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Project M Social Thread

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`dazrin

`dazrin

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Thanks for your post, iLink. We really appreciate that you enjoy the developer corner updates and we respect this kind of well-constructed feedback. However, I did feel like it was necessary to respond to this part of your post.

iLink said:
I usually hear about a single person being in charged of a character, and that sounds rather alarming actually. More often then not, when a dev is asked about a character change on a stream, the response is shockingly almost always "I don't know about this character."
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We like to ideally have one or two people in charge of the lead design of a certain character, making changes and refining the character in question based on how playtesters and other developers in the BR give feedback. The person in charge is responsible for executive decisions on many things, like whether certain ideas should be passed, tested, or denied, among other things.

The reason for this is we don't like to have "too many chefs in the kitchen". Having too many people in charge leads to problems, disagreements, and an overall product that no one is satisfied with. The same kind of thing goes for the playtesters. Not all of the playtesters are involved with the design of every single character, simply either due to lack of interest with different characters, or a lack of knowledge playing with, or against a specific character in question. Not only that, but not all of us are 100% active in the PMBR as we all do this on our spare time, and there is a lot to read up on and catch up as there are changes being made everyday. We are not all one hive-mind. We are a group of individuals who all love smash. It's hard to keep track of every single detail and change that is added to each and every revision that is made to the developers build.

Not everyone will be involved with everything. It's nothing to be alarmed about. It's just the way things work.

Again, thanks for your interest in our inner-workings, but just because we all can't recall how x character was changed, doesn't mean that we aren't doing our part in playtesting and giving feedback in the backroom. Some of us are just more involved with certain characters than others :p
 
Comeback Kid

Comeback Kid

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9Kplus1 said:
Now Sonic is a character with quite a few already revealed changes, and he's had more than enough screen time to clearly make out how those changes will impact his 2.5 metagame. IMO, he would be a better candidate for a "significantly changed" character(s) spotlight.
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Sonic is obvious though. I'm thinking of some less talked about characters which may have changed enough to warrant an update. Ness and Lucario both also have the psychic theme (one of the only Fighting type to be able to learn psychic) which would make a good pair to spotlight.

Although I don't know exactly what criterion decides which characters get spotlights and which don't beyond a vague notion of considered changed enough.
 
iLink

iLink

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I can understand not having the man power to have more people work on a single character and the idea of having "too many chefs in the kitchen" and getting in each other's way.

But if you look at it the other way, its also dangerous to have too few viewpoints. If a single person is making most of the decisions, he could be tailoring the changes to his own viewpoint, when it might not be the most ideal viewpoint. Like in the example I gave, a dev changed something he thought would be for the better, but then someone pointed out that the direction he was heading towards was less then ideal.

The fact that such few devs are at terms with a lot of the character changes makes it seem like 1 person is just doing the changes, and everyone else is just ok with the changes without really extensively playtesting them to see if the change was even necessary, for better or worse.

Now obviously these aren't super common happenings. I actually agree with most of the changes being made for the most part. There are just a few choice decisions that leave me thinking that the person making the change wasn't fully aware of the consequence of said change and wasn't something that really needed to be changed, or could have been done differently.

Like I said, you guys have been doing a great job for the most part with how you handle the characters, it would just be nice knowing that more viewpoints are being looked at when changes are being made.
 
JCaesar

JCaesar

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The most controversial changes (Ike, Lucario, Sonic, etc) definitely get the most attention in the backroom and the most playtesting. Rest easy.
 
cmart

cmart

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As a followup, I'd also like to say that the streams you guys see of the backroom are the tip of the iceberg. We playtest a LOT with a lot of non-pmbr members. Specifically seeking out differing opinions and reactions from all sorts of players.
 
`dazrin

`dazrin

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iLink said:
But if you look at it the other way, its also dangerous to have too few viewpoints. If a single person is making most of the decisions, he could be tailoring the changes to his own viewpoint, when it might not be the most ideal viewpoint. Like in the example I gave, a dev changed something he thought would be for the better, but then someone pointed out that the direction he was heading towards was less then ideal.

The fact that such few devs are at terms with a lot of the character changes makes it seem like 1 person is just doing the changes, and everyone else is just ok with the changes without really extensively playtesting them to see if the change was even necessary, for better or worse.
Click to expand...
This is really not the case. We have countless people constantly giving write-ups and extensive feedback on how characters are being developed.

Like cmart said, we playtest with as many people as possible (including non-pmbr members) and funnel their feedback into the BR and take their opinions into considerations as well. We gather all sorts of information. It really is NOT just one person doing whatever he/she wants and seeing if everyone is okay with it. However, it is one person who gives order and a general sense of direction, as well as actually doing the code-work to implement certain changes.

Lol, relax. We know what we are doing. :p
 
Shadic

Shadic

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I'd just like to add that we have over 20,000 posts in the "Character" subforum in the PMBR.

We have a LOT of discussion behind the scenes, no need to worry that we don't consider the changes we make.

:phone:
 
Archangel

Archangel

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btw at some point I heard a rumor that they were going to announce 4 characters for demo 2.5 If that hasn't change then there are 2 more characters that have yet to be revealed.

If that is the case then the fact that we haven't seen either of them means they will both show up very soon...or they will show up later and the release for 2.5 won't be until like...April or May?

or I'm wrong and it'll be out in 2 weeks.
 
ZelDan

ZelDan

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I for one have enjoyed playing PM demo 2.1 and can't wait to see what will be in the next demo.

Hopefully atleast Samus and/or ZSS.
 
hotdogturtle

hotdogturtle

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Uh, is taunt -> Din's Fire a legit thing? I saw that 2 times in the half of the video that I watched, which is 2 more times than I would ever expect it it work.
 
iLink

iLink

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I can't help but feel like they purposefully DI'd into those din's fires, especially after those grabs considering the zelda wasn't even pummeling and they could have probably breaken free in that time span.

Not to say that there wasn't some cool stuff in that video, it was entertaining.

Am I the only one that mashes furiously as soon as they are grabbed? I'm always kind of surprised to see some people so mellow about it to the point that they don't even try to break out and I can pummel them for a good amount of time.

It might be because I played against IC for so long.
 
cannedbread

cannedbread

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zhime mostly plays on wifi

not to discredit, he's a great player

i could learn a lot from how to use dins from watching him

his sets at pms II were really cool
 
iLink

iLink

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I'm actually not trying to discredit that zelda player if my comment came off that way.
 
Yung Mei

Yung Mei

Where all da hot anime moms at
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so i tried out snake today for the first time

grounded b-reversed nades are amazing for techchasing
 
DrinkingFood

DrinkingFood

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...that just sounds really impractical. In order to have enough momentum to even see a noticable reverse in momentum, you'd have to pull a nade out of a run. Which you'd have to CC, then release down and tap B then reverse direction. Is that what you're doing? Or am I misunderstanding what you said?
 
Yung Mei

Yung Mei

Where all da hot anime moms at
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im probably confusing terms again ;_;

basically, for example, after a fThrow, i just dash at my opponent (assuming i predict correctly, and they dont do a get up attack)
i to a turnaround Nade, and grab, the grab can grab from behind (if spaced correctly anyways) and in front
 
DrinkingFood

DrinkingFood

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You're using the nade just to... turn around? There are like 2 ways to turn around and grab out of a run in P:M, it's not necessary to go to such lengths as reversing a grenade and shield grabbing. I think that's what you were saying you were doing, at least...
 
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