Project M Social Thread

[AMKalmar]

I dunno if we can make it work with B moves, or if we want to.

I just realized PKF cancels DJ in vbrawl ... so yes, you can do it. And you want to.

We aren't using a B- change on Ness. This isn't B-, and not every character needs a shine. Attacking out of PKT2 isn't going to change much either. Let's hear some creative responses, please. We aren't confined to elementary changes.

I think Teleport's pretty good idea:

I've always like the idea of having PK Teleport as a usable move since his intro looks so awesome, but PKT is so iconic of Ness. I think people would miss Ness' PSI Magnet less since it has never been that great.

I thought about this a long time ago, this is how I think teleport should be if it were to be implemented. In earthbound, you run in a long straight line to start Teleport α(alpha), and you run in tight circles for Teleport β(beta). We could call it Teleport γ(gamma), where he would spin on the spot with increasing angular velocity before teleporting. The sound effect would be similar to the high pitched chime that happens before you cast certain PSI attacks in Earthbound. Then he teleports using the graphics, SFX and part of the animation from his intro. Overall it would be similar to Zelda/Sheik's up specials and he would travel a distance somewhere in between the two.

Hey, we could replace PK Flash, it's not's like that's useful.

Maybe it could even be a charge move. Hold longer to spin faster and then teleport further.

 

[AMKalmar]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Onomanic]

I've always like the idea of having PK Teleport as a usable move since his intro looks so awesome, but PKT is so iconic of Ness. I think people would miss Ness' PSI Magnet less since it has never been that great.

I thought about this a long time ago, this is how I think teleport should be if it were to be implemented. In earthbound, you run in a long straight line to start Teleport α(alpha), and you run in tight circles for Teleport β(beta). We could call it Teleport γ(gamma), where he would spin on the spot with increasing angular velocity before teleporting. The sound effect would be similar to the high pitched chime that happens before you cast certain PSI attacks in Earthbound. Then he teleports using the graphics, SFX and part of the animation from his intro. Overall it would be similar to Zelda/Sheik's up specials and he would travel a distance somewhere in between the two.

Hey, we could replace PK Flash, it's not's like that's useful.

I dig the PK Teleport idea. All I can imagine is M2 (RIP </3). Having two recovery options would definitely help Ness, despite having to get rid of PSI Magnet. I guess my opinion is all or nothing?

I was watching a stream today and PK Flash got a major speed buff. Seemed almost as fast Din's Fire but not quite.

Got a K.O. too.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I think making ness' spotdodge make him disappear/teleport would be the best implimentation of teleport into the game.

As someone who plays ness, you cannot get rid of PK thunder, because unlike pkmagnet it had many uses and is a part of his playstlye. The magnet however really didn't do anything to his playstyle, except maybe to stall in the air. Its not like ness is capable of camping because of it.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Personally I think that PSI Magnet should probably be gotten rid of. Lucas at least has Magnet pull to work with, Ness' for the most part isn't that useful. If it isn't changed to do damage, I say scrap it.

 

[NeoZ]

I know this is off-topic, but blu link: you do realize that the scale in your signature is a G major, right?
F major has one flat pitch, not one sharp.
Maybe it's a joke and I don't get it, so could you please clarify?

 

[Xebenkeck]

There is no doubt Lucas' magnet is superior in every single way

it has:
A hitbox on drop
helps recovery
is disjointed from lucas
has a infinatly better b-reverse
heals more damage

Ness has:
a farts worth of wind

 

[Onomanic]

I know this is off-topic, but blu link: you do realize that the scale in your signature is a G major, right?
F major has one flat pitch, not one sharp.
Maybe it's a joke and I don't get it, so could you please clarify?

It is indeed a joke. I like G major but pronouncing "F major" in a spanish manner makes me chuckle.

 

[Ecks]

@AMKalmar

Ok so here's an idea I had about ness's recovery: why not just get rid of pkthunder completely? My idea is to give him teleport. He would star running in place, loosing a bit of hight while doing so (like aerial pkthunder or wolfs up b) and then he'll teleport (or just run really fast) to a direction like foxs or falcos up. You can even use his intro annimation for the ending before going into special fall.

So what do you guys think? good, bad, terrible idea?

I like my idea better because while it wouldn't actually "teleport" it would basically travel the same way as pkt2 but way faster. and I like the running in place over the aerial dashdance lol

btw Is it possible to make an attack work 100% different in the air?

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Yes it is possible.

I don't think they'll do it though.

 

[Ecks]

Yes it is possible.

I don't think they'll do it though.

Nah I wouldn't want them to. Just wondering.

 

[Onomanic]

I hope I'm not ninjaing the blog or anything, but is there any word on the tether recoveries connecting to the stage versus the edge? I imagine Olimar not being able to handle P:M very well due to his current recovery.

 

[Vigilante]

Well Toaster did say that Ness' Pk thunder traveled faster, but that Lucas took more time to fall. after the move. Maybe letting Ness take more time to fall after PK thunder could make it easier to recover with him. I'm thinking about positioning here.

About the magnet... I don't know what to do with it. Offense up was a good way to differentiate the two for Lucas., so giving him defense up might be a problem. I mean, what's it going to do? Give him a temporary Super armour? Unlike Offense up, I don't think that can be very useful. It doesn't help comboes either.

He doesn't have a lot of moves to pick from that would make sense. Maybe he could use his psy powers to get an extended grab?

Another possibility is a Psy-up. Make his next few B moves more potent? Like he could store charges (Shorter than Lucas' individually) and then use them. Like PK Fire would crease a large fire pillar, stunning more, causing more damage. PK Thunder would be large, damaging and provide better recovery. The Magnet would cause electric damage. The PK flash would have a larger explosive force. I can see problems with my suggestion, and I don,t think it should be implemented as I brought it here, but I'm throwing it in anyways.

Edit: Oh and PK flash could be "Charged" on Ness, allowing him to go "gtfo" on the enemy if he stands too close. Of course, it might be like a charged, weaker rest with a little more range. The punishment for a failed discharge would be being an easy target for a second or two.

 

[Samus-T]

havent checked this thread in about a month. anyone care to update me on anything new?

 

[Starscream]

havent checked this thread in about a month. anyone care to update me on anything new?

http://smashmods.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2279

DI FIXED MENG.

We gonna get another blog post today?

 

[kaizo13]

ok im sorry but i'm getting a bit frustrated with all these crazy Ness ideas (teleports, shines, etc.)

i played Ness in Melee and mained him all throughout Brawl+ so i'm very aware of his capabilities. No need for adding/removing any of his moves. all he ever needed was decent hitboxes. his hitboxes were awful in Melee and Brawl+ proved that with some tweaks he pretty much was ****** the whole cast at one point.

no his psi magnet does not need any offensive attributes. Just by simply being able to spotdodge/dodgeroll out of it would be more than enough

and about his recovery, he's always had a mediocre recovery. and there really isn't any way around it (B+ tried) unless you completely change how his recovery works, it's not gonna happen. I say just make him a beast on stage and let his recovery be his downside as it's always been.
besides, its not as bad as some of you make it out to be. It's not that hard to grab the ledge and who would be dumb enough to intercept your pkt2?

he doesn't need much guys, just step your game up Ness players

P.S and don't forget the optional DJC which does wonders

 

[NeoZ]

havent checked this thread in about a month. anyone care to update me on anything new?

They(Magus mostly?) figured how to fix DI.
This was posted on the blog and there's more stuff coming, so go check it out.

 

[jalued]

why cant his down B just stay the same, but be JCable. That was the main problem with it in melee, the horrendous endlag

 

[Vigilante]

why cant his down B just stay the same, but be JCable. That was the main problem with it in melee, the horrendous endlag

Because only ROB can be JCaesar-able.

Jokes aside, it wouldn't do much for Ness, but wouldn't hurt him either. est case scenario, he'll be able to heal then cancel quick, prolonging his life a bit.

 

[jalued]

Because only ROB can be JCaesar-able.

Jokes aside, it wouldn't do much for Ness, but wouldn't hurt him either. est case scenario, he'll be able to heal then cancel quick, prolonging his life a bit.

its main benefit would be that it makes matches against falco interesting

 

[Revven]

why cant his down B just stay the same, but be JCable. That was the main problem with it in melee, the horrendous endlag

This might be new to you but: Brawl's PSI Magnet is not as laggy as it is in Melee + there are windboxes for it when he releases it (they are however weak ofc). This already makes it safer, it doesn't need a JC nor will it ever get a JC due to the fact that it's a stupid idea and isn't something we want to do with Ness.

 

[Dark Sonic]

iirc it's also cancel able in vbrawl if and only if you absorb something with it.

 

[MonkUnit]

We gonna get another blog post today?

Probably not. These blog posts aren't daily things.

They(Magus mostly?)

If I were you, I would assume to do this. Unless we say otherwise, Magus did the fix/change.

 

[IYM!]

I believe that it is necessary to eliminate his help faling state when Ness does not impress his PK thunder with his body.

In other words, to eliminate the condition of help that Ness presents after throwing a PKT in the air. But keeping when he have succed impacting himself.

This would help much Ness.

It would have one more option in the air
It would not be so Gimpable
It would have more opportunities to be saved in stages by narrow falls (as foursede, betwenn the buildings)

 

[Scufo]

Oh ****, DI was fixed?

You guys ****ing rock.

 

[Makai]

We can make ness good without returning the YYG. He doesn't need the YYG. lol

"Gives the opponent an infinite hurtbox"
You do know that your hurtbox is active at all times....
Infinite hitbox on ness is just bringing back the YYG. He doesn't need the YYG.

Yeah, but the YYG is ****ing awesome. I'd rather Ness be exactly the same as Melee and have an enhanced YYG than have no YYG and buffs to standard attacks.

 

[Slashy]

Why don't we make the teleport his air dodge? That way you can't see where he goes.

 

[kaizo13]

see what i'm talking about?

 

[Pen_island]

give ness his reverse DJC boosting from 64. It'll help mix up his approachs, and maybe his recovery after doing a b reversal.

 

[Slashy]

After trying out Ness in a newer backroom build I can tell you that he already has an easier time recovering thanks to rising aerials, zap jumping, and more forgiving ledges. Ness was great in Brawl+ and just his Brawl+ buffs seem good enough to bring him out of low tier.

 

[crush]

After trying out Ness in a newer backroom build I can tell you that he already has a sucky time recovering thanks to his terribad up b. Ness was meh in Brawl+ and just his Brawl+ mehness seems bad enough to bring him out of low tier and into garbage tier

fixd

10char

 

[standardtoaster]

http://www.livestream.com/stprojectm

Streaming again, full roster of course.

 

[Juushichi]

Guys. I know a lot of people didn't like/play Brawl, but Kirby and Ness' moves save for a few (yoyo, I guess Kirby nair, maybe some others) got improved significantly from their Melee counterparts.

Along with Ness' grab range which someone else and I already mentioned, Kirby's has improved quite a bit too.

 

[Xebenkeck]

see what i'm talking about?

Kaizo no offence, but your not the only person who played Ness in melee. I have said that his upB doesn't need to be overhauled, just refined and i agree with you there, but his downB has never really served a purpose to his game, and if they are considering changing his DownB, there is nothing wrong with suggestions.

Slashy teleport for a airdodge wouldn't work for ness would have similar problems with WD, like Mew2. I suggest his spot-dodge because it would only be a aesthetic change, like zeldas sparkles on hers. And is a simple nod to one of his cannonical abilities in EB.

 

[Ulevo]

This might be new to you but: Brawl's PSI Magnet is not as laggy as it is in Melee + there are windboxes for it when he releases it (they are however weak ofc). This already makes it safer, it doesn't need a JC nor will it ever get a JC due to the fact that it's a stupid idea and isn't something we want to do with Ness.

All topic on Ness aside, just'd like to note that "it's a stupid idea and isn't something we want" doesn't really scream rationale. I know you guys have a good idea of what you're doing, but something like this doesn't really broadcast that fact. If I as a poster had any intentions of having my ideas heard and at least thought over, I'd feel there was a fair lack of consideration if the only response is "it's stupid, we're doing what we want."

Just saying. I don't care too much what you guys do because so far I have little reason for concern, I just think this might come back to bite you.

 

[Revven]

All topic on Ness aside, just'd like to note that "it's a stupid idea and isn't something we want" doesn't really scream rationale. I know you guys have a good idea of what you're doing, but something like this doesn't really broadcast that fact. If I as a poster had any intentions of having my ideas heard and at least thought over, I'd feel there was a fair lack of consideration if the only response is "it's stupid, we're doing what we want."

Just saying. I don't care too much what you guys do because so far I have little reason for concern, I just think this might come back to bite you.

We've tried it and it didn't work out is what I mean when I say "isn't something we want". Do note that I did say that about a few posts before that post.

 

[Slashy]

I like all the suggestions so far that don't involve getting rid of PSI Magnet or PK Thunder

 

[Xebenkeck]

Even if psi magnet is kept, it needs to be altered or else it will be the same useless healing move where the only projectile that you could absorb without being at risk of punishment was samus' charge shot. (in melee of course)

Srsly i dont think you guys know how bad it was, for the projectiles it could absorb were scarcly used, and the more prominate projectiles went through it like, turnips, needles, bombs, boomerangs, arrows, missles. The only projectiles ness could absorb that were widly used were pills, lasers and charge shot. And only absorbing charge shot was safe.

 

[Slashy]

I still wonder if it can be altered to absorb all projectiles.

 

[Onomanic]

I like all the suggestions so far that don't involve getting rid of PSI Magnet or PK Thunder

This.

10nessconservatisms

I believe that the fix to these moves is to reduce start up/end lag on PSI Magnet and increase distance and speed on PK thunder. And make PK2 techable. No need for scrapping, just tweaking.