PSA 0.2 Beta discussion topic.

[Revven]

361 is like 40 degrees to the game, it's not REALLY 361 degrees.

BKB and KBG are reversed. So BKB is actually the KBG of the move and the KBG after that is actually BKB.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

You answered my question, but at the same time, you didnt lol. I meant like HOW did he do it, not why he could do it. I know he used the sword animations and suff. I got it to work on a character, but I cant see anything. He just swings air and it has a hit box. I wanna make it look like a sword.

well he gave it a fire GRAPHIC effect, and a FIRE HIT Effect, which is why you can see it. It's a sword made of fire. If you gave it aura HIT EFFECT, AND GRAPHIC effect, it would be an aura sword. :D

 

[Adapt]

How different are the angles? As well as this one other setting, forgot what it was... lol

angles are identical at 169... stupid sakurai direction...
Size and flags are identical as well

 

[Big O]

I was looking at the data through the SA program and it seems that it is a little buggy. Some attacks like DK's Fair and jab2 shows up some weird data. For both of the attacks it says at the bottom in text when I highlight them "The timing system on this one is unpredictable, it is advised that the 000201000 version is used." The oddity being that it shows the Fair having AC frames and the jab2 having 5 frames of startup and ending at frame 34. I double checked with the frame advance code and jab 2 has a 6 frame startup and ends on frame 35. Practically everything else I saw matched with what I had on my guide. Is there any explanation for this or what the 0002010000 version is?

EDIT: ^^^Fair does less damage though and damage is a part of the knockback growth.

 

[SuSa]

6 frames until it hits?

If so, thats saying wait 5 frames, it hits on frame 6 in the code.
Your testing implies the same, it hits on frame 6.

EDIT: (after rereading your post)
It could be a part of the hitbox that hits on frame 5 that is relatively hard to hit with? Sort of like Pit's 2(3?) frame up tilt... it's a very small hitbox, and otherwise leads you to believe that it's first hit is on frame 8.

 

[Adapt]

361 is like 40 degrees to the game, it's not REALLY 361 degrees.

BKB and KBG are reversed. So BKB is actually the KBG of the move and the KBG after that is actually BKB.

I had kinda assumed that 361 was a placeholder for another angle... Can't imagine why though...

As for the reversal... that doesn't matter in my case... the stronger move has less of both values than the weaker move

 

[droughboi]

well he gave it a fire GRAPHIC effect, and a FIRE HIT Effect, which is why you can see it. It's a sword made of fire. If you gave it aura HIT EFFECT, AND GRAPHIC effect, it would be an aura sword. :D

Ok.. we're getting there, we're getting there. so... HOW did he give it the graphic effect?

this is so funny xD

btw anyone is welcome to give some input here. im not just asking him.

 

[Big O]

6 frames until it hits?

If so, thats saying wait 5 frames, it hits on frame 6 in the code.
Your testing implies the same, it hits on frame 6.

EDIT: (after rereading your post)
It could be a part of the hitbox that hits on frame 5 that is relatively hard to hit with?

Well it shows 300000 as the timing interval which implies a 5 frame startup (attack hits on frame 6). When I double checked with the frame advance code the attack hits starting on frame 7. I also double checked and verified that his Fair does not AC at all.

 

[SuSa]

Well it shows 300000 as the timing interval which implies a 5 frame startup (attack hits on frame 6). When I double checked with the frame advance code the attack hits starting on frame 7.

Read my edit. It could be an extremely small first hitbox or something?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Ok.. we're getting there, we're getting there. so... HOW did he give it the graphic effect?

this is so funny xD

btw anyone is welcome to give some input here. im not just asking him.

you add, then click on that Nop and click modify, then click change at the top right corner, change it to graphical effect, (or external graphical effect, I'm not sure) and then edit that to the proper effect. I think.

 

[Big O]

Well the tests I tried was using Marth's Utilt and DK's second jab at the same time right next to each other and just using it on him at point blank without him doing anything. The Utilt always hit DK unless I did the jab 1 frame earlier and Marth never got hit until frame 7 at point blank.

In case Adapt missed my earlier edit ZSS's Fair does less damage (11 vs 13) that her Bair and damage is part of the knockback growth formula. That probably accounts for the difference.

 

[Adapt]

Can someone make sure I am doing this right?

Using most powerful hitboxes calculating knockback at X damage before hit:

ZSS sub action 64: airattackB - Damage: D (13), base: 21, growth: 64

ZSS sub action 63: airattackF - Damage: B (11), base: 28, growth: 69

knockback = base + (X+damage)*growth

Bair: 21+(X+13)*64 = Yb
Fair: 28+(X+11)*69 = Yf

If you plot these... at any decent damage Yb is lower than Yf
but I know bair kills earlier, by 7% damage

EDIT: the crossover is at X = 13.2 where Fair gives a higher value according to these numbers

 

[hotdogturtle]

I've done some playing around with sound effects and I have 2 questions. I'm adding one of Meta Knight's quotes to his other moves. First, when I do a short move like his uair or dair, the sound ends early because the move finishes. How can I make it play the whole thing even after the move finishes? And secondly, it stops if I land during an aerial move. Can I make it continue playing even if I touch the ground?

 

[SuSa]

I'm pretty sure that's because the move ends.... as in the animation, so it cuts off the volume. "move ends, cut sound"

Your only option I believe would to be extending the amount of time it takes to finish the aerial in the air... which would give it a large amount of endlag.

/theorycraft based on the fact that (IIRC) only Falcon's up-B has an aerial sound and he's still in lag from the move afterwards...

 

[Big O]

Well this is what I saw in Doval's thread where he was asking a bunch of question's about stuff like this

"L = g*d*p*w + 30*b + A

L is launch speed seen on the end of game results screen, g is the growth of the move, d is the damage the move deals, p is the percent the target is at after the hit, w is the target's weight (or launch resistance, really), b is the base of the move, and A has something to do with a combination of the angle the move launches at and the character's fall speed acceleration (moves that launch downward have a negative A value).

The A value unfortunately has not been very carefully looked into. It's only applied to moves that send into the tumble, which creates a sort of "hole" in a graph of the launch speed of a move as it moves from a non-tumble percent to a tumble percent. You can find out the launch speed a move tumbles by dividing 1020 by the hitstun multiplier constant (in brawl+, this is .4865, whereas it was .40 in vbrawl). In vbrawl, the tumble line was drawn at 2550, but in brawl+, it is 2097. Most moves tend to have an A of around 100 against mario (when an attack is used against characters with greater fall speed acceleration the A value is larger, and against those with less fall speed acceleration it is smaller). Moves that send straight up or close to it (such as nesss's uthrow, luigi's upB, or jiggs' old rest) have around a 160 or so A value against mario. Admittedly, when I perform calculations to determine a move's launch speed at an arbitrary percent, I take a guess at about what the A value will be based on its angle, so while my calculations may be very close to correct most of the time, they are frequently off by a small amount due to insufficient data, and thus usually require a little fine-tuning after testing."

I also remember in that thread Leafgreen mentioned that the 30 should be 32.2 instead.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Wait, so KBG and BKB are actually reveresed in the project sa beta? Like, for all moves?


Well, the data, I mean.

 

[TheUltimateMario]

Is it me, or are computers with the edited movesets smarter/better?
Because i just got thrashed by a level 5 computer, but then again,
i had two Pheonix Mario's after me(i killed them both first, so
they came after me) and the other Fury Sonic was attacking
everyone, but thats beside the point, are computers smarter
than before with edited movesets, or is just me getting used
to my Sonic?

 

[droughboi]

you add, then click on that Nop and click modify, then click change at the top right corner, change it to graphical effect, (or external graphical effect, I'm not sure) and then edit that to the proper effect. I think.

lmao I'm trying all 80 bajillion graphic effects in the drop down, so far none are working.

Can anyone else look into how its done or tell me what I'm doing wrong?

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Is it me, or are computers with the edited movesets smarter/better?
Because i just got thrashed by a level 5 computer, but then again,
i had two Pheonix Mario's after me(i killed them both first, so
they came after me) and the other Fury Sonic was attacking
everyone, but thats beside the point, are computers smarter
than before with edited movesets, or is just me getting used
to my Sonic?

No, they are not.

 

[Adapt]

I don't know about the reversal actually... because ZSS's first 2 jab hits correctly display KBG as 0
(sub actions 48 and 49)

I am inclined to believe that these values are not reversed because of this.

@Big O
**** that is a messed up equation... do you have a link to the thread? Interesting how damage is factored in twice... (p includes d)
I guess I won't try and add this data in to the thread i linked a page or so back... too complicated to figure anything out from it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

So...some values ARE reversed, and some AREN't? Wow, that's gonna be a ***** to figure out then.

 

[Big O]

I don't know about the reversal actually... because ZSS's first 2 jab hits correctly display KBG as 0
(sub actions 48 and 49)

I am inclined to believe that these values are not reversed because of this.

@Big O
**** that is a messed up equation... do you have a link to the thread? Interesting how damage is factored in twice... (p includes d)
I guess I won't try and add this data in to the thread i linked a page or so back... too complicated to figure anything out from it.

It was in this thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241446.

I'm thinking most of the problems with the numbers are due to this program still being in beta. Does anyone know what the 0002010000 version means? All of the problematic data seemed to have that in the text box in the bottom along with a statement saying "the timing system in this one is unpredictable." It showed DK's Fair having what appears to be AC frames and it also showed his jab2 being off by one frame in startup and ending lag. Testing ingame with the frame advance code has proved otherwise on both moves. Both moves also had the same statement at the bottom when I highlighted the timing intervals. Fair is sub action 63 and jab2 is sub action 49.

 

[TheUltimateMario]

No, they are not.

Maybe its just the moveset i gave Sonic and the moveset
PW gave PMario.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Maybe its just the moveset i gave Sonic and the moveset
PW gave PMario.

IDK, if you say so.

 

[codfish92]

from what i've realized, the computers still act the way they normally would, but with the edited moveset.
example
PMario will still try use his side b to reflect projectiles and stop his falling. even though they don't(side b still stops horizontal movement, but not vertical like the cape), i think the computers still act the same way. the new moveset might just might be a better fit to their tendencies more than their old movesets.

 

[lavamage]

Anyone know the sub-action when a character gets hit by a foot stool? I want to replace the falling animation with that one

 

[Yingyay]

Whats the ID or flag value for trip or stun (as in sheild break stunned)?

Anyone? O_O

 

[droughboi]

Ok after many trials and errors, I finnaly figured out what you have to edit to make the swords visible. You go to your sub-actions, then GFX in the event list drop down menu.
add a new whatever thingy, modify it, change it to "Goto" and and click offset. the type is auto set as a pointer. For pw's pheonix mario, the address that makes the sword on his Ftilt embody fire is 00024EA0.

My question is: whats the address for other effects like darkness, and electric? I dont think its the same as the ones that have been previously discovered and used for hit effects.

 

[Yingyay]

Ok after many trials and errors, I finnaly figured out what you have to edit to make the swords visible. You go to your sub-actions, then GFX in the event list drop down menu.
add a new whatever thingy, modify it, change it to "Goto" and and click offset. the type is auto set as a pointer. For pw's pheonix mario, the address that makes the sword on his Ftilt embody fire is 00024EA0.

My question is: whats the address for other effects like darkness, and electric? I dont think its the same as the ones that have been previously discovered and used for hit effects.

My question about this is. is the fire effect mario/luigi specific?

If it is then we'd have to find all the character specific effects

If not then we could try to use the current effects we've discovered.

 

[droughboi]

My question about this is. is the fire effect mario/luigi specific?

If it is then we'd have to find all the character specific effects

If not then we could try to use the current effects we've discovered.

Stay tuned. ill test it on another character real quick and get you an answer.

Edit: nope, I tried it on a diffrent character and it didnt work. my game froze up when I tried to add the fire stuff. it worked just fine before. my sword had a hitbox and everything, it was just invisible.

 

[Yingyay]

Stay tuned. ill test it on another character real quick and get you an answer.

Thanx. I cant help test stuff out at the moment v_v

 

[Sushi21]

My question about this is. is the fire effect mario/luigi specific?

If it is then we'd have to find all the character specific effects

If not then we could try to use the current effects we've discovered.

It works for anyone. Well, it should anyway. I've put Bowser with Electricity.

Ok after many trials and errors, I finnaly figured out what you have to edit to make the swords visible. You go to your sub-actions, then GFX in the event list drop down menu.
add a new whatever thingy, modify it, change it to "Goto" and and click offset. the type is auto set as a pointer. For pw's pheonix mario, the address that makes the sword on his Ftilt embody fire is 00024EA0.

My question is: whats the address for other effects like darkness, and electric? I dont think its the same as the ones that have been previously discovered and used for hit effects.

That's great! If I can figure it out, this will help out a lot on my Jedi Bowser!
I think if you look back i this thread, you can find the Dark and Electricity values.

EDIT: I found some values for offensive collision.
Aura Effect
-39032C15

Electric Effect
39030283

 

[droughboi]

It works for anyone. Well, it should anyway. I've put Bowser with Electricity.



That's great! If I can figure it out, this will help out a lot on my Jedi Bowser!
I think if you look back i this thread, you can find the Dark and Electricity values.

I have the values for dark and electric. the problem is, you cant use the electricity effect for a graphic effect, it doesnt work or I did something wrong and couldnt get it to work.
heres an example of what I mean:

On Pheonix mario, the Value for a fire hit effect is 39830445. when you go to the GFX on his Ftilt and click "Goto", it uses a "Pointer" which is listed as 00024EA0 not a "Value". This seems to work only with mario and MAYBE luigi(havent checked). One looks like fire(00024EA0) and the other HITS like fire(39830445). get it now? unless you can get the Hit effect to change into a Graphic effect, you'll need two diffrent things: a Pointer and a Value.

Even then it doesnt stop there. on Pheonix mario's Fsmash, under GFX, "Goto" isnt used, instead "external graphic effect" is used, and a hell of a lot of em to boot.
So im not sure what attacks need to use the "Goto" thing or the "external graphic effect" thing. then after all that, you have to find the right value/pointer. and Idk wth a pointer is... I'm not too good at this quite yet.

 

[Sushi21]

how I make a graphic is I drop down GFX then add a new one. Then modify it to Graphic effect. The value for electric is 4.
Hope that answers it.

 

[droughboi]

how I make a graphic is I drop down GFX then add a new one. Then modify it to Graphic effect. The value for electric is 4.
Hope that answers it.

Hold up... so wait, just... changing the value to 4... can make electricity embody the shape of a sword? really thats it?!? this ish is so ****ed confusing.

 

[Sushi21]

I'm not sure about an object. I just used it for movements, but it should work for an object.
The graphic is for the item being used and the offensive collision is the effect done to the opponent.

 

[Yingyay]

When this gets settled please hook us up with a value lol electric blades would be win

 

[Kirk]

Quick/random question:

Has anyone played with the "Time Manipulation" values?

I'm trying to figure out what the two parameters control, but can't quite get it.

Anyone know?

 

[droughboi]

When this gets settled please hook us up with a value lol electric blades would be win

omg man im trying so hard to figure it out >_< I want it so bad!

 

[TheUltimateMario]

Quick/random question:

Has anyone played with the "Time Manipulation" values?

I'm trying to figure out what the two parameters control, but can't quite get it.

Anyone know?

You mean the timers? If you mean those, then i have,
it shortens the action to whatever time you set
it to, but the second one glitches it up usually and
the attack will do nothing.