Project M - Yoshi matches

[Kaysick]

http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/501889279

First of all, sorry for the blurry quality. We're trying to find a happy medium for the stream.

Yoshi Ditto's Kaysick vs @ 5-oNe
24:30 - 30:50

My Comments: Was kinda mad at first that I lost, but then again Yoshi ditto's are actually hard. You both know exactly what you can do to each other so, in my opinion, whoever gets the nair or combo first kinda wins. @ 5-oNe 's Yoshi is great. Wouldn't be surprised if he learned thing or two watching me throughout the month I've been playing at EXP Gaming.

Yoshi (Kaysick) vs Toon Link (EXP Tigerfist)
38:25 - 45:15

My Comments: For the past two Wavedash Wednesday tournaments, I've faced Tigerfist right off the bat. Both times I knocked him into Loser's. Oro said the wrong thing, saying I knocked him out of losers. I did get 7th place in the tourney though. For the matchup against Toon Link, you need to be really aggressive. I noticed that off my first life in Smashville and you need to read his grab. Get those down and I think it's an easy matchup. Final Destination is a map I always cross out in tourneys because Yoshi excels with platforms. Its even worse against characters with projectiles since they can space Yoshi out and he doesn't have too good of an approach against them.

Yoshi (Kaysick) vs Link ( @HarryTheChin )
3:17:35 - 3:22:15

My Comments: Ah yes, my most wanted match of the night. I wanted to win so bad that my stomach was queasy after. Everyone loses matches though. I have a lot of Link experience since there's 3-4 active Link players there. You mainly have to watch out for all 3 of his projectiles and make use of your armor. Do not get under him because his Dair will kill you. I always pop an egg to get easy damage and stop him from getting the easy % or kill. Link plays a lot better than Toon Link does in my opinion, so its a bit harder to go in pure offensive.

 

[5-oNe]

http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/501889279

First of all, sorry for the blurry quality. We're trying to find a happy medium for the stream.

Yoshi Ditto's Kaysick vs @ 5-oNe
24:30 - 30:50

My Comments: Was kinda mad at first that I lost, but then again Yoshi ditto's are actually hard. You both know exactly what you can do to each other so, in my opinion, whoever gets the nair or combo first kinda wins. @ 5-oNe 's Yoshi is great. Wouldn't be surprised if he learned thing or two watching me throughout the month I've been playing at EXP Gaming.

definitely have been picking up tips on your yoshi since your first time there at exp. like i said mine has been in the works for quite some time atleast since the beginning of the year so i dont want u to think i just picked him up.lol. and im pretty sure he will be my 3rd and final main i use along with pit and marth. but its crazy how much your yoshi has improved in such a little time.i plan to keep seeing you in top 10 from now on buddy!

 

[V3ctorMan]

Wooooooot go pm yoshis.<3 you all have my support..100%

 

[Deviljho]

Oooh! More Yoshi matches! Can't wait to see em! (Twitch is blocked on school computers ) BTW the egg roll tips you gave reeeeally helped! Thanks! I'll need to watch these matches to get more technology, as well as finding more on my own. Great Work!

 

[Whit]

I'm kinda new to these forums so I hope I'm not messing up or anything. I've got a few doubles matches from the DFW tournament a little while back if y'all are interested. My partner's name is bec and she's playing Lucario in all of these vids. This was actually my first time going to a tournament. I plan to go to more though. Enjoy!

Bec (Lucario) and Whit (Yoshi) vs Aliami (Jiggs, Ness) and Scotch (Roy)

Bec (Lucario) and Whit (Yoshi) vs ??? (Peach) and ??? (Sheik)

Bec (Lucario) and Whit (Yoshi) vs Lips (Ness, Toon Link) and Blank (Roy, Link)

Bec (Lucario) and Whit (Yoshi) vs Book (Ganon) and Hiya! (Charizard)

Dakpo (G&W, DDD) and Luck (Diddy) vs Bec (Lucario) and Whit (Yoshi)

 

[Kaysick]

@ Whit Hope you don't mind giving you some tips on Yoshi. He's my first main and I've been using him in tournies for a month now. Use your Dair more often, try not to use your Fair as a meteor as often, and use Dthrow more than the F/Sthrow & Uthrow. As you most likely know, Dair can easily rack up easy %'s. If you hit the sweet spot with the Dair at mid 40%'s and higher, they get knocked up in the air allowing you to combo more. I see you using the Fair meteor as an easy spike, but from the matches I watched you didn't get a hit. That's not a bad thing, I miss those as well. All I can really say is to use a more safe option like ledge guarding with a Nair or Dair on the ledge. You can actually use Dair to hit them downwards. Dthrow is a better option than the other throws in my opinion because you have a better transition into a combo than all the other throws. Dthrow>Dair or Dthrow>Fair, Dthrow>Nair.

 

[Whit]

@ Whit Hope you don't mind giving you some tips on Yoshi. He's my first main and I've been using him in tournies for a month now. Use your Dair more often, try not to use your Fair as a meteor as often, and use Dthrow more than the F/Sthrow & Uthrow. As you most likely know, Dair can easily rack up easy %'s. If you hit the sweet spot with the Dair at mid 40%'s and higher, they get knocked up in the air allowing you to combo more. I see you using the Fair meteor as an easy spike, but from the matches I watched you didn't get a hit. That's not a bad thing, I miss those as well. All I can really say is to use a more safe option like ledge guarding with a Nair or Dair on the ledge. You can actually use Dair to hit them downwards. Dthrow is a better option than the other throws in my opinion because you have a better transition into a combo than all the other throws. Dthrow>Dair or Dthrow>Fair, Dthrow>Nair.

Hey no worries, I appreciate all the help I can get. I've had friends tell me the all the same things you're telling me now and you're right. It's a nasty habit of mind to go for the Fair meteor and it kills me more often than it kills others. I guess I've got to work on breaking that. I'll definitely try to go for the safer options in the future cause that is a must if I'm ever gonna git gud.
As for the throws, I've actually been working on them since the tournament. The Dthrow really is a great little tool. I prefer combo-ing into the Dair but if they DI too much the Nair is always a good option. Thanks for the tips! I'm going to a tournament this weekend so I'll practice this stuff before then. Hopefully I'll have improved a bit since these videos were recorded. If we make any other Yoshi vids I'll be sure to post them here.

 

[TensenROB]

Yoshi Ditto's Kaysick vs @ 5-oNe

I don't know whether you've done this but I've done this in the past and just realized why it was a poor choice. In a Yoshi ditto match it's impossible to edgeguard with d-tilt because it has a set knockback, and Yoshi's double jump armour will power through it even at 999%. I think this would go for dealing with anyone approaching who has super armour, like Bowser.

By the way I love your matches Kaysick! I caught your match against TL on Wavedash Wednesday.

 

[Kaysick]

I don't know whether you've done this but I've done this in the past and just realized why it was a poor choice. In a Yoshi ditto match it's impossible to edgeguard with d-tilt because it has a set knockback, and Yoshi's double jump armour will power through it even at 999%. I think this would go for dealing with anyone approaching who has super armour, like Bowser.

By the way I love your matches Kaysick! I caught your match against TL on Wavedash Wednesday.

Thanks bud

Hopefully going to get more matches on stream tonight.

 

[Hashtag]

Only been playing yoshi for a little over 2 weeks. First time I'm getting to watch it myself. I'm seeing what I need to change up to very more approaches. Still a lot of technical errors too.

Hashtag (yoshi) vs Axe (pikachu)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUaNCXR27z4

I had to leave after a few more matches played off stream. He went fox and marth to help me in those match ups.

Was pretty impressed with my yoshi after only 2 weeks and 1 tourney of play with him. Just need to keep improving.

I see what I can do differently as well as becoming more fluid with yoshi. Want to see if you guys point out the same things I'm noticing. Watching your own game footage always helps.

 

[Alphicans]

I promised vids awhile ago and didn't deliver, this weekend though I should have vids. I am sure they won't disappoint!

 

[TensenROB]

Hashtag (yoshi) vs Axe (pikachu)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUaNCXR27z4

I love your oos usage! Especially at 1:48 I wouldn't think that was feasible but you do it very well!

 

[Alphicans]

Alright more will be coming, but here is a doubles match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq5--IsaqRM

 

[Kaysick]

Alright more will be coming, but here is a doubles match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq5--IsaqRM

Honestly the only thing I can say about your Yoshi for improvement is don't forget about your SideB. Other than that, great doubles match. Both of you have great synergy and I can see it going very far.

 

[Alphicans]

SideB in doubles is really risky, you can just randomly die

 

[Kaysick]

SideB in doubles is really risky, you can just randomly die

I can understand. Just saying don't forget about it. Honestly I have nothing else to say about your Yoshi to improve on it, its really solid.

 

[Deviljho]

SideB in doubles is really risky, you can just randomly die

Quick thing I noticed: sometimes, if you SideB off the edge of the stage, you can pop out and then double jump back to the stage. Only if you egg roll off the edge. That's just something I noticed. Thought I'd bring it up.

Great Matches! That was solid Yoshi shenanigans there! I agree with what Kaysick said, but that was still really cool! You also used downB to get to the ledge quite a bit, I guess for ledge shenanigans. I don't know what to say about that, it's a solid technique, and you used it well. Again, great work!

I'm pretty determined to go to a tourney soon and get some matches on stream, now. Won't be for a while though.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

How can you randomly die from sideb? Yoshi is not Squirtle, I don't see that being a problem. You'll still have your double jump, as long as you touched the ground at some point.

 

[Kaysick]

How can you randomly die from sideb? Yoshi is not Squirtle, I don't see that being a problem. You'll still have your double jump, as long as you touched the ground at some point.

He might be talking about getting hit off the edge while doing SideB. You lose your double jump

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You do? No you don't. If you touched the ground at any point during a sideB, you have your jump back. I've never experienced this loss of jump you speak of. You only lose it if you use sideB in the air, and don't touch the ground before getting hit. I've jumped, sideB'd, landed, and been hit out of it many times before and I'm completely able to jump again.

If you're talking about getting hit while trying to recover with sideB, and getting hit offstage before you can touch the ground to refresh your jumps, then that really has nothing to do with using sideB as a combo starter. For that matter, it probably means you're bad at recovering too, though I haven't actually played any doubles matches as Yoshi yet. The few I've actually played, I stuck with my Wario.

 

[Kaysick]

You do? No you don't. If you touched the ground at any point during a sideB, you have your jump back. I've never experienced this loss of jump you speak of. You only lose it if you use sideB in the air, and don't touch the ground before getting hit. I've jumped, sideB'd, landed, and been hit out of it many times before and I'm completely able to jump again.

If you're talking about getting hit while trying to recover with sideB, and getting hit offstage before you can touch the ground to refresh your jumps, then that really has nothing to do with using sideB as a combo starter. For that matter, it probably means you're bad at recovering too, though I haven't actually played any doubles matches as Yoshi yet. The few I've actually played, I stuck with my Wario.

I literally lost a stock last night against a DK that hit me off the stage while I was doing a grounded sideB at 30%. No double jump

 

[TensenROB]

I literally lost a stock last night against a DK that hit me off the stage while I was doing a grounded sideB at 30%. No double jump

Grounded side-b starts off with Yoshi doing a small hop as he gets into the egg, then he touches down and starts rolling. If you're knocked out of the startup of a grounded side-b (before you touch the ground), or if you do a grounded side-b off of a ledge, you don't get your double jump back. It's only as soon as you touch ground that you get your double jump.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Sounds about right

 

[Alphicans]

Privatejoker, in a doubles situation, stray hits, even the body of your partner can easily kill you in your sideB. Obviously there are times where it's going to be safe, but overall I think yoshi is one of the best stock tanks atm, and I don't want some off chance occurrence losing 1/4 of my tankiness.

Overall my thoughts one sideB (in singles too) is that it's really solid techchase. It can be a good approach vs bad/inexperienced players, but good players can easily wall it out, and if they do catch on they can abuse the start-up of sideB to really **** you... I mean no hitbox + loss of doublejump for a decent amount of time is a HUGE weakness in the move.

 

[Sinister Slush]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3j3a1Ej1cE
This was uploaded finally.

Only comments I can think of is didn't care much for this tournament. Just been playing P:M casually with some of the people in my town who happen to be top players so of course I'd prolly do better than most people who actually practice the game for a living, chose Smashville in almost all my matches outside of whenever the enemy wanted to counterpick me in pools.

First time playing against a Link in P:M and realizing how much the backroom for this mod buffed him. Also outside of the old Yoshi curse in Brawl with getting 17th or 13th place for all of us, the curse for me mostly is I only get matches recorded of myself getting beaten hard or playing badly despite previously beating a decently good player in my state or just playing on point.

 

[TensenROB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3j3a1Ej1cE
This was uploaded finally.

Only comments I can think of is didn't care much for this tournament. Just been playing P:M casually with some of the people in my town who happen to be top players so of course I'd prolly do better than most people who actually practice the game for a living, chose Smashville in almost all my matches outside of whenever the enemy wanted to counterpick me in pools.

First time playing against a Link in P:M and realizing how much the backroom for this mod buffed him. Also outside of the old Yoshi curse in Brawl with getting 17th or 13th place for all of us, the curse for me mostly is I only get matches recorded of myself getting beaten hard or playing badly despite previously beating a decently good player in my state or just playing on point.

A few things that stood out to me are the parry around 1:33 and the way you short dash-pivot grab consistently well. I think Yoshi can almost do pivot grabs from standing position!

edit: Yoshi can input a pivot grab the frame after starting his dash! He only seems to move around 1/5th the length of his shoe.

 

[Alphicans]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7gflEFUrG0 WF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNAVAQzUtRE GF

 

[Kaysick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7gflEFUrG0 WF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNAVAQzUtRE GF

Please play more Yoshi. Was learning new things juts by watching your WF match with the rising nair off stage. Will 100% be using it in my matches.

 

[Alphicans]

It stuffs the majority of recoveries really well tbh (can wreck marth really hard), however I find it's very risky vs firefox/bird since it knocks you right out of your jump.

And yes yoshi is my PM main, who I plan on sticking with unless he gets heavily nerfed in the future.

 

[Kaysick]

It stuffs the majority of recoveries really well tbh (can wreck marth really hard), however I find it's very risky vs firefox/bird since it knocks you right out of your jump.

And yes yoshi is my PM main, who I plan on sticking with unless he gets heavily nerfed in the future.

Any other really good tips you can dish out? I want to come back strong with Yoshi, slightly gravitating towards Kirby as my #1 main and I don't want it to be that way.

I'll be riding Yoshi and Kirby until the end when they nerf them both, which sadly can happen at any time since they were both introduced in 3.0. I think Yoshi is solid as is, minus parrying and Kirby can use a couple fixes(Like dash attack and some hats from inhale).

 

[Alphicans]

As you probably noticed, I used a lot of bair. That move is super good, crazy damage, sets up into almost anything (itself, usmash, ftilt, utilt) meaning even more juicy %. Also really know the followups you get off dthrow. Ivysaur is a really good weight for yoshi imo, and some characters you get limited followups.

 

[Kaysick]

As you probably noticed, I used a lot of bair. That move is super good, crazy damage, sets up into almost anything (itself, usmash, ftilt, utilt) meaning even more juicy %. Also really know the followups you get off dthrow. Ivysaur is a really good weight for yoshi imo, and some characters you get limited followups.

Good to know since one of the guys I enjoy playing against uses Ivy, even though he only brings it out in tournies. I noticed you use a lot of jabs, I use it a fair amount as well. Do you just use it for shield pressure/easy %?

 

[Alphicans]

Well jab is super safe vs ivysaur/all tether grabbing characters (or characters with an exceptionally slow grab). You can fearlessly jab ivy's shield, as well as characters like link, ZSS, TL, samus, Olimar, yoshi, lucas etc. You can mix up the timing of the jab vs other characters to dupe them out, or try to mash out the jabs faster to shield poke/out speed the grab. Jabx2 to dash grab works a lot of the time, so shield poking w/jab to grab is a huge reward.

EDIT: Also note that jab outranges some shield grabs, so if you have the spacing you can freely spam spaced jab for safe and super effective shield pressure.

 

[Kaysick]

Well jab is super safe vs ivysaur/all tether grabbing characters (or characters with an exceptionally slow grab). You can fearlessly jab ivy's shield, as well as characters like link, ZSS, TL, samus, Olimar, yoshi, lucas etc. You can mix up the timing of the jab vs other characters to dupe them out, or try to mash out the jabs faster to shield poke/out speed the grab. Jabx2 to dash grab works a lot of the time, so shield poking w/jab to grab is a huge reward.

EDIT: Also note that jab outranges some shield grabs, so if you have the spacing you can freely spam spaced jab for safe and super effective shield pressure.

Thanks for some more tips! Going out to a buddy's house tomorrow and will be going to the weekly tourney I go to on Wednesday. Will be bringing Yoshi in full force! You're inspiring me more. Loved watching your WF and GF matches, watched all of it.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I usually use bair a lot, but I'm starting to see what others are saying and have started using dair a lot more. It's a little harder to land, and not as safe, but it's so meaty when it hits, and sets up perfectly for followups. A balance between the two seems optimal. Punish with dair when possible, but space bair when you think they know it's coming. I'm starting to find the balance, but so much of my play becomes habitual stuff when I'm struggling, and I need to adapt faster. I need to find a way to get videos up :/

 

[Alphicans]

I would probably only seriously dair as a techchase, or as a way to pressure people holding shield on a platform above me. Two moves I don't use enough of yet is dair and egg lay. I don't think dair should be used liberally, but if you can get it in a few times a match, that's really huge.

 

[Sinister Slush]

You definitely don't use eggthrow either.

 

[Alphicans]

I just don't think it's very good aside from some slight offstage pressure (although really good against tethers)

 

[Kaysick]

You definitely don't use eggthrow either.

I just don't think it's very good aside from some slight offstage pressure (although really good against tethers)

The only time I would ever use egg throw is when the opponent is above me and I know their dair hits me and my uair wont hit them. I.e. Ganon, Toon Link/Link

 

[#HBC | Joker]

It's actually really good for stuffing air approaches, and following up juggles. If you get in the habit of tossing an egg up every time your opponent is above you, you start controlling how they land, and it makes continuing the juggle that much easier.