Project M Social Thread

[ELI-mination]

So when are you guys gonna buff spacies

 

[Ace55]

Between knockback stacking and ledgeteching they should already be better than 2.1 spacies .

 

[9Kplus1]

So when are you guys gonna buff spacies

Once Zelda gets buffed, I assume

 

[Kink-Link5]

Sorry to get you dragged into this Food. It's pretty clear that nothing outside of PMBR Members or tournament players with access to the PMBR Members is going to have much of an influence at all on their decisions.

Even 9K, with fairly regular interaction with them, has no sway on the choices of our PMBR overlords. All we can do is sit and wait for whatever they produce and accept it; that's all there is to it.

 

[The_Guide]

Or you could upload match footage demonstrating your points. You know. For science.

 

[ELI-mination]

You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna design a game and show clips of it on youtube. Then I'm going to read the youtube comments. If there's a random youtube comment from someone requesting a change, I will immediately do it. Because everyone's opinion holds equal weight.

What if 2 people have contradicting viewpoints? Uh oh, I'm in for a world of trouble.

 

[Yung Mei]

sounds legit, can i join you :3c

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna design a game and show clips of it on youtube. Then I'm going to read the youtube comments. If there's a random youtube comment from someone requesting a change, I will immediately do it. Because everyone's opinion holds equal weight.

What if 2 people have contradicting viewpoints? Uh oh, I'm in for a world of trouble.

Sounds dangerously close to B+.

 

[Kink-Link5]

You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna design a game and show clips of it on youtube. Then I'm going to read the youtube comments. If there's a random youtube comment from someone requesting a change, I will immediately do it. Because everyone's opinion holds equal weight.

What if 2 people have contradicting viewpoints? Uh oh, I'm in for a world of trouble.

I don't see how this applies to a game with an established demo version of a character available for public testing at all.

Like, maybe if there was never a demo 2 you'd make a bit of sense by saying this, but as it stands this is just nonsensical. Whatever changes are made to a character, the public that receives it is forced to accept it because it won't be getting changed unless it is far and away universally detested.

To answer the question at the bottom, you would test both out before letting the public get a hold of a playable demo, and if the version included in the demo is well-received, you have a keeper.

 

[ELI-mination]

I don't see how this applies to a game with an established demo version of a character available for public testing at all.

Like, maybe if there was never a demo 2 you'd make a bit of sense by saying this, but as it stands this is just nonsensical. Whatever changes are made to a character, the public that receives it is forced to accept it because it won't be getting changed unless it is far and away universally detested.

To answer the question at the bottom, you would test both out before letting the public get a hold of a playable demo, and if the version included in the demo is well-received, you have a keeper.

What is it that you think playtesters do? Do you think they theorize all day? lol

 

[The_Guide]

I don't see how this applies to a game with an established demo version of a character available for public testing at all.

Like, maybe if there was never a demo 2 you'd make a bit of sense by saying this, but as it stands this is just nonsensical.

To answer the question at the bottom, you would test both out before letting the public get a hold of a playable demo, and if the version included in the demo is well-received, you have a keeper.

You know, having a demo version of the game allows you to actually show people what you mean. Just telling people about something in the game isn't very efficient since, well, why would they take your word when its weighed against their play experience?

To make that relevant to this discussion, why don't you upload a video demonstrating the merits of Charizard's old nair?

 

[Kink-Link5]

To make that relevant to this discussion, why don't you upload a video demonstrating the merits of Charizard's old nair?

No playerbase at the moment, but if my roommate ever wants to play again I can stream some nairzard at http://www.twitch.tv/kinklink5

I've been trying to get this stream setup squared away, but there probably won't be a mic/webcam anytime soon.

 

[The_Guide]

No playerbase at the moment, but if my roommate ever wants to play again I can stream some nairzard at http://www.twitch.tv/kinklink5

Hell, it doesn't even have to be a match. Go into the lab, record some set-ups.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Hell, it doesn't even have to be a match. Go into the lab, record some set-ups.

If you really don't care about "No DI therefore irrelevant," sure. I don't usually incorporate combos when I play, but I can try to put some stuff in for simplified applications. I usually just play in the moment and go for moves that work for the situation. Play in the neutral game you know?

I'll get a lab setup sometime this week though. Finals and whatnot.

 

[Warhawk]

If you don't like the changes to Charizard's nair you can just keep playing 2.1. The rest of us are open to try it first when 2.5 comes out and then decide whether to ask for it to be reverted or not... And the key even then is to ask for it and not just sit there and ***** about it, because we are entitled to nothing from them.

 

[metroid1117]

Metroid, he has perfect right to complain. PMBR wouldn't understand, since this doesn't apply to them, but any changes you guys make and release for demo 2.5 are basically set in stone for the rest of us for a healthy 8 months or more. It's not like, for us, "Oh well turns out it wasn't a good idea after all, good thing it takes like 5 minutes or less to fix and distribute to the players."

So I would ask PMBR not whether we will like it, because that's not really the issue. Charizard came off to pretty much everybody as a character that was lacking. The real problem is "Is this objectively better than what he had before? If not, why on earth would you nerf him? If so, please explain, 'cause we just aren't seeing it." A demonstration of using the new move (using it better than the old nair) in a game on a livestream preview would suffice, I imagine. Since your playtesters all loved the move, and obviously were comparing it to old charizard's nair because that should be how playtesters work, by comparing versions of the game rather than just looking at things in a vacuum, I could imagine it being okay to hold judgement until... we see a livestream. But asking us to wait for the release is equivalent to telling us to just get over it because it's not gonna change. Because once it's been there for that long, however long demo 3 or w/e takes, and other issues are discovered, this one will just blow to the wayside in the minds of PMBR as "another minor issue that doesn't need to be addressed" unless we make a big deal of it now. And btw, it's not just this one thing or that one thing, it's some of the design philosophies changing things like this indicates of the PMBR that makes some of us worried. Not to dismiss how well PMBR has done 95% of the time, but I feel there's nothing wrong with pushing for a healthy 100%.

With regards to the first bolded portion, I find questions like to be perfectly acceptable. It's appropriately level-headed and (except for the "why on earth" part) neutral. However, Kink has a tendency to post negative, snarky comments that are simply disrespectful towards the people he disagrees with. If he were to re-phrase his original reaction to the update to be as level-headed and respectful as the question you posted (instead of that last bit of "Any pmbr member care to answer, or is that notorious lack of PR going to shine through again?"), I'm sure that myself and others would be much more willing to answer him.

As for the second bolded portion, the two livestreams on my YouTube channel show the new NAir (I'm sure there's more than two hours of Charizard footage between those two streams) and I'll be uploading some Charizard matches against my friend's Ivysuar later on when I have time to sift through the footage.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If you don't like the changes to Charizard's nair you can just keep playing 2.1. The rest of us are open to try it first when 2.5 comes out and then decide whether to ask for it to be reverted or not... And the key even then is to ask for it and not just sit there and ***** about it, because we are entitled to nothing from them.

Whatever gave you any impression of something even slightly resembling this? No one is entitled to anything. You get what you get and accept it/utilize it as it's given. If it's worse it's worse. He just has to use it in a completely different way.

 

[The_Guide]

Sorry to get you dragged into this Food. It's pretty clear that nothing outside of PMBR Members or tournament players with access to the PMBR Members is going to have much of an influence at all on their decisions.

Even 9K, with fairly regular interaction with them, has no sway on the choices of our PMBR overlords. All we can do is sit and wait for whatever they produce and accept it; that's all there is to it.

Umm... what would you call this?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Acceptance phrased in a pessimistic manner. I accept whatever the PMBR makes, knowing I have no sway on the matter.

Fatalist maybe, not pessimistic.

 

[Life]

My reaction to this discussion: *broken link of kinklink's avatar*

 

[ELI-mination]

 

[Kink-Link5]

Pretty much how I've been feeling today.

Like, you ever have one of those days where you physically cannot sigh heavy enough?

My body is just not large enough to contain all of my emotions. Ah well. Look forward to the lab stream later this week, and if I can get to Joker's monthly in Des Moines on the 15th, I'll be bringing a PM 2.1 setup there as well. Not sure if I'll be able to bring a stream setup, but if my roommate comes with me we can record matches.

 

[Warhawk]

Whatever gave you any impression of something even slightly resembling this?

I dunno maybe...

Any pmbr member care to answer, or is that notorious lack of PR going to shine through again?

You also made a lot of assumptions about the way they did things as if it must have been poorly done because in your eyes it didn't seem like a good change (that you haven't even tested yet). You came across as very rude and bratty. There are definitely other ways to make your point, when you wouldn't even be getting to play this game without their work.

 

[Kink-Link5]

PMBR is pretty restrictive in its PR statements. Most things restricted to "Please wait until later to find out about this character/whatever else." It isn't a stretch to call it notorious, when it's something the team is known for.

Shell even commented that these character writeup were specifically meant to address what seemed like a lack of communication with the public. I wasn't "joking" about their pr history, and yes, I was rude in my wording, but my point still stands and I still mean every word.

I do apologize for HOW it was worded though.

 

[smashbro29]

I know this may have beaten into the ground but I feel it's very important for the game to have an extended lifespan.

I'm talking about WiiU support, right now we can run P:M but can't use Gamecube controllers there might be a converter but we need a solution for soft shielding, is there any code that can give you soft shielding on a classic controller?

Maybe map shoft shielding to "ZR" and "ZL" and on the gamecube controller have soft press = ZR or ZL?

Just spitballing because there's no way people are gonna have CRTs long term and the WiiU makes this perfectly playable on any virtually lagless HDTV.

 

[Warhawk]

The abrasiveness was all I had a problem with. It would be a legitimate argument to discuss simply why you thought the move change was a bad decision and what it might take away from Charizard. I think it kinda caused them to turn away from your actual argument which was part of what you were frustrated with.

 

[B.W.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just because the the WiiU plays without lag on HDTVs doesn't mean Brawl or P:M will be lagless on it.

The WiiU emulates a Wii, so wouldn't it mean that P:M would still lag on HDTVs?

 

[Kink-Link5]

The abrasiveness was all I had a problem with. It would be a legitimate argument to discuss simply why you thought the move change was a bad decision and what it might take away from Charizard. I think it kinda caused them to turn away from your actual argument which was part of what you were frustrated with.

I never meant to sound underappreciative, hence the $250 each to Dantarion and Magus and the $75 dollar donation for DaZe to support his stream. I'd love to be able to donate to Shanus and Internet Explorer as well; their coding work gets extremely underrepresented I feel.

And it isn't generosity damn it. I owed something back to the PMBR so I just payed what I owe. I can't get to any scene to play with people, so it's the least I could do to show my support and love for the project.

 

[smashbro29]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just because the the WiiU plays without lag on HDTVs doesn't mean Brawl or P:M will be lagless on it.

The WiiU emulates a Wii, so wouldn't it mean that P:M would still lag on HDTVs?

No, it upscaled it internally to match the resolution you set it too. It doesn't look much better just ridiculously sharp.

After my testing it's the system doing the upscaling, hence there is no lag. It's just like the 360, when a game says on the box it only runs in 720p but then your TV claims it's running at 1080p because the 360 is upscaling internally.

 

[SpiderMad]

half a thousand O_O

 

[Kink-Link5]

I figure they deserve it you know? They're the primary coders, and supporting Dantarion directly supports SmashMods including the cost of keeping a site up.


The $75 for DaZe is just because he's a cutey <3

 

[9Kplus1]

Even 9K, with fairly regular interaction with them, has no sway on the choices of our PMBR overlords.

That's because if DDD or Ivysaur isn't the topic of discussion, I'm trolling. Therefore, my ramblings aren't taken as seriously as someone with a more dignified reputation.

 

[Kink-Link5]

But that Dedede ledge game though.

I could chill with my arm grabbing a ledge for 8 minutes all day.

 

[Shadic]

The $75 for DaZe is just because he's a cutey <3

If only I were a Korean Pop Star...

 

[cannedbread]

ledgehop dair though

 

[Kink-Link5]

If only I were a Korean Pop Star...

I'm willing to send my support to any pmbr member that has a donation fund and does stuff that needs support.

I'm not quite sure what you or JCaesar or Jiang do though.

I can also pay for anyone to come out to Iowa and provide transit to scenes. I promise I won't eat very much and I will do my best to not be a burden! I've been offering this for a while but never got any takers, and I assure you I'm serious. I don't want to have to get on a bus for a full day just to go somewhere.

 

[Shadic]

I'm not quite sure what you or JCaesar or Jiang do though.

I've had the thought of adding a "PMBR Member" section of the website that would talk about what specific people do...

 

[cannedbread]

there's always this outdated thing

 

[DMG]

Just get on the bus Bunni, it's easier and would probably be cheaper than someone driving to you, then to the tournament or smashfest, then back, then to wherever they live.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Just get on the bus Bunni, it's easier and would probably be cheaper than someone driving to you, then to the tournament or smashfest, then back, then to wherever they live.

The cost is only a part of the issue. The 18 hour busride to make an otherwise 5 hour drive up to Eau Claire and getting there at 3 in the morning, then having to leave again super early to be able to make it back in time for school over the weekend is a much larger issue.

Plus the $81 greyhound fare is only one-way, so it goes up to $162 round trip. That's about the fare to fly into Chicago roundtrip in 2 hours :V

I've had the thought of adding a "PMBR Member" section of the website that would talk about what specific people do...

I'd love to see the day when this and the stages section are finally complete.