Project M Social Thread

[Shell]

Almas & shanus are close to finishing up the HAD code, and then we'll be polishing up gravities and landing detections after that. In other words, creating the tightness of control and fluidity of movement that partially defined Melee.

It's hard to tell how long that will take (hopefully less than a month...? Don't quote me on anything) and then I wouldn't be surprised to see another trailer highlighting that work.

 

[shanus]

Basically almost all of the codes are complete, except stuff we are waiting for from Almas (LOLSLACKER)

 

[Alphatron]

I'm holding off my hype for this since I plan to stop visiting smashboards as often and focus on other things. But is the ledge cancel code working well too?

...and taunt cancelling?

 

[shanus]

Taunt canceling works, edge canceling melee style (of teeter) has an issue as if you use the slide off edge command (to allow edge canceling backwards), then it breaks the teeter part and makes bad things happen, but I think I have an idea for how to fix it.

 

[Sneak8288]

My main concern is how this is gonna feel, to get the melee community to play this is gonna have to feel almost exactly like melee. I heard alot of melee players saying that they didnt want to play brawl+ because it felt like watered down melee, although i understand that wasnt the intention of brawl+. Along with a new trailer you guys should upload single matches. Either way all the work you guys are doin is impressive. When Gw posted that mario vid it looked impressive and ALOT like melee. I was surprised how good it actually was, I can't wait. One more thing, is there a way you guys can make an easy mode? for players who can't be as technical. A mode that has wavedashing as one button and auto cancelling etc or something like that. I wouldn't need it or anything I'm a techincal spacies player lol but I have friends who like melee but dont want to play it because of the tech skill needed.

 

[Deleted member]

So, for Sheik, you're removing the autocombos (ala B+) and using Melee fair which will lead to a string or KO depending on prediction and DI?

Will her fair angle be Meleefied too? The BKB, hit angle, speed, and hitbox of fair are just... ridiculous...

Seems like a tipper fair or a fair with a sweet spot very close to Sheik's body would be more balanced with the non sweet spot fair being the B+ model.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Actually, Sheik had auto comboes in Melee. Don't take em out plz.

About her dthrow, CG or no CG?

The fair should be the same with less knockback.

My main concern is how this is gonna feel, to get the melee community to play this is gonna have to feel almost exactly like melee. I heard alot of melee players saying that they didnt want to play brawl+ because it felt like watered down melee, although i understand that wasnt the intention of brawl+. Along with a new trailer you guys should upload single matches. Either way all the work you guys are doin is impressive. When Gw posted that mario vid it looked impressive and ALOT like melee. I was surprised how good it actually was

THAT WAS MELEE. LOL

 

[Sneak8288]

So, for Sheik, you're removing the autocombos (ala B+) and using Melee fair which will lead to a string or KO depending on prediction and DI?

Will her fair angle be Meleefied too? The BKB, hit angle, speed, and hitbox of fair are just... ridiculous...

Seems like a tipper fair or a fair with a sweet spot very close to Sheik's body would be more balanced with the non sweet spot fair being the B+ model.

The only thing wrong with shieks melee fair is the angle. Its almost impossible to DI. The speed and hitbox are fine. Her auto combos should be there. I think it teaches you to be more evasive of tilts, things like crouch cancelling stopped most "autocombos" anyway, unless ur definition of shieks autocombos are something different than what I'm thinking.

 

[Sneak8288]

Actually, Sheik had auto comboes in Melee. Don't take em out plz.

About her dthrow, CG or no CG?

The fair should be the same with less knockback.

THAT WAS MELEE. LOL

lmao i was watchin from my phone... it was too small to tell

Edit: double post for epic failing on my part lmfao

 

[ETWIST51294]

Alright, good excuse. lol....if Doc wasn't in the vid...

 

[Sneak8288]

Alright, good excuse. lol....if Doc wasn't in the vid...

i thought it was just a texture lol. It was blurry and kept buffering so i didnt watch the whole thing. Only the 1st couple seconds

 

[UltiMario]

No Johns.

 

[Sneak8288]

No Johns.

Nah son its legit lmfao. But back to shiek... her dthrow is questionable. The normal and PAL versions of the game have different dthrows and because of it the shieks out here and in europe have developed their metagame very differently. Honestly I think euro shieks are better than american shieks because their strats don't revolve around a OPed throw. Just look at amsah

 

[ETWIST51294]

I know this, but sheik's much more fun with her NTSC dthrow.

 

[Sneak8288]

I guess, off topic.. they should still add smoke on wavedashing and landing lol

 

[ETWIST51294]

SHeLL said that it wouldn't be too hard to implement, but yeah, smoke should happen when I WD.

 

[GwJ]

Actually, Sheik had auto comboes in Melee. Don't take em out plz.

About her dthrow, CG or no CG?

The fair should be the same with less knockback.

THAT WAS MELEE. LOL

Great success!

 

[Sneak8288]

I cant wait for this tho, I think diddy would be crazy if technical players get ahold of him. Ariel glide tossing plus wavelanding platforms to grab bananas. Just picture jumping and wavelanding, pickin up a nana and then ariel glide tossing on the way down... ugh, the possibilities. This will be amazing lol

 

[Deleted member]

The only thing wrong with shieks melee fair is the angle. Its almost impossible to DI. The speed and hitbox are fine. Her auto combos should be there. I think it teaches you to be more evasive of tilts, things like crouch cancelling stopped most "autocombos" anyway, unless ur definition of shieks autocombos are something different than what I'm thinking.

God no, her auto combos are bull@#$%. If Falco and DDD don't get chain grabs to 60, Sheik shouldnt get autocombo to fair KOs.

Melee fair: Large hitbox, broken BKB, appropriate speed, broken hit angle. Individual traits broken? No. Combined? Yes, especially regarding that it KO's from her easy combos on top of a huge gimp game.

With Sheik being a nice, even character in B+, it is unnecessary to put in something so broken especially if her gimp game is enhanced with tether recoveries, mindgames improved with wavedashing and crawl dashing.

Meh.

 

[ETWIST51294]

But the thing is, D3 AND FALCOS CGS AREN'T IN MELEE, SHEIKS AUTO COMBOS ARE. It needs to feel like Melee Sheik.

 

[Shadic]

Yeah, but that's where "Slightly nerfing the top-tier characters" comes in. Sheik in Melee is ridiculous.

It can feel like Melee Sheik but with some small nerfs. Or do you want ProjectM to be just as unbalanced as Melee?

 

[ETWIST51294]

Fair and dthrow nerf. DONE. That's all she has. She's so simply it's crazy.

edit: if she's still too good nerf her bair, nair, or needles.

BTW non-competitive players, you can CC her ftilt, dtilt, utilt, fair, and her dash attack which makes sheik players hesitant on whether they should or shouldn't go for these auto combos because Sheik gets combo/CG *****.

 

[Sneak8288]

Its not even that bad... those moves being "broken" in melee doesn't change much. When's the last time shiek has won a major tourney out here? The auto combos only give you one free hit in most situations unless your DI is awful. Just because something is good doesnt mean it needs to be changed. Players develop around it, you guys act like shiek is unbeatable in melee. And like i said before if you get tilted you can CC it and counter. Its not always garunteed

 

[a nub]

What about increasing the knockback growth on dthrow so anyone who would still get cg'd could get out at lower %s? I'd imagine dthrow > fair would also still work but becomes escapable at earlier %s and fastfallers could still be techchased. idk if this would actually work out but it seems worth a try.

I won't lie, sheik is undeniably top tier, but the knee jerk reaction shouldn't be to nerf the hell out of whatever makes her good, this aint brawl mk . She has her problems with crouch cancelling, getting comboed, and super punishable up b landlag. Nerfs, I feel, should be as minimal as possible. The focus should be on buffing the rest of the cast. In this case, I'm no sheik expert, but I can imagine a dthrow change, slightly weaker fair, and maybe a tiny range reduction on ftilt should be fine.

What's gonna happen to her usmash? Will it stay similar to the brawl one? cuz she could really use a good way to punish jiggs and I remember that dacus thing actually being cool

edit: speaking of crouch cancelling, has there been any progress on that yet?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Yeah, but that's where "Slightly nerfing the top-tier characters" comes in. Sheik in Melee is ridiculous.

It can feel like Melee Sheik but with some small nerfs. Or do you want ProjectM to be just as unbalanced as Melee?

Sheik isnt ridiculous. She struggles to get back onstage, some of her stuff can be crouch cancelled, her ftilt CAN be punished and she gets CG ***** by lots of characters. She may be simple tech skill wise. But she's not easy to win with. Especially when spacies and jigglypuff beat her. :/ She doesnt need any nerf except for her dthrow chaingrabs.

I guess, off topic.. they should still add smoke on wavedashing and landing lol

This X 800000.

 

[Shell]

Crouch canceling is a polarizing issue which we haven't really addressed much yet, let alone thought about how to code.

I'm not sure that we could change the fundamental way ASDI works enough to implement CC as it existed in Melee... then again, miracle codes have occurred before.

I have a few ideas about ways to ghetto rig something up. I personally have mixed feeling on CCing, seeing how it could make or break characters.

Also, I wont say anything else on Sheik yet except for the fact that I'd like to preserve her core strategies and strengths while giving her a bit more of a learning curve. Tighter timings on combo windows with a much greater dependence on DI in general. We can't really depend on CCing to be a major player in balancing her, necessarily.

Her tether recovery from Brawl has been removed to account for her Melee Fair, by the way.

 

[Rikana]

With Sheik being a nice, even character in B+, it is unnecessary to put in something so broken especially if her gimp game is enhanced with tether recoveries, mindgames improved with wavedashing and crawl dashing.

I'm assuming the tether recovery is going to be removed because this project is gonna be more like Melee. Also, it would just make her gimp game ridiculous with Melee mechanics.

Edit: Ninja'd by Shell.

 

[Sneak8288]

Crouch canceling is a polarizing issue which we haven't really addressed much yet, let alone thought about how to code.

I'm not sure that we could change the fundamental way ASDI works enough to implement CC as it existed in Melee... then again, miracle codes have occurred before.

I have a few ideas about ways to ghetto rig something up. I personally have mixed feeling on CCing, seeing how it could make or break characters.

Also, I wont say anything else on Sheik yet except for the fact that I'd like to preserve her core strategies and strengths while giving her a bit more of a learning curve. Tighter timings on combo windows with a much greater dependence on DI in general. We can't really depend on CCing to be a major player in balancing her, necessarily.

Her tether recovery from Brawl has been removed to account for her Melee Fair, by the way.

Is there a way u guys can modify super armor? maybe make a certain level of super armor when someone crouches at lower percents or something similar to that? just an idea but im not sure how smart or possible it might be

 

[DtJ Jungle]

nerf the fair

please dont take away our dthrow!!!

 

[TLMSheikant]

dont nerf the fair. And let us have our dthrow <3.

 

[Rikana]

Buff her manboobs.

 

[Shadic]

Sheik isnt ridiculous. She struggles to get back onstage, some of her stuff can be crouch cancelled, her ftilt CAN be punished and she gets CG ***** by lots of characters. She may be simple tech skill wise. But she's not easy to win with. Especially when spacies and jigglypuff beat her. :/ She doesnt need any nerf except for her dthrow chaingrabs.

Crouch Canceling doesn't exist in Project M (yet?), and she gained a tether for her recovery.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Crouch Canceling doesn't exist in Project M (yet?), and she gained a tether for her recovery.

Which got removed for her fair buff making her have that recovery weakness again.

 

[Sneak8288]

If her up b can sweetspot ledges like it did in melee then there is no need for a tether. If not give her the tether

 

[FireBall Stars]

Without the sweetspot on edge and the tether would require a little more skill to recover.

Well, melee's sheik is a monster on stage and has great gimping skills, I think there's no problem for her to have a little more work on recoveries.

And without the ledgeroll glitch, edgeguarding on sheik would be problem.

Think on maintaning the melee feeling but balancing the game at the same time. Some things from Melee characters must me changed to do this, not only buffing the lower tiers.

kirby for example, his main problems in melee was lack of range, priority, unecessary lag, bad air control and little height gain in his midair jumps, some crappy moves mas be changed to good moves. As for the Top tiers, some "too good" moves must be changed to good moves. =D

 

[a nub]

But melee edgehoging seems like it's gonna stay (which it should) and she has 849347382191822387375436 frames of up b landlag that you can punish. Slight changes to dthrow and fair should be the only nerfs at this point. Would the knockback growth increase on dthrow I mentioned seem like it'd work?

obviously kirby's gonna be massively buffed considering he's pretty much tied for worst. n64 and barlw kirby being good should make deciding on his buffs relatively simple, or so I'm assuming.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I WlLL BE PISSED IF I DON'T HAVE MY ****ING EDGEROLLING GLITCH

 

[Hellsinglover999]

ncst downthrow was broken they should make it like pal lol atleast thats my vote her fair was fine

 

[shanus]

I WlLL BE PISSED IF I DON'T HAVE MY ****ING EDGEROLLING GLITCH

figure out how to make it then.

 

[DaFlameking]

After reading a majority of this thread its showing that this might revitalize the smash community in a big breakthrough. Bring back old Melee players, draw in some B+ and Brawl competitive players. Only time will tell.

In between the tweaking, a website should create even more interest in this.

Like everyone else, can't wait.