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Proposal for a new counterpick System

swordgard

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
5,503
Location
Canada
Alright, so due to the creation of a new East Coast Canada Smash League, i took the initiative to modify the CP system a bit and got different critiscism about it, some positive and some negative, which is why id like to to ask the help of the community members with this.

New brawl counterpicking system :

The new system will leave the loser with 2 choices: either he counterpicks a non-neutral stage, or he counterpicks a neutral . In the first case, the procedure stays the same as usual, with the stage selection being done, winner then choses character, and finally the loser chooses his. In the event that the person who lost counterpicks a neutral stage, the winner will not get the chance to change character and the loser still will.


All the while, please consider that in the league you will actually be able to ban 1 neutral and 2 cp/neutral because we have a slightly bigger stage list.

The problem with the old counterpick system: Due to the fact that alot of stages have characters that can simply dominate them, it is very easy to choose a secondary to get an easy win on some stages while some other chars simply have no counterpicks of the sorts. Heres a small example, air camping with wario on RC, or luigi on Brinstar. Falco on Japes. Such are the types of matchups with very big advantages on some maps.

The advantage of the old system: You can always switch char and not have to worry much about being char cped as much.

The problem with this counterpick system: It makes it that some matchups can be cped vs you on 2nd match such as d3 on FD vs some chars, and those matchups are sometimes irritating and according to some people promote Gayness.

My argument agaisnt this: This system promotes a few things. 1, character counterpick becomes much more viable and actually increases character diversity. 2, you actually get more bans so you can ban FD if your scared of d3. If somehow d3 or any character CPs you on a neutral where you horribly fail, you can then CP him on a neutral where HE fails(d3 vs snake on BF >.< ) . This system not only stops any sort of overpowering CP stage from becoming a free win, but allows for strategic planning(if he still chooses a stage where its the only place he could have won, you can force him to stay that char and go on a neutral). And because of this, not only is cping more viable, but it also expands the skillset since you need to be ready for any character.

Please comment on this, and i cant find how to make a poll >,<
 

swordgard

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
5,503
Location
Canada
And you could simply beat him up on 3rd game by cping his ddd with pika. In the normal cp system, you cant know anyways if hed switch to d3 >.> he would AFTER you chose, so youd still be ****ed. And please remember you have 3 bans, so you can ban your worst stages.
 

Col. Stauffenberg

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
1,989
Location
San Diego <3
And you could simply beat him up on 3rd game by cping his ddd with pika. In the normal cp system, you cant know anyways if hed switch to d3 >.> he would AFTER you chose, so youd still be ****ed. And please remember you have 3 bans, so you can ban your worst stages.
The difference is that a DK main currently can still switch characters if they're afraid of being gayed after they win a round. With this system there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. (Banning stages doesn't do much to mitigate a matchup as bad as DK vs DDD) You're basically punished for winning with DK by giving your opponent an easy win in return. It makes maining him pretty impractical.

While I used DK as an example the same goes for any character with an extraordinarily bad matchup.
 

Dantarion

Smash Champion
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
2,492
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
swordguard,

For people who can be infinite'ed, this hurts them like crazy. If someone wins a match as Mario/Luigi/Samus/D3/DK/Bowser/Fox/Rob etc, they can be FORCED to play against D3/Pika/ZSS.

Not cool.
 

swordgard

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
5,503
Location
Canada
Alright, fine, i guess il just drop the system altogether, thanks for the input everyone ^.^
 

pure_awesome

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
1,229
Location
Montreal, Canada
It was a good idea, man.

But there's too much gay in Brawl for it to work well.


Now, on the other hand...
Winner picks char
Loser picks char
Loser bans two stages from the next match
Winner picks a stage


Just sayin' ;).
 

Poltergust

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
4,462
Location
Miami, Florida
NNID
Poltergust
3DS FC
3609-1547-9922
It was a good idea, man.

But there's too much gay in Brawl for it to work well.


Now, on the other hand...
Winner picks char
Loser picks char
Loser bans two stages from the next match
Winner picks a stage


Just sayin' ;).
Why would the winner pick the stage?
 

Meese

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
73
I think with a few modifications to striking or neutral vs. counter stage lists, this could be a good system.
 

|RK|

Smash Marketer
Moderator
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
4,033
Location
Maryland
In the case of MK, can't the loser just unstrike a stage??
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
People already counterpick starter stages too much since you can only learn starter stages and always counterpick on them and generally win on them and have an unbeatable stage strategy (you just lose on the opponent's counterpick and win on your own counterpick and the first match). Encouraging that MORE is ridiculous.
 

pure_awesome

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
1,229
Location
Montreal, Canada
Why would the winner pick the stage?
Because it helps to reduce the potentially overpowering advantage that the loser gets from counterpicking while still providing him with an advantage. If the loser picks both, you end up getting **** combinations like DDD on Green Greens, Falco on Jungle Japes, MK on Luigi's Mansion, etc.

In this system, essentially, the winner gets to say "Okay, we'll play DDD vers DK, but we're doing it on Rainbow Cruise/Delfino Plaza/Frigate Orpheon/etc."

The system also allows for certain stages, like Green Greens, Corneria, Jungle Japes, etc, to be more viable as CP stages.
 
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