears to be exactly like that. I want to know if I'm doing something wrong, or what. Also, aerial Bullet Seed appears to have larger hitbubbles, but, by how much?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Bump for clarification added to my last post.

 

[Toomai]

http://opensa.dantarion.com/autoframe/FitPokeFushigisou.php#special

Problem with that resource is that it doesn't show half the data - it doesn't have any of the flags, for example (which is where the grounded/aerial state is). Here's what you wanted:

Ivysaur Bullet Seed:

SpecialNStart

Set hurtbox to intangible
After 3 frames
Set hurtbox to vulnerable
Hitbox 0: 4% damage (+1 on shield), angle of 100, 105/100 fixed knockback, attached to bone 0 (size 6 at [0,4,0]), Typeless/Grass, only hits grounded targets, cannot clang
Hitbox 1: 4% damage (+1 on shield), angle of 114, 105/100 fixed knockback, attached to bone 0 (size 6 at [0,4,-10]), Typeless/Grass, only hits grounded targets, cannot clang
Hitbox 2: 4% damage (+1 on shield), angle of 120, 105/100 fixed knockback, attached to bone 0 (size 6 at [0,4,10]), Typeless/Grass, only hits grounded targets, cannot clang
Wait 2 frames
Delete all hitboxes

SpecialAirNStart

Set hurtbox to intangible
After 3 frames
Set hurtbox to vulnerable
Hitbox 0: 4% damage (+1 on shield), angle of 100, 100/100 fixed knockback, attached to bone 0 (size 8 at [0,4,0]), Typeless/Grass, only hits grounded targets, cannot clang
Hitbox 1: 4% damage (+1 on shield), angle of 120, 100/100 fixed knockback, attached to bone 0 (size 8 at [0,4,-11]), Typeless/Grass, only hits grounded targets, cannot clang
Hitbox 2: 4% damage (+1 on shield), angle of 120, 100/100 fixed knockback, attached to bone 0 (size 8 at [0,4,11]), Typeless/Grass, only hits grounded targets, cannot clang
Wait 2 frames
Delete all hitboxes

Charizard glide attack:

GlideAttack

After 4 frames
Hitbox 0: 12% damage, angle of 45, 65/85 knockback, attached to bone 0 (size 9.2 at [0,8,12]), Bite/Slash
Hitbox 1: 12% damage, angle of 45, 65/85 knockback, attached to bone 0 (size 9.2 at [0,8,4]), Body/Slash
After 10 frames
Delete all hitboxes

Didn't include some info but there you go.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Thank you.

Also, is there a formula for how much hitstun an opponent incurs from a move? For moves with set hitstun, has anyone compiled a list?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Can someone tell me the frame data behind Wario's heavy item tosses (don't know what to call it; the way he'd throw his bike or a crate, barrel, etc.)? I just need the frame where the item hitbox becomes active and how long each whole animation lasts.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm getting home from work soon, I'll use this as an excuse to try the newer (and sexier) frame advance code.

Though I might nap first.