Project M Social Thread

[`dazrin]

Streaming 2.5 Sundaze fest now @ http://twitch.tv/dazee_

LOTS of people will be here today, including: Yakal, Rusty, BigD, Noobking, Starwaffle, SinisterB, Violence, T-Block, Firefly, and many more + 2 Special guests

 

[Onomanic]

Streaming 2.5 Sundaze fest now @ http://twitch.tv/dazee_

LOTS of people will be here today, including: Yakal, Rusty, BigD, Noobking, Starwaffle, SinisterB, Violence, T-Block, Firefly, and many more + 2 Special guests

I better see that cute TL of yours.

 

[Life]

Down air's sweetspot hitboxes were redesigned. While the timing is the same, the sweetspot now encompasses the entirety of Pit's blade. In addition, the move is now a spike and thus cannot be meteor-canceled. Although the knockback is still on the weak side, landing one offstage is both more practical and deadlier.

YESSSSSSSSS
Pit gets a Ken combo! Whoooo!

(I was trying fair to glide to dair to footstool in training mode and couldn't quite land it, now it's actually kinda possible)

 

[metroid1117]

I really couldn't care less what Metroid thinks about the change to nair; he went out of his way for a long while just to avoid using it in 2.1 under the impression that it wasn't a good move. I could say the same thing about changes made to any move if I didn't like it. "Oh, Ike's fair sends upward now, with more active frames? Well that's so much better than its 2.1 incarnation, I'd say."

The impression I got from NAir was from playing against my friend who played Charizard since Demo 2.0 and, at the time, used NAir as his primary aerial for defensive and offensive purposes. After seeing it countless times, I learned its weaknesses and punished him pretty fairly consistently whenever he tried using NAir. However, after watching him play Charizard, I got a lot of ideas for other offensive options that are pretty evident in my playstyle.

NAir is certainly a good move, but relying on the underside to combo outside of edgeguarding is not reliable. If your opponent wants to, late reverse NAir is really punishable if you try to use it by landing on a platform; I used that a lot in my most recent tournament, but a lot of my opponents had very little to no prior experience against Charizard, so I was able to get away with a lot of stuff that, if it were to be done against me, would be punished. Late reverse NAir -> BAir is a good way to edgeguard, but in terms of edgeguarding utility, it's not as consistent as a "Tipman" reverse NAir because you don't have to worry about linking into a second move.

All I'm saying is the word of one pmbr member that didn't even like the move in 2.1 is kind of a sloppy and biased design choice/reasoning.

That would definitely be sloppy and biased design choice, but it wasn't just me who approved of the NAir changes. Jiang and other playtesters for Charizard approved of it as well.

Kink, I urge you to wait for Demo 2.5 to be released before making judgments on the utility of the new NAir. I understand that it's hard when an aspect of a character that you've put a lot of work into mastering is changed; it's something I've experienced and something I've seen as a member of the PMBR and as a player of Brawl+. As much as you may hate the idea of a NAir that doesn't knock the opponent upward on the late reverse hit, please play with Demo 2.5's NAir for a long period of time to form an educated opinion on its utility verses Demo 2.1's NAir.

EDIT: Added some words for clarity, thanks iLink.

 

[iLink]

Kink, I urge you to wait for Demo 2.5 to be released before making judgments on the utility of the new NAir. I understand that it's hard when an aspect of a character that you've put a lot of work into mastering is changed; it's something I've experienced and something I've seen as a member of the PMBR and as a player of Brawl+. As much as you may hate the idea of a NAir that doesn't knock the opponent upward on the reverse hit, please play with Demo 2.5's NAir for a long period of time to form an educated opinion on its utility verses Demo 2.1's NAir.

When you mean reverse hit, do you mean when it starts up behind him or after it makes the full rotation? By the wording, I assumed it basically hit the opponent in the direction the tail was swing, so hitting with the first few frames when it starts up behind him would still launch the opponent and would allow it to still be a good RAR option.

 

[ELI-mination]

I'm quite certain the pmbr values a non-douche attitude over player skill, take my word for it.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Is there anyone besides Dantarion and Magus I can donate to? Shanus, Shadic, Toaster, Monk, Neko? Vanguard? 9K?

 

[UltiMario]

Giving people money makes you look like a generous person.

It doesn't make people listen to what's wrong though.

You can't bribe the PMBR to listen to your balance "advice".

 

[ELI-mination]

You can donate to me if you want

Aka enter a p:m tournament I'm at

 

[metroid1117]

When you mean reverse hit, do you mean when it starts up behind him or after it makes the full rotation? By the wording, I assumed it basically hit the opponent in the direction the tail was swing, so hitting with the first few frames when it starts up behind him would still launch the opponent and would allow it to still be a good RAR option.

Sorry for the confusion, it still sends upward on the initial reverse hit. I was referring to the part that hits at 6 o'clock and later.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If you can provide a way to a tournament, I can go.

Giving people money makes you look like a generous person.

It doesn't make people listen to what's wrong though.

You can't bribe the PMBR to listen to your balance "advice".

?

What does that have anything to do with anything?

 

[Jolteon]

If you have money spend it on travel

>____>

 

[Kink-Link5]

Lowest bus fair I've been able to find is $81 U.S. one-way and that's just to go up to Eau Claire for Monk/Toaster :/

I figure it would be more direct to just donate; less time investment (No 18 hour bus ride), and less hassle involved with communicating with other human beings.

 

[Jolteon]

Wow america sucks >_>

I will never have to learn to drive as long as I live here LOL.

 

[iLink]

Sorry for the confusion, it still sends upward on the initial reverse hit. I was referring to the part that hits at 6 o'clock and later.

Currently, when Charizard does a nair next to a ledge and facing away from it, his tail will pass through the stage and hit right below the ledge. With the new change, would that cause it to semi-spike someone or what would be the trajectory of that?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Wow america sucks >_>

Manifest destiny, man. We need all this empty land so we can be more important or whatever.

But yeah, travel fair is ridiculous with such a large landmass.

Even across this state to get to Des Moines where there's something of a 10-person scene is about the same time as going from London to Cardiff.

 

[metroid1117]

Currently, when Charizard does a nair next to a ledge and facing away from it, his tail will pass through the stage and hit right below the ledge. With the new change, would that cause it to semi-spike someone or what would be the trajectory of that?

Demo 2.5 Charizard's NAir is amazing for edgeguarding... I'll leave it at that .

 

[DrinkingFood]

sorry kink I guess I cursed it

 

[Kink-Link5]

It's just funny to me that we specifically talked about what change would be dumb and it happens to be a change that really was made.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Also ROB's nair needs a rotating trajectory.
Of all the characters it would be good for, I imagine he won't be getting it since it's already a pretty good kill move, that would only be made better by being able to send at a low angle.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Normally I'd go along with you Food, but I don't want to get a warning/banned.


Really though, is there a way to donate to Shanus for all of his work?

 

[leelue]

Donate to that sonic main
Hypersomething

 

[Kink-Link5]

You aren't even PMBR Hyper; offerings to you are as worthless as they are to Daze's little munchkin brother.

 

[Xebenkeck]

So let me get this straight Pit can Glide off stage if he is on the ground. Attack out of his glide, Jump, Glide again, Jump, Jump, then Up-B?

 

[Kink-Link5]

So let me get this straight Pit can Glide off stage if he is on the ground. Attack out of his glide, Jump, Glide again, Jump, then Up-B?

He can do this in 2.1, but yes, he still can in 2.5 from the sounds of it, as well as glide->empty glide end without going into freefall.

So it is buffed/nerfed in some stuff.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I believe there's an extra couple frames of lag when using wireless based controllers.

Is that something that will really screw you up? And can anyone confirm?

 

[Xebenkeck]

Things like wavebirds do indeed cause a bit of lag. A wired connection is always faster then and transmitted connection. LAN lines are still superior to routers. Same concept.

 

[leelue]

Last I heard, wavebirds added something like 1/2000th (estimated) of a second to your transmission. So, every 35 inputs or so would have an added frame of lag.
These numbers are merely illustrative

 

[joY]

Is that something that will really screw you up? And can anyone confirm?

Last I heard, wavebirds added something like 1/2000th (estimated) of a second to your transmission. So, every 35 inputs or so would have an added frame of lag.

To some people, that alone is enough of a justification to purchase and use a wired controller.

But if you feel confident enough, it's your preference.

#gowired

 

[cannedbread]

i've never noticed any lag honestly

 

[`dazrin]

http://twitch.tv/dazee_ Still streaming Demo 2.5! Meta, the #1 puff in Canada, has returned!!

 

[metroid1117]

It's just funny to me that we specifically talked about what change would be dumb and it happens to be a change that really was made.

Kink, please. None of us in the PMBR appreciate it when people constantly complain about a change that has been discussed, playtested, and liked by the people who've tried it. I've already responded to you, but please refrain from passing judgment on any changes before Demo 2.5 is released and you try it for yourself to form an educated opinion.

This is the last time I will respond to this issue.

To all who read this: The above response applies to everyone. We don't appreciate negative comments from people who have not had the opportunity to try Demo 2.5.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Things like wavebirds do indeed cause a bit of lag. A wired connection is always faster then and transmitted connection. LAN lines are still superior to routers. Same concept.

daaaaaaaaamn

Last I heard, wavebirds added something like 1/2000th (estimated) of a second to your transmission. So, every 35 inputs or so would have an added frame of lag.
These numbers are merely illustrative

Sounds like it really doesn't matter then, imma give it a try

 

[cannedbread]

the life of a theorycrafter

 

[DrinkingFood]

Kink, please. None of us in the PMBR appreciate it when people constantly complain about a change that has been discussed, playtested, and liked by the people who've tried it. I've already responded to you, but please refrain from passing judgment on any changes before Demo 2.5 is released and you try it for yourself to form an educated opinion.

This is the last time I will respond to this issue.

To all who read this: The above response applies to everyone. We don't appreciate negative comments from people who have not had the opportunity to try Demo 2.5.

Metroid, he has perfect right to complain. PMBR wouldn't understand, since this doesn't apply to them, but any changes you guys make and release for demo 2.5 are basically set in stone for the rest of us for a healthy 8 months or more. It's not like, for us, "Oh well turns out it wasn't a good idea after all, good thing it takes like 5 minutes or less to fix and distribute to the players."

So I would ask PMBR not whether we will like it, because that's not really the issue. Charizard came off to pretty much everybody as a character that was lacking. The real problem is "Is this objectively better than what he had before? If not, why on earth would you nerf him? If so, please explain, 'cause we just aren't seeing it." A demonstration of using the new move (using it better than the old nair) in a game on a livestream preview would suffice, I imagine. Since your playtesters all loved the move, and obviously were comparing it to old charizard's nair because that should be how playtesters work, by comparing versions of the game rather than just looking at things in a vacuum, I could imagine it being okay to hold judgement until... we see a livestream. But asking us to wait for the release is equivalent to telling us to just get over it because it's not gonna change. Because once it's been there for that long, however long demo 3 or w/e takes, and other issues are discovered, this one will just blow to the wayside in the minds of PMBR as "another minor issue that doesn't need to be addressed" unless we make a big deal of it now. And btw, it's not just this one thing or that one thing, it's some of the design philosophies changing things like this indicates of the PMBR that makes some of us worried. Not to dismiss how well PMBR has done 95% of the time, but I feel there's nothing wrong with pushing for a healthy 100%.

 

[Comeback Kid]

The devs have nicely said to shut the hell up already on speculation, but I'm interested to see what they do if it keeps up.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Well, they can have people infracted by mods presumably.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Metroid, he has perfect right to complain. PMBR wouldn't understand, since this doesn't apply to them, but any changes you guys make and release for demo 2.5 are basically set in stone for the rest of us for a healthy 8 months or more. It's not like, for us, "Oh well turns out it wasn't a good idea after all, good thing it takes like 5 minutes or less to fix and distribute to the players."

So I would ask PMBR not whether we will like it, because that's not really the issue. Charizard came off to pretty much everybody as a character that was lacking. The real problem is "Is this objectively better than what he had before? If not, why on earth would you nerf him? If so, please explain, 'cause we just aren't seeing it." A demonstration of using the new move (using it better than the old nair) in a game on a livestream preview would suffice, I imagine. Since your playtesters all loved the move, and obviously were comparing it to old charizard's nair because that should be how playtesters work, by comparing versions of the game rather than just looking at things in a vacuum, I could imagine it being okay to hold judgement until... we see a livestream. But asking us to wait for the release is equivalent to telling us to just get over it because it's not gonna change. Because once it's been there for that long, however long demo 3 or w/e takes, and other issues are discovered, this one will just blow to the wayside in the minds of PMBR as "another minor issue that doesn't need to be addressed" unless we make a big deal of it now. And btw, it's not just this one thing or that one thing, it's some of the design philosophies changing things like this indicates of the PMBR that makes some of us worried. Not to dismiss how well PMBR has done 95% of the time, but I feel there's nothing wrong with pushing for a healthy 100%.

could you turn off the red please?

 

[cannedbread]

user cp > settings & options > edit options > thread display options > show custom posts colors > off

 

[Comeback Kid]

user cp > settings & options > edit options > thread display options > show custom posts colors > off

It should fall on the person posting to be sure their post is legible, not hide all colors in the posts I see.